Wild Dog Adventure Riding

General => General Bike Related Banter => Topic started by: terminator1 on May 03, 2011, 04:13:51 pm

Title: *Are DS Events Cool? - Your 2 cents please...*
Post by: terminator1 on May 03, 2011, 04:13:51 pm
What would you want and pay for in an event like the Rallye Raid?

It started 5 years ago as the KTM Rallye Raid, and 2 years ago opened to all brands. The event is basically an offroad long weekend with three routes (tough, medium and easier) catering for DS bikes. The riding venues are SPECTACULAR.

Since 2007, the rides have become more technical over the years. The event venue has ranged from War Trail in the Lesotho foothills to Thomas River, and Catberg area. It costs around R3k to attend, for which you get food, rides, entertainment (not this year) and an opportunity to mingle with riding legends (also not this year)

What do you think the future of this sort of event holds, and what are your thoughts on cost, venue, expectations, entertainment, riding terrain, etcv etc.

I ask this because numbers have steadily dropped from around 300 (?) to just 127 this year.

Title: Re: *Your 2 cents please...*
Post by: Snafu on May 03, 2011, 04:22:28 pm
I can do the riding bit with my mates, but they are stuckup :) so I go mingle at bashes. That is all i need, no Rally Raid or GS challenge or whatever required.
Title: Re: *Are DS Events Cool? - Your 2 cents please...*
Post by: Tonteldoos on May 03, 2011, 10:40:04 pm
Boils down to value or perceived value for money.
Are the organisers providing you with a "special" experience / service / advice / backup / Accommodation catering etc.

Compared to the Annual bash... I prefer the WD bashes only have to face the ugly farker for 2-3 days tops..  :biggrin:
Title: Re: *Are DS Events Cool? - Your 2 cents please...*
Post by: Battlestar on May 04, 2011, 07:36:15 am
For me often the entry fee is a put off. I mean if you think of it R3000 is actually going to end up being R6000 and rest. Why you ask? well by the time you have paid for fuel,food enroute to the destination maybe a new tyre before you leave it all starts to add up pretty quick. IHMO for the kind of money you pay to attend these events you could go away and ride with 2 or three mates for a week or more and have an epic time for similer or less money. Also there is no preassure to be somewhere at a specific time etc etc. My 2 cents but R3000 is alot of money to go camping for a couple days with a few meals thrown in and the same goes for the BMW events especially the ECO!

Sorry to answer your question yes they are cool but IMO not really worth the money you pay to enter them
Title: Re: *Are DS Events Cool? - Your 2 cents please...*
Post by: terminator1 on May 04, 2011, 08:31:25 am
you are quite right B/star. Actually its 3k to enter, 1.5k for gas, 1k for a knobbly, 1k for food/drinks, 2k to repair bike, 1k for bike service after the raid. Total for me this year: 9.5k  :eek7: :o
Title: Re: *Are DS Events Cool? - Your 2 cents please...*
Post by: krister on May 04, 2011, 08:42:32 am
For me often the entry fee is a put off. I mean if you think of it R3000 is actually going to end up being R6000 and rest. Why you ask? well by the time you have paid for fuel,food enroute to the destination maybe a new tyre before you leave it all starts to add up pretty quick. IHMO for the kind of money you pay to attend these events you could go away and ride with 2 or three mates for a week or more and have an epic time for similer or less money. Also there is no preassure to be somewhere at a specific time etc etc. My 2 cents but R3000 is alot of money to go camping for a couple days with a few meals thrown in and the same goes for the BMW events especially the ECO!

Sorry to answer your question yes they are cool but IMO not really worth the money you pay to enter them

+1.   :thumleft:
Title: Re: *Are DS Events Cool? - Your 2 cents please...*
Post by: Watty on May 04, 2011, 10:28:57 am
DS events like the Rallye Raid and the BMW GS Challenge are in my option commercially organised events, hence the apparent high fees.  The organisers' main aim is to show a profit after the event.

Whereas the Wild Dog Bashes, such as the EC WD Bash in two weeks time is organised purely as a non-profit thing, and the emphasize is rather placed on giving good quality DS entertainment and excitement at the best possible value for money.  Having successfully organised 3 past bashes here in the ECape, I can ensure you the WD bash events are more rewarding in the sense of forming friendships, bonding around a camp-fire somewhere in the bush, and enjoying a shared passion, namely adventure motorcycling - all done at the participant's own pace and time-scale.  And the number of participants indicate the success of a bash, in 2008 there were 74 participants, in 2009 there were 114.  At the moment the forthcoming 2011 bash has 91 names on the list.  Something must be right and to the liking of individuals that make them return each year!

I can assure you there are no financial gain to be made setting up and running an EC WD Bash (as proof - simply compare the asking fees of both types of events, and what you actually get for your money!)  Without going into any details,  the EC WD Bash organisers have in the past even been forced to subsidised the overall costs from personal funds - showing the level of commitment and the "love of the sport". 

So to answer your question.  Yes, IMHO DS Events are cool, provided they are not handicapped by commercialism.
Title: Re: *Are DS Events Cool? - Your 2 cents please...*
Post by: navigator on May 04, 2011, 10:44:11 am
What makesit a bargain in my book is the fact that we got to ride on (mega scenic) private property on marked routes (expensive exercise) with basic back up en-route at the tougher spots.

I cant put a price on that.

The RR is ready for a make over and I believe it is going to happen.

We were spoilt by the involvement of KTM SA in the first three RR's - I am sure 2012 will be new and memorable.
Title: Re: *Are DS Events Cool? - Your 2 cents please...*
Post by: cloudgazer on May 04, 2011, 10:45:12 am
The idea of a DS event is cool, but in reality they're not that great .
 I don't like riding with hundreds of other people.
I don't like the 'organized' side of things - set meal times, set routes, etc.
Kinda defeats the purpose of getting away from it all on my bike.
Title: Re: *Are DS Events Cool? - Your 2 cents please...*
Post by: IceCreamMan on May 04, 2011, 10:48:36 am
i prefer going on toer with a couple of close buds .... 3 clip buys me nigh on a week in moz or bots ....

Title: Re: *Are DS Events Cool? - Your 2 cents please...*
Post by: Pistonpete on May 04, 2011, 10:52:15 am
I would encourage a degree of 'commercialism' as long as it benefits the riders. Like having a dealer/workshop or two present to sort out mechanical issues as well as forum vendors providing kit on site. Let the guys advertise & sell stuff....its cool.

An idea i'm interested in...depending on location...is getting a few food vendors in to do the catering. At the Springbok Rally they had some really good inexpensive chuck wagons supplying wholesome chow morning day & night. This would be dependant upon numbers for it to be financially viable for the food vendor. The nice thing is you get to focus on drinking & chatting to your mates..... ;D

....and we can still make big fires... O0

What does the market want:
Balls to the wall DS riding
Enduro orientated
DS riding with some tech
Scenic tour with some tech
?

All events seem to be mutating to what an organisor thinks the riders want...
Title: Re: *Are DS Events Cool? - Your 2 cents please...*
Post by: terminator1 on May 04, 2011, 11:16:49 am

What does the market want:
Balls to the wall DS riding
Enduro orientated
DS riding with some tech
Scenic tour with some tech
?

I dunno Pete. I would imagine different folks want different events. I think all of them are cool. I'd certainly be interested in balls2wall DS (like Rallye Raid) and an enduro weekend would be AWESOME.

Mike tried to include "semi enduro" bikes 450 and above for route 1, which was basically an enduro track, un-rideable with bigger DS bikes, but there were only 6 takers.

As for commercialism, I think if you provide 3k worth of event, people would come. Perhaps this year the bucks have dried up for a lot of people, and mthere were aslso other things happening on that weekend.

For my money, I want excellent, challenging riding (tick), excellent venue (tick), excellent entertainment (no tick this year), excellent backup medics, rescue, mechanics and tyre dealers (no tick thjis year) and perhaps something different like the skills display of top riders (no tick this year)

There is no single event which will cater for everyone, and The Rallye Raid is not for the faint-hearted. Your bike WILL also get damaged.
Title: Re: *Are DS Events Cool? - Your 2 cents please...*
Post by: terminator1 on May 04, 2011, 11:18:59 am
Forgot to add...I haven't been to a bash yet (going to EC this yr), but I would imagine they are more about meeting and greeting than the riding?
Title: Re: *Are DS Events Cool? - Your 2 cents please...*
Post by: GlenInk on May 04, 2011, 11:29:07 am
Forgot to add...I haven't been to a bash yet (going to EC this yr), but I would imagine they are more about meeting and greeting than the riding?

Meet, greet, drink, eat, sleep, ride, repeat, go home.

Rallye Raid in you words will damage your bike. Bashes are not there for  damaging bikes. Its a social with rides thrown in.
Title: Re: *Are DS Events Cool? - Your 2 cents please...*
Post by: ETS on May 04, 2011, 11:33:04 am
I very much enjoyed Rallye Raid last year, but the route marking was f.. up by the locals. We ended up doing less than half the total routes. The venue and the party is/was fantastic......
Title: Re: *Are DS Events Cool? - Your 2 cents please...*
Post by: terminator1 on May 04, 2011, 11:33:38 am
I very much enjoyed Rallye Raid last year, but the route marking was f.. up by the locals. We ended up doing less than half the total routes. The venue and the party is/was fantastic......

This year the marking was perfect  :thumleft:
Title: Re: *Are DS Events Cool? - Your 2 cents please...*
Post by: Billbob on May 04, 2011, 02:47:56 pm
I think these events have passed their sell by date. The radical drop off in attendance this year is most probably more as a result of the economic situation, next year will most probably show an increase on this year but I doubt that it will go back to the sort of numbers experienced a few years ago. That is if it is kept in it's present format.
Title: Re: *Are DS Events Cool? - Your 2 cents please...*
Post by: RobC on May 04, 2011, 02:56:59 pm
I can go on a very long trip with R3000 thanks... :mwink:
Title: Re: *Are DS Events Cool? - Your 2 cents please...*
Post by: LuckyStriker on May 04, 2011, 03:05:41 pm
DS events like the Rallye Raid and the BMW GS Challenge are in my option commercially organised events, hence the apparent high fees.  The organisers' main aim is to show a profit after the event.

I can't speak for the Rallye Raid but it is well known that the GS Challenge was run at an enormous loss since its inception.
I think it was thought that the losses could be absorbed by BMW until it turned a profit or broke even but in the end it was just not worth continuing with it. That and the fact that people were dying or injuring themselves every year.
Title: Re: *Are DS Events Cool? - Your 2 cents please...*
Post by: navigator on May 04, 2011, 04:59:43 pm
I can go on a very long trip with R3000 thanks... :mwink:

Not where we were riding Rob............... :mwink: :mwink: :mwink:
Title: Re: *Are DS Events Cool? - Your 2 cents please...*
Post by: Pistonpete on May 04, 2011, 05:23:01 pm

What does the market want:
Balls to the wall DS riding
Enduro orientated
DS riding with some tech
Scenic tour with some tech
?

I dunno Pete. I would imagine different folks want different events. I think all of them are cool. I'd certainly be interested in balls2wall DS (like Rallye Raid) and an enduro weekend would be AWESOME.

Mike tried to include "semi enduro" bikes 450 and above for route 1, which was basically an enduro track, un-rideable with bigger DS bikes, but there were only 6 takers.

As for commercialism, I think if you provide 3k worth of event, people would come. Perhaps this year the bucks have dried up for a lot of people, and mthere were aslso other things happening on that weekend.

For my money, I want excellent, challenging riding (tick), excellent venue (tick), excellent entertainment (no tick this year), excellent backup medics, rescue, mechanics and tyre dealers (no tick thjis year) and perhaps something different like the skills display of top riders (no tick this year)

There is no single event which will cater for everyone, and The Rallye Raid is not for the faint-hearted. Your bike WILL also get damaged.
Its become clear even from KTM Cape Towns awesome RAW weekend that you cannot mix the two. You are either appealing to the DS riders or going for Enduro Dakar wannabees.....they are both cool but dont work together. The only saving grace of the commercial events is the medical backup. However....with the appropriate plan in place most venues do not need a chopper on hand.

The WC Bashes are about the ride suggested in the venue environs...besides how interesting you want to make it there & back. So if you are pressed for time then at least you get a cool ride on the day. We also make it over a weekend & are thoughtfull of CC size, leave & the timing in getting there for the boys. Considerate hey... ;D
But then you must come to a WC Bash & see for yourself... 8)

DS events like the Rallye Raid and the BMW GS Challenge are in my option commercially organised events, hence the apparent high fees.  The organisers' main aim is to show a profit after the event.

I can't speak for the Rallye Raid but it is well known that the GS Challenge was run at an enormous loss since its inception.
I think it was thought that the losses could be absorbed by BMW until it turned a profit or broke even but in the end it was just not worth continuing with it. That and the fact that people were dying or injuring themselves every year.

This is how the BMW Club in CT at Nelsons Creek lost money...lots of it. To much pizzaz...thinking everyone will flock because of all the added attractions...bring the famdamily...dance the night away.... ::)
A comittee of a dozen folk all trying to outdo each other....and they had dozens of expensive Golf Shirts left over.
My heart went out to them because they were going flat out.....but in the wrong direction....keep it simple! I really hope they revive it & get it going again... 8)
And the bottom line is that no matter how much money an individual has when they climb on the boney they want to go cheap! ;)
m2c

Next year however we do the same venue at Stonehenge but with a different suggested outride..... :drif: :drif: :drif:
Title: Re: *Are DS Events Cool? - Your 2 cents please...*
Post by: navigator on May 05, 2011, 04:12:03 pm
I would encourage a degree of 'commercialism' as long as it benefits the riders. Like having a dealer/workshop or two present to sort out mechanical issues as well as forum vendors providing kit on site. Let the guys advertise & sell stuff....its cool.

An idea i'm interested in...depending on location...is getting a few food vendors in to do the catering. At the Springbok Rally they had some really good inexpensive chuck wagons supplying wholesome chow morning day & night. This would be dependant upon numbers for it to be financially viable for the food vendor. The nice thing is you get to focus on drinking & chatting to your mates..... ;D

....and we can still make big fires... O0

What does the market want:
Balls to the wall DS riding
Enduro orientated
DS riding with some tech
Scenic tour with some tech
?

All events seem to be mutating to what an organisor thinks the riders want...


The one thing that is under reported ito of the RR is the great home cooked food done by the local farming community - great great meals do make an event like a bash even better - if you can dish up and eat it is much better than trying to braai in an intoxicated state :laughing4: :laughing4:
Title: Re: *Are DS Events Cool? - Your 2 cents please...*
Post by: navigator on May 05, 2011, 04:14:43 pm
The idea of a DS event is cool, but in reality they're not that great .
 I don't like riding with hundreds of other people.
I don't like the 'organized' side of things - set meal times, set routes, etc.
Kinda defeats the purpose of getting away from it all on my bike.

I hear you CG - the same here.

The beauty of the RR is that you are with your 2 or 3 mates the whole day - on your own - unless off course there is a traffic jam of sorts at a river crossing or such like.

But one needs the number at those tough spots.

For the rest it is basically with your mates all the way
Title: Re: *Are DS Events Cool? - Your 2 cents please...*
Post by: Pistonpete on May 05, 2011, 04:16:28 pm
I would encourage a degree of 'commercialism' as long as it benefits the riders. Like having a dealer/workshop or two present to sort out mechanical issues as well as forum vendors providing kit on site. Let the guys advertise & sell stuff....its cool.

An idea i'm interested in...depending on location...is getting a few food vendors in to do the catering. At the Springbok Rally they had some really good inexpensive chuck wagons supplying wholesome chow morning day & night. This would be dependant upon numbers for it to be financially viable for the food vendor. The nice thing is you get to focus on drinking & chatting to your mates..... ;D

....and we can still make big fires... O0

What does the market want:
Balls to the wall DS riding
Enduro orientated
DS riding with some tech
Scenic tour with some tech
?

All events seem to be mutating to what an organisor thinks the riders want...


The one thing that is under reported ito of the RR is the great home cooked food done by the local farming community - great great meals do make an event like a bash even better - if you can dish up and eat it is much better than trying to braai in an intoxicated state :laughing4: :laughing4:
Boet....you need to get out more.... ;D

Let the local pozzie rather cater a braai for you...hulle verstaan die goet! :thumleft:

I have never had a problem braaing intoxicated...i either don't eat or hand over to the bravest.... :laughing4:
Title: Re: *Are DS Events Cool? - Your 2 cents please...*
Post by: Sithe on May 05, 2011, 05:16:44 pm
I don't know if you are asking specifically about KTM RR ... but I was at the BMW Fest and there were close to 700 people there.

Next year they are talking about getting it to 1000. My two cents ... big thumbs up to DS events.
Title: Re: *Are DS Events Cool? - Your 2 cents please...*
Post by: Pistonpete on May 05, 2011, 05:23:56 pm
I don't know if you are asking specifically about KTM RR ... but I was at the BMW Fest and there were close to 700 people there.

Next year they are talking about getting it to 1000. My two cents ... big thumbs up to DS events.
Shesha....the emphasis is on dirt & getting dirty....the GS Eco is well known for the tar routes unfortunately. That's the way they roll. Big numbers do not impress me....its about the qualities within the dirt rider that do.. :thumleft:
I'm happy for the commercially sponsored events. They certainly have a place & all the best for them. In fact i'm sorry i missed Africa Bike Week & popping into Oudshoorn... >:D It was on the bucket list over Easter but the bucket ran dry!  ;D
Title: Re: *Are DS Events Cool? - Your 2 cents please...*
Post by: Rocstompa on May 05, 2011, 06:55:09 pm
From a first time Rallye Raid'er I had a great time, three of us traveled up from PE using all the dirt roads we could find and ended up only riding to Hogsback on tar ,unfortunately tar conquered on the way back.

It's all about the experience, I met great people that I would perhaps never have met before and also saw a lot on the country side that I would also never had seen before. It was never on my wishlist to ride past Tiffendell or along the Lesotho border or through some of the smaller EC towns.

My 2c is that I think they have to change venues yearly to prevent the numbers dropping. The same as they do for local bashes.How many people would keep coming year after year to the same venue?
Title: Re: *Are DS Events Cool? - Your 2 cents please...*
Post by: Pistonpete on May 05, 2011, 08:26:48 pm
From a first time Rallye Raid'er I had a great time, three of us traveled up from PE using all the dirt roads we could find and ended up only riding to Hogsback on tar ,unfortunately tar conquered on the way back.

It's all about the experience, I met great people that I would perhaps never have met before and also saw a lot on the country side that I would also never had seen before. It was never on my wishlist to ride past Tiffendell or along the Lesotho border or through some of the smaller EC towns.

My 2c is that I think they have to change venues yearly to prevent the numbers dropping. The same as they do for local bashes.How many people would keep coming year after year to the same venue?
That depends upon the location of the venue & its coolness factor...one can run an event more than once at a given location.
Yes enthusiasm will run dry if its the same environs year after year. You hit the nail on head there. EC is like a magnet for Red Cherries endevours... ;)
You gotta move it around a little. Its the only way to change factors that affect attendance. You have to be fair as possible to all for rider logistics :thumleft:
Title: Re: *Are DS Events Cool? - Your 2 cents please...*
Post by: terminator1 on May 06, 2011, 09:08:16 am
To me camping in minus 9 degrees is the biggest turn-off. Not enough to keep me away, but pretty kark.

Perhaps the stay aways are all pussies?