Wild Dog Adventure Riding

General => General Bike Related Banter => Topic started by: Willehond on November 29, 2010, 09:48:30 pm

Title: KTM 990Adv vs BMW F800GS vs whatever
Post by: Willehond on November 29, 2010, 09:48:30 pm
Tha Dogs opinions - Tall order:

I am going to have to travel 900km every weekend ( 450 Fridays, 450 Sundays ). This is due to my job situation and could continue for years. No pillion, but luggage. The type of riding would include roughly equal amounts of: congested highway, highway and busy, twisty, potholed, (mountain) country roads full of big trucks, taxis, animals, pedestrians.

I am 1.65m, 76kg without riding kit.

I would like a bike, which can handle all the above, plus fulfill the role of a good DS bike. The distance involved and power required to overtake, precludes the use of a single IMO. I prefer light, powerful, maneuverable, with a reasonable level of comfort.

I have done a bit of homework and have read the threads on the 990/950 and the 800GS. Concerns: KTM - running costs of 990 ( services, parts, etc. ) BMW - Poor, non adjustable front fork / suspension on 800GS, fuel pumps, oil sweating, etc. etc. Does anyone know, whether the suspension has been sorted on the 2011 model?

NB. I prefer to only see the dealer for normal servicing, not troubleshooting. By that time, I am not interested in nice service, nor fancy coffee! ( I am miles away from dealers, so it is a serious inconvenience anyway )

Any info, advice would be welcome.

Title: Re: KTM 990Adv vs BMW F800GS vs whatever
Post by: Adventurer on November 29, 2010, 09:50:45 pm
990....no question, more expensive to run but more fun...
Title: Re: KTM 990Adv vs BMW F800GS vs whatever
Post by: Willehond on November 29, 2010, 09:55:42 pm
My heart is sort of set on the 990, but I would like to keep an open mind.
Title: Re: KTM 990Adv vs BMW F800GS vs whatever
Post by: GRUNT on November 29, 2010, 10:02:10 pm
The KTM just has so much more character!
Title: Re: KTM 990Adv vs BMW F800GS vs whatever
Post by: Footloose on November 29, 2010, 10:04:30 pm
If your hart is sort of set on the 990, buy it.
Title: Re: KTM 990Adv vs BMW F800GS vs whatever
Post by: Willehond on November 29, 2010, 10:20:16 pm
990....no question, more expensive to run but more fun...

Which KTM dealers would you guys recommend in Gauteng?
Title: Re: KTM 990Adv vs BMW F800GS vs whatever
Post by: funacide on November 30, 2010, 12:06:49 am
For the open road like that and to put so many km's on, I would suggest you also look at the 1200 GS. Better long distance tourer than the KTM IMHO.

The engine on the BMW 1200 can handle more KM's as well with less going wrong.

My 2 cents
Title: Re: KTM 990Adv vs BMW F800GS vs whatever
Post by: fly on November 30, 2010, 01:28:01 am
For the open road like that and to put so many km's on, I would suggest you also look at the 1200 GS. Better long distance tourer than the KTM IMHO.

The engine on the BMW 1200 can handle more KM's as well with less going wrong.

My 2 cents
+1
Title: Re: KTM 990Adv vs BMW F800GS vs whatever
Post by: letsgofishing on November 30, 2010, 07:22:34 am
There will never be a "correct" answer to your question. Ride the bikes that you're considering and go with the one that feels right!
Title: Re: KTM 990Adv vs BMW F800GS vs whatever
Post by: Battlestar on November 30, 2010, 07:27:39 am
For the open road like that and to put so many km's on, I would suggest you also look at the 1200 GS. Better long distance tourer than the KTM IMHO.

The engine on the BMW 1200 can handle more KM's as well with less going wrong.

My 2 cents
+1
+2 or as a second option the 800GS. Will be lighter on fuel and generally cheaper to run. Service intervalls alone are 3000km longer and you wont go through as many rear tyres  :mwink:
Title: Re: KTM 990Adv vs BMW F800GS vs whatever
Post by: popipants on November 30, 2010, 08:11:06 am
Ride the 990, 1200GS and the 800.
That will give you good idea of what kind of bike you like.

Keep in mind that it sounds like are gonna do a lot of km's. 1200GS's normally can do a lot more km without major problems.
Title: Re: KTM 990Adv vs BMW F800GS vs whatever
Post by: Willehond on November 30, 2010, 08:13:04 am
For the open road like that and to put so many km's on, I would suggest you also look at the 1200 GS. Better long distance tourer than the KTM IMHO.

The engine on the BMW 1200 can handle more KM's as well with less going wrong.

My 2 cents

I rode a 2006 1200 GS for a while. It would be a good choice, but is heavy in the DS role for a guy with my build.
Title: Re: KTM 990Adv vs BMW F800GS vs whatever
Post by: popipants on November 30, 2010, 08:20:44 am
For the open road like that and to put so many km's on, I would suggest you also look at the 1200 GS. Better long distance tourer than the KTM IMHO.

The engine on the BMW 1200 can handle more KM's as well with less going wrong.

My 2 cents

I rode a 2006 1200 GS for a while. It would be a good choice, but is heavy in the DS role for a guy with my build.

1200 and 990 weigh's about the same. The 800 is 15kg lighter.
Go ride a 800, people have complaint about the front suspension. Mine has 3000km on now, mostly offroad and dirt and I have not botton my suspension once.
The're no changes to the front suspension on the 2011 bike. But the leaky head and coolent problem seems to be the 2008 and 2009 models mostly.
And if you buy new you get a full warranty. Not to bash KTM but I think a BMW warranty is worth a little more.
And I'm 84kg



Title: Re: KTM 990Adv vs BMW F800GS vs whatever
Post by: Willehond on November 30, 2010, 08:23:46 am
+2 or as a second option the 800GS. Will be lighter on fuel and generally cheaper to run. Service intervalls alone are 3000km longer and you wont go through as many rear tyres  :mwink:

+1, but note my concerns with the 800GS in the original post
Title: Re: KTM 990Adv vs BMW F800GS vs whatever
Post by: Rolf on November 30, 2010, 08:26:41 am
Are you going to be buying new or 2nd hand?
Title: Re: KTM 990Adv vs BMW F800GS vs whatever
Post by: man on the moon on November 30, 2010, 08:27:08 am
You can always fit after market springs to a BM 800 for just over R2000 makes all the diference, not everyone sets up adjustable suspension correctly anyway. Have you consider the 1200 Yamaha
Title: Re: KTM 990Adv vs BMW F800GS vs whatever
Post by: MDT on November 30, 2010, 08:28:27 am
1200gsa. The thing i picked up is that my ktm at slow speeds feels heavier due to the fact that its so high. You arent that tall so may also be an issue for you. For those kind of miles i would have gone for the 1200gsa for service's etc. I love my ktm but there is a big differance in comfort. Go ride both on the same day and you will feel the differance and not talking about round the block try and go for 2/3 hour ride on both.

Hope that helps
Title: Re: KTM 990Adv vs BMW F800GS vs whatever
Post by: Willehond on November 30, 2010, 08:29:31 am
Are you going to be buying new or 2nd hand?

New
Title: Re: KTM 990Adv vs BMW F800GS vs whatever
Post by: Battlestar on November 30, 2010, 08:33:14 am
+2 or as a second option the 800GS. Will be lighter on fuel and generally cheaper to run. Service intervalls alone are 3000km longer and you wont go through as many rear tyres  :mwink:

+1, but note my concerns with the 800GS in the original post

Fit Hyper Pro springs. All my mates in Durbs have done this mod and apparently the issues they were having with the front end have all but gone  :-\
Title: Re: KTM 990Adv vs BMW F800GS vs whatever
Post by: Gee S on November 30, 2010, 08:34:51 am
The front suspension on the 800 is really not that bad. I have done 30000 + and have never bottomed out, not even when going to the Molopo, Bray etc loaded with 57 Kg's worth of luggage on the bike.
Title: Re: KTM 990Adv vs BMW F800GS vs whatever
Post by: Billbob on November 30, 2010, 08:35:53 am
For that kind of riding and klms no question. 1200GS. I only wiegh 73Kg and do long off road rides mostly, never had a problem. However, the KTM is really nice. :mwink:
Title: Re: KTM 990Adv vs BMW F800GS vs whatever
Post by: Willehond on November 30, 2010, 08:39:26 am
You can always fit after market springs to a BM 800 for just over R2000 makes all the diference, not everyone sets up adjustable suspension correctly anyway. Have you consider the 1200 Yamaha

I read posts by Wolweseun and it seems one has to do more than just the springs. If I remember correctly the total comes to about R7000.

The Yamaha is heavy for my build. I really enjoyed my Honda VFR800, but one thing I did not like was the side mounted radiators. In traffic the engine used to run hot. The S10 my also have this problem, especially in SA's heat.
Title: Re: KTM 990Adv vs BMW F800GS vs whatever
Post by: popipants on November 30, 2010, 08:41:20 am
The front suspension on the 800 is really not that bad. I have done 30000 + and have never bottomed out, not even when going to the Molopo, Bray etc loaded with 57 Kg's worth of luggage on the bike.

+1 So far I'm happy with mine.
Title: Re: KTM 990Adv vs BMW F800GS vs whatever
Post by: Snafu on November 30, 2010, 08:48:40 am
I still want to know what is so bad about the 800 front suspension, or is everyone trying to do enduro's with the bike?

I assume you will be working "away". You will be servicing the KTM every 2 months and the BMW's every 3 months. Do you have a dealer close to where you will be working?
Title: Re: KTM 990Adv vs BMW F800GS vs whatever
Post by: ETS on November 30, 2010, 08:49:25 am
The front suspension on the 800 is really not that bad. I have done 30000 + and have never bottomed out, not even when going to the Molopo, Bray etc loaded with 57 Kg's worth of luggage on the bike.

+1 So far I'm happy with mine.


I have both, 990 and 800.Just returned from a redroutre ride in Lesotho on my 990. Heavy on juice, but exhilarating. Personal preferences would make the choice. The BM is just a bit plain, but not everyone is a windgat raasgat like me.
Title: Re: KTM 990Adv vs BMW F800GS vs whatever
Post by: I&horse on November 30, 2010, 09:03:15 am
Buy with your heart.

Having said that, you can do a 450km trip on a GSA without stopping for fuel, if you are in a hooligan mood, you may have to stop twice with the Katoom O0
Title: Re: KTM 990Adv vs BMW F800GS vs whatever
Post by: Jakkals on November 30, 2010, 09:03:35 am
For that kind of riding and klms no question. 1200GS. I only wiegh 73Kg and do long off road rides mostly, never had a problem. However, the KTM is really nice. :mwink:
Or a Yamaha Super Tenere, shaft drive less maintanance for that km's.
Me thinks.
Title: Re: KTM 990Adv vs BMW F800GS vs whatever
Post by: Kamanya on November 30, 2010, 09:10:29 am
If you make a choice based on what is said here without getting your arse onto all options for at least something that represents the kind of riding you do, then you're a sheeple and deserve any bad feelings you may have later for your pony.
Title: Re: KTM 990Adv vs BMW F800GS vs whatever
Post by: BiganDaft on November 30, 2010, 09:13:11 am
Wait for a month and get the new Triumph Tiger XC 800. by all acounts it is a good good bike, I have my order in for a Orange one  :ricky:
Title: Re: KTM 990Adv vs BMW F800GS vs whatever
Post by: MaxThePanda on November 30, 2010, 09:21:17 am
Buy a used 1100/1150 for the mileage and distance-eating ability (cause it's going to mount up fast, and you'll be doing 5000km/month from the sounds of things - doesn't seem like 1-yr old 990's with 60,000km have much resale value) and then whatever floats your boat for having fun on the weekend in the countryside... XR/690/endure bike... etc.?
Title: Re: KTM 990Adv vs BMW F800GS vs whatever
Post by: Grrrr.... on November 30, 2010, 09:23:53 am
9/11 on

Does anybody know what a new F800GS goes for these days? To lazy to call BMW.....

9/11 off

Title: Re: KTM 990Adv vs BMW F800GS vs whatever
Post by: Crowley on November 30, 2010, 09:24:01 am
Those are reasonable questions and also difficult to answer as a lot that differentiates the two bikes is not stated.
The BMW cost less. It will however require that invest a lot of money to improve the suspension (The upgrade involves the valves as well and not only the spring) or alternatively you can get a drop-in replacement. You will also be bound to splash out money on other pieces of bling that you feel the bike require.
What is nice about the BMW is the dealer support network. In my experience BMW is head and shoulders above the other dealer support networks in SA as a whole. Individual dealers might be better in some brand/area but that is near impossible to determine upfront.
 The F800 GS is a brilliant commuter in my mind. For one person with luggage it can do a lot of distance with ease and very little maintenance. That being said if something do go wrong you are very reliant on the dealer to sort you out. If you have a look on the internet you will find a definitely lack of ďHow toĒ threads regarding the F800 GS.
If you ride at a moderate pace and donít try to get the maximum performance out of the 800 then this bike can work for you.

The KTM on the other hand is a more expensive bike and for good reason. There is very little required in additional bling Ė donít worry you will still need to spend some money to make it more into what you require.
What you have to keep in mind is that the KTM is a higher strung motor than the BMW and will therefore require more TLC.
The KTM in all fairness will give more when you start riding hard. You will also find a much larger knowledge base of how to do repair/service the bike on your own. Keep in mind that the services are more expensive than the BMW and a lot of the dealers will only do halve the service items because they think that some of the rest is not needed (donít ask me why  - think that the BMW does it as well they are just better at hiding it)
A small but very important point to me is also that the KTM crashes better in general than the BMW.

Donít know of anyone that has done a lot of kilos on a 990 yet but ask H2/hh his opinion on the 800, he has done more kilos than most and on fairly tough terrain. Last time I checked he was in the region of 80/90k. I think that his and the likes of his opinion would be worth more than most.
Title: Re: KTM 990Adv vs BMW F800GS vs whatever
Post by: thefrog on November 30, 2010, 09:32:19 am
I have an 800 which I commute on daily but it's not highway stuff and it's about 70km round trip urban. If I was doing longer trips at speed with a bit of dirt (non technical) then I'd look at a lightly used GS12 (not even a GSA) - it's much more comfy and will eat up the miles.
Title: Re: KTM 990Adv vs BMW F800GS vs whatever
Post by: Grrrr.... on November 30, 2010, 09:34:37 am
I have an 800 which I commute on daily but it's not highway stuff and it's about 70km round trip urban. If I was doing longer trips at speed with a bit of dirt (non technical) then I'd look at a lightly used GS12 (not even a GSA) - it's much more comfy and will eat up the miles.


Want to trade?  ;)
Title: Re: KTM 990Adv vs BMW F800GS vs whatever
Post by: Tabasco on November 30, 2010, 09:41:21 am
Change your avatar to ....

(http://i812.photobucket.com/albums/zz47/tabs990/KTM990.jpg)
Title: Re: KTM 990Adv vs BMW F800GS vs whatever
Post by: Battlestar on November 30, 2010, 09:42:25 am
9/11 on

Does anybody know what a new F800GS goes for these days? To lazy to call BMW.....

9/11 off


R105 STD
R111 ABS HEATED GRIPS
Title: Re: KTM 990Adv vs BMW F800GS vs whatever
Post by: Grrrr.... on November 30, 2010, 09:43:08 am
9/11 on

Does anybody know what a new F800GS goes for these days? To lazy to call BMW.....

9/11 off


R105 STD
R111 ABS HEATED GRIPS

Ok maar duur geraak....

How much is a TW200?
Title: Re: KTM 990Adv vs BMW F800GS vs whatever
Post by: bud500 on November 30, 2010, 09:51:20 am
You "could" do that commute on a B200 pharmacy bike with "some" modification to the suspension etc.. What's the point in that??
Buy the right tool for the job, with the least modification needed. To me that tool would be one of the GS12 options, no 2 ways about it.
I did 40 000km on my GS before owning my 990 on which I've done about 14 000km. Sure, the 990 is more fun, especially when it gets rough.

But for long distance commuting, different seasons and conditions you can't fault the GS. When you have to do a trip that will become mundane, and it sounds like it will, you want something that will make it as effortless as possible. With heated grips, height adjustable seat, shaft drive, good wind protection and long service intervals the GS is your answer. Add to that the light handling and tubeless tyres and the decision becomes an easy one...

PS: I fully agree with the statement that you need to go ride all the options properly though.
Title: Re: KTM 990Adv vs BMW F800GS vs whatever
Post by: ChrisL - DUSTRIDERS on November 30, 2010, 10:49:47 am
Ive never ridden a 1200GS but I think it would be the best for you(weight/lenght) and the job you want it for.
Pm Mother. He commutes between Gaberone and Joburg every week on his 1200.
Title: Re: KTM 990Adv vs BMW F800GS vs whatever
Post by: plonker on November 30, 2010, 11:16:07 am
For the open road like that and to put so many km's on, I would suggest you also look at the 1200 GS. Better long distance tourer than the KTM IMHO.

The engine on the BMW 1200 can handle more KM's as well with less going wrong.

My 2 cents

I also agree.
Title: Re: KTM 990Adv vs BMW F800GS vs whatever
Post by: Willehond on November 30, 2010, 11:33:33 am
I still want to know what is so bad about the 800 front suspension, or is everyone trying to do enduro's with the bike?

I assume you will be working "away". You will be servicing the KTM every 2 months and the BMW's every 3 months. Do you have a dealer close to where you will be working?

The route will be from work in Steelpoort / Burgersfort in ET to home in Carletonville. No dealer close to either location.
Title: Re: KTM 990Adv vs BMW F800GS vs whatever
Post by: Willehond on November 30, 2010, 11:46:23 am
You "could" do that commute on a B200 pharmacy bike with "some" modification to the suspension etc.. What's the point in that??
Buy the right tool for the job, with the least modification needed. To me that tool would be one of the GS12 options, no 2 ways about it.
I did 40 000km on my GS before owning my 990 on which I've done about 14 000km. Sure, the 990 is more fun, especially when it gets rough.

But for long distance commuting, different seasons and conditions you can't fault the GS. When you have to do a trip that will become mundane, and it sounds like it will, you want something that will make it as effortless as possible. With heated grips, height adjustable seat, shaft drive, good wind protection and long service intervals the GS is your answer. Add to that the light handling and tubeless tyres and the decision becomes an easy one...

PS: I fully agree with the statement that you need to go ride all the options properly though.


I also prefer, would go for the least mods required advice. I rode an '06 1200GS for a while. Insurance costs were very high.
Title: Re: KTM 990Adv vs BMW F800GS vs whatever
Post by: JacoM on November 30, 2010, 12:41:31 pm
Willehond, you say you rode a 1200GS for a while and found it too heavy for the offroad stuff. Did you know that the 990 is actually slightly heavier on the scale, and to top this, it feels a hell of a lot heavier due to the extra height? (Bulk of GS weight around your ankles, while the bulk of the weight on the 990 is closer to your knees!)

In my view, for the GS - much lower fuel consumtion, non-tiring ride, longer service intervals, low revving engine, which should see more kilo's + shaft drive, etc? (More reliable????

For the 990 - the emotional choice. (Punt) If you forfeit the above for pure riding pleasure - go for it!

Best still, go test ride. This is exactly what I am busy doing!
All the best
Title: Re: KTM 990Adv vs BMW F800GS vs whatever
Post by: ETS on November 30, 2010, 12:45:54 pm
Willehond, you say you rode a 1200GS for a while and found it too heavy for the offroad stuff. Did you know that the 990 is actually slightly heavier on the scale, and to top this, it feels a hell of a lot heavier due to the extra height? (Bulk of GS weight around your ankles, while the bulk of the weight on the 990 is closer to your knees!)In my view, for the GS - much lower fuel consumtion, non-tiring ride, longer service intervals, low revving engine, which should see more kilo's + shaft drive, etc? (More reliable????

For the 990 - the emotional choice. (Punt) If you forfeit the above for pure riding pleasure - go for it!

Best still, go test ride. This is exactly what I am busy doing!
All the best


You have evidently not ridden a 990 offroad and in difficult places???
Title: Re: KTM 990Adv vs BMW F800GS vs whatever
Post by: JacoM on November 30, 2010, 01:16:20 pm
Willehond, you say you rode a 1200GS for a while and found it too heavy for the offroad stuff. Did you know that the 990 is actually slightly heavier on the scale, and to top this, it feels a hell of a lot heavier due to the extra height? (Bulk of GS weight around your ankles, while the bulk of the weight on the 990 is closer to your knees!)In my view, for the GS - much lower fuel consumtion, non-tiring ride, longer service intervals, low revving engine, which should see more kilo's + shaft drive, etc? (More reliable????

For the 990 - the emotional choice. (Punt) If you forfeit the above for pure riding pleasure - go for it!

Best still, go test ride. This is exactly what I am busy doing!
All the best


You have evidently not ridden a 990 offroad and in difficult places???

ETS, I rode the 990R in deep sand and a rocky dry river crossing. Not sure if this fits any description of "difficult places" and did a back to back test vs. the 1200GS. The 990R felt heavier. Obviously, if you increase the speed then the weight dissapears  - this applies to both bikes though.
No doubt that the 990R was easier to handle in the "rough stuff"  - but,
it still felt heavier and Willehond made a comment re weight.
If commuting for years to come is the name of the game, I would go for the 1200GS. If offroad performance is preferred above "effortless" commuting, I would go for the 990R

Title: Re: KTM 990Adv vs BMW F800GS vs whatever
Post by: Adventurer on November 30, 2010, 01:59:10 pm
990....no question, more expensive to run but more fun...

Which KTM dealers would you guys recommend in Gauteng?

Factory Racing in Mulbarton....


On the other hand, have you considered/ridden the Yammie ST?
Title: Re: KTM 990Adv vs BMW F800GS vs whatever
Post by: Mark Hardy on November 30, 2010, 02:22:52 pm
here are some thoughts on the KTM (950). I have just short of 100 000Kms on the clock, I ride her everyday. At present I commute 200kms per day (1000Km/week) and then still ride weekends. Longest 1 day in the saddle blast was 1200kms, kept the speed at 160 and the motor just purred, and I could walk after the ride  ;D. Had the usual problems...fuel pump (replaced with facet), clutch slave cylinder (replaced with 990's cylinder)  mmmm that it. Oh I had the pistons and rings inspected about 2000kms ago... :thumleft: every good.

Is the 950/990 better than the 1200....all depends on what you want from a bike and your riding style. I do believe if I had bought a 1200 when I tested the bikes I would have sold it quickly and bought the 950. Just fits my riding style and what I want from a bike.

I do think the 1200, Yammie or BMW, are better tar and gravel touring machines, but when things get interesting or when you want to go play. Then the KTM offers more. Better suspension, ground clearance, balance, fun factor.

Just my un-bi-assed opinion  :biggrin:
Title: Re: KTM 990Adv vs BMW F800GS vs whatever
Post by: Buks on November 30, 2010, 03:44:26 pm
 :pot: if you want low cost reliable service for your situation, year after year, go for a TransAlp 700 !
Title: Re: KTM 990Adv vs BMW F800GS vs whatever
Post by: chicco on November 30, 2010, 04:21:51 pm
 :P
Title: Re: KTM 990Adv vs BMW F800GS vs whatever
Post by: Brakenjan on November 30, 2010, 04:25:04 pm
Wanted to post this:

Wow Willehond, you have achieved the unthinkable - three pages of unbiased, great advice from KTM and BMW riders alike.  :thumleft:

And then Chicco came along.....   >:(   ;)    :biggrin:
Title: Re: KTM 990Adv vs BMW F800GS vs whatever
Post by: Willehond on November 30, 2010, 05:26:06 pm
Wanted to post this:

Wow Willehond, you have achieved the unthinkable - three pages of unbiased, great advice from KTM and BMW riders alike.  :thumleft:

And then Chicco came along.....   >:(   ;)    :biggrin:

I'm actually very impressed with the unbiased opinions & great advice from all.
Title: Re: KTM 990Adv vs BMW F800GS vs whatever
Post by: popipants on November 30, 2010, 05:29:56 pm
Wanted to post this:

Wow Willehond, you have achieved the unthinkable - three pages of unbiased, great advice from KTM and BMW riders alike.  :thumleft:

And then Chicco came along.....   >:(   ;)    :biggrin:

I'm actually very impressed with the unbiased opinions & great advice from all.

Read the first page. That is where the sensible advice stopped!!
Title: Re: KTM 990Adv vs BMW F800GS vs whatever
Post by: Willehond on November 30, 2010, 06:23:40 pm
ETS, I rode the 990R in deep sand and a rocky dry river crossing. Not sure if this fits any description of "difficult places" and did a back to back test vs. the 1200GS. The 990R felt heavier. Obviously, if you increase the speed then the weight dissapears  - this applies to both bikes though.
No doubt that the 990R was easier to handle in the "rough stuff"  - but,
it still felt heavier and Willehond made a comment re weight.
If commuting for years to come is the name of the game, I would go for the 1200GS. If offroad performance is preferred above "effortless" commuting, I would go for the 990R



JacoM, because I am short I would have to go for the normal 990, not the R. There is a 55mm difference in height. I don't know if this would have made a difference in the riding which you describe here. Would it still feel heavier, with the centre of balance more than 2 inches lower?

Similarly, I would go for the 1200GS with the low seat, if I bought one.