Wild Dog Adventure Riding

General => General Bike Related Banter => Topic started by: JonW on March 29, 2011, 11:10:43 am

Title: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: JonW on March 29, 2011, 11:10:43 am
In light of the recent accident at the WC Bash and the comments made.....

Should it be mandatory that the organizers of any Bash be responsible for providing adequate/reasonable Medical and Emergency facilities at their Bash?

What level of facility would you say is reasonable?

Would you be prepared to pay for these facilities?

Why restrict medical facilities to just bashes, what about normal organized outrides into remote areas?

your thoughts..........   :dontknow:
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: Heimer on March 29, 2011, 11:19:50 am
I do think what can be done is to have a better roll-call in place.

Some people stay in camp, some do their own rides and some do the organised out-rides.

Even if you are accountable for your own well-being and safety, it is good if the organisers know what your plans are / will be on a given day, so you can perhaps be helped if you don't show after a certain time
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: edgy on March 29, 2011, 11:39:10 am
I think that a Wilddog bas h must be seen as a private ride, you go of your own accord and take your own chances. I like the fact that one can come and go as you please! Theres nothing wild about too much organization and rules! :biggrin:
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: ETS on March 29, 2011, 11:41:44 am
Jaaaa...leave the organisers out of it???
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: AntonW on March 29, 2011, 11:49:00 am
I think that a Wilddog bas h must be seen as a private ride, you go of your own accord and take your own chances. I like the fact that one can come and go as you please! Theres nothing wild about too much organization and rules! :biggrin:

I fully agree, where does the organisers responsibility start and stop, from the time you leave home or if you leave camp to go to the shops? You must be responsible for yourself, that is why riding with a mate or 2 is a good idea.
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: RobC on March 29, 2011, 11:50:51 am
I think that a Wilddog bas h must be seen as a private ride, you go of your own accord and take your own chances. I like the fact that one can come and go as you please! Theres nothing wild about too much organization and rules! :biggrin:
Tend to agree here... make sure you have ICE and a good medical plan.
Asking organizers to ensure medical casevac facilities is like asking the government to ensure that no natural disasters happen.
One should always prepare for emergencies yourself... that way you become a survivor, not a victim. :mwink:
BTW the average cost of just one ambulance with EMT staff can run up to 20 Grand, depending on the location etc of the event.
What an organizer could do is to let the local EMT/Hospitals know that a gathering is planned for x date/days so that they can be more prepared in case there is an incident. That way the EMT staff will be on readiness and not off on leave... that would help with response times.
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: JC on March 29, 2011, 11:54:47 am
If I wanted a babysitter I would have gone on a Harley ride  >:D

wilddogs isn't a bike club or a paid up organisation. I do not expect anything from anybody for my safety. Anything received is from a fellow wilddog, not from "wilddogs.za.net"

It is important to make that destinction

What is reasonable: a backup vehicle and sweeper for a bash

Would you be prepared to pay for these facilities:  No, then it will become overly regulated and all legal implications and people covering their arses not to be sued AND people telling you how to ride and being carefull, etc.
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: DSNewbie on March 29, 2011, 11:58:57 am
Is a bash not merely an organized party?

In this case with the option of doing an outride with like minded people, having fun, getting advice from more experienced riders, everyone within their own skill-set and on their own responsibility.

You can over-organize, which will add too much cost and risk for the organizers, which may result in less fun for the party goers.

Everyone should know the risks involved with riding a bike to remote places, if you do not want to accept the risk, stay at home and read the other people's ride reports.
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: bradleys on March 29, 2011, 11:59:56 am
All the bashes I go to I always have mymed kit with me ,I dont charge one cent ,I use my own supplies and pay for it,one this last bash I easily went through R100 worth of equipment,I do this for my fellow riders as i care for them.So just make sure I am at the next bash :thumleft:


Maybe I should charge next time 8)
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: Battlestar on March 29, 2011, 12:02:51 pm
I think that a Wilddog bas h must be seen as a private ride, you go of your own accord and take your own chances. I like the fact that one can come and go as you please! Theres nothing wild about too much organization and rules! :biggrin:

I fully agree, where does the organisers responsibility start and stop, from the time you leave home or if you leave camp to go to the shops? You must be responsible for yourself, that is why riding with a mate or 2 is a good idea.
100% Make sure you have a good personel Medical Aid/Casavac scheme
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: Battlestar on March 29, 2011, 12:04:10 pm
All the bashes I go to I always have mymed kit with me ,I dont charge one cent ,I use my own supplies and pay for it,one this last bash I easily went through R100 worth of equipment,I do this for my fellow riders as i care for them.So just make sure I am at the next bash :thumleft:


Maybe I should charge next time 8)
You are a machine sir :thumleft: :thumleft:
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: Lourens ツ on March 29, 2011, 12:08:45 pm
Maybe just as a rule any bash attendee must accept a standard disclaimer of any responsibility of safety/theft/etc. by organisers.  Where are our lawyers?

The disclaimer can then be posted in the first post of the organising thread.
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: Grrrr.... on March 29, 2011, 12:18:06 pm
Maybe just as a rule any bash attendee must accept a standard disclaimer of any responsibility of safety/theft/etc. by organisers.  Where are our lawyers?

The disclaimer can then be posted in the first post of the organising thread.

We all signed disclaimers on arrival. I agree that the organizers can only do so much.

This was my first bash and must say I was highly impressed with the work and effort that went into it. And unlike rallies it is more like a organized party.

It is the nature of the beast that when out 'adventure riding' that we will probably be in a isolated place. It is the risk we all have to take to enjoy those isolated places.

Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: EtienneXplore on March 29, 2011, 12:21:59 pm
All the bashes I go to I always have mymed kit with me ,I dont charge one cent ,I use my own supplies and pay for it,one this last bash I easily went through R100 worth of equipment,I do this for my fellow riders as i care for them.So just make sure I am at the next bash :thumleft:


Maybe I should charge next time 8)

Good on you bradleys  :thumleft: :thumleft:

For the Gauteng Bashes we can make use of our very own nurse, riding a 1200  :biggrin:

Maybe she will subcontract to assist with the EC and WC Bashes too  :3some:

Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: BOER! on March 29, 2011, 12:24:34 pm
All the bashes I go to I always have mymed kit with me ,I dont charge one cent ,I use my own supplies and pay for it,one this last bash I easily went through R100 worth of equipment,I do this for my fellow riders as i care for them.So just make sure I am at the next bash :thumleft:


Maybe I should charge next time 8)

Good on you bradleys  :thumleft: :thumleft:

For the Gauteng Bashes we can make use of our very own nurse, riding a 1200  :biggrin:

Maybe she will subcontract to assist with the EC and WC Bashes too  :3some:



Fnokkof Knopkop.  :biggrin:
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: ktmmer on March 29, 2011, 12:30:20 pm
Well done Bradleys!   :thumleft:
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: Briekmerk on March 29, 2011, 12:34:40 pm
All the bashes I go to I always have mymed kit with me ,I dont charge one cent ,I use my own supplies and pay for it,one this last bash I easily went through R100 worth of equipment,I do this for my fellow riders as i care for them.So just make sure I am at the next bash :thumleft:


Maybe I should charge next time 8)

Probably quite a few headache tablets. :peepwall:

 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: Dunce on March 29, 2011, 12:45:19 pm
Yip, we go to these bashes with the knowledge that you can fall and get hurt.
So make sure you are covered by yourself.
The costs to put a 24hr standby medical package in place is very high.
It also gets anal and regulated and that's allot of crap.
We ride for the freedom and take the risks.
I think it was well run and that the guys like Gavin that provided a great service out of their goodness of their hearts do an excellent job. Thanks Gavin, Pete, and all the others, like the back up bakkie drivers (Rusty) for collecting all the broken bikes too.
So the answer to the question from me is NO!
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: Kerritz on March 29, 2011, 12:46:39 pm
Knoppies.....ek weet nie of ek wil he daai Nurse moet op my werk nie  :o :pot:
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: Kamanya on March 29, 2011, 12:47:53 pm
I have my phone programmed with the info I or others need. I have a good medical coverage that will airlift or ambulate me out. I make sure I know who is a little up on medical on the ride or who has the medipac.

On long trips I carry a heavy painkiller injection, pain tabs, some good anti-inflammatory tabs, re-hydrate and water.

Other than that I really don't want it to be too organised. It gets complicated and expensive.

If shit happens, well then, I made my informed choices.



Having said that, having been involved in the adventure business a long time ago, I learnt some things. On a Bash there are some who are ignorant of the dangers - (noob pillions and noob riders) and for them some forewarning should be given.

I believe that there is a legal precedent called, "duty of care" or a delict. E.g. If I invited people to come join me on a paddle to a river of known high graded difficulty and they are obviously noobs with little or no experience or the right equipment and I know this and they come short, then I can be legally challenged under the duty of care. The law comes from the concept of good neighborliness.

Even though I charged nothing for the trip, I may find civil proceedings against me through them or their dependents.

From Wiki:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delict (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delict)

Quote
The South African Legal System also uses the law of delict as opposed to torts. The South African common law elaborates a set of general principles in terms of which liability for loss is allocated. This should be seen in contrast to the Anglo American common law approach which has distinct tort actions, each with their own peculiar elements which require satisfaction before an action is founded. The delictual elements that have to be satisfied before a claimant can be successful are:

Conduct - which may consist of either a commission (positive action) or an omission (the failure to take required action), though liability for an omission will arise only where there is a duty to act.

Wrongfulness - the conduct complained of must be legally reprehensible. This is usually assessed with reference to the legal convictions of the community.

Fault - save in limited cases where liability is 'strict' (i.e. where neither intention nor negligence is required for liability) once the wrongfulness of the conduct is established, it is necessary to establish whether the person being sued acted intentionally or negligently, either of which is sufficient for liability to attach.

Damage - finally the conduct must have resulted in some form of loss or harm to the claimant in order for them to have a claim. This damage can take the form of patrimonial loss (a reduction in a person's financial position, such as is the case where the claimant incurred medical expenses) or non-patrimonial damages (damages that cannot be related to a person's financial estate, but compensation for something like pain and suffering.)

Causation - the conduct that the claimant complains of must have caused damage, in this regard both factual causation and legal causation are assessed. The purpose of legal causation is to limit the scope of factual causation, if the consequence of the action is too remote to have been foreseen by an objective, reasonable person the defendant will escape liability.

It is possible that a single set of facts may give rise to both a contractual and a delictual claim.
Public policy considerations are evident in the setting of the limits to each of the requirements.

So on future bashes to avoid being seen as negligent or a bad neighbour so to speak, a fair, advertised, balanced warning of the dangers involved and appropriate ways to reduce ones exposure to should be enough.



Indemnities.... An interesting side point is that you can have people sign many and lengthy indemnities, but they will mean nothing if negligence can be proved. An indemnity does not indemnify the dependents against negligence on the part of the operator. At most, an indemnity is a informational about the dangers of participating.


Maybe the legal eagles can correct me?
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: BOER! on March 29, 2011, 12:49:14 pm
I have arranged bashes and trips.

I have at least a back up bakkie with bike trailer following, and basic medical aid kit.  But as to standby medical personel.

Nahh! 

The bakkie takes care of the emergency case of broken bones etc.  And broken bikes as well.  Ask Crop Sprang, Grantis, Rodger Dodger, Brink just from the Bosvark Bash.


Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: RobC on March 29, 2011, 12:55:19 pm
Indemnities.... An interesting side point is that you can have people sign many and lengthy indemnities, but they will mean nothing if negligence can be proved. An indemnity does not indemnify the dependents against negligence on the part of the operator. At most, an indemnity is a informational about the dangers of participating.
I believe you are quite correct here... another reason why I no longer officiate at MSA events, their liability insurance cover means squat if the proverbial paw paw had to hit a fan. Now I just spectate and shake my head in wonder.
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: Kenisis on March 29, 2011, 01:21:31 pm
I think the Buddy System is the best way to go.

If one cannot ride wit a buddy then he/she should notify some one at either end of departure time and ETA. that way every one can be covered.

Same sort of things that Skippers do.

And if the PAW PAW were to strike the proverbial fan then call Ghost Busters Netcare 911/ ER24 or if you are very unlucky 10111.
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: DSNewbie on March 29, 2011, 01:23:38 pm
For the Western Cape guys.
Taken from a 4x4 site, but a lot applies to DS riding in remote places.


Quote
In light of some recent events we have felt it essential to share the following information to inform 4x4ers how to react in the correct procedure when dealing with a medical emergency when out offroading. The time lapse between the injury and the time that the patient receives medical care is critical. Before we start I would like to thank Spike for this very informative piece of info.
Western Cape Offroad Emergency Procedures
PLEASE make note of the following number - 0219370300

Don't wait till your loved one is injured before thinking about your response. Write that number down! Put it in your phone. Make sure your offroading buddies have it as well.
This is the ONLY number to call when you have a medical emergency, for the entire Western Cape.

Don't be a rambo.
Don't try to move the patient.
Don't try a self rescue.
Don't phone your buddy who is in a rescue unit. That wastes time and he still has to phone Metro Control anyway. Your second call can be to your rescue buddy.
Don't panic and get irrational- that slows down the response.
If you are freaked out then get a calm person to do the phoning.

1. Phone 0219370300
2. First words out your mouth: Tell them you have an off road/wilderness/mountain emergency (this will speed up the response- they will immediately know they must respond differently)
3. Tell them the number of patients and the severity of the injury (eg. one male head injury- short and to the point)
4. Tell them your name
5. Tell them the number you are calling from
6. Answer any further questions about your location and the condition of the patient clearly and rationally. Have co-ordinates for your position if possible and tell them the format of the co-ordinates

Follow these guidelines and they can rapidly fly in a medic and possibly save a life.

Example of an emergency call:

Hello I need a mountain rescue. (he knows it's a Wilderness call)
I have one male with an open head injury. (he knows it's a "red" patient- life threatening)
My name is Piet Pompies (he knows you're genuine)
My number is 0812345678 (he knows he can get back to you if the call drops)
Then let them talk and ask questions (he will have already initiated a response and now he needs as much extra info as he can get)
Answer the questions without giving them a hard time.

They will also ask you questions such as where is the nearest road, is there a place for a helicopter to land, etc? If no landing spot they will short haul or winch so it's not a problem but they need all the info they can get
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: Chairman Meow on March 29, 2011, 01:40:33 pm
On the recent Great Karoo Gathering that I organized I did not make/or wanted to make even one cent on this event and the two major reasons were-
A. It was NEVER about the money..I have a job.
and
B. I felt that once you start charging and making some money of these kind of events you need to than be responsible for when the shit hits the fan and that was the last thing I wanted to be.

So to get back to the original question...............I think each his own-
A high risk pastime needs one take take high risk precautions and a shit load of commen sense.

If you own a bike one assume you have sufficient medical cover with rescue (ie helicopter lifts etc) benefits or alternatively you take the chances that comes with this territory.

just my 2c.
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: Snafu on March 29, 2011, 02:03:46 pm
First things first........................If not, dont point fingers!!!
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: Buff on March 29, 2011, 02:20:14 pm
And while we're on facilities, please ensure there a flush toilets for everyone, pissing in the bush is so barbaric... oh wait, we are barbarians at bashes  ;)  :pot:
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: Freak on March 29, 2011, 02:25:00 pm
Another reason i decided to give the bash outride a miss, was the fact that i wasnt comfortable riding in a possibly big group like that. Each must look out for him/herself. Access the dangers and ride/ participate accordingly. I give the wc bash a fat thumbs up. It was perfect. And accidents will happen.


Ps... The other reason i gave the outride a miss... Was mainly because i wasnt sober long enough to leave the yard last weekend...

The level of your bottie is directly proportional to the throttle lever position...
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: 2phat on March 29, 2011, 02:37:10 pm
My first Bash and my 2c:
I cannot see how organizers can be made responsible for providing emergency services. We were very lucky to have someone like Gavin there! If people will start insisting on that then no one will want to go through the onbaatsugtige  trouble of organizing a bash - I for one would not like be held in any way responsible for a noob like me breaking his neck because he rode where he should not have.
I was al geared up and ready to go on the outride on Saturday, but after speaking to some people who came in on bits of the route on Friday, and hearing how some of them battled, I contemplated whether to go or not as I was either going to hold up everyone or get hurt (I have only been on a DS bike for 6 months after 30 years of tar). Friday night I (or my ego) still thought I should man up and go, but when I woke up with only a few hours of sleep and a babbelaas on Sat I decided not to - I'm still young and there will be other opportunities.  :mwink: I also accepted that the risk was with me. I cannot ask of the organizers to take the risk or the flak or the inconvenience for my inexperience.
Like a few posters said - ride with buddies, make sure you have insurance and be very thankful that you are with a bunch of people who will go all out to help you if you get into trouble! :thumleft:
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: Nimmo on March 29, 2011, 02:40:29 pm
My 2c

Attending a BASH is a personal decision and it is your own responsibility.  
Where do the organizers draw the line on distances on out rides (to provide medical aid) during the bash 100km, 200km, 300km?  It would be in practical.

BUT

That said - it would be reassuring to know during a bash there is a medic present should something happen on out rides (without holding the organizers liable)

Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: Adventurer on March 29, 2011, 02:59:35 pm
Having no medical backup is always a risk, but one I'm prepared to take. How often have members here bitched about the costs of various official events of this type, i'e. Rally Raid, the old GS Challenge...etc etc, one of the contributing costs of these events is full medical backup, these various bashes organised by various forum members are CASUAL get-togethers, not many of them include pre-planned routes either, and even on a pre-planned route type Bash you are not obliged to follow the route, so how can anyone be expected to supply full medical coverage anyway?
It is an absolute bonus to have a fully qualified medic attending a Bash, but I'm sure this type of person is there for the Bash primarily, secondarily as a medic if he so chooses.
We all attend these Bashes knowing full well that medical backup is not officially supplied, we should also all have a reasonable medical aid to take care of any serious incident.
These Bashes were started in part to get away from the 'high-priced' events we so love to complain about, IMO we should keep them that way.
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: RobC on March 29, 2011, 03:01:42 pm
The way I see it all the organizer does is organize a location/venue, the rest is up to the attendees... keep it so. :thumleft:
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: Pleco on March 29, 2011, 03:04:43 pm
I do Health and Safety management as a job. (unfortunately  :eek7:)

The first things I teach, are:

1. If you find yourself in a situation where your safety depends on the actions / reactions of other people, you are in the wrong situation. (think of riding through a green intersection without looking first. Is your safety under your control, or the idiot that is going to run the red light?)

2. You must watch that your buddy does not get into those situations. (If you see your buddy pushing the limits, stop and tell him to take a breather)

3. Shit happens. Plan for the worst, hope for the best. (ICE on you, and route plan left at home / organizers etc is essential)

In other words, take care of your own safety and watch your buddy's back. And then if all else fails follow a plan.
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: Billbob on March 29, 2011, 03:32:14 pm
This seems to have developed into a two part question, soooo -
1) Bashes / organised??? trips
The venue or route is arranged. For the rest you do your own thing and take responsibility for yourself.
2) The legal nonsense. If you organise anything there is a legal responsibility. This is one of the reasons I mostly ride on my own and should I join someone else's ride it is on the understanding that I am responsible for my own kak.
Having been involved with organising numerous off road races, 4x4 jamboree's and challenges etc, I know one of the major costs are arranging for medical cover / facilities.
For what it's worth my vote would be to leave it alone. :ricky:
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: Buff on March 29, 2011, 03:42:09 pm
2. You must watch that your buddy does not get into those situations. (If you see your buddy pushing the limits, stop and tell him to take a breather)

Oh cr@p, we're going to have to put Stoetie & George in straight jackets next year !!!  :o  :D
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: Kamanya on March 29, 2011, 04:52:28 pm
Come on, while we're being all safety conscious, let's have something like this at the next one...

http://www.youtube.com/v/_NbDVYHQF6k?fs=1&hl=en_US
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: KAROODONKIE on March 29, 2011, 06:32:23 pm
I sure  did stirr things up  - and maybe it`s a good thing to get people talking about this specific topic of medical care and responsibilities.

The comment I made was to not step on anybody`s toes.
I just felt that since we were in a remote area with no cell signal and at an organised Bash, that when you ask for a phone to contact an ambulance - there will be numbers of the hospital / doctor to call. And you not get that sheepish-eye look .....
It could not have taken the organisers of the event 5 minutes to find out where the closest hospital is and who`s the doctor on call and put their numbers to the phone.
I did not acspect an ambulance to be on site, or following us on the ride!!!
We all know the risk of adventure riding!
It`s just you can not organise an event, someone is making money, bringing together 100 bikes, greating a bigger than usual risk, in a very remote area ...... and then say "I don`t know how to get you to a hospital" if someone gets injured.

As to Bradleys: With you by my side - I`ll fall any day ...!!!
Thanks for everything you did, you where spot-on with everything.
You`re a GREAT OKE  :thumleft:

As for the rest of the WC Bash - It could not have been better!!!!!!!!
 ;D  :biggrin:  ;D

This is my 2c - for what its worth ....
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: Pistonpete on March 29, 2011, 06:58:47 pm
 :imaposer: :imaposer: :imaposer:
If there is any bucks over...i will know on Friday...then it gets pumped back into the Recce Riders to venture forth to find new tracks. Hell...i might even break even on the bucks i had to upfront!
So as for someone making money... :laughing4: :laughing4: :laughing4:
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: Chairman Meow on March 29, 2011, 07:56:35 pm
Nice one.....exactly what these rouge gatherings should be about.  :thumleft:
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: LeonDude on March 29, 2011, 08:26:13 pm
Man, if I had to place responsibility for everything that has happened to me on outrides, bash or other, on the organizers, I would have zero friends left.
That last incident when JohnST stuck a green mankini in my eye and I almost went blind would have seen me a rich man.
Although I would sign an indemnity form if Kilroy or the other mods required it, I don’t think it is necessary. If I go to any camping place I accept that my safety is my responsibility. I don’t like to have a nanny look after me. Especially not that nursy type on page one. Al het sy sulke oulike Boer(!)e kuite.
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: Rynet on March 29, 2011, 08:59:58 pm
No offence to anyone who was involved in organising the Bash but I think Karoodonkie has a very valid point.  I was supposed to leave Cape Town on Friday afternoon to come to the Bash,  but when my friend's condition worsened I got distracted and it got late, and I then decided to not leave Cape Town by myself at 18h30 .

This was a good decision BUT I was worried that my friends at the Bash would be worried about me and go and look for me.  I could not reach anyone at the Bash , including the owners , due to there being no reception.  I made over 10 telephone calls to neigbouring farms including the Tankwa National Park phones ,but there was no way of contacting anyone at the Bash. Fortunately my friends figured I would not ride in the dark. But it would have been a lot easier if I had a contact number , if one person at the Bash could have had a sat phone esp if I had ridden through and needed help in the middle of nowhere. In my case I have no moan (@ Freak :deal: ;)) but in Charl's case the situation was a lot more serious so I use my case merely to illustrate Karoodonkie's point .

Secondly no offence to anyone at the Bash but for a future Bash it would be a good idea to
find out before the time and put this on the main thread , which are the closest hospital to the Bash , the telephone numbers and the exact procedure to follow to get a seriously injured person to the nearest hospital in the quickest amount of time without stressing out the wives back in Cape Town .

I think Karoodonkie was a tad reactive when he made his point on the Charl thread, but essentially I agree with his points .

Having said that , I cannot compliment Piston Pete, Bradleys and the other back up drivers enough for everything that they did do at the Bash . I just think we can learn from Karoodonkie's very valid points.

Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: Freak on March 29, 2011, 09:07:11 pm
Oi!!!?? Wat het ek gedoen om ge mention te word?? ???

Firstly, i have looked into it... Sat phones are moer expensive if only used now and then. Secondly, what i looked forward to most was the remote-ness of the ride. I hate seeing and hewring cellies all weekend...

This was back to basics weekend ( for me anyway )

I know this may surprise you liewe rynet... But i disagree...

In future, those that want cell, hotel, meds, doc, mommy etc... Go to the buff. Sure its a lot safer.

THIS BASH WAS PERFECT PERFECT. AND I HOPE IT DIDNT PUT PP OFF FOR FUTURE EVENTS...IF SO ....PP... YOU CAN PM ME AND ILL JOIN YOU!

....

( just make sure theres the same amount of ice and tonic! )

Rynet...ek gannie weer jou tent erect nie.... :peepwall: 

Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: Heimer on March 29, 2011, 10:12:48 pm
Oi!!!?? Wat het ek gedoen om ge mention te word?? ???

Firstly, i have looked into it... Sat phones are moer expensive if only used now and then. Secondly, what i looked forward to most was the remote-ness of the ride. I hate seeing and hewring cellies all weekend...

This was back to basics weekend ( for me anyway )

I know this may surprise you liewe rynet... But i disagree...

In future, those that want cell, hotel, meds, doc, mommy etc... Go to the buff. Sure its a lot safer.

THIS BASH WAS PERFECT PERFECT. AND I HOPE IT DIDNT PUT PP OFF FOR FUTURE EVENTS...IF SO ....PP... YOU CAN PM ME AND ILL JOIN YOU!

....

( just make sure theres the same amount of ice and tonic! )

Rynet...ek gannie weer jou tent erect nie.... :peepwall: 



Hmm, praat van sexist. Jy help haar en dan loop sy sommer weg om te gaan syp.

-----------------
To repeat the basics. Although it is a get-together, each person is responsible for making the same prep he will make on a privately organised trip.
We are all grown up and should know how accountability works.


Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: Freak on March 29, 2011, 10:19:42 pm
Oi!!!?? Wat het ek gedoen om ge mention te word?? ???

Firstly, i have looked into it... Sat phones are moer expensive if only used now and then. Secondly, what i looked forward to most was the remote-ness of the ride. I hate seeing and hewring cellies all weekend...

This was back to basics weekend ( for me anyway )

I know this may surprise you liewe rynet... But i disagree...

In future, those that want cell, hotel, meds, doc, mommy etc... Go to the buff. Sure its a lot safer.

THIS BASH WAS PERFECT PERFECT. AND I HOPE IT DIDNT PUT PP OFF FOR FUTURE EVENTS...IF SO ....PP... YOU CAN PM ME AND ILL JOIN YOU!

....

( just make sure theres the same amount of ice and tonic! )

Rynet...ek gannie weer jou tent erect nie.... :peepwall: 



Hmm, praat van sexist. Jy help haar en dan loop sy sommer weg om te gaan syp.

-----------------
To repeat the basics. Although it is a get-together, each person is responsible for making the same prep he will make on a privately organised trip.
We are all grown up and should know how accountability works.






911 on------

Erger! Syt gewaai om ( hopenlik) n prys te gaan wen in die suiptent... En toe staan sy sommer op om my mooi onjanja hempie ook te vat! Cheek! Ek het dit gewen afterall!  :peepwall:
Ons gan jou naam veraner na skelnet.  :imaposer:
 
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: Rynet on March 29, 2011, 10:24:13 pm
 :laughing4: :laughing4: :laughing4:
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: Vonkie on March 29, 2011, 10:58:20 pm
My beurt om te  :pot:.
Ek lees bietjie die thread en wonder hoe n paar manne sou gevoel het as dit hulle was wat vir 4 ure gele en wag het vir hulp.

1.Tyd is kosbaar en daarom is ieman soos Bradley brood nodig op sulke afgelee outrides.
2. Ek glo elke een het sy eie medies en dra onkosted wat uit die ongeluk vloei. Die idee is net om die pasient te stabiliseer voor hy verder gaan.
3.Die idee is nie om n ambulans met met helikopter daar te he nie dit is belaglik....... maar jy wil tog net die ambulanse en hospitale laat weet wat aangaan sodat iemand aan diens is.
4.Iemand soos Bradley op die dag klink vir my oor goed genoeg en dit klink of hy n wilddog medalje moet kry vir al sy bystand. Goeie werk Bradley :thumleft:!!.
5.. Met so omtrent 120 betalende mense by die "get together" en so wat R50 per man, wat ek ook sou extra betaal, reken ek het jy genoeg om ten minste iemand wat 1. Nugter en 2. bekwaamd is daar te he vir n vinnige en akkurate evuluasie. Geen mediese fonds gaan sommer net n helikopter stuur as iemand bekwaamd op die grond nie vir hulle verduidelik dat dit regtig nodig is nie.
6. Die R50 kan dalk JOU lewe red volgende keer.

Ek weet dit is n hoe risiko stokperdjie en "elke man vir homself" soos meeste hier redeneer maar in realiteit is geen lewe hierdie swak redenasies werd nie!!!!.
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: Trippple XC on March 30, 2011, 05:51:54 am
Oi!!!?? Wat het ek gedoen om ge mention te word?? ???

Firstly, i have looked into it... Sat phones are moer expensive if only used now and then. Secondly, what i looked forward to most was the remote-ness of the ride. I hate seeing and hewring cellies all weekend...

This was back to basics weekend ( for me anyway )

I know this may surprise you liewe rynet... But i disagree...

In future, those that want cell, hotel, meds, doc, mommy etc... Go to the buff. Sure its a lot safer.

THIS BASH WAS PERFECT PERFECT. AND I HOPE IT DIDNT PUT PP OFF FOR FUTURE EVENTS...IF SO ....PP... YOU CAN PM ME AND ILL JOIN YOU!

....

( just make sure theres the same amount of ice and tonic! )

Rynet...ek gannie weer jou tent erect nie.... :peepwall: 



Hmm, praat van sexist. Jy help haar en dan loop sy sommer weg om te gaan syp.

-----------------
To repeat the basics. Although it is a get-together, each person is responsible for making the same prep he will make on a privately organised trip.
We are all grown up and should know how accountability works.






911 on------

Erger! Syt gewaai om ( hopenlik) n prys te gaan wen in die suiptent... En toe staan sy sommer op om my mooi onjanja hempie ook te vat! Cheek! Ek het dit gewen afterall!  :peepwall:
Ons gan jou naam veraner na skelnet.  :imaposer:
 
Rynet i dont think you should allow a personal crisis weekend  to cloud your judgement.Think a bit about how responsible it is to leave late for a planned outride without the back up and opposite direction to the planned event.Is this not a far greater risk than not having a medical back up on site.

The nearly ten phone calls was a bit over the top,you nearly came close to having the green people alerted to stop the "bikers" from destroying nature.

Last years WC Bash did not take place and the biggest complaint was cost,PP had allowed for full medical back up and in a earlier post a cost of around the  4-5K is mentioned i think you will find this is only to have them on site what about accomadation,food and so on.

Freak i must agree with you ,the no cell coverage was the biggest plus factor and was a known factor up front.

HEIMERS ANSWER IS SPOT ON WE ARE ADULTS AND IT IS OUR CHOICE AND WE ARE ACCOUNTABLE.

My two ronds worth :biggrin:
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: whitefish on March 30, 2011, 07:37:24 am
Daar was ongelukkig nie sein nie maar elke sport het sy beserings (fok daar se ek alweer sport :lamer:) Die medic op die site het alles reg gedoen en ek het by hom gestaan toe hy vir die ambulans personeel verduidelik wat hy als gedoen het hulle gevra het om net weer alles te double check. Ek sou veilig in sy hande voel. Dit was elke ridder se keuse om Saterdag te gaan ry of nie. Ek, en ek praat nou van myself, sou die ou sommer daar en dan met die bakkie reguit hospitaal toe geneem het of die ambulans halfpad gekry het of iets want daar is n klomp kosbare tyd verlore met die gewag vir die ambulans en die pad se verduideliking Stonehenge toe. Maar Charl is n tawwe ou lyk dit vir my so alles gaan fine wees en die mense kan nou ophou om in hulle broeke te mis! Mens moet wel seker maak dat daar altyd n ou is soos Bradley wat die nodige mediese agtergrond het en ek voel mens kan so n ou n klein ietsie gee net om dankie te se of ten minste net weer sy mediese tas/sak weer refill. Hoop om almal by die volgende bash te sien, Cheers :thumleft:
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: Ama ride ride on March 30, 2011, 08:00:56 am
I can just shake my head.....

This tread is clearly an attempt to shift some blame to the organisers and can lead to other crap. There are more and more members joining the forum and bashes etc and it need only one arsehole who cant take responsibility for his/hers own safety to fark up everything.

Kamanya explained the legal responsibilities. So go figure. Its just a matter of time before an arsehole sues or whatever.

Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: Rynet on March 30, 2011, 08:01:52 am
KLR why oh why do people like you and Freak so often choose to misunderstand me.  Please read my post again in a calm mind and you will see I did not mean what your angry mind think I meant . I in no way am the least bit upset about what happened to me.  I do not blame Piston Pete for my phoning around ,  no farmer or national park person was upset at me phoning them at 18h30 as it was still early .  Many of my calls ended up being dead ends and there was no way of contacting the Bash . My friends DID worry, but nothing I then could do about it so it was such a tiny issue to me that I immediately forgot about it . I also do not blame Piston Pete for not having alerted the hospitals . And I think Bradleys did a fantastic job. I don't even think a trained medic on sight could have done any better. I am merely saying that
the next Bash the nearest hospital should be alerted to the fact of the bash and where it is so that they could be ready for a possible accident , and there should be one phone in working condition at the farm both for a medical condition at home, to alert a bash goer of a possible accident at home OR to at least phone the nearest hospital when there is an accident at the Bash and this number should be on the Bash thread . But if not then the organisers should ask warn bash goers that they do not know the number of the nearest hospital and every one should find this out himself, although then all 120 people could be phoning the nearest hospital .!


PS you really cannot say that I was too blame for being late  My friend in hospital's condition worsened after my friends had left Cape Town , I wnet to hospital again at 2h30 on Sat am ,and he did in fact die at hospital at 4h30 on Saturday morning ,and then I did come through to the Bash. I merely wanted to let my friends know that I was not coming through on Friday night as planned . SO how many times must I repeat this I AM NOT UPSET in the least . I am also not an overly emotional person. I am trained to be neutral. I am not upset about how Charl was treated . He got sterling treatment from Bradleys as much as he could have done or anyone could have done at the scene. In fact I personally happen to think the world of Bradleys . If I had an accident I cannot think of anyone more competent that I would like to have with me . Nothing any medic at the scene could have done more at the scene without having a ambulance with him and that is too expensive and unceccesary to have . BUT if there was an immediate contact with the hospital this would have made things much smoother for everyone concerned with Charl ( I don't even know him ) So while I do not agree with the way Karoodonkie blamed the organisers , I DO understand his anger , and am saying we can learn from his valid points for FUTURE bashes .

Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: JonW on March 30, 2011, 08:16:27 am
I can just shake my head.....

This tread is clearly an attempt to shift some blame to the organisers and can lead to other crap.



Errr no  :o

This thread was started to firstly shift the mud-slinging away from the thread wishing Charl well in his recovery from his accident, and secondly to debate the issues around whether it is either desireable or cost effective to have medical back-up at bashes.  :deal:
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: JC on March 30, 2011, 08:21:27 am
@rynet: as jou buddies rerig bekommerd was kon hulle die 1km tot bo op die bult gery het en hul MTN fone gebruik het om te bel en hoor waar jy is.

wat verhoed enigeen van ons om 'n foon op te tel of te google waar die naaste hospitaal is?

Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: Malibu on March 30, 2011, 08:23:30 am
Change is one of the greatest certainties there is.  ;)  

As this forum is growing at an amazing rate, and the number of new riders joining the ranks increase, the original values from the early days will slowly crumble under the onslaught... back then, being hard-core, tough, un-breakable, etc were qualities held in high regard, but now it seems that things are changing.  Not that there is a problem with that, but I miss a lot of the 'original' riders, they are now very scarce here.  

We sit now with a situation where we have to find the new line of acceptability in planning for events and gatherings.  This could back-lash on the forum, as costs could increase (knocking some riders out) or the event organisers could feel that the effort required is beyond thier availalbe time/desire.  

I feel that in essense, we are "Adventure Riders"... and we should cover ourselves as far as possible.  If you have interesting info pertaining to a location/event, put it up or forward to the organisers.  Guys, get pro-active yourselves if you think it's important, not dump more work/effort onto organisers.  

Maybe we can find a middle ground...

My 2c
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: Ama ride ride on March 30, 2011, 08:29:35 am
the original values from the early days will slowly crumble under the onslaught... back then, being hard-core, tough, un-breakable, etc were qualities held in high regard, but now it seems that things are changing.  Not that there is a problem with that, but I miss a lot of the 'original' riders, they are now very scarce here.  

Very well said Mal.  :thumleft:

Everybody take note.

Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: RobC on March 30, 2011, 08:46:51 am
I can just shake my head.....

This tread is clearly an attempt to shift some blame to the organisers and can lead to other crap. There are more and more members joining the forum and bashes etc and it need only one arsehole who cant take responsibility for his/hers own safety to fark up everything.

Kamanya explained the legal responsibilities. So go figure. Its just a matter of time before an arsehole sues or whatever.


Spot on with this observation!
The next remote bash must have that fact posted in line one in bold red... ::)
Like some folks in the USA blame the president for Katrina but I say why the hell live in a house below sea level when a cataclysmic hurricane is on it's way? Get the hell out of Dodge I say! :xxbah:
Point is that WD bashes are just a get together location people... the rest is up to you!  :deal:
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: ETS on March 30, 2011, 08:50:21 am
I can just shake my head.....

This tread is clearly an attempt to shift some blame to the organisers and can lead to other crap. There are more and more members joining the forum and bashes etc and it need only one arsehole who cant take responsibility for his/hers own safety to fark up everything.

Kamanya explained the legal responsibilities. So go figure. Its just a matter of time before an arsehole sues or whatever.


Spot on with this observation!
The next remote bash must have that fact posted in line one in bold red... ::)
Like some folks in the USA blame the president for Katrina but I say why the hell live in a house below sea level when a cataclysmic hurricane is on it's way? Get the hell out of Dodge I say! :xxbah:
Point is that WD bashes are just a get together location people... the rest is up to you!  :deal:

+1
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: cocky on March 30, 2011, 08:54:31 am
Oi!!!?? Wat het ek gedoen om ge mention te word?? ???

Firstly, i have looked into it... Sat phones are moer expensive if only used now and then. Secondly, what i looked forward to most was the remote-ness of the ride. I hate seeing and hewring cellies all weekend...

This was back to basics weekend ( for me anyway )

I know this may surprise you liewe rynet... But i disagree...

In future, those that want cell, hotel, meds, doc, mommy etc... Go to the buff. Sure its a lot safer.

THIS BASH WAS PERFECT PERFECT. AND I HOPE IT DIDNT PUT PP OFF FOR FUTURE EVENTS...IF SO ....PP... YOU CAN PM ME AND ILL JOIN YOU!

....

( just make sure theres the same amount of ice and tonic! )

Rynet...ek gannie weer jou tent erect nie.... :peepwall: 


Agreed 100% :thumleft:
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: whitefish on March 30, 2011, 08:56:12 am
I can just shake my head.....

This tread is clearly an attempt to shift some blame to the organisers and can lead to other crap. There are more and more members joining the forum and bashes etc and it need only one arsehole who cant take responsibility for his/hers own safety to fark up everything.

Kamanya explained the legal responsibilities. So go figure. Its just a matter of time before an arsehole sues or whatever.


Spot on with this observation!
The next remote bash must have that fact posted in line one in bold red... ::)
Like some folks in the USA blame the president for Katrina but I say why the hell live in a house below sea level when a cataclysmic hurricane is on it's way? Get the hell out of Dodge I say! :xxbah:
Point is that WD bashes are just a get together location people... the rest is up to you!  :deal:

+1
+100
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: edgy on March 30, 2011, 09:04:48 am
We sit now with a situation where we have to find the new line of acceptability in planning for events and gatherings.  This could back-lash on the forum, as costs could increase (knocking some riders out) or the event organisers could feel that the effort required is beyond thier availalbe time/desire. 

I feel that in essense, we are "Adventure Riders"... and we should cover ourselves as far as possible.  If you have interesting info pertaining to a location/event, put it up or forward to the organisers.  Guys, get pro-active yourselves if you think it's important, not dump more work/effort onto organisers.

Well put Mal! :thumleft:
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: cocky on March 30, 2011, 09:10:08 am
If I may toss my 5c worth in here!
Our Wild Dog bashes have become a lot more than a "party" and as such need a better approach to the way they are planned. I think the time has come that our esteemed leaders draw up a "hand book" on bash planning and make it a uniform affair. Not Bike SA style, but more a way it is planned and executed. 
I think if we are to attract more newbies to these events, which is a lot more than getting pissed in the bush, but is aimed at the one thing that unites us all, RIDING BIKES and enjoying our country.
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: RobC on March 30, 2011, 09:12:46 am
Change is one of the greatest certainties there is.  ;)  

As this forum is growing at an amazing rate, and the number of new riders joining the ranks increase, the original values from the early days will slowly crumble under the onslaught... back then, being hard-core, tough, un-breakable, etc were qualities held in high regard, but now it seems that things are changing.  Not that there is a problem with that, but I miss a lot of the 'original' riders, they are now very scarce here.  

We sit now with a situation where we have to find the new line of acceptability in planning for events and gatherings.  This could back-lash on the forum, as costs could increase (knocking some riders out) or the event organisers could feel that the effort required is beyond thier availalbe time/desire.  

I feel that in essense, we are "Adventure Riders"... and we should cover ourselves as far as possible.  If you have interesting info pertaining to a location/event, put it up or forward to the organisers.  Guys, get pro-active yourselves if you think it's important, not dump more work/effort onto organisers.  

Maybe we can find a middle ground...

My 2c
I think that when a bash is put together the organizer should state clearly what is offered/planned. That way no one can come back later and refute anything. Organisers should state that KISS will be applied. :mwink:
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: DSNewbie on March 30, 2011, 09:14:44 am
At least this thread makes people think about the subject, mission accomplished I say.

Approach every ride as a "solo" ride, from a self-rescue point of view, and all will be well.
The fact that you are then riding with buddies just elevates safety/rescue to a much higher level.
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: RobC on March 30, 2011, 09:16:00 am
At least this thread makes people think about the subject, mission accomplished I say.

Approach every ride as a "solo" ride, from a self-rescue point of view, and all will be well.
The fact that you are then riding with buddies just elevates safety/rescue to a much higher level.

A very good way to approach any ride! :thumleft:
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: JourneyMan on March 30, 2011, 09:19:12 am


Kamanya explained the legal responsibilities. So go figure. Its just a matter of time before an arsehole sues or whatever.



Unfortunately that is the truth. Just a matter of time. American-sue-everybody-never-my-fault-syndrome is starting to take place in SA.


If I may toss my 5c worth in here!
Our Wild Dog bashes have become a lot more than a "party" and as such need a better approach to the way they are planned. I think the time has come that our esteemed leaders draw up a "hand book" on bash planning and make it a uniform affair. Not Bike SA style, but more a way it is planned and executed. 


Already in discussion on mod level.
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: RobC on March 30, 2011, 09:23:50 am

Kamanya explained the legal responsibilities. So go figure. Its just a matter of time before an arsehole sues or whatever.


Especially after April 1... CP law comes into play.  :-[
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: buzzlightyear on March 30, 2011, 09:24:24 am
If you want medical backup, recovery vehicle etc why not go on Moto Avontuur's rides rather than a WD bash  :lamer:
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: Ama ride ride on March 30, 2011, 09:26:02 am
Cocky

Lets take the BMW GS challenge as an example. The idea behind the GS challenge was also to get GS owners to get out and go and ride.  It grew from a 94 (??) attendance to well over 800 (??). They had everything in place. Medical backups galore, food, bar, , workshops etc etc. Yet the riders still fell themselves in their moer. There even was a death. I attended the second one. It costed R990pp. The last one costed over R3000. Yet there was still complains from suur gatte. And where is the GSC today?

I made comments on this forum in 2006 that there was too many riders riding routes above their skills level. This led to high insurance claims and a result that BMW insurance did not cover the GSC any more. I have also seen how riders fall them moer toe sumply cos they was so jacked up.

To organise a bash is a big headache and everybody does it for the LOVE. Complicate it and everything will grind to a halt.

It will happens and soon bashes will only be by invitation.
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: cocky on March 30, 2011, 09:26:23 am
If you want medical backup, recovery vehicle etc why not go on Moto Avontuur's rides rather than a WD bash  :lamer:
:thumleft: :thumleft: :thumleft: :thumleft: :thumleft: :thumleft: :thumleft: :thumleft: :thumleft:
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: Pistonpete on March 30, 2011, 09:50:02 am
The input here is all valid. It's a heads up for future gatherings.

All we actually need is more qualified para-medics, effective radio communications and some satellite phones.

If anyone can sponsor the last two items please come forward!  :thumleft:  :)


Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: Grrrr.... on March 30, 2011, 09:57:40 am
(http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o29/andreafer/y1p42cL-toBhtn8KnCVdbWOlKWEKLRAoqiN.jpg)
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: DSNewbie on March 30, 2011, 10:06:59 am
(http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o29/andreafer/y1p42cL-toBhtn8KnCVdbWOlKWEKLRAoqiN.jpg)

Until you fall and break something...
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: cocky on March 30, 2011, 10:08:32 am
Cocky

Lets take the BMW GS challenge as an example. The idea behind the GS challenge was also to get GS owners to get out and go and ride.  It grew from a 94 (??) attendance to well over 800 (??). They had everything in place. Medical backups galore, food, bar, , workshops etc etc. Yet the riders still fell themselves in their moer. There even was a death. I attended the second one. It costed R990pp. The last one costed over R3000. Yet there was still complains from suur gatte. And where is the GSC today?

I made comments on this forum in 2006 that there was too many riders riding routes above their skills level. This led to high insurance claims and a result that BMW insurance did not cover the GSC any more. I have also seen how riders fall them moer toe sumply cos they was so jacked up.

To organise a bash is a big headache and everybody does it for the LOVE. Complicate it and everything will grind to a halt.

It will happens and soon bashes will only be by invitation.

Ama, I hear what you are saying and we do NOT want our bashes going that route, however what I am proposing is a degree of uniformity in the organising and taking cognisance of the fact that the organisers have a degree of responsibility in ensuring that things are run orderly.
I am not for one minute proposing that we go the GS challenge route, keeping in mind that there is a cost to all the "nice to haves", however I think we need to get the "brand" out there and attract people to DS biking, in it's purist and simplest form, which is what the majority of us strive to do?
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: Freak on March 30, 2011, 10:10:37 am
The input here is all valid. It's a heads up for future gatherings.

All we actually need is more qualified para-medics, effective radio communications and some satellite phones.

If anyone can sponsor the last two items please come forward!  :thumleft:  :)




I THINK NEXT TIME YOU ORGANISE A BASH... DONT GIVE A TYPED OUT INDEMNITY... WRITE THE BLOODY THING WITH A ARTLINER KOKI AND KEEP IT SIMPLE..

I HEREBY PROMISE TO COVER MY OWN ASS...AND WHEN I SIGN THIS, I WILL RESPECT MY BODY AND NOT TRY KILL MYSELF...

SHOULD I HURT MYSELF,OR DRIFT OFF FROM THE PLANNED PLAN OR ROUTE,  PLS  MY FELLOW RIDERS...HELP AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE.

I for one, have ordered my ice tag and wear my attgatt and leatt as much as possible... So what happens happens..

After this incident i have also realised that i am a tad slack, and in future will give my next of kin all the available info.

Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: Pistonpete on March 30, 2011, 10:11:47 am
Cocky

Lets take the BMW GS challenge as an example. The idea behind the GS challenge was also to get GS owners to get out and go and ride.  It grew from a 94 (??) attendance to well over 800 (??). They had everything in place. Medical backups galore, food, bar, , workshops etc etc. Yet the riders still fell themselves in their moer. There even was a death. I attended the second one. It costed R990pp. The last one costed over R3000. Yet there was still complains from suur gatte. And where is the GSC today?

I made comments on this forum in 2006 that there was too many riders riding routes above their skills level. This led to high insurance claims and a result that BMW insurance did not cover the GSC any more. I have also seen how riders fall them moer toe sumply cos they was so jacked up.

To organise a bash is a big headache and everybody does it for the LOVE. Complicate it and everything will grind to a halt.

It will happens and soon bashes will only be by invitation.

Ama, I hear what you are saying and we do NOT want our bashes going that route, however what I am proposing is a degree of uniformity in the organising and taking cognisance of the fact that the organisers have a degree of responsibility in ensuring that things are run orderly.
I am not for one minute proposing that we go the GS challenge route, keeping in mind that there is a cost to all the "nice to haves", however I think we need to get the "brand" out there and attract people to DS biking, in it's purist and simplest form, which is what the majority of us strive to do?
If an organiosor is made liable for incidents this whole thing will fizzle out.
All we are doing is creating an environment in which to meet and ride together.
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: Snafu on March 30, 2011, 10:17:38 am
If you want medical backup, recovery vehicle etc why not go on Moto Avontuur's rides rather than a WD bash  :lamer:

And then it is R650 pp for one night.

Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: DSNewbie on March 30, 2011, 10:20:14 am
If an organiosor is made liable for incidents this whole thing will fizzle out.
All we are doing is creating an environment in which to meet and ride together.

Summed up nicely  :thumleft:

On the trip planning threads there is usually a lot of banter, what booze to take, who shares a tent with who, etc., it would not cost anyone anything, or place assumed liability on anyone, to post tips on some of the "rescue" things to consider, like contact numbers of rescue services and hospitals on or close to the route, who on the ride is medically trained, what to pack in your personal medic kit (apart from your favorite drink), and so forth.
Also to highlight the remoteness and possible risks (a bit nanny style, but lessens the "I did not know there is no cell phone signal there" type of crap)

This will definitely assist the newbies, and a number of seasoned riders too.

Also, for most "extreme" sports, it does not harm anyone to go for basic first aid training, for yourself and your potential riding buddies.
It is also not very expensive, and could be done to supplement tech days and how-to-fix-punctures days.

Always be prepared to take responsibility for yourself!
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: Chairman Meow on March 30, 2011, 10:48:41 am
Good point PP- The GKG was the first of these kinda bike related events that I organized and although it was fairly simple to do I only had to deal with 20 plus riders.
I must say that after that experience I take my hat of to you for dealing with such a large crowd + sponsored prizes + collecting and distribution funds.
A lot the arguments in this tread makes sense and there seem to be a clear divide between the hardcore-each-his-own approach AND the safety-and- comfort approach vs cost.
Somewhere there must be some degree of middle ground.

I fully support the fact that it would be unrealistic to hold a orginizer/s responsible for liability on crashes or similar predicaments, but in the same breath some basic info can't be more hassle to provide than th actual orginizing of such an event anyway.
The issue also becomes harder when dealing with such a large group in the middle of nowhere.

The other argument could also be that maybe with all the medical back-ups and safety nets it could encourage some riders to take bigger risks knowing that help is just around the corner.

In the end these are party-vibe get-together's where booze and good times go hand in hand and somewhere along the line there are motorcycles thrown in for good measure it waill always needless to say up the risk factor.

As said before, these type of events are brought together by enthusiastic and willing riders for the love of biking and sharing a weekend together......anything/everything else beyond that point would be difficult to put in place without it effecting the cost and will to do it dramatically.

Thus the more people and remoteness of event  the bigger need for safety and logistic back-up but the also bigger cost factor

or maybe another way to look at it would be-

The more people to an event the cheaper cost when divided by participants for medic and back-up but still a lot more stuff to orginize.

A true Chicken & Egg situation...  

    
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: RobC on March 30, 2011, 11:01:41 am
C Meow
My experience has been more on the MX/Off road level and there we also have the chicken-egg parameter.
Everyone wants to pitch and ride but no one wants to pay to do so yet expect top notch facilities for mahala...
That aspect and attitude from today's participants has soured my enthusiasm for to say the least. :xxbah:

So if needs be let us keep things simple with the clear understanding that all the organizer will do is get and book a venue for X date/period, collect the fees for said venue and that is the sum total of responsibility on their part. :deal:
The organizer can then state the obvious for those to lazy to do some research on the venue; :deal:
Cell reception
Nearest medical response and contact details
Number of bushes to use for ablutions
etc.

(ag there we go again complexing the issue!) :imaposer:
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: Ama ride ride on March 30, 2011, 11:03:21 am
Meow

Where does one draw the line? Who is responsible for medical help?

A.) If I ride the R355 alone and fall cos of my own stupidity
B.) If I get invited to ride the R355 with friends and I fall cos of my own stupidity
C.) If Piston Pete organise a lekker get together near the R355 and I fall cos of my own stupidity.

Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: Pistonpete on March 30, 2011, 11:08:52 am
Meow

Where does one draw the line? Who is responsible for medical help?

A.) If I ride the R355 alone and fall cos of my own stupidity
B.) If I get invited to ride the R355 with friends and I fall cos of my own stupidity
C.) If Piston Pete organise a lekker get together near the R355 and I fall cos of my own stupidity.


+1

People must recognise the spirit in which we participate.
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: RobC on March 30, 2011, 11:14:36 am
Meow

Where does one draw the line? Who is responsible for medical help?

A.) If I ride the R355 alone and fall cos of my own stupidity
B.) If I get invited to ride the R355 with friends and I fall cos of my own stupidity
C.) If Piston Pete organise a lekker get together near the R355 and I fall cos of my own stupidity.


A good lawyer will do the following;
a. Sue the appropriate roads authority for not ensuring rider safety. >:D
b. Sue the invitee, friends and road authority for contributing to the accident in various ways. ::)
c. Sue PP for every red cent he has. :-\

Moral of the story... keep lawyers out of things except when riding solo! :mwink:
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: Chairman Meow on March 30, 2011, 11:24:47 am
 :laughing4:........Definitely No Lawyers  (Black Bottle)  :biggrin:

........In the end its a interesting debate.
Know the risks,use your commen sense , stand up and take responsibility for your actions and go and enjoy the ride.

(or make friends with doctors & lawyers and make sure they are part of your atgatt)  ;D
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: Pistonpete on March 30, 2011, 11:27:22 am
RYNET.....kom help asseblief!  :imaposer:
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: tau on March 30, 2011, 11:27:43 am
I think included in your name on the list thread for who is coming and who is sleeping in what where, maybe we should make an ICE list so that we can print and if a fellow riders crashes we can have all his details.

This thread is to improve our situation and limit problems in future. I think all was great on the weekend we just need more communication plans.

Maybe we all pitch in to purchase a Sat phone ?????
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: Legadema on March 30, 2011, 11:30:46 am
The input here is all valid. It's a heads up for future gatherings.

All we actually need is more qualified para-medics, effective radio communications and some satellite phones.

If anyone can sponsor the last two items please come forward!  :thumleft:  :)



Pete, I have a satellite phone that is available for any WD outride. You just have to get your own simcard. Pm me if you need for a WD event. Anytime for free.
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: Pistonpete on March 30, 2011, 11:31:07 am
I think included in your name on the list thread for who is coming and who is sleeping in what where, maybe we should make an ICE list so that we can print and if a fellow riders crashes we can have all his details.

This thread is to improve our situation and limit problems in future. I think all was great on the weekend we just need more communication plans.

Maybe we all pitch in to purchase a Sat phone ?????
I think MRBig has some kind of list?
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: Pistonpete on March 30, 2011, 11:32:31 am
The input here is all valid. It's a heads up for future gatherings.

All we actually need is more qualified para-medics, effective radio communications and some satellite phones.

If anyone can sponsor the last two items please come forward!  :thumleft:  :)



Pete, I have a satellite phone that is available for any WD outride. You just have to get your own simcard. Pm me if you need for a WD event. Anytime for free.
Dogs for dogs... :thumleft:
Thanks Legadema
PM sent
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: tau on March 30, 2011, 11:35:51 am
I think included in your name on the list thread for who is coming and who is sleeping in what where, maybe we should make an ICE list so that we can print and if a fellow riders crashes we can have all his details.

This thread is to improve our situation and limit problems in future. I think all was great on the weekend we just need more communication plans.

Maybe we all pitch in to purchase a Sat phone ?????
I think MRBig has some kind of list?

Like this pete???

1. Tau     John Webb- Discovery Health-   ICE: Janel Webb 765646677- allergy's: being bored.


Then we all know. If not public then send to orginiser who has a list and copy's them and hand to sweepers and back up vehicle and Bradley's.


The input here is all valid. It's a heads up for future gatherings.

All we actually need is more qualified para-medics, effective radio communications and some satellite phones.

If anyone can sponsor the last two items please come forward!  :thumleft:  :)



Pete, I have a satellite phone that is available for any WD outride. You just have to get your own simcard. Pm me if you need for a WD event. Anytime for free.
Dogs for dogs... :thumleft:
Thanks Legadema
PM sent

Befork oom Bob
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: Pistonpete on March 30, 2011, 11:38:35 am
Lets get hold of Big & see how he rolls with it :thumleft:
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: Rynet on March 30, 2011, 11:44:19 am
The input here is all valid. It's a heads up for future gatherings.

All we actually need is more qualified para-medics, effective radio communications and some satellite phones.

If anyone can sponsor the last two items please come forward!  :thumleft:  :)



Pete, I have a satellite phone that is available for any WD outride. You just have to get your own simcard. Pm me if you need for a WD event. Anytime for free.

Thanks Legadema  :thumleft:. When 120 people gather together esp riding together , as much as they can do plenty for themselves , there will always be a big chance of something going wrong and the presence of a Sat phone ( which number should be posted on the main planning a ride thread) and which could be used for emergencies  ( and only for emergencies ) both from home and esp at at the camp to phone a pre-arranged hospital will make a crucial difference .  :thumleft: :thumleft:
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: IDR on March 30, 2011, 11:48:02 am
Lets get hold of Big & see how he rolls with it :thumleft:

Mr Big's list is really a help you when you are stranded list, a list of people who are willing to help, not participants.

It might be worthwhile to keep a list of just such information per member, if they so choose - as tau mentioned above.  In all fairness though, you should have this stuff on your person and accessible IN ANY CASE.

ICE tags for one are great, get some here: http://www.iceid.co.za/home.php?cat=3
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: Rynet on March 30, 2011, 11:59:05 am
@rynet: as jou buddies rerig bekommerd was kon hulle die 1km tot bo op die bult gery het en hul MTN fone gebruik het om te bel en hoor waar jy is.

wat verhoed enigeen van ons om 'n foon op te tel of te google waar die naaste hospitaal is?



THe point is that we were not informed that there is no telephone or reception at the farm.  If I had known before the time it would have made it easier . In my case it was a non issue, and my friends did gather , correctly , that I would not ride in the dark , but if someone from home had been dying and needed to reach a love one at the Bash it could have been an issue. Maybe just something that the organisers could post on the planning a ride thread next time ?  THat there is no telephone or cell reception . Or even better , have a Satelite phone, which Legadema has now kindly offered to lend to a future Bash .

The second point was not that one could not google. It would have just been easier if the hospital stuff had been done before the time . But not blaming , we did not think of it . Point of this thread to do it better for a future Bash. After the accident Charl's friends apparently struggled to get the number of the hospital and for some or other reason could not find a telephone or the nearest hospital's details at the Bash , or not fast enough and that the ambulance could not be directed to the Bash,  and the wives back in Cape Town had to do the phoning around and the directing the hospital ambulance to the Bash.

In no way am I saying Charl's did not get the best help at the Bash , but if there was a working telephone and pre-arraged plans for a hospital and ambulance being being aware of the Bash and how to get there ( NOT on standbye) , then things could have been smoother and less stressed for him and his friends and family , that's all.  I agree that the Bash was perfect .

Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: Wooly Bugger on March 30, 2011, 12:05:52 pm
@Cockster.................I don't agree with the concept of uniformity of the regional bashes, each to his own and keep up the respective traditions built-up to date.
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: MrBig on March 30, 2011, 12:35:52 pm
Lets get hold of Big & see how he rolls with it :thumleft:

Mr Big's list is really a help you when you are stranded list, a list of people who are willing to help, not participants.

It might be worthwhile to keep a list of just such information per member, if they so choose - as tau mentioned above.  In all fairness though, you should have this stuff on your person and accessible IN ANY CASE.

ICE tags for one are great, get some here: http://www.iceid.co.za/home.php?cat=3

Unfortunately the data I have pertains more to Roadside Assistance and only has contact details of participating members.
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: Rynet on March 30, 2011, 12:50:18 pm
RYNET.....kom help asseblief!  :imaposer:

Sorry Pete , just saw your comment now. I think in SA most people cannot afford to sue for delict. It costs big money to sue . Mostly lawyers will only take on delict cases like RAF ( Road Accident Fund ) cases or against say a hospital or if you fall at Pick and Pay, and only when there is a clear cut case of fault,  because then the lawyer knows his fees will be paid by the RAF or the State or say Pick and Pay at the end . No one is going to sue you for a bike accident if you arrange the event , because how do you prove you are to blame ? and secondly because you won't have enough money  :biggrin: , so I think there is nothing to worry about. But I can look at your disclaimer form or help you with a blurb to put in your future Planning a Ride theads , so e -mail it to me ,  or join us for drinks at Firemans and chat to me ,  but really if you are not Raymond Ackerman or the State , don't worry  ;) We are definately far from being the sue -happy lilke the Americans are . My 2 cents .
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: AntonW on March 30, 2011, 01:37:23 pm
Maybe the WD forum should have an ICE list of all members?
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: IDR on March 30, 2011, 01:50:10 pm
Maybe the WD forum should have an ICE list of all members?

However, I would not want my personal details available to just anyone who can register on the forum....
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: IDR on March 30, 2011, 01:53:28 pm
Seriously, everyone should be responsible for themselves ICE... get an ICE tag, ffs.  As in life, as on this forum, you are ultimately responsible for your own actions, and should both live and ride accordingly.  If you are the type to jump out of airplanes with a light canvas strapped to your back, have some sort of ICE information on you.

To burden a single organiser with the responsibility to look after you if you had to come pipe is also unfair - he might be having a good time at base camp 10 beers deep, out of cellphone range.

Be practical about it - if you're in a small group, share ICE details, and keep copies of each between you.  AND HAVE YOUR OWN ICE INFO READILY AVAILABLE, on your wrist, helmet, wherever.
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: 2phat on March 30, 2011, 01:54:16 pm
"Maybe the WD forum should have an ICE list of all members?"

In theory yes- but like IDR said -
And again it is shifting responsibility to other people..
Just wear an ICE tag and have an ICE number on your cell phone!

EDIT: Sorry IDR replied too his own post at same time
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: BOER! on March 30, 2011, 02:03:40 pm
Valid point IDR.

When  I plan a social outride, I make a quick list of all the guys who showed interest.

Morning of the ride, I hand out a Excell spreadsheet printed out, with ICE nrs only to be filled in by the riders.

As organizer of the ride, it helps and takes 5minutes.  And avoid an hours confusion and phoning around.
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: laurika on March 30, 2011, 02:15:20 pm
the cost of a medic and his little bakkie would be minimal if split by all the attendants at a bash...we use them all the time during filmshoots...most of them have sattelite phones anyway when they are out in the bundu...make use of the industries 'loose' medics (non affiliated), i cant see how that could add to the arrangements in any large way..its really only one phonecall and the guy rocks up and stays sober also...and it could make a large difference to the injured, hungover and legless.... ::)
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: RobC on March 30, 2011, 02:26:10 pm
the cost of a medic and his little bakkie would be minimal if split by all the attendants at a bash...we use them all the time during filmshoots...most of them have sattelite phones anyway when they are out in the bundu...make use of the industries 'loose' medics (non affiliated), i cant see how that could add to the arrangements in any large way..its really only one phonecall and the guy rocks up and stays sober also...and it could make a large difference to the injured, hungover and legless.... ::)
Agreed... But... That is usually a qualified ALS medic (would not settle for less if there is no ambo btw.)... going rate for a day can be R5000 to R10000 plus milage to get to the location and back. Divide that by qty attending? add that to the camping/accomodation and you get 100 less pitching... so there goes the medic... ::)
Why do you think there are usually no medics at non MSA events (aka illegal drags/off roads/fun days)... cos they cost money and would make the "entry fee" more than 100 bucks.
The moment you provide medical back up a whole can of worms gets opened regarding responsibilities etc.
Afaik in a work related situation like a film shoot it is required by the insurer that a ALS medic be present?
Should an organizer decide to take out cover in case of litigation this would be a requirement as well. :deal:
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: Wooly Bugger on March 30, 2011, 02:28:39 pm
@RobC.....................

is there anything that you DON'T know............. :biggrin:
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: IDR on March 30, 2011, 02:29:12 pm
the cost of a medic and his little bakkie would be minimal if split by all the attendants at a bash...we use them all the time during filmshoots...most of them have sattelite phones anyway when they are out in the bundu...make use of the industries 'loose' medics (non affiliated), i cant see how that could add to the arrangements in any large way..its really only one phonecall and the guy rocks up and stays sober also...and it could make a large difference to the injured, hungover and legless.... ::)

Ungh, I dunno man.  It just adds to the 'club'-feel.  I really think, as older (well, most of us ;D ), relatively responsible and mature people, it should not be necessary - and adds an unnecessary overhead, both financialyy and from an organisation perspective.

If you want an ambulance at a bash, perhaps then you should rather attend a rally.
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: Rynet on March 30, 2011, 02:31:59 pm
Why dont we start a sticky thread under Planning a Ride , called How to plan for Emergencies or similar . Not for Bashes just for any rides , alone or in a group . Then Andy660 can put down his telephone numbers for the helicopter in the Cape and others can add other important numbers . And people can share how they handled accidents they have been on and what they have learnt what is important to look out for  . I have been on a couple of rides where people broke legs , feet etc but with the BMW club we almost always had back up drivers and Sat phone , who simply take them to the nearest hospital, unless they are in a serious condition and then the helicopter fetches them. When Andy 660 had his very bad accident last year in the Anysberg Reserve  , I was very impressed at how evereyone in the group handled it . Of course it helped that we had a brain surgeon riding with us  :thumleft: ( Tuerag) and between him and Bradleys they kept Andy still , stabillised , knew they could take off his helmet as he was struggling breathing as they tested to see if he had broken his neck ( he could feel his legs etc) etc etc and he made it , even though we all had a very big scare as he was bleeding from his nose , mouth and ears .

Maybe tips like mentioned above that every team leader gets all the ICE from his riding team , hospital details en route etc

And for solo riders,  info and tips eg that they warn someone what the solo rider's routes are every day , and that they check in say every day with someone so that the person doesn't fall down a ravine and have to die of a broken leg , because no one knows where they are, as happened to that unfortunate man near the Baviaans recently .

I for one would like such a thread as I don't nearly know nearly enough what to do in case of an accident of a friend in an isolated place  .
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: JourneyMan on March 30, 2011, 02:33:16 pm
What's the cost of medic: (Thanks, Rob. Got a ball park but would like a more accurate figure. ;))

1. On-site Friday/Saturday/Sunday only. What does this include/exclude?
2. If called out for an accident involving a member, additional cost?
3. Evacuation of member from accident site.

What else?


Thanks.
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: RobC on March 30, 2011, 02:33:37 pm
@RobC.....................

is there anything that you DON'T know............. :biggrin:
I know how to use Google... :ricky:
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: RobC on March 30, 2011, 02:35:07 pm

If you want an ambulance at a bash, perhaps then you should rather attend a rally.
With you 100% IDR...
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: Wooly Bugger on March 30, 2011, 02:35:47 pm
@RobC.....................

is there anything that you DON'T know............. :biggrin:
I know how ro use Google... :ricky:

but you don't know how to spell............
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: Wooly Bugger on March 30, 2011, 02:36:30 pm
but you can edit pretty quick...............
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: IDR on March 30, 2011, 02:38:58 pm
What's the cost of medic: (Thanks, Rob. Got a ball park but would like a more accurate figure. ;))

1. On-site Friday/Saturday/Sunday only. What does this include/exclude?
2. If called out for an accident involving a member, additional cost?
3. Evacuation of member from accident site.

What else?


Thanks.


Can I get a cloth badge for my leather jacket when I attend the next rall... I mean bash?

Seriously.  There are enough people at a bash who would know enough and have enough supplies to get someone treated effectively and quickly if something had to happen.

I am sure a medic or ambulance is unnecessary!

PS: If anyone has the BEEEG babelas, or ever has a bone sticking through flesh, find me, and find my first aid kit! ;)
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: JourneyMan on March 30, 2011, 02:39:11 pm

If you want an ambulance at a bash, perhaps then you should rather attend a rally.
With you 100% IDR...

A few sexy nurses included..... ????? :mwink: :biggrin:
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: IDR on March 30, 2011, 02:40:00 pm

If you want an ambulance at a bash, perhaps then you should rather attend a rally.
With you 100% IDR...

A few sexy nurses included..... ????? :mwink: :biggrin:

Now THAT I can agree with, and perhaps even make a small contribution :thumleft:
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: JourneyMan on March 30, 2011, 02:40:47 pm
What's the cost of medic: (Thanks, Rob. Got a ball park but would like a more accurate figure. ;))

1. On-site Friday/Saturday/Sunday only. What does this include/exclude?
2. If called out for an accident involving a member, additional cost?
3. Evacuation of member from accident site.

What else?


Thanks.


Can I get a cloth badge for my leather jacket when I attend the next rall... I mean bash?

Seriously.  There are enough people at a bash who would know enough and have enough supplies to get someone treated effectively and quickly if something had to happen.

I am sure a medic or ambulance is unnecessary!

PS: If anyone has the BEEEG babelas, or ever has a bone sticking through flesh, find me, and find my first aid kit! ;)


Ja RecklessDirtRider. ::)

Just trying to get all the facts/possibilities/costs on the table. :deal: :biggrin:
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: IDR on March 30, 2011, 02:44:16 pm
I have to add, it might seem like I am taking some people on here - but it's most certainly not the case - I'm just speaking from my own experience of bashes, and how, firstly, there is hardly ever an issue, and the issues which I have experienced have always been dealt with quickly, effectively, and with ZERO repercussions to any organiser or injured - the Caledon bash incident springs to mind specifically - there was also no cellphone reception incidentally.

Seriously, I think an ambulance is total overkill.  Especially if you think how if an ambulance is called upon, and needs to deliver someone to a hospital, then you're without cover again.  All good and well for a racing event where the racing can be stopped.  A bash can NOT be stopped!!!! ;D

Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: RobC on March 30, 2011, 02:48:16 pm
What's the cost of medic: (Thanks, Rob. Got a ball park but would like a more accurate figure. ;))

1. On-site Friday/Saturday/Sunday only. What does this include/exclude?
2. If called out for an accident involving a member, additional cost?
3. Evacuation of member from accident site.

What else?


Thanks.

One would have to ask for specific quotes and shop around your region where the bash is held, my figures are based on what we have paid for medics at MX meets. The ALS is usually the biggest part of the package and we have had quotes of 10 grand just for the ALS and his Subaru above and beyond the 6 grand for the 2 ambos and 2 ILS medics and 2 first aid medics. This is usually the minimum requirement for a MX event/Off Road in our region. This is for 8 hours on site by the way... if you want em longer the fees escalate accordingly.

From your list the 3rd would be the most cost effective if you arranged before hand to have him on call in case of an accident but that would incur a delay in getting to the scene. The ideal is to have them on site but that is always the most expensive option.
Some medics also count on there being an accident... then they get paid for the evacuation by the patients medical aid plus a kickback from the hospital they have arrangements with to bring emergency cases.
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: IDR on March 30, 2011, 02:50:54 pm
What's the cost of medic: (Thanks, Rob. Got a ball park but would like a more accurate figure. ;))

1. On-site Friday/Saturday/Sunday only. What does this include/exclude?
2. If called out for an accident involving a member, additional cost?
3. Evacuation of member from accident site.

What else?


Thanks.

One would have to ask for specific quotes and shop around your region where the bash is held, my figures are based on what we have paid for medics at MX meets. The ALS is usually the biggest part of the package and we have had quotes of 10 grand just for the ALS and his Subaru above and beyond the 6 grand for the 2 ambos and 2 ILS medics and 2 first aid medics. This is usually the minimum requirement for a MX event/Off Road in our region. This is for 8 hours on site by the way... if you want em longer the fees escalate accordingly.

From your list the 3rd would be the most cost effective if you arranged before hand to have him on call in case of an accident but that would incur a delay in getting to the scene. The ideal is to have them on site but that is always the most expensive option.
Some medics also count on there being an accident... then they get paid for the evacuation by the patients medical aid plus a kickback from the hospital they have arrangements with to bring emergency cases.

Which is all good and well if you're at the venue.

Take the FreeState bash for example, how many okes were how far into Lesotho?  Would ouboet have brought his passport?  Medevac?

Again, I have to stress that it is of the utmost importance that YOU are aware that YOU should be ultimately responsible for YOUR own safety.  My medical aid will fly me out from wherever.  Will yours?
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: RobC on March 30, 2011, 02:56:13 pm
Seriously, I think an ambulance is total overkill.  Especially if you think how if an ambulance is called upon, and needs to deliver someone to a hospital, then you're without cover again.  All good and well for a racing event where the racing can be stopped.  A bash can NOT be stopped!!!! ;D


There is that aspect as well... At races there are usually 2 ambos, as soon as one leaves the medics have to call in a replacement unless there is also an ALS, but the moment there is no ambo the race is red flagged, often means canceling the rest of the races ALS or not. We had this happen at a National when there was a parachute accident at the airfield next door, fortunately this was during practice but it still caused a 2 hour delay to the event. En almal was de moer in vir die Organizers! ::)
Like we had control of what falls out of the sky? ::)
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: RobC on March 30, 2011, 02:59:59 pm
Again, I have to stress that it is of the utmost importance that YOU are aware that YOU should be ultimately responsible for YOUR own safety.  My medical aid will fly me out from wherever.  Will yours?
That is probably the most valid point...
Fortunately my Discovery package does... since I began riding again I have not begrudged the money I pay each month... without it my "fall over break a leg" would have set me back more than my bike cost! :deal:
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: Adventurer on March 30, 2011, 03:06:08 pm
And everyone is critical of the costs for Rally Raids, GS Challenge/Eco1000 etc.......Now perhaps people will start realizing what these events cost....
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: IDR on March 30, 2011, 03:07:51 pm
And everyone is critical of the costs for Rally Raids, GS Challenge/Eco1000 etc.......Now perhaps people will start realizing what these events cost....

Cold mielies are inexcusable though.
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: Adventurer on March 30, 2011, 03:09:44 pm
And everyone is critical of the costs for Rally Raids, GS Challenge/Eco1000 etc.......Now perhaps people will start realizing what these events cost....

Cold mielies are inexcusable though.

Absolutely...perhaps the heating money went to the medics.... :biggrin:
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: RobC on March 30, 2011, 03:18:09 pm
And everyone is critical of the costs for Rally Raids, GS Challenge/Eco1000 etc.......Now perhaps people will start realizing what these events cost....
We get the same at our MX Club... "Ma die baan is nie nat/geskraap/gerotovate nie, hoekom moet ek by die hek betaal"  :deal:
You need to PAY so we can water/grade/rotovate the track friend... ::)
It's times like that, that I rather go for a solo ride... :ricky:
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: Adventurer on March 30, 2011, 03:23:25 pm
I know the guy that does medical backup for the Yamaha events, as well as a variety of other dual sport events, I can get a cost estimate from him......
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: GRIM on March 30, 2011, 03:39:29 pm
I know the guy that does medical backup for the Yamaha events, as well as a variety of other dual sport events, I can get a cost estimate from him......

They do the medical at our trials events now aswell, very worthwhile. (won't mention their fees, but nowhere near what the MX guys appear to be paying)  ;D

We used to have an ER24 ambo & at least 2 medics at an event for around R2k for 6 hours on a Sunday...
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: Heimer on March 30, 2011, 03:45:46 pm
I would be careful.

Providing medical facilities places a level of accountability on the organisers, and there will now be expectations to manage (and defend if something goes wrong). From there, it is a slippery slope.

Rather be very clear on what will be there and what not, so people can accept the risks.
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: Jacko on March 30, 2011, 03:51:13 pm
I would be careful.

Providing medical facilities places a level of accountability on the organisers, and there will now be expectations to manage (and defend if something goes wrong). From there, it is a slippery slope.

Rather be very clear on what will be there and what not, so people can accept the risks.

+1

I know Bertus of Outdoor Medical. They are NOT going to be cheap. At least not on a level the average WD will be prepared to pay.

Stop this formal nonsense. We're adventure riders, ffs. We take (calculated) risks. If you don't want to accept them, then go and do a BMW club ride.

I hate rules and overly formal shyte when I'm biking. Otherwise I'd have bought a farking Harley or tootled along with Michelin Anakees, a 'group leader' and a neon yellow bib.  :pot:
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: RobC on March 30, 2011, 03:53:35 pm
I know the guy that does medical backup for the Yamaha events, as well as a variety of other dual sport events, I can get a cost estimate from him......

They do the medical at our trials events now aswell, very worthwhile. (won't mention their fees, but nowhere near what the MX guys appear to be paying)  ;D

We used to have an ER24 ambo & at least 2 medics at an event for around R2k for 6 hours on a Sunday...

That is one ambo... MX and Off road require 2 as well as 1x ALS medic and his car/ambo... trails as we know are a low speed event. :deal: :mwink:
It is usually the ALS that takes the biggest slice of the cake plus the level of life support skills required for the medical staff at MX and Off Road events that make them more expensive medic wise.
That being said... I would not like to have a simple first aid qualified medic and inadequate ambulance if any medical support was offered, either you go all the way with an ALS on hand or nothing.
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: Heimer on March 30, 2011, 04:02:34 pm
I had no expectation of medical support at the past event. This is how I prepared (and how I prepare for every trip):
- I had my ICE info,
- gave the place's co-ords, map printout, route and phone number to my wife (yes the number was on the thread).
- I packed a small medical trauma kit ( understand what is inside and how to use it)
- made sure I still understand basic CPR,
- had a chat with some riding buddies about backing each other up

I was pleasantly comforted on arrival to see a competent medic in attendance.

If these bash events become too formally organised, I predict a slow demise, as everything provided will be chewed and spat out afterward by somebody that expected something else / better.

I, for one would then rather join the informal / unofficial / rogue bash events that is bound to take place.
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: RobC on March 30, 2011, 04:11:23 pm
I would be careful.

Providing medical facilities places a level of accountability on the organisers, and there will now be expectations to manage (and defend if something goes wrong). From there, it is a slippery slope.

Rather be very clear on what will be there and what not, so people can accept the risks.

+1

I know Bertus of Outdoor Medical. They are NOT going to be cheap. At least not on a level the average WD will be prepared to pay.

Stop this formal nonsense. We're adventure riders, ffs. We take (calculated) risks. If you don't want to accept them, then go and do a BMW club ride.

I hate rules and overly formal shyte when I'm biking. Otherwise I'd have bought a farking Harley or tootled along with Michelin Anakees, a 'group leader' and a neon yellow bib.  :pot:

Hear hear...!!
You qualify for the red bib then... :mwink:
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: KAROODONKIE on March 30, 2011, 04:26:07 pm
I had no expectation of medical support at the past event. This is how I prepared (and how I prepare for every trip):
- I had my ICE info,
- gave the place's co-ords, map printout, route and phone number to my wife (yes the number was on the thread).
- I packed a small medical trauma kit ( understand what is inside and how to use it)
- made sure I still understand basic CPR,
- had a chat with some riding buddies about backing each other up

I was pleasantly comforted on arrival to see a competent medic in attendance.

If these bash events become too formally organised, I predict a slow demise, as everything provided will be chewed and spat out afterward by somebody that expected something else / better.

I, for one would then rather join the informal / unofficial / rogue bash events that is bound to take place.
.... and everything you mentioned would have been useless if you could not PHONE for an ambulance after you`ve been seriously injured !!!!  :eek7:  :eek7:  :eek7:
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: Heimer on March 30, 2011, 05:03:07 pm
I had no expectation of medical support at the past event. This is how I prepared (and how I prepare for every trip):
- I had my ICE info,
- gave the place's co-ords, map printout, route and phone number to my wife (yes the number was on the thread).
- I packed a small medical trauma kit ( understand what is inside and how to use it)
- made sure I still understand basic CPR,
- had a chat with some riding buddies about backing each other up

I was pleasantly comforted on arrival to see a competent medic in attendance.

If these bash events become too formally organised, I predict a slow demise, as everything provided will be chewed and spat out afterward by somebody that expected something else / better.

I, for one would then rather join the informal / unofficial / rogue bash events that is bound to take place.
.... and everything you mentioned would have been useless if you could not PHONE for an ambulance after you`ve been seriously injured !!!!  :eek7:  :eek7:  :eek7:

But I knew that up front and accepted the risk   ???

Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: whitefish on March 30, 2011, 05:09:55 pm
Ek sal n volledige medical kit sponsor vir elke WD WC bash :mwink: Sal ook hervul wat gebruik is, dit SLUIT PYNPILLE UIT :thumleft: Hoop dit kan help.
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: KAROODONKIE on March 30, 2011, 05:29:00 pm
I had no expectation of medical support at the past event. This is how I prepared (and how I prepare for every trip):
- I had my ICE info,
- gave the place's co-ords, map printout, route and phone number to my wife (yes the number was on the thread).
- I packed a small medical trauma kit ( understand what is inside and how to use it)
- made sure I still understand basic CPR,
- had a chat with some riding buddies about backing each other up

I was pleasantly comforted on arrival to see a competent medic in attendance.

If these bash events become too formally organised, I predict a slow demise, as everything provided will be chewed and spat out afterward by somebody that expected something else / better.

I, for one would then rather join the informal / unofficial / rogue bash events that is bound to take place.
.... and everything you mentioned would have been useless if you could not PHONE for an ambulance after you`ve been seriously injured !!!!  :eek7:  :eek7:  :eek7:

But I knew that up front and accepted the risk   ???


Ons praat weer as ek jou in die stof optel - jy sal bid vir `n ambulans!!!
Dink bietjie realisties, tot die manne in die Dakar val hulle vrek -  jy is seker BETER!!!!  >:D  >:D
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: Jacko on March 30, 2011, 05:36:20 pm
Ons praat weer as ek jou in die stof optel - jy sal bid vir `n ambulans!!!
Dink bietjie realisties, tot die manne in die Dakar val hulle vrek -  jy is seker BETER!!!!  >:D  >:D

Hmmm, ek dog die Dakar is 'n wedren?  ???

Se my Karoodonkie, as jy met jou bike langpad ry, vat jy mediese backup saam? Ek is seker sommige ouens is deur trauma die naweek. Maar ons moet 'n tree teruggee en 'n bietjie nugter daaroor dink.

Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: Heimer on March 30, 2011, 05:39:48 pm
I had no expectation of medical support at the past event. This is how I prepared (and how I prepare for every trip):
- I had my ICE info,
- gave the place's co-ords, map printout, route and phone number to my wife (yes the number was on the thread).
- I packed a small medical trauma kit ( understand what is inside and how to use it)
- made sure I still understand basic CPR,
- had a chat with some riding buddies about backing each other up

I was pleasantly comforted on arrival to see a competent medic in attendance.

If these bash events become too formally organised, I predict a slow demise, as everything provided will be chewed and spat out afterward by somebody that expected something else / better.

I, for one would then rather join the informal / unofficial / rogue bash events that is bound to take place.
.... and everything you mentioned would have been useless if you could not PHONE for an ambulance after you`ve been seriously injured !!!!  :eek7:  :eek7:  :eek7:

But I knew that up front and accepted the risk   ???


Ons praat weer as ek jou in die stof optel - jy sal bid vir `n ambulans!!!
Dink bietjie realisties, tot die manne in die Dakar val hulle vrek -  jy is seker BETER!!!!  >:D  >:D

Jy mis die punt heeltemal. As ek met jou stry, moet ek soos jy begin dink en dis nie moontlik nie.

++++ vir wat Jacko vra.
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: DSNewbie on March 30, 2011, 05:44:15 pm
I had no expectation of medical support at the past event. This is how I prepared (and how I prepare for every trip):
- I had my ICE info,
- gave the place's co-ords, map printout, route and phone number to my wife (yes the number was on the thread).
- I packed a small medical trauma kit ( understand what is inside and how to use it)
- made sure I still understand basic CPR,
- had a chat with some riding buddies about backing each other up

This is the least every rider should do, solo or riding with a group.

The fact that you might be in an area where there is no cell phone reception is a risk you knowingly take.
If you do not want to take that risk do not go there - it is called CHOICE.

Yes it is crap if you are the one who falls and breaks something, but you still joined knowing the risks.

I guess from now on the first page of any organized ride or bash should be all the RISK DISCLAIMERS.
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: Rynet on March 30, 2011, 05:46:41 pm
Ons praat weer as ek jou in die stof optel - jy sal bid vir `n ambulans!!!
Dink bietjie realisties, tot die manne in die Dakar val hulle vrek -  jy is seker BETER!!!!  >:D  >:D

Hmmm, ek dog die Dakar is 'n wedren?  ???

Se my Karoodonkie, as jy met jou bike langpad ry, vat jy mediese backup saam? Ek is seker sommige ouens is deur trauma die naweek. Maar ons moet 'n tree teruggee en 'n bietjie nugter daaroor dink.



Ag julle hou net van stry en bragg oor joe tough julle is , maar julle weet Karoodonkie is reg , as daar 120 plus bikers bymekaar is sonder 'n telefoon dan is die beslis 'n resep vir moeilikheid, en dit is heeltemal anders as wat dit net jy en jou buddies op 'n ride is.  So hou nou op om cowboys te speel en dink realisties  :deal: ;)

Ek dink by die volgende Bash sal die organiseerders 'n telefoon reel en met die naaste hospitaal reel dat hulle ten minste net weet van die Bash en weet hoe om by die Bash uit te kom  , dit sal stupid wees om dit nie te doen nie.
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: Freak on March 30, 2011, 05:51:04 pm
Ek dink hierdie topic is deur en deur goed verkrag... En if anything...

Het dit die organiseerders van diè event, goed afgesit om toekomstig iets te reel...

Ek weet dit sou my.

F@k mense, join die local rolbal klub.. Jou odds is beter daar vir oorlewing..
Die probleem is eintlik net dat sekere mense onseker is van hul eie persoonlike limiete, en wil net die gerusstelling van n mediese persoon he om dit vir hom te bepaal... Kry sommer n ambulans naby as jy jou kind entertain op n swaai.... Accidents happen you know...
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: MrBig on March 30, 2011, 05:51:33 pm
Quote
I guess from now on the first page of any organized ride or bash should be all the RISK DISCLAIMERS.

It usually is in any case.

Unfortunately in typical male biker fashion we all tend to overestimate our abilities.
Technical route? Sand? Other bikes?
Challenge accepted!
Yeehaa!  ;D

Ironically the best way to ensure that you won't crash is to ride alone.  ;)
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: Freak on March 30, 2011, 05:55:03 pm
Ons praat weer as ek jou in die stof optel - jy sal bid vir `n ambulans!!!
Dink bietjie realisties, tot die manne in die Dakar val hulle vrek -  jy is seker BETER!!!!  >:D  >:D

Hmmm, ek dog die Dakar is 'n wedren?  ???

Se my Karoodonkie, as jy met jou bike langpad ry, vat jy mediese backup saam? Ek is seker sommige ouens is deur trauma die naweek. Maar ons moet 'n tree teruggee en 'n bietjie nugter daaroor dink.



Ag julle hou net van stry en bragg oor joe tough julle is , maar julle weet Karoodonkie is reg , as daar 120 plus bikers bymekaar is sonder 'n telefoon dan is die beslis 'n resep vir moeilikheid, en dit is heeltemal anders as wat dit net jy en jou buddies op 'n ride is.  So hou nou op om cowboys te speel en dink realisties  :deal: ;)

Ek dink by die volgende Bash sal die organiseerders 'n telefoon reel en met die naaste hospitaal reel dat hulle ten minste net weet van die Bash en weet hoe om by die Bash uit te kom  , dit sal stupid wees om dit nie te doen nie.

Rynet...i disagree ( skokkend ek weet...)  ek het nie een keer die naweek die nodigheid gehad om voëllengtes te meet nie.. My spoed is my spoed..my limiete my limiete.. Niemand gaan dit verander nie..

Dalk moet die manne was " anders" wil wees en kragte meet by sulke events, onder mekaar n ambo huur... Net in case hulle gou iets moet bewys...
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: Pistonpete on March 30, 2011, 05:58:55 pm
All points noted.

Lets not turn this into an R&P thread.

We will in future take due caution where possible or deemed necessary but it will still be adventure riding done on a shoestring ;D Your pace your space...

Hell...i'm scared now to organise something for the third quarter this year! ;)
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: Rynet on March 30, 2011, 06:02:09 pm
Ons praat weer as ek jou in die stof optel - jy sal bid vir `n ambulans!!!
Dink bietjie realisties, tot die manne in die Dakar val hulle vrek -  jy is seker BETER!!!!  >:D  >:D

Hmmm, ek dog die Dakar is 'n wedren?  ???

Se my Karoodonkie, as jy met jou bike langpad ry, vat jy mediese backup saam? Ek is seker sommige ouens is deur trauma die naweek. Maar ons moet 'n tree teruggee en 'n bietjie nugter daaroor dink.



Ag julle hou net van stry en bragg oor joe tough julle is , maar julle weet Karoodonkie is reg , as daar 120 plus bikers bymekaar is sonder 'n telefoon dan is die beslis 'n resep vir moeilikheid, en dit is heeltemal anders as wat dit net jy en jou buddies op 'n ride is.  So hou nou op om cowboys te speel en dink realisties  :deal: ;)

Ek dink by die volgende Bash sal die organiseerders 'n telefoon reel en met die naaste hospitaal reel dat hulle ten minste net weet van die Bash en weet hoe om by die Bash uit te kom  , dit sal stupid wees om dit nie te doen nie.

Rynet...i disagree ( skokkend ek weet...)  ek het nie een keer die naweek die nodigheid gehad om voëllengtes te meet nie.. My spoed is my spoed..my limiete my limiete.. Niemand gaan dit verander nie..

Dalk moet die manne was " anders" wil wees en kragte meet by sulke events, onder mekaar n ambo huur... Net in case hulle gou iets moet bewys...

Eerstens ek weet nie hoe jy en ander vingers kan wys na Charl nie. Ons almal vat kanse as ons motorfiets ry en ek weet nie van een persoon wat nog nie geval het nie , ons was net meer gelukkig. So moet asb nie vingers wys en se^ Charl het soos 'n cowboy gery nie.  Hy het nie and There but the grace of God do we go .

Tweedens ek kla oor niks behalwe dat ek stel voor die volgende Bash is daar 'n foon , en reelings met die naaste hospitaal , en Legadema het reeds 'n Sat foon aangebied so die oplossing is reeds bereik ,  as mense dit sal aanvaar , danksy Karoodonkie wat sy mond oopgemaak het.

Derdens , kritiek is volwasse , en mens moet dit kan vat. Ek weier om op eggshells te loop net omdat daar sensitiewe broodjies soos jy op die forum is  :peepwall: :peepwall: :pot:

Daar was net een foon nommer op die plaas en dit was 'n sel en hy het nie gewerk nie. Recipe for disastar , ja . EK het dit ook nie vooraf anticipate nie so blameer nie die organiseerders nie, maar sekerlik omdat ons nou eenmaal die fout gemaak het, beplan ek nie om dieselfe fout weer te maak nie .  :deal: ;)
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: Heimer on March 30, 2011, 06:04:10 pm
Ons praat weer as ek jou in die stof optel - jy sal bid vir `n ambulans!!!
Dink bietjie realisties, tot die manne in die Dakar val hulle vrek -  jy is seker BETER!!!!  >:D  >:D

Hmmm, ek dog die Dakar is 'n wedren?  ???

Se my Karoodonkie, as jy met jou bike langpad ry, vat jy mediese backup saam? Ek is seker sommige ouens is deur trauma die naweek. Maar ons moet 'n tree teruggee en 'n bietjie nugter daaroor dink.



Ag julle hou net van stry en bragg oor joe tough julle is , maar julle weet Karoodonkie is reg , as daar 120 plus bikers bymekaar is sonder 'n telefoon dan is die beslis 'n resep vir moeilikheid, en dit is heeltemal anders as wat dit net jy en jou buddies op 'n ride is.  So hou nou op om cowboys te speel en dink realisties  :deal: ;)

Ek is fokol tough nie. Ek het byvoorbeeld Saterdag in die kamp gebly oor my babelaas te groot was vir die outride.

En jou ook toe jy aangekom het aangeraai om nie te gaan ry as jy nie iemand kan kry om mee saam te ry nie (gelukkig het jy iemand gekry)

Genoeg realisme?

Niemand wil in die veld le met 'n gebreekte been nie. Dis sekerlik een van die ergste dinge om oor te kom. Maar dis nie die punt nie.

Die punt is of die organiseerders voorsiening moet maak, en of individue (soos verantwoordlike grootmense) na hulsef kyk soos hulle op enige outride doen.
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: DRAZIL on March 30, 2011, 06:05:24 pm
I will not let the organisers of a bash be responsible for my misfortune should /when it happens,all they are doing is giving us a destination and a chance to meet like minded adventure individuals a chance to meet.They help by provide us braai packs and bevies instead of us lugging everything with.
I for one enjoy solo as there is no pressure how long I take to get there and which route.(copy's of my routes at home with wife)
I sometimes have a geocamp and the guys must find me it is up to the individuals to look after themselves and their mates when in a group.if I had to organise medics ect I would also need the law with some of the dogs >:D
example
http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=28428.0
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: 2StrokeDan on March 30, 2011, 06:13:15 pm
Guys and girls, look at this thread and excepting the few levelheads like Edgy and Jacko,etc, the rest should hang your heads in shame. Most of you already look like the accessory department at BMW HQ, complete with neckbraces and ballbaskets, and then you whine for medical back-up???And an ambulance on-site!!!! Hoe gaan die ouens DAN jaag?
Los liewer die Leatt tuis, lat jy kan jou kop ronddraai om die opstakels in die oog te kan hou.
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: KAROODONKIE on March 30, 2011, 06:17:09 pm
Ons praat weer as ek jou in die stof optel - jy sal bid vir `n ambulans!!!
Dink bietjie realisties, tot die manne in die Dakar val hulle vrek -  jy is seker BETER!!!!  >:D  >:D

Hmmm, ek dog die Dakar is 'n wedren?  ???

Se my Karoodonkie, as jy met jou bike langpad ry, vat jy mediese backup saam? Ek is seker sommige ouens is deur trauma die naweek. Maar ons moet 'n tree teruggee en 'n bietjie nugter daaroor dink.


Dit het niks met mediese back-up uit te waai nie - Bradleys was meer as bevoeg om die situasie te hanteer en die pasiënt te stabiliseer. Maar na dit het jy `n ambulans nodig!! In Charl se geval was tyd nie so kritiek soos iemand wat dalk `n rib deur die long het nie.
Ek praat van `n foon met `n nommer ...... Wat help Bradleys jou as jy nie by `n hospitaal kan kom nie??
Die ander ding wat jy nie kan weg redeneer nie is: Dit was `n gereelde byeenkoms!! En saam met dit kom verantwoordelikheid of jy nou wil of nie.
En ja, ek ry baie langpad ........... maar nie met 100 fietse nie!! Wys jy vir my `n outride met so getal fietse, sonder `n mediese gebeurlikheidplan??
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: Freak on March 30, 2011, 06:26:28 pm
Rynet... Dit was nie op charl gemik nie...gaan lees weer...

Ek stel voor ons hou die volgende bash by tygerberg nature reserve.... Dis naby karl bremer hospitaal, welgemoed is vol dokters, en being on a hill..... Is daar volop cell opvangs vir die wat so aanhou knaag daaroor...

Kry sommer jou vrou vir n late by mugg n bean in jou volle atgat by tyger vallei.

**Unsubscribe**
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: Heimer on March 30, 2011, 06:28:49 pm
Rynet... Dit was nie op charl gemik nie...gaan lees weer...

Ek stel voor ons hou die volgende bash by tygerberg nature reserve.... Dis naby karl bremer hospitaal, welgemoed is vol dokters, en being on a hill..... Is daar volop cell opvangs vir die wat so aanhou knaag daaroor...

Kry sommer jou vrou vir n late by mugg n bean in jou volle atgat by tyger vallei.

**Unsubscribe**


+1
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: Rynet on March 30, 2011, 06:39:10 pm
Hehe nou dat ek vir Heimer en Freak moeg gemaak het wil ek graag vir Bradleys dankie se^ :

Almal weet miskien nie maar Bradleys is 'n baie bekwame para-medic met baie ondervinding van motorfiets ongelukke, hy was al die medic by 14 Desert Runs , hy het al met verskei gebreekde bene gewerk  , insluitende femurs en selfs gebreekde nekke . Hy het presies geweet wat om te doen met Charl , pasient stabiliseer, hart en pols gemeet, hy het die femur breek korrek gediagnoseer, korrekte en sterk pyn medisyne gegee,  en het ook die groot moontllikheid geweet van murg in sy bloed en moontlik longe kon lek ,  en dat vir die rede dat Charl nie in 'n back -up voertuig kom weggeneem word nie. Hy moes met ambulaans wat suurstof ens het geneem word. So niemand se^ dat selfs die hoogste gekwalifeseerde doktor meer as Bradleys kon gedoen het nie op die toneel en sonder 'n ambulans nie . En ek wil ook net hierby die geleentheid neem om vir Bradleys dankie te se^ vir wat hy met Charl en sy ander 4/5 patiente van die dag gedoen het met medisyne wat hy met sy eie geld gekoop het . Thanks Bradleys  :thumleft:

Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: 2StrokeDan on March 30, 2011, 06:43:31 pm
Yes, really nice one Bradley.
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: laurika on March 30, 2011, 06:45:30 pm
Hehe nou dat ek vir Heimer en Freak moeg gemaak het wil ek graag vir Bradleys dankie se^ :

Almal weet miskien nie maar Bradleys is 'n baie bekwame para-medic met baie ondervinding van motorfiets ongelukke, hy was al die medic by 14 Desert Runs , hy het al met verskei gebreekde bene gewerk  , insluitende femurs en selfs gebreekde nekke . Hy het presies geweet wat om te doen met Charl , pasient stabiliseer, hart en pols gemeet, hy het die femur breek korrek gediagnoseer, korrekte en sterk pyn medisyne gegee,  en het ook die groot moontllikheid geweet van murg in sy bloed en moontlik longe kon lek ,  en dat vir die rede dat Charl nie in 'n back -up voertuig kom weggeneem word nie. Hy moes met ambulaans wat suurstof ens het geneem word. So niemand se^ dat selfs die hoogste gekwalifeseerde doktor meer as Bradleys kon gedoen het nie op die toneel en sonder 'n ambulans nie . En ek wil ook net hierby die geleentheid neem om vir Bradleys dankie te se^ vir wat hy met Charl en sy ander 4/5 patiente van die dag gedoen het met medisyne wat hy met sy eie geld gekoop het . Thanks Bradleys  :thumleft:


Rynet : vir die Tert Toer, sal ons die hunkieste paramedic saamvat...sy naam is Tony....ons sal sy vergoeding nog moet uitsorteer....biere of drukkies.... >:D
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: Rynet on March 30, 2011, 06:53:23 pm
Hehe nou dat ek vir Heimer en Freak moeg gemaak het wil ek graag vir Bradleys dankie se^ :

Almal weet miskien nie maar Bradleys is 'n baie bekwame para-medic met baie ondervinding van motorfiets ongelukke, hy was al die medic by 14 Desert Runs , hy het al met verskei gebreekde bene gewerk  , insluitende femurs en selfs gebreekde nekke . Hy het presies geweet wat om te doen met Charl , pasient stabiliseer, hart en pols gemeet, hy het die femur breek korrek gediagnoseer, korrekte en sterk pyn medisyne gegee,  en het ook die groot moontllikheid geweet van murg in sy bloed en moontlik longe kon lek ,  en dat vir die rede dat Charl nie in 'n back -up voertuig kom weggeneem word nie. Hy moes met ambulaans wat suurstof ens het geneem word. So niemand se^ dat selfs die hoogste gekwalifeseerde doktor meer as Bradleys kon gedoen het nie op die toneel en sonder 'n ambulans nie . En ek wil ook net hierby die geleentheid neem om vir Bradleys dankie te se^ vir wat hy met Charl en sy ander 4/5 patiente van die dag gedoen het met medisyne wat hy met sy eie geld gekoop het . Thanks Bradleys  :thumleft:


Rynet : vir die Tert Toer, sal ons die hunkieste paramedic saamvat...sy naam is Tony....ons sal sy vergoeding nog moet uitsorteer....biere of drukkies.... >:D

 :biggrin:  maar moet se^ Bradleys is self nogal sag op die oe  :biggrin:
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: 2StrokeDan on March 30, 2011, 06:55:26 pm
Maar soek julle girls dan iets sags? :peepwall:
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: Rynet on March 30, 2011, 07:00:38 pm
Maar soek julle girls dan iets sags? :peepwall:

:imaposer: :imaposer: :imaposer:
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: JC on March 30, 2011, 07:02:50 pm
Ons praat weer as ek jou in die stof optel - jy sal bid vir `n ambulans!!!
Dink bietjie realisties, tot die manne in die Dakar val hulle vrek -  jy is seker BETER!!!!  >:D  >:D

Hmmm, ek dog die Dakar is 'n wedren?  ???

Se my Karoodonkie, as jy met jou bike langpad ry, vat jy mediese backup saam? Ek is seker sommige ouens is deur trauma die naweek. Maar ons moet 'n tree teruggee en 'n bietjie nugter daaroor dink.


Dit het niks met mediese back-up uit te waai nie - Bradleys was meer as bevoeg om die situasie te hanteer en die pasiënt te stabiliseer. Maar na dit het jy `n ambulans nodig!! In Charl se geval was tyd nie so kritiek soos iemand wat dalk `n rib deur die long het nie.
Ek praat van `n foon met `n nommer ...... Wat help Bradleys jou as jy nie by `n hospitaal kan kom nie??
Die ander ding wat jy nie kan weg redeneer nie is: Dit was `n gereelde byeenkoms!! En saam met dit kom verantwoordelikheid of jy nou wil of nie.
En ja, ek ry baie langpad ........... maar nie met 100 fietse nie!! Wys jy vir my `n outride met so getal fietse, sonder `n mediese gebeurlikheidplan??

remind my asseblief om jou nie op 'n trip te nooi nie, netnou val jy en ek is verantwoordelik vir jou of ek word gedagvaar

ns. dis tong-in-die-kies, maar waar trek mens die streep?
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: KAROODONKIE on March 30, 2011, 07:10:43 pm
Ons praat weer as ek jou in die stof optel - jy sal bid vir `n ambulans!!!
Dink bietjie realisties, tot die manne in die Dakar val hulle vrek -  jy is seker BETER!!!!  >:D  >:D

Hmmm, ek dog die Dakar is 'n wedren?  ???

Se my Karoodonkie, as jy met jou bike langpad ry, vat jy mediese backup saam? Ek is seker sommige ouens is deur trauma die naweek. Maar ons moet 'n tree teruggee en 'n bietjie nugter daaroor dink.


Dit het niks met mediese back-up uit te waai nie - Bradleys was meer as bevoeg om die situasie te hanteer en die pasiënt te stabiliseer. Maar na dit het jy `n ambulans nodig!! In Charl se geval was tyd nie so kritiek soos iemand wat dalk `n rib deur die long het nie.
Ek praat van `n foon met `n nommer ...... Wat help Bradleys jou as jy nie by `n hospitaal kan kom nie??
Die ander ding wat jy nie kan weg redeneer nie is: Dit was `n gereelde byeenkoms!! En saam met dit kom verantwoordelikheid of jy nou wil of nie.
En ja, ek ry baie langpad ........... maar nie met 100 fietse nie!! Wys jy vir my `n outride met so getal fietse, sonder `n mediese gebeurlikheidplan??

remind my asseblief om jou nie op 'n trip te nooi nie, netnou val jy en ek is verantwoordelik vir jou of ek word gedagvaar

ns. dis tong-in-die-kies, maar waar trek mens die streep?
Jy ry in elkgeval te stadig vir my .....  :imaposer:  :imaposer:  :imaposer:



Nou toe manne en mandinne - ek tree uit !!!
Mission Accomplished  :thumleft:

Laat elkeen val waar hy wil ..... !!!!
 ;D  :biggrin:  ;D
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: laurika on March 30, 2011, 07:49:41 pm
Hehe nou dat ek vir Heimer en Freak moeg gemaak het wil ek graag vir Bradleys dankie se^ :

Almal weet miskien nie maar Bradleys is 'n baie bekwame para-medic met baie ondervinding van motorfiets ongelukke, hy was al die medic by 14 Desert Runs , hy het al met verskei gebreekde bene gewerk  , insluitende femurs en selfs gebreekde nekke . Hy het presies geweet wat om te doen met Charl , pasient stabiliseer, hart en pols gemeet, hy het die femur breek korrek gediagnoseer, korrekte en sterk pyn medisyne gegee,  en het ook die groot moontllikheid geweet van murg in sy bloed en moontlik longe kon lek ,  en dat vir die rede dat Charl nie in 'n back -up voertuig kom weggeneem word nie. Hy moes met ambulaans wat suurstof ens het geneem word. So niemand se^ dat selfs die hoogste gekwalifeseerde doktor meer as Bradleys kon gedoen het nie op die toneel en sonder 'n ambulans nie . En ek wil ook net hierby die geleentheid neem om vir Bradleys dankie te se^ vir wat hy met Charl en sy ander 4/5 patiente van die dag gedoen het met medisyne wat hy met sy eie geld gekoop het . Thanks Bradleys  :thumleft:


Rynet : vir die Tert Toer, sal ons die hunkieste paramedic saamvat...sy naam is Tony....ons sal sy vergoeding nog moet uitsorteer....biere of drukkies.... >:D

 :biggrin:  maar moet se^ Bradleys is self nogal sag op die oe  :biggrin:
ooh a sawwe man......mooi was nog nooit leilik nie...... ::)
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: Trippple XC on March 30, 2011, 09:03:42 pm
Ons praat weer as ek jou in die stof optel - jy sal bid vir `n ambulans!!!
Dink bietjie realisties, tot die manne in die Dakar val hulle vrek -  jy is seker BETER!!!!  >:D  >:D

Hmmm, ek dog die Dakar is 'n wedren?  ???

Se my Karoodonkie, as jy met jou bike langpad ry, vat jy mediese backup saam? Ek is seker sommige ouens is deur trauma die naweek. Maar ons moet 'n tree teruggee en 'n bietjie nugter daaroor dink.



Ag julle hou net van stry en bragg oor joe tough julle is , maar julle weet Karoodonkie is reg , as daar 120 plus bikers bymekaar is sonder 'n telefoon dan is die beslis 'n resep vir moeilikheid, en dit is heeltemal anders as wat dit net jy en jou buddies op 'n ride is.  So hou nou op om cowboys te speel en dink realisties  :deal: ;)

Ek dink by die volgende Bash sal die organiseerders 'n telefoon reel en met die naaste hospitaal reel dat hulle ten minste net weet van die Bash en weet hoe om by die Bash uit te kom  , dit sal stupid wees om dit nie te doen nie.
We vote you to be in charge of it  :thumleft:
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: Trippple XC on March 30, 2011, 09:08:08 pm
Hehe nou dat ek vir Heimer en Freak moeg gemaak het wil ek graag vir Bradleys dankie se^ :

Almal weet miskien nie maar Bradleys is 'n baie bekwame para-medic met baie ondervinding van motorfiets ongelukke, hy was al die medic by 14 Desert Runs , hy het al met verskei gebreekde bene gewerk  , insluitende femurs en selfs gebreekde nekke . Hy het presies geweet wat om te doen met Charl , pasient stabiliseer, hart en pols gemeet, hy het die femur breek korrek gediagnoseer, korrekte en sterk pyn medisyne gegee,  en het ook die groot moontllikheid geweet van murg in sy bloed en moontlik longe kon lek ,  en dat vir die rede dat Charl nie in 'n back -up voertuig kom weggeneem word nie. Hy moes met ambulaans wat suurstof ens het geneem word. So niemand se^ dat selfs die hoogste gekwalifeseerde doktor meer as Bradleys kon gedoen het nie op die toneel en sonder 'n ambulans nie . En ek wil ook net hierby die geleentheid neem om vir Bradleys dankie te se^ vir wat hy met Charl en sy ander 4/5 patiente van die dag gedoen het met medisyne wat hy met sy eie geld gekoop het . Thanks Bradleys  :thumleft:


thank you apology is about ten posts to late
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: laurika on March 30, 2011, 09:09:10 pm
ai, almal is ietwat sensitief vandag.....more lyk dit als weer beter...ek dink ons sal dalk a voltydse terapeut ook op die bashes moet he........ :imaposer:
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: Fudmucker on March 30, 2011, 09:56:57 pm
ai, almal is ietwat sensitief vandag.....more lyk dit als weer beter...ek dink ons sal dalk a voltydse terapeut ook op die bashes moet he........ :imaposer:

'n Fisio-terapeut?  :D
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: laurika on March 30, 2011, 09:59:25 pm
ai, almal is ietwat sensitief vandag.....more lyk dit als weer beter...ek dink ons sal dalk a voltydse terapeut ook op die bashes moet he........ :imaposer:

'n Fisio-terapeut?  :D
nee, dit sal nie help met al die alkol in die lywe nie...
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: Jacko on March 30, 2011, 10:03:23 pm
ai, almal is ietwat sensitief vandag.....more lyk dit als weer beter...ek dink ons sal dalk a voltydse terapeut ook op die bashes moet he........ :imaposer:

'n Fisio-terapeut?  :D

Nee, 'n psigoterapeut.

Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: Rynet on March 30, 2011, 10:04:49 pm
Hehe nou dat ek vir Heimer en Freak moeg gemaak het wil ek graag vir Bradleys dankie se^ :

Almal weet miskien nie maar Bradleys is 'n baie bekwame para-medic met baie ondervinding van motorfiets ongelukke, hy was al die medic by 14 Desert Runs , hy het al met verskei gebreekde bene gewerk  , insluitende femurs en selfs gebreekde nekke . Hy het presies geweet wat om te doen met Charl , pasient stabiliseer, hart en pols gemeet, hy het die femur breek korrek gediagnoseer, korrekte en sterk pyn medisyne gegee,  en het ook die groot moontllikheid geweet van murg in sy bloed en moontlik longe kon lek ,  en dat vir die rede dat Charl nie in 'n back -up voertuig kom weggeneem word nie. Hy moes met ambulaans wat suurstof ens het geneem word. So niemand se^ dat selfs die hoogste gekwalifeseerde doktor meer as Bradleys kon gedoen het nie op die toneel en sonder 'n ambulans nie . En ek wil ook net hierby die geleentheid neem om vir Bradleys dankie te se^ vir wat hy met Charl en sy ander 4/5 patiente van die dag gedoen het met medisyne wat hy met sy eie geld gekoop het . Thanks Bradleys  :thumleft:


thank you apology is about ten posts to late

this is not an apology  ??? and I do not need to apologise. I dare you to find one negative thing I said about Bradleys . I will re -post my so-called offending post and then you tell me where I said anything bad about Bradleys , for whom I have the greatest respect for .
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: Rynet on March 30, 2011, 10:06:23 pm
No offence to anyone who was involved in organising the Bash but I think Karoodonkie has a very valid point.  I was supposed to leave Cape Town on Friday afternoon to come to the Bash,  but when my friend's condition worsened I got distracted and it got late, and I then decided to not leave Cape Town by myself at 18h30 .

This was a good decision BUT I was worried that my friends at the Bash would be worried about me and go and look for me.  I could not reach anyone at the Bash , including the owners , due to there being no reception.  I made over 10 telephone calls to neigbouring farms including the Tankwa National Park phones ,but there was no way of contacting anyone at the Bash. Fortunately my friends figured I would not ride in the dark. But it would have been a lot easier if I had a contact number , if one person at the Bash could have had a sat phone esp if I had ridden through and needed help in the middle of nowhere. In my case I have no moan (@ Freak :deal: ;)) but in Charl's case the situation was a lot more serious so I use my case merely to illustrate Karoodonkie's point .

Secondly no offence to anyone at the Bash but for a future Bash it would be a good idea to
find out before the time and put this on the main thread , which are the closest hospital to the Bash , the telephone numbers and the exact procedure to follow to get a seriously injured person to the nearest hospital in the quickest amount of time without stressing out the wives back in Cape Town .

I think Karoodonkie was a tad reactive when he made his point on the Charl thread, but essentially I agree with his points .

Having said that , I cannot compliment Piston Pete, Bradleys and the other back up drivers enough for everything that they did do at the Bash . I just think we can learn from Karoodonkie's very valid points.


BUMP
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: Rynet on March 30, 2011, 10:08:16 pm
Ons praat weer as ek jou in die stof optel - jy sal bid vir `n ambulans!!!
Dink bietjie realisties, tot die manne in die Dakar val hulle vrek -  jy is seker BETER!!!!  >:D  >:D

Hmmm, ek dog die Dakar is 'n wedren?  ???

Se my Karoodonkie, as jy met jou bike langpad ry, vat jy mediese backup saam? Ek is seker sommige ouens is deur trauma die naweek. Maar ons moet 'n tree teruggee en 'n bietjie nugter daaroor dink.



Ag julle hou net van stry en bragg oor joe tough julle is , maar julle weet Karoodonkie is reg , as daar 120 plus bikers bymekaar is sonder 'n telefoon dan is die beslis 'n resep vir moeilikheid, en dit is heeltemal anders as wat dit net jy en jou buddies op 'n ride is.  So hou nou op om cowboys te speel en dink realisties  :deal: ;)

Ek dink by die volgende Bash sal die organiseerders 'n telefoon reel en met die naaste hospitaal reel dat hulle ten minste net weet van die Bash en weet hoe om by die Bash uit te kom  , dit sal stupid wees om dit nie te doen nie.
We vote you to be in charge of it  :thumleft:

Yes with pleasure , at this rate it looks like I am the most sensible person on this thread :mwink: . And I will ask Karooodonkie to help me  ;) >:D
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: Firecoast on March 30, 2011, 10:09:25 pm
no disrespect to charly650 that is in hospital as i type this.... i really do hope he recovers fully and will be riding with us again shortly....

but sheesh people.... TTFU!!!!!! did we not all sign an indemnity form when we got there? are we not all responsible for our own actions?

we know what this hobby entails.... and well aware of the consequences....

no-one is to blame.... things, bad and good, happen all the time....

that's life!!!
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: Heimer on March 30, 2011, 10:42:14 pm
Could also be used for Africa Burn games, like that crazy armadillo car.
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: Andy660 on March 30, 2011, 10:54:21 pm
I will not let the organisers of a bash be responsible for my misfortune should /when it happens,all they are doing is giving us a destination and a chance to meet like minded adventure individuals a chance to meet.They help by provide us braai packs and bevies instead of us lugging everything with.
I for one enjoy solo as there is no pressure how long I take to get there and which route.(copy's of my routes at home with wife)
I sometimes have a geocamp and the guys must find me it is up to the individuals to look after themselves and their mates when in a group.if I had to organise medics ect I would also need the law with some of the dogs >:D
example
http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=28428.0

Agreed Drazil !

Shew , this was a long read !

Note to self ,
 Always have the PH no. of the nearest Emergency services in or around the provinces you intend riding through.
And have an ICE Sticker in your Wallet and another on your helmet.

After my accident in Anaysberg last year in June, as I was being re least from Tygerberg Hospital,I noticed my ICE sticker that was stuck on my helmet , stapled to the top of my file.
I was quite impressed that it had gone full circle , From my accident , to the helicopter , to the hospital and back into my hand,

(http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p131/hunday/accidents/crash12.jpg)

I`m busy making myself and my riding buddies another temp let up presently.

But on your own phones , who actualy has the ph no. of the emergency services in there area ?
I feel that if you go riding with your mates , you are respossible for your self first and should feel resposible for them too.
So get the emergency services no. and put it on your phone.

As for Bradley`s " YOU ROCK "

He has helped me through 2 serious accidents over the past few years and is very controlled and organized on an accident scene

And many thanks to Tuareg for saving my bacon last year.

Anybody with some contacts for Voltarin Ampules and Med kit replenishments , please pm Bradleys , I think its high tim we chip in , me incl.

http://www.facebook.com/pages/ICE-In-Case-of-Emergency/154187001265832?sk=app_2309869772
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: Andy660 on March 30, 2011, 11:52:31 pm
FOUND THIS ON THE NET

What to do next

Phone ER24 on 084 124

084 124 is the national number which will connect you with ER24’s Contact Centre.
It is an emergency line where a call taker will request the following information:
Your telephone number (to remain in contact with you should you be cut off)
Your location (street name and nearest cross road)
The details of what has happened, how many people are injured, whether there is e fire, etc.

This will allow the dispatcher to send the correct personnel from the closest area. In addition the call takers are able to give you telephonic advice as to what to do to help the injureed on the accident scene

Assisting the Injured

If you have a First Aid kit, take it out of your vehicle. Put on the rubber gloves that are inside the first aid kit.

Calm and reassure the people that have been involved in the accident. Make them aware you have called the emergency services and that help is on the way. This may be the only thing AND the most important thing you can do to help someone involved in an accident.

The most important principles when helping an accident victim are the following:
Safety – Do not attempt heroics which may potentially jeopardise your own safety. Your safety comes first, before that of the injured. You are of no use to anyone if you become injured while attempting to help others.
If there is any fire/ flames and you have a fire extinguisher, use it and direct the foam/ water at the base of the flames.
Do NOT move the patient or attempt to remove them from the vehicle UNLESS there is an immediate threat to life (e.g. the car is on fire and you are unable to extinguish it). There may be an underlying injury to the neck or spine and unnecessary movement could make this worse.
If the person is unconscious, open the mouth and check there is nothing inside causing obstruction.
Check if the person is breathing.
If the patient is breathing leave them in the position you find them and monitor them regularly.
If the patient is NOT breathing and you have been trained to do so, you may begin CPR and rescue breathing as necessary.
If a person is bleeding heavily from a wound, take any available material e.g. a t-shirt/ gauze from the first aid kit/ a towel/ a blanket/ etc, and place it over the open bleeding wound. Then press tightly applying direct pressure to the wound. Maintain that pressure until the emergency services arrive. Do not stop pressing to check if there is continued bleeding or to look at the wound. This procedure may save a persons life.
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: navigator on March 31, 2011, 10:41:55 am
I can offer a suggestion wrt contacts during the Bash - forgive if I state the obvious - i have read only a few pages of the fred

At RR everyone gets a landline number (ideally on the farm and even before you arrive) that is manned right through the day - this is on the programme and can be put into your cell but can also go on tank bag.

Depending on how far out the possible rides are - the para-medic can wait on the farm or ride out to where reception is available and wait there. Will then be contacted either directly or through the landline number at the base camp.

Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: Rynet on March 31, 2011, 12:02:31 pm
I can offer a suggestion wrt contacts during the Bash - forgive if I state the obvious - i have read only a few pages of the fred

At RR everyone gets a landline number (ideally on the farm and even before you arrive) that is manned right through the day - this is on the programme and can be put into your cell but can also go on tank bag.

Depending on how far out the possible rides are - the para-medic can wait on the farm or ride out to where reception is available and wait there. Will then be contacted either directly or through the landline number at the base camp.



Excellent idea Navigator  :thumleft:

PS  now they wil probably put me and my big mouth on telephone duty at the next Bash, while they go on the ride.  :imaposer:
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: Pistonpete on March 31, 2011, 12:03:36 pm
I can offer a suggestion wrt contacts during the Bash - forgive if I state the obvious - i have read only a few pages of the fred

At RR everyone gets a landline number (ideally on the farm and even before you arrive) that is manned right through the day - this is on the programme and can be put into your cell but can also go on tank bag.

Depending on how far out the possible rides are - the para-medic can wait on the farm or ride out to where reception is available and wait there. Will then be contacted either directly or through the landline number at the base camp.



Excellent idea Navigator  :thumleft:

PS  now they wil probably put me and my big mouth on telephone duty at the next Bash, while they go on the ride.  :imaposer:
:imaposer: :imaposer: :imaposer:
Don't go giving ideas now!  :laughing4:
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: Rynet on March 31, 2011, 12:43:32 pm
Fotos specially for Laurika . Yes Mooi was nog nooit lelik nie , here is a fotos of Bradleys  :thumleft:
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: Rynet on March 31, 2011, 12:45:22 pm
Oops Laurika I think I posted the wrong foto  :mwink: :P  , here is one of the real Bradleys together with our man Pete , nice one of both of them hey ?  :thumleft: :thumleft:  
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: Stoetbul on March 31, 2011, 02:17:19 pm
Rynet: BRADLEY'S like you've never seen him before.................... :peepwall: :peepwall:
(http://i985.photobucket.com/albums/ae333/andrevdm/naweek044.jpg)
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: Rynet on March 31, 2011, 02:25:45 pm
Rynet: BRADLEY'S like you've never seen him before.................... :peepwall: :peepwall:
(http://i985.photobucket.com/albums/ae333/andrevdm/naweek044.jpg)

 :laughing4: :laughing4: :laughing4:

That was at last year's WC Bash , but who was he cuddling , hehe was it WayneH? or Andy660 ?  :imaposer:
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: Heimer on March 31, 2011, 02:31:18 pm
:imaposer: :imaposer: :laughing4: :laughing4:
Iemand kry 'n inspuiting  :eek7:
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: Pote on March 31, 2011, 02:58:59 pm
:imaposer: :imaposer: :laughing4: :laughing4:
Iemand kry 'n inspuiting  :eek7:
ek dink die dosis is te "vlou"  :imaposer:
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: Stoetbul on March 31, 2011, 03:52:49 pm
Rynet: BRADLEY'S like you've never seen him before.................... :peepwall: :peepwall:
(http://i985.photobucket.com/albums/ae333/andrevdm/naweek044.jpg)

 :laughing4: :laughing4: :laughing4:

That was at last year's WC Bash , but who was he cuddling , hehe was it WayneH? or Andy660 ?  :imaposer:
He is actually the one being cuddled.......... By a certain Mr A.........W....... :peepwall:
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: Andy660 on March 31, 2011, 09:14:36 pm
AntonW  behind Bradley`s ,
and no , thats not me !
 I was in Hospital  while all this cuddling was going on !!!

Interesting though !!
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: Stoetbul on April 01, 2011, 08:59:38 am
AntonW  behind Bradley`s ,
and no , thats not me !
 I was in Hospital  while all this cuddling was going on !!!

Interesting though !!
2 Men with some very skilled horizontal abilities! :3some: :thumleft: :biggrin:
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: Wooly Bugger on April 01, 2011, 12:00:52 pm
.
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: Veldbrand on April 01, 2011, 01:15:09 pm
Wooly, it should read: "Services two/to Males" >:D
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: Pote on April 01, 2011, 07:29:30 pm
Wooly, it should read: "Services two/to Males" >:D
dit sou 3 gewees het maar Andy was ongelukkig nie beskikbaar nie >:D
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: Leftless on April 01, 2011, 08:10:35 pm
OK, two simple things I will change…

I’ll add some strategic rescue services to by base GPS map.  These will be included in all future published routes.

Include Metro Rescue contact details in published road book.  They have access to a high angle team that travel by 4x4 and trained to recover patients in precarious locations.  They further have access to all the other rescue centres in the Western Cape.


Metro Rescue (include high angle rescue) - 021 945 2473 / 3378
West Coast Rescue – 022 433 8700
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: Kola? on April 01, 2011, 11:21:02 pm
OK, two simple things I will change…

I’ll add some strategic rescue services to by base GPS map.  These will be included in all future published routes.

Include Metro Rescue contact details in published road book.  They have access to a high angle team that travel by 4x4 and trained to recover patients in precarious locations.  They further have access to all the other rescue centres in the Western Cape.


Metro Rescue (include high angle rescue) - 021 945 2473 / 3378
West Coast Rescue – 022 433 8700


If you add this to every riders preparedness to self rescue, this should be all that is required and should place no additional burden on event organizers who already have enough to worry about.

TTFU and prepare to look after yourself and your mates, problem solved.
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: Ganjora on April 02, 2011, 04:45:50 am
ha ha ha h ah ah ah ah aahaah ha haha

i read 'mental faculties' at bashes...

bashes are normally 'mental'.
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: edgy on April 02, 2011, 08:15:20 am
ha ha ha h ah ah ah ah aahaah ha haha

i read 'mental faculties' at bashes...

bashes are normally 'mental'.

.............but you aint at all of them! :laughing4:
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: Tonteldoos on April 02, 2011, 08:20:20 am
Some future considerations..

Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: 2StrokeDan on April 02, 2011, 06:47:02 pm
Daai groen waentjie sal nogal werk met n 990 voor hom ingespan. Die pasient sal dalk vanself regkom.
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: Adventurer on April 02, 2011, 06:53:57 pm
Daai groen waentjie sal nogal werk met n 990 voor hom ingespan. Die pasient sal dalk vanself regkomafbliksem.

Fixed.. :biggrin:
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: RobC on April 02, 2011, 07:04:03 pm
I am sure Groenie would love to tow that along! :mwink:
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: laurika on April 03, 2011, 09:53:20 am
Some future considerations..


this looks like malawi? once passed one of those on the road at night...i stopped and asked if i could help....took the patient in the landrover to the nearest hospital, which was just a room, 30 further along...it was a sick child....i heard a week later the child had passed away...we are so spoilt....
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: Leftless on April 03, 2011, 01:04:11 pm

So …

Watty publishes his rides and relevant info quite well (see EC Bash).  Would it then be advisable to start any bash / gathering / outride thread something like this?  This is a bit heavy…

Stolen from other WD’s, but contains everything you might want to say – you cannot be told that you did not warn anybody or that they did not know what to bring or might need.


2011 TEMPLATE Wild Dog Bash / Outride – Official Thread 

Date: Weekend of 1date, 2date Month 2011.

Venue:  Campsite Name

GPS: (Lat/Lon hddd° mm' ss.s" WGS84)  33° 00' 00.0" S  24° 00' 00.0" E   


Place a small description of the venue and scenery in the area that will be used.  Some info on the location and how to get there or closest town could be added here too.  This will help identify the area to riders and give them an understanding of where it is and what to expect.

Costs:  R000

Closing date for payments: Day, date 2011 @ 24h00

__________________________________________________________

Disclaimer: Dual-sport motorcycling inherently involves dangerous activities.  Anyone who submits their name for inclusion on the Official Attendance List, and subsequently attends the Bash, do so voluntary and acknowledge that they accept the risks as their own free choice.

The routes will be available for use at own risk! The sweepers will sweep the planned route in the direction it was planned.
__________________________________________________________


Important information
•   Nearest medical doctor – Town Name.  Approximately 000Km by gravel road
•   Nearest hospital – Town Name.  Tel. 000-000-0000   Ambulance 000-000-0000, if no reply: 000-000-0000
•   Metro Rescue (include high angle rescue) - 021 945 2473 / 3378
•   Nearest fuel - Town Name.  Approximately 000Km by gravel road
•   Nearest shops - Town Name.
•   A 4x4 bakkie and trailer will be on-site as support/recovery vehicle.
•   Outride routes – Outride in the form of 4x4 trails are provided.
•   Cell phone reception - There is no cell phone reception.
•   Satellite phone/s – NO / ONE / TWO satellite phones will be on site for emergency support purposes.  0099 00-000-0000 & 0099 00-000-0000
•   In case of emergencies only, a land line is available at the Camp Site – 000-000-0000.
•   The camp provide ablution facilities as well as hot solar / gas / donkey showers
•   Please bring your own camping equipment, tent, mattress, sleeping bag, etc.
•   Please bring your own eating tools, plates and a mug.
•   As the temperature varies greatly in the area, please bring sufficient warm cloths to cater for temperatures as low as 0deg C.  Check the local weather forecast before leaving home.
•   You will be able to buy fuel (0000 litres will be available) at the venue - to be sold in 5l units @ R00 to cover costs.

Note:  It is a request from the owner that persons attending the Bash must please respect the environment and endeavour not harm it in any way.  Please stick to existing tracks and do not deviate from the planned route.

Interested?
Please read “Some General DS Riding Info” posted below,
then add your name to list .... 




Some General DS Riding Info -

Essential stuff you might consider to drag along on any long trip. 

•  Bike & Riding Related Equipment:
Serviceable Motor Cycle.
Be sure to check out your bike properly before departure or have your agent do so.
Check your tyres and be sure that those selected will last the duration of the event and the commute there and back.
A special check should be done with regards to your brake pads as these are often neglected and may not last the distance.

•   Off-road Boots
On the terrain we ride, having a bike fall on your foot or just putting it out in a slide as a corrective action could break your ankle if not properly protected. 
If purchasing new be sure to “walk in” or “ride in” well before departure date as you will be spending a lot of time in these and if you are only just getting used to them there is little relief when far away from home with ill-fitting boots.
It is a good idea to take a super absorbent cloth as these are a great help when trying to dry the inside of a boot or sock quickly.

•   Proper protective clothing
Riding gear should be well thought out as you will experience significant variations in temperature, including the possibility of rain. The best kit allows you to vent when hot and close when cold.
In addition the kit you choose should have full padding and backboard inserts.

•  Helmet
A decent helmet will save your like in a fall.  The average lifespan of a helmet is around four years as the sun along with small bumps degrades the integrity of the outer structure.  The inner also degrades and hardens over time.  It is this inner lining (airbag for your head) that actually absorbs the shock on impact.

•   Neck Brace
While a good helmet will keep the grey matter intact and functional it is equally important to protect your neck.  A neck brace such as a Leatt Brace will prevent you from breaking your neck or sever nerves by overextending your neck in an accident.

•  Gloves
It is best to take at least two sets of gloves.
Working gloves – these are for dry technical work with maximum feel for the controls.
Warm gloves – for use in dry early morning and long cold distance conditions.
Warm waterproof gloves – obviously these could replace the former and are used for the same conditions but include wet conditions.

•   Kriega R3 Hydapack (3 ltr)
The Hydrapack is not only an excellent way of ensuring that you hydrate regularly as it is convenient but also gives excellent spinal cushioning if a fall should occur. Obviously a water bottle is an option but experience has shown that the former is the preferable. 

•   Emergency Information (ICE Tag)
Your details.
DoB or ID.
Blood group.
Medical aid scheme Name and Number with air ambulance call info.
Next of kin with two telephone numbers.

Make note of the following Metro Rescue numbers – they have contact info of all the medical facilities in and around the Western Cape.  Check the numbers of specific medical services if you travel in any given area on a regular basis.
Metro Rescue (include high angle rescue) - 021 945 2473 / 3378.
West Coast Rescue – 022 433 8700.

•   Tire repair kit
Tubeless after-market are ideal for the non tubed bikes however, a nice touch is to add a right angle tap for discharging CO² bombs. This can be obtained from cycle shops.
Extra bombs.
Extra inserts.
Larger tube of vulcanizing solvent.
Spare tube for tubed bikes.
Hand or foot pump (The best fall back device as it always delivers).
Tyre pressure gauge.
Compressor – Not essential but a nice to have (For me essential).
I normally fit a heavy duty tubes on me bike and carry a light duty tube as spares.  This gives me best tube while riding and smaller space requirement to carry a spare.  Call it the emergency small form factor spare fore bikes.

•   Tow rope.
This is one of the most useful must-pack tool in a number of ways even when not towing i.e. extricating the bike from a difficult lie where picking it up from close is impossible.

•   First aid kit (this is mine – you might not need all the stuff)
I believe in carrying one good comprehensive kit at all times which includes: antihistamine, pain killers (Grandpa and others), bandages, muscle ointment, disinfectant, space blanket, burn ointment, plasters, condoms (multi purpose tool), sanitary pads (stops blood on deep wounds like you won’t believe), alcohol wipes, Volatern stickers, Volaren ampoules and syringes (3cc), epinephrine (for anaphylactic reaction) and syringes (0.5cc), Ventolin inhaler, Ceretide cortisone inhaler, etc.
This kit should be carried on your body while you are riding.

•   Tool Kit
My personal toolkit in its present form includes enough tools to do most roadside repairs and routine maintenance tasks, including removing both wheels. It is always advisable to work with your tool kit when working on the bike, in this way you learn if there are any shortages.
The entire kit is based on a 3/8” power handle
Here's what's in my kit:
•   Roll up tool pouch available or bum-bag from Kriega.co.za
•   A 3/8" Power bar
•   A 125mm - 3/8" drive extension
•   Allen wrenches in sizes: 1.5, 2, 2.5, 3, 4, 5, and 6mm 
•   Allen sockets in sizes: 7, 8, 9, and 10mm - 3/8" drive
•   Torx wrenches in sizes: T9, T10, T15, T20, T25, T27, T30, and T40
•   Torx sockets in sizes:  T40, T45, T50 and T55 - 3/8" drive
•   Torx socket in sizes:  E10 - 3/8" drive
•   Leatherman
•   Leatherman BIT set
•   Sparkplug tool - 3/8" drive
•   Valve key
•   Spare Valves
•   Right angle valve extention
•   Torch (LED has longer battery life)
•   Two 250mm tyre levers
•   One yellow dust cloth
•   Spare Clutch and Front Brake lever
•   20 x 100mm cable tie
•   20 x 200mm cable tie
•   1 small roll of Ductape
•   1 box liquid steel
•   1 set Q Bond
•   Extra puncture inserts
•   3 x Co2 bombs
•   Cloth / lappie (cleaning hands and laying out tools etc.)
•   Ziploc bags for stuff (it keeps out the dust and wet)

To this you could add any tool specific to your motorcycle.


Remember, YOU are responsible for your own safety and well-being.  

Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: 2StrokeDan on April 03, 2011, 05:58:27 pm
And where do you carry all these tools? In the groen waentjie?
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: Rynet on April 03, 2011, 06:06:55 pm
Thanks Leftless I like the Important information that you set out that the Bash Organisers can set out in their first post.  It makes it so much easier for everyone. My first thought was that we could leave out the DS information ,as it is obvious eg that one has to wear a good helmet , good boots etc and that we must take a tyre repair kit , and other tools , but on second thoughts there are always noobs who attend Bashes , and if it is stated at the beginning of a Bash invite then its done and they don't have to ask endless questions and be left in the dark , so it will help noobs ( and remind non-noobs) , and very importantly it will protect the organisers.

Nicely done Leftless, you have such a wealth of experience , thanks for putting it all together for our benefit.  :thumleft: :thumleft: :thumleft:
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: ThysBasson on April 03, 2011, 06:14:16 pm
Met die Hekpoort Ride het ek en Koos vd Heever sleg in die reen geval. Al wat ons by ons gehad het was, 'n pak cable ties, leatherman, sterk pynpille, selfone, 2 GPSse en water.

In ons situasie het al die items ons gehelp. My windshield was afgebreek, die cable ties het wondere verrig.
Koos het sy sleutelbeen gebreek, die pynpille was daar en ek het vir hom 'n sling met die cable ties gemaak.

Ons kon ons posisie deur bel na hulp.

'n Paar uur later was hy oppad hospitaal toe en ek is terug na die ander by die kamp plek.

So hou maar die paar goetjies altyd byderhand.

Al wat ons bietjie gepla het, was dat niemand na ons kom soek het nie.
Ons het hulle maar na so 2 ure laat weet dat ons ok is en hulp oppad is.
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: Leftless on April 03, 2011, 08:19:25 pm

Hey 2SD, I carry all that in my waist pack along with my medical kit.  If I fall off a mountain I need it with me, not on my bike.  My tools form part of my medical kit – especially the cable ties.

Rynet, the list is a deliberate overkill but rather say more and not have anyone tell you they didn’t know.  This list is not required at the rides but rather to ask were we draw the line?? What do we need to publish – most stuff listed is common sense to most of us and would be better listed somewhere else on the forum.  It should not be required to list all this at each ride planning post.

Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: 2StrokeDan on April 03, 2011, 08:27:21 pm
Maybe I should come see you about a waistpack like that.
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: Rynet on April 03, 2011, 08:44:39 pm

Hey 2SD, I carry all that in my waist pack along with my medical kit.  If I fall off a mountain I need it with me, not on my bike.  My tools form part of my medical kit – especially the cable ties.

Rynet, the list is a deliberate overkill but rather say more and not have anyone tell you they didn’t know.  This list is not required at the rides but rather to ask were we draw the line?? What do we need to publish – most stuff listed is common sense to most of us and would be better listed somewhere else on the forum.  It should not be required to list all this at each ride planning post.



I agree , But how harmfull is it to put it on the start of every Bash thread.  Because as a recent Noob myself there are so many threads about tools and first aid one does not find the time to study all of them, and your perfectly good summary is excellent . For example I see that my First aid lacks Voltaren injections ,  although I have strong painkillers, and my tool kit lacks a spare clutch and brake lever. And I dont yet have every tool . So every time one reads your list it reinforces the message. You could put a link on the Bash thead but would anyone read it ?

I also carry my tools ( such as they are ) , my tyre repair kit and my medicine kit with me every day to work and back also, but for the rides I think I must also get one of your Kriega waist bags. They have two parts , one for medical and one for tools.  At the CABC in 2009 I was very impressed at how you handled the medical and tool related quizz which was part of the Skill Challenge finals . Having it on your waist makes the bike lighter and as you say is real handy if you fall away from the bike.  But do you carry all those tools in the waist bag or only some of them ? The medical stuff is not heavy but the tools are ?

Thanks again LL  :thumleft: :thumleft:
Title: Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
Post by: IDR on April 04, 2011, 12:32:07 am
How do you feel carrying all that weight on your person? Don't you think it might be a little too bulky? Do you think perhaps that it could be possible that the size and weight of it might injure you quite badly in an off?

I try to carry as little as possible on my person while riding, I expect a cellphone (nevermind a tyre lever) in the side during a hard fall could be quite detrimental to your health.