Wild Dog Adventure Riding

General => About South Africa... => Interesting Places => Topic started by: Trailrider on June 06, 2007, 09:39:19 am

Title: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: Trailrider on June 06, 2007, 09:39:19 am
This is just a heads up for riders planning to visit the Hell.

Bikes and Quads are not allowed anymore.  :(  Quads will never ever be allowed again. Bikes need prior permission.

Please call 023 5411 259 to arrange permission (which might or might not be given) or you will be turned around at the entrance regardless of weather conditions or time of day.
Title: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: Ama ride ride on June 06, 2007, 09:40:48 am
WTF??????? :evil:
Title: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: Captain Zef on June 06, 2007, 10:02:59 am
Trailrider is there a sign that says: "Private property" on that road.

As far as i know that is a public road and my bike is fully roadworthy and is licenced no motherf*cker is gonna tell me i can't ride there.

Only that last part where the restuarant is, is private property. They can stick there food upwards. I'll take my own.
Title: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: Captain Zef on June 06, 2007, 10:10:27 am
Whos gonna catch me the hell police.  :lol:
Title: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: Hermanator on June 06, 2007, 10:14:42 am
This is shite news!

I've been gearing myself up for a ride taking along all my noobie buddies.

Can someone please tell me what the distance is from Cape Town. I think, if I;m not mistaken is that we ride the Swartberg Pass and then head down into The Hell from there.

So, is this possible as a day ride, leaving early and returning late or is it absolutely, a weekender and overnight. If an overnight, what facilities exist and where - as my GPS does not list a place called HELL!

Thanks, and hope I've not hijacked the tread.

Cheers

Lawrence
Title: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: Captain Zef on June 06, 2007, 10:22:52 am
Its called Gamkas kloof.

No you won't make it from Cape Town into hell and back.

You will have to sleep over in Oudtshoorn.

There is no facilities in hell. Only camping spots and bathrooms.
Title: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: JourneyMan on June 06, 2007, 10:28:40 am
The Hell/Gamkas is part of the Swartberg Nature Reserve.

Not a public road then is it? :?
Title: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: Captain Zef on June 06, 2007, 10:38:13 am
Quote from: "JourneyMan"
The Hell/Gamkas is part of the Swartberg Nature Reserve.

Not a public road then is it? :?


Nope i'm sure its a public road. No signs or fences.
Title: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: JourneyMan on June 06, 2007, 10:42:57 am
If it's a proclaimed nature reserve/area, I think other rules are applicable regarding the roads.

Shooting in the dark here. :wink:
Title: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: IceCreamMan on June 06, 2007, 10:46:33 am
Quote from: "Captain Slow"
Its called Gamkas kloof.

No you won't make it from Cape Town into hell and back.

You will have to sleep over in Oudtshoorn.

There is no facilities in hell. Only camping spots and bathrooms.


There are dorm type rooms available ,will need to check for availability though.

real sad if no bikes allowed in there though , one of the highlights of my ds riding was a ride to hell an back
Title: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: GS-holic on June 06, 2007, 10:55:17 am
my 2c - Even if it is a public road, it is a nature reserve and therefore according to the "laws" of the governing body -(DEAT) no mbikes are allowed to enter such areas.  It might be due to the Hell becomming a biker paradise that DEAT resolved to impose the restriction - I'm afraid there is not much we can do.

CPT it is the same as trying to get past the access control at the PE Light House @ Cape Receive (just past Pine Lodge) - there is no way in hell  :lol: they will let any mbikes through.
Title: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: Trailrider on June 06, 2007, 11:32:00 am
OK. I spoke to Loraine from Cape Nature. She says it's a Heritage site and as such they don't want quads and bikes there. If it's just a "Scooter" which isn't going to "jaag" and make a lot of noise and cause damage they might consider giving permission once off. She's friendly and helpfull BUT the final say lies with a certain Erika Swanepoel who has to be contacted at 044 203 6325. I have been trying to get in contact with her for our trip on the 16th. No luck yet as there is no answer.

Will keep you posted.

The shop is on private property but you have to cross Cape Nature to get to it, so at this stage all bikes are turned around at the first Cape Nature building as you enter Gamkaskloof.
Title: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: Captain Zef on June 06, 2007, 11:43:45 am
Quote from: "Trailrider"
OK. I spoke to Loraine from Cape Nature. She says it's a Heritage site and as such they don't want quads and bikes there. If it's just a "Scooter" which isn't going to "jaag" and make a lot of noise and cause damage they might consider giving permission once off. She's friendly and helpfull BUT the final say lies with a certain Erika Swanepoel who has to be contacted at 044 203 6325. I have been trying to get in contact with her for our trip on the 16th. No luck yet as there is no answer.

Will keep you posted.

The shop is on private property but you have to cross Cape Nature to get to it, so at this stage all bikes are turned around at the first Cape Nature building as you enter Gamkaskloof.


Is the Cape Nature building the one as you come down the steep long hill. Thats the only building i saw. If you have to turn around at that spot you might as well do because there is nothing much further in except the restuarant whos gonna loose money now. :lol:  :lol:
Title: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: Captain Zef on June 06, 2007, 11:47:10 am
Quote from: "GS-holic"
my 2c - Even if it is a public road, it is a nature reserve and therefore according to the "laws" of the governing body -(DEAT) no mbikes are allowed to enter such areas.  It might be due to the Hell becomming a biker paradise that DEAT resolved to impose the restriction - I'm afraid there is not much we can do.

CPT it is the same as trying to get past the access control at the PE Light House @ Cape Receive (just past Pine Lodge) - there is no way in hell  :lol: they will let any mbikes through.


GS-Holic my friend.  :lol:  :lol:

They only stop BMWs. I've been at the PE lighouse several times, with my Suzuki GSXR and my KLR. We once went in there as a group of three bikes. :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  Seriaasss
Title: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: Trailrider on June 06, 2007, 11:58:50 am
Quote from: "Captain Slow"
Quote from: "Trailrider"
OK. I spoke to Loraine from Cape Nature. She says it's a Heritage site and as such they don't want quads and bikes there. If it's just a "Scooter" which isn't going to "jaag" and make a lot of noise and cause damage they might consider giving permission once off. She's friendly and helpfull BUT the final say lies with a certain Erika Swanepoel who has to be contacted at 044 203 6325. I have been trying to get in contact with her for our trip on the 16th. No luck yet as there is no answer.

Will keep you posted.

The shop is on private property but you have to cross Cape Nature to get to it, so at this stage all bikes are turned around at the first Cape Nature building as you enter Gamkaskloof.


Is the Cape Nature building the one as you come down the steep long hill. Thats the only building i saw. If you have to turn around at that spot you might as well do because there is nothing much further in except the restuarant whos gonna loose money now. :lol:  :lol:


That's the one. Agreed that by then you have done basically the whole route, but if it's late and you're not allowed in, well, you don't want to ride out again if it's raining or dark.

Usually the idea is to overnight there.
Title: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: GS-holic on June 06, 2007, 12:26:18 pm
Quote from: "Captain Slow"
Quote from: "GS-holic"
my 2c - Even if it is a public road, it is a nature reserve and therefore according to the "laws" of the governing body -(DEAT) no mbikes are allowed to enter such areas.  It might be due to the Hell becomming a biker paradise that DEAT resolved to impose the restriction - I'm afraid there is not much we can do.

CPT it is the same as trying to get past the access control at the PE Light House @ Cape Receive (just past Pine Lodge) - there is no way in hell  :lol: they will let any mbikes through.


GS-Holic my friend.  :lol:  :lol:

They only stop BMWs. I've been at the PE lighouse several times, with my Suzuki GSXR and my KLR. We once went in there as a group of three bikes. :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  Seriaasss


MMMm - I don't do bribes - been there twice on a Sunday morning and the guy at the boom gate flatly refused - it might be that he knows the BM is purpose made for sand riding and that I'm most likely to ride the dunes up to Willows - something that the KLR and GSX bikes will not attempt.  :wink:   :lol:
Title: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: Captain Zef on June 06, 2007, 12:40:14 pm
Quote from: "GS-holic"
Quote from: "Captain Slow"
Quote from: "GS-holic"
my 2c - Even if it is a public road, it is a nature reserve and therefore according to the "laws" of the governing body -(DEAT) no mbikes are allowed to enter such areas.  It might be due to the Hell becomming a biker paradise that DEAT resolved to impose the restriction - I'm afraid there is not much we can do.

CPT it is the same as trying to get past the access control at the PE Light House @ Cape Receive (just past Pine Lodge) - there is no way in hell  :lol: they will let any mbikes through.


GS-Holic my friend.  :lol:  :lol:

They only stop BMWs. I've been at the PE lighouse several times, with my Suzuki GSXR and my KLR. We once went in there as a group of three bikes. :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  Seriaasss


MMMm - I don't do bribes - been there twice on a Sunday morning and the guy at the boom gate flatly refused - it might be that he knows the BM is purpose made for sand riding and that I'm most likely to ride the dunes up to Willows - something that the KLR and GSX bikes will not attempt.  :wink:   :lol:


Or maybe he knows a GS shot with Anakees will for sure get stuck in the sand and he will have to help you push. :wink:  :lol:
Title: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: Clockwork Orange on June 06, 2007, 01:48:11 pm
Growing up in PE my best mates dad was the light house keeper there. He had an old XL 125 and I had a Suzuki RV90. We had free-roam of the area and there were plenty paths to play on. I spent many a weekend staying with him. As you approach the lighthouse there are 2 buildings to the right of it. The building furthest to the right was their house......Good times
Title: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: Trailrider on June 06, 2007, 02:30:01 pm
OK. I spoke to Erika Swanepoel at Cape Nature. These are the rules:

1. No Quad bikes ever ever again - ever.
2. No MX or noisy bikes. Even if you did get permission - if you show up with one of these you will be turned away.
3. No bikes of ANY kind during long weekends or holidays.

If you want to go with a silent street legal motorbike, out of season (& out of long weekends / holidays) you can apply for permission from Erika Swanepoel at eswanepoel@capenature.co.za

Your e-mail must include the number of bikes involved and the name of the person taking responsibility for the group as a whole.

There you have it. Join us on the trip of the 16th. You never know when they ban bikes totally...
Title: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: Watty on June 06, 2007, 02:38:34 pm
Quote from: "Trailrider"

...
2. No MX or noisy bikes. Even if you did get permission - if you show up with one of these you will be turned away.
...

Question:  How are they going to make that kind of decision?  Decibel measuring device?  A checklist of all motorcycles made with a rating scale to indicate how 'noisy' they are?  Exactly what is their definition of "this pipe is to loud?''  Any info of the maximum decibels allowed?
If they make such a rule they should, no must, be able to give the standard against which it is being applied.  I see lots of legal implications if they try and to enforce such a rule without a set, and acceptable, standard.  They should also then be able to enforce such a standard fairly and accurately - not purely on the judgment of an official's hearing tolerance level.
Title: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: growweblaar on June 06, 2007, 02:39:10 pm
So, none of this kinda stuff:

(http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x37/mombie/swazi/IMGP3095.jpg)
(http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x37/mombie/swazi/IMGP3125.jpg)[/img]
Title: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: Trailrider on June 06, 2007, 02:43:17 pm
Good question Watty. Maybe Sir Gravellot could answer that question. I know that if you want to take a trailbike into Nature Conservation the rule of thumb is 96 decibels. That is very very low. Mrs. Trailriders NXR125 complies to that. I rode her bike up to 50m from a Bushbuck before it heard me.

My guess would be that a standard bike would "sound" OK, while a performance exhaust would be a definite no no. Paramed would never make it...  :roll:  :D
Title: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: Trailrider on June 06, 2007, 02:47:22 pm
Growweblaar - that's why all bikes are now banned. Playing is lekke and fine, but surely not in a Nature Conservation area...

Actually, that's unfair towards MX bikes. I am of the opinion that the Quad guys are solely responsible for the Hell debacle and when they got banned they said "but what about the bikers?"

I don't know of a single good thing that came of quads. They just Fcuk up everything for all of us.  :evil:
Title: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: michnus on June 06, 2007, 03:21:49 pm
Quads and bikes? WTF????

Quads YES,YES,YES, they are recreational toys like a jetski, they have no palce in the Hell or any other reserve, bikes? What bikes? Bliksem you can't generelize on bikes, MX, enduro small cc bikes is the same as quads and don't belong near the Hell, but DS bikes is your mode of transport.


What utter twang
Title: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: bobnob on June 06, 2007, 03:27:54 pm
maybe we should all (and i mean all) email them and ask them for the reason :-)
Title: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: Eisbein on June 06, 2007, 03:31:38 pm
You get portable decibel meters - sound engineers use them (some of them anyway) while doing live sound.

They might (if they are clever) use one of them...


I am also a little anti quad (as far as nature is concerned anyway).

As usual it isn't the law abiding people that's the problem, but I've seen quads (and yes jetski's also) that just went mothering into public places with absolutely no respect for people, property or nature. Go play where its safe. (or where people have made space for it).
Title: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: shark_za on June 06, 2007, 03:34:37 pm
We talking about this all over the forums.

But this point must be made.
Michnus, you would support a quad ban, and so would most people, but this is where it backfires.
As soon as you support ONE form of ban its too easy for them to push it and change it to all bikes.
So you say offroad bikes must be banned next, then its DS bikes.

People should be stopped from doing this, dont ban the vehicle.
Title: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: michnus on June 06, 2007, 03:35:40 pm
Bobnob we know the reason, it is because they make decisions based on wrong perception.
Why must a normal DS guy on a trip be banned over a holiday period?

We need to send them e-mails explaining the difference to them between quads and bikes.

One thing I can tell you, is people come to visit over holidays with their quads and MX bikes, make shit because they don't stay here and bugger off home and think like a ostrich with the head in the sand that's it over and forgotten.

They blast past rural houses and bugger the environment up and then go back to their big city houses as if everything is still okay.

Everytime I see pics of okes like this in the veld far from home, I understand the strings get shorter until all off road gets banned.
Title: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: Trailrider on June 06, 2007, 03:38:08 pm
Quote from: "bobnob"
maybe we should all (and i mean all) email them and ask them for the reason :-)


Let me just try and get my permission before you aggravate them...
Title: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: shark_za on June 06, 2007, 03:40:36 pm
If you want to ban loud fast offroad vehicles, say that you only allow road legal bikes.
But thats not going to stop some chop on a KLR (cos they are blerrie fast) or HP2 with Akras from going in there and ripping the dirt!
Its a sad situation I have no solution for, apart from ban all or ban none.
Title: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: Geoff on June 06, 2007, 03:47:22 pm
Quote from: "Clockwork Orange"
Growing up in PE my best mates dad was the light house keeper there. He had an old XL 125 and I had a Suzuki RV90. We had free-roam of the area and there were plenty paths to play on. I spent many a weekend staying with him. As you approach the lighthouse there are 2 buildings to the right of it. The building furthest to the right was their house......Good times


This could be weird - Was your mate's name Keith ?
Title: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: mountainboy on June 06, 2007, 03:49:40 pm
I belong to the Mountain club and we allowed into private areas others would not have a chance in 'hell' to get to.Simply because we built up a relationship with the various owners.

The hike leaders makes damn sure he knows what the rules are and that all members abide by them,hence we keep our fragile arrangement in place.

Now I'm all for free riding and get-up-and-go but there are times that we need to do things properly,organised and abide by their rules.
Still fairly new to this forum but I gather that we decent blokes (no snikkering here pls :lol: ) ,so I strongly urge that we use the wild dog name to our advantage.
Pre-arrange a ride,let them kw when how many etc and they will see that WD are  good okes.

certain sensitive areas would require the 'blessing' of the WD's before venturing there under our banner.

I say use what we have -so far our name is not complete shit!!
Title: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: LuckyStriker on June 06, 2007, 04:06:44 pm
Quote from: "shark_za"
Its a sad situation I have no solution for, apart from ban all or ban none.

It's pretty easy to ban Kwats and MX bikes without falling into the trap you caution against.
Simply outlaw non-street legal machines on the premises. Quads and MX bikes are breaking the law whenever they ride on anything other than a track or private land anyway
Title: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: Trailrider on June 06, 2007, 04:07:33 pm
Quote from: "shark_za"
If you want to ban loud fast offroad vehicles, say that you only allow road legal bikes.


It might not be a perfect solution but it will go a long way.
Title: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: Captain Zef on June 06, 2007, 04:14:36 pm
Ya guys every time i hear this phrase "NO BIKES ALLOWED" i start boiling with anger.

My KLR is tame slow and not noisy at all. It 100% roadworthy even a clean numberplate and all. How can they ban me from some places. I don't even know how to pop a wheely.  :lol:

Eisbein, that sound meter idea sounds good, but they can't do it in the hell. The results will change every day. Sound pressure level measurement needs to be done in a controlled manner as you know.

I say they should allow all roadworthy bikes. Because they should all be quiet anyway. As for ripping up the road. I can do more damage with an old 2.4Diesel Toyota than with my KLR. :lol:
Title: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: Clockwork Orange on June 06, 2007, 04:31:44 pm
Quote from: "Geoff"
Quote from: "Clockwork Orange"
Growing up in PE my best mates dad was the light house keeper there. He had an old XL 125 and I had a Suzuki RV90. We had free-roam of the area and there were plenty paths to play on. I spent many a weekend staying with him. As you approach the lighthouse there are 2 buildings to the right of it. The building furthest to the right was their house......Good times


This could be weird - Was your mate's name Keith ?


His name was Henry Clapton, I still see him on a regular basis as we both live in Cape Town now.
Title: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: shark_za on June 06, 2007, 07:42:27 pm
Quote from: "LuckyStriker"
Quote from: "shark_za"
Its a sad situation I have no solution for, apart from ban all or ban none.

It's pretty easy to ban Kwats and MX bikes without falling into the trap you caution against.
Simply outlaw non-street legal machines on the premises. Quads and MX bikes are breaking the law whenever they ride on anything other than a track or private land anyway

And allow HP2's , KTM 950 SE's , Husky TE610's

I can cause the same amount of kak on those.
Title: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: bobnob on June 06, 2007, 08:07:38 pm
Quote from: "Trailrider"
Quote from: "bobnob"
maybe we should all (and i mean all) email them and ask them for the reason :-)


Let me just try and get my permission before you aggravate them...


i'm not talking aggravate them - i'm say that if we can show them how big the bike market is they might think twice about the ban - with the large amount of business they will be losing

i'm saying people should plan trips and request bike access

if a thousand people plan a trip over a year period they might think to reconsider...
Title: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: JourneyMan on June 06, 2007, 08:18:02 pm
Quote from: "bobnob"
Quote from: "Trailrider"
Quote from: "bobnob"
maybe we should all (and i mean all) email them and ask them for the reason :-)


Let me just try and get my permission before you aggravate them...


i'm not talking aggravate them - i'm say that if we can show them how big the bike market is they might think twice about the ban - with the large amount of business they will be losing

i'm saying people should plan trips and request bike access

if a thousand people plan a trip over a year period they might think to reconsider...


It might also hasten (sp) the ban. Ignorance and not knowing better.

Remember. For the, dare I say, average citizen out there, biking still have a negative connectation. A more structured approached might yield better results?
Title: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: Trailrider on June 06, 2007, 08:30:48 pm
Quote from: "shark_za"
And allow HP2's , KTM 950 SE's , Husky TE610's

I can cause the same amount of kak on those.


Yes you could, but I doubt the average HP2 , KTM 950 SE or Husky TE610 rider is type type of guy that would go to Gamkaskloof in a group of 20 with a truckload of brannas & coke causing kaark  :?:
Title: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: mango on June 06, 2007, 09:11:20 pm
[quote="bobnob
i'm not talking aggravate them - i'm say that if we can show them how big the bike market is they might think twice about the ban - with the large amount of business they will be losing

i'm saying people should plan trips and request bike access

if a thousand people plan a trip over a year period they might think to reconsider...[/quote]

I hate it when money becomes more important than the enviroment.
A long term solution should be found, and to hell with whether money
will be lost or not. Take a look at the new stadium they are builing in
Cape Town.....they don't give a shit about what it looks like, but what
it will earn in the short term.

Look at the damage 4x4s have caused to the enviroment on Blouberg Hill? It will make a ban necessary, and will take years to recover.

You have to start somewhere, and if research finds that quads are mainly to blame, then ban them, and make it clear, that should the problems continue with other bikes and 4x4s, then I agree that they too should be banned.
Title: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: letsgofishing on June 07, 2007, 09:07:26 am
What would be wrong with only allowing road licenced bikes in conjunction with the use of a decibel meter  -say 96dB? That way  you're either in or out.
Title: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: Clockwork Orange on June 07, 2007, 09:09:14 am
Quote from: "letsgofishing"
What would be wrong with only allowing road licenced bikes in conjunction with the use of a decibel meter  -say 96dB? That way  you're either in or out.


I agree with this. I also think Mango has a valid point too. It is harsh but if that is what it takes to safe the sensitive areas, I can respect that.
Title: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: Watty on June 07, 2007, 09:19:23 am
Quote from: "letsgofishing"
What would be wrong with only allowing road licenced bikes in conjunction with the use of a decibel meter  -say 96dB? That way  you're either in or out.

Agree!  Set an acceptable standard that is easy to implement and control.
Title: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: Trailrider on June 07, 2007, 09:41:00 am
Quote from: "Watty"
Quote from: "letsgofishing"
What would be wrong with only allowing road licenced bikes in conjunction with the use of a decibel meter  -say 96dB? That way  you're either in or out.

Agree!  Set an acceptable standard that is easy to implement and control.


Cool. Just remember that 96dB is VERY low. It will probably rule out most bikes here. I'm not sure, but I think the standard GS1200 could be OK. Some of those bikes run very quietly.

An "acceptable standard" for bikers would probably be more in the 110 - 120 dB range, while the "acceptable standard" for the conservation guys would be more in the region of 0dB.  :?:

IMO any licensed bike with a standard exhaust should be OK. Aftermarket / performance pipes could get load for a conservation area.

(and a car exhaust of course...  :D  hey Paramed?)
Title: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: KiLRoy on June 07, 2007, 10:08:02 am
Its so 'yesterday' to just an all bikes and quads.  So brain dead, retarded and Mugabe-like.

Quote
t's pretty easy to ban Kwats and MX bikes without falling into the trap you caution against.
Simply outlaw non-street legal machines on the premises.


LS, as easy as that, problem solved.  A noisy exhaust is an illegal bike - thats how they can police it.  A HP2 making kak can be policed via the entry rules on a board (it in any case only 0.214563%) of bikers/visitors.

I don't like the Gestapo-like 'phone Erika - depending on the state of her PMS she'll decide the outcome of your trip' - idea.  Make the rules simple and concise - only street-legal bikes (implying street-legal zorsts).  We have to decide then - either a mean sounding performance zorst or access to Nature Reserves - easy as that.  We must get these monkeys away from decision-making.

I know a lot of stupid people are f@king up our nature reserves and sensitive areas, but these Nature Reserve people sometimes act if they own the planet with all its fauna and flora.  If 1% of people are dose - you don't have to act like a drill sergeant for the other 99%?

In order to keep out 99.9% of the culprits on their quads and MX bikes (which will be simple to regulate as mentioned above), they run the risk of alienating a lot of right-minded riders supporting their course.

I don't like this 'ask Erika' uber alles fuhrer mentality - rather use intelligent, transparent rules to govern access.

MHO - Hein
Title: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: SirGravellot on June 07, 2007, 10:20:51 am
TR - I have posted a detailed reply on your related post - All punished for the sins of others...

http://wilddogtours.co.za/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7707

I completely agree with mountainboy.

To answer TR question: Most "old" bikes (Pre 2006) wouldn't pass the EPA (Environmental Protection Agency) requirements wrt noise and gas emissions. From 2006 onwards most Road-legal bikes/quads (from major players - Honda, Suzuki, Yamaha, BMW, Kawasaki) have the EPA certificate and all sport bikes/quads have an EPA label showing that the manufacturer has
produced it under EPA competition exemption - in other words it doesn't comply to the noise & emission standard.

We're probably looking at anything below 120 db should be fine though. But I doubt it that the "Veldwagters" would be issued with a decibell meter though.... :roll:
Title: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: PARAMED on June 07, 2007, 05:17:26 pm
Having read all that has been said,I also dont enjoy the Nazi state mentality,what qualifies one person to say yes,or no...That is to prone to fluctuation.... Rather have clear guide lines!



TR,I have changed my BOOM box,to a Factory spec XT660R Xhorst,so hopefully I can have some mates to ride with as noone seemed to want to ride anywhere near me??? :D


What is the word on the 16th trip?
Is it worth a Petition by all paticipating WD members?
Title: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: Jaqhama on June 07, 2007, 05:38:59 pm
RE: The Hell.

Had this sort of thing happen in Oz many times.

So it's no legal registered bikes during holiday periods or long weekends and then you need to ring for entry permission anyway even during the week?
What this Erika woman is really saying is that as far as she is concerned you are second class citizens and don't have the same rights as a cage driver.
She has judged all of you according to something that some other quad or bike rider has done.
Small minded to say the least!
But if the camping area is private property then they can allow entry to who they want, or choose to refuse it.

The road into the camp site is one in and one way out yes?
Well unless it's a particularly interesting and challenging dirt road I personally wouldn't even bother to ride it now.

Number one: I ain't going to beg permission to be allowed into an area that cage drivers can come and go into at will!
Number two: I would not give them the satisfaction of spending any of my money in a place where they don't really want bikers to begin with!

Doubtless over the years they have had many well behaved riders camp there.
That obviously counts for nothing.

So to be blunt (and I often am) FK them!
I would just cross the Hell off my list of places to go.
I might however look around the area at other private properties, perhaps a farm or something, and approach the owner of that place and see if he/she would care to profit from dual sport riders camping on their property.

In Oz we just camp in the bush...can you not just ride a little ways off of the main route and set up your campsites?
All you need is food and water.
Title: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: mango on June 07, 2007, 08:29:39 pm
I'm a little lost here  :?

I thought we were discussing the damage offroad users were causing to
the enviroment, and not the noise levels, although I do agree with bringing down the noise levels.....but......what the hell has that got to do
with the actual damage that is being done?

Sometimes banning is a necessary evil,and I believe S Africans as a whole, don't give a shit about their surrounds.....Open your eyes, and
look around you?
Title: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: Trailrider on June 07, 2007, 11:28:12 pm
Quote from: "mango"
I thought we were discussing the damage offroad users were causing to the enviroment, and not the noise levels, although I do agree with bringing down the noise levels.....but......what the hell has that got to do
with the actual damage that is being done?


In this Hell debate noise levels is very relevant. It's probably (?) the main reason we're not allowed. Surely bikes don't cause more damage on long weekends than any other days?

So why "could" we "possibly" be allowed, but not on Long weekends or holidays? Because the other holiday makers complain about hooligans and noise. Once you prove that your bike runs quietly and you're not a hooligan the environment arguments will come out.  :evil:

Having said that - I do strongly believe that the environment should be protected.

http://www.treadlightly.org/page.php/responsible-dirtbike/Responsible-DirtBike.html
Title: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: Captain Zef on June 07, 2007, 11:42:59 pm
I agree with Jaq, they can go and get f*****.  :D

We'll make our own camp. Just need food and water. :D
Title: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: Jaqhama on June 08, 2007, 10:31:29 am
Quote from: "Captain Slow"
I agree with Jaq, they can go and get f*****.  :D

We'll make our own camp. Just need food and water. :D


This young Jedi will go far. :D
Title: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: Captain Zef on June 08, 2007, 11:52:45 am
Quote from: "Jaqhama"
Quote from: "Captain Slow"
I agree with Jaq, they can go and get f*****.  :D

We'll make our own camp. Just need food and water. :D


This young Jedi will go far. :D


Well i'm learning from the best. :D
Title: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: KiLRoy on June 08, 2007, 12:07:49 pm
Can't see any damage to the environment when riding on public roads.  Quads and MX bike by design is not allowed on public roads, therefore ride on tracks and trails and wherever.  Although we can do it with d/s bike, we mostly ride on lesser traveled gravel roads.  

I'll be damn to understand how a d/s bike can cause more damage on a public road than a car or 4x4.

Its illegal to ride q and mx bikes on public roads, even secondary and gravel ones.  If push comes to shove (or maybe as a protest action) we can ride our bikes into the hell on the public road, park next to the fence and camp on the other side of the fence as a pedestrian - can't stop us, its a public road - f em

H
Title: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: Trailrider on June 08, 2007, 12:14:09 pm
We got permission to go in. We discuss the particulars of the trip on the planning thread, but for the broader discussion here I post a draft of the reply I got from Erika (Sorry Jaq and others - it's in Afrikaans)


Mr ___________

Hiermee word toestemming verleen aan Mnr ________________ om met Agt (8 ) Motorfietse in Gamkakloof in en uit te beweeg op 16 Junie 2007.  
 
Alle openbare padre√?¬ęls geld en onder geen omstandighede neem WCNCB (CapeNature) verantwoordelikheid vir enige ongeluk of besering opgedoen deur enige van die persone wat die area betree nie die betreding en gebruik word op eie risiko gedoen.  Hierdie pad word tans deur die Provinsiale Padingenieur as nie standaard geklasifiseer en sodoende word  die pad en area op eie risiko gebruik en word u of u voertuig nie verseker deur enige versekerings maatskappy nie.  Geen persone sonder die nodige provinsiale voertuig lisensie mag die voertuie bestuur nie.  
 
Spoedbeperkings binne die reservaat (40km/h) moet ten alle tye gehandhaaf word en die voertuie mag slegs gebruik word op die padoppervlakte en mag nie die pad verlaat nie.  Voertuie mag nie 'n steuring wees vir enige ander besoekers of natuurlewe in die omgewing nie. U moet asb in aanmerking neem dat die area wat u betree 'n Kultuur Historiese en Wereld Erfenis Gebied binne 'n Provinsiale Natuur Reservaat is.
 
Hierdie dokument moet getoon kan word aan persone wat navrae doen en indien alle re√?¬ęls nie nagekom word nie kan u gevra word om die area te verlaat sonder enige terugbetaling van kostes deur u aangegaan.    
 
Groete
 
Erika Swanepoel
Tourism Officer/Toerisme Beampte
Private Bag X658/Privaatsak X658
OUDTSHOORN
6620
 
Tel: 044-2036325
Fax: 086-528 9696
Cell: 082-777 9969
e-mail: eswanepoel@capenature.co.za
website: www.capenature.co.za


So permission from Erika is the reality of the case at the moment. I would suggest the following:

We'll do our trip and BEHAVE. We want to build a relationship rather than confront Erika / Cape Nature.

We will try and get an appointment with Erika and maybe Sir Gravellot can do a presentation and state our case. He is VERY knowledgeable about these things and delivers excellent presentations.

Maybe after we spoke to her the Wild Dogs can contact Cape Nature in an official sense and in a broader nature, as these permissions will soon be a reality in most if not all Cape Nature reserves (including Montagu Pass).

What do you guys think?

KiLRoy?
Title: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: Captain Zef on June 08, 2007, 01:26:53 pm
As KILEROY said: F em. hehehe  :D
Title: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: PARAMED on June 08, 2007, 05:55:25 pm
So Johan,If I want to meet up with you,I have to pop in to Wilderness,Get my mothballed Series 2 L/Rover,leave my DS bike,which I bought with the full intention of riding africa's unexplored wilderness areas,in the spirit of adventure,broadening my horizons,to get in my 4x4 CAGE,which I dont need any permits for........ Just to experience raw nature,spending my hard earned money,putting back into conservation!!!!!!!!!

I dont know about you guys,but I have an aweful taste in my mouth...! :cry:


A disgruntled Rider

Bryan

P.S And you say the whole of cape Nature is going this way!!!!?
      Anyone got a job for me up country,apparently I need to relocate  :lol:
Title: Re: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: Eisbein on June 11, 2007, 10:39:08 am
Are you guys sure about the DB levels ?

According to this site: http://www.josaka.com/Content/2000/Decibel-Chart.htm


This is about 90 db:
Heavy truck @ 15m     
Very annoying.  Can damage hearing after 8 hours exposure per day.
Busy city street
Lawn mower
Loud shout


My bike is quiter than that, as I can rev it up to 3000 rpm without having to raise my voice when I talk to someone.
Heavy truck at 15 meters ?

100db:
Jet takeoff @ 500m     
Train horn @ 30m

Can damage hearing after 2 hours exposure per day.


110 - 115:
Thunderclap     
Maximum vocal effort. 
Can damage hearing after  15 minutes exposure per day

Sand-blasting
Squealing pigs (not mine ...)
Amplified Rock Music


The DB scale is logarithmic, so things towards the top of the scale goes hellova loud very quickly tho'...
 

I would consider my bike (shamefully subjective...) around 70:

Motorway traffic @ 15m     
Telephone use difficult
Roadside traffic
Train horn @ 500m
Noisy restaurant
Fortissimo singer 3 ft. away
Normal piano practice

But's that objective and not considering my tinnitus ...

 ;)
Title: Re: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: Eisbein on June 11, 2007, 10:40:15 am
Looks like I might be off a little (just a little):

http://home.new.rr.com/trumpetb/audio/dBexamp.html

Title: Re: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: lecap on June 11, 2007, 10:49:37 am
IMHO the following would be a viable solution:
Only roadlegal (means fitted with a license plate and valid license disk) bikes are allowed.

This has a number of advantages:
Firstly very simple: Racing quad bikes and MX bikes have to go where they belong. To dedicated tracks purpose made for them.

Besides that: Policing is made very simple. If there is a complaint about reckless driving or excessive noise the owner of the vehicle will be very easy to find and to make liable.
If a Cape Nature official suspects a "borrowed" license plate and disc on a race trim screaming MX it will be easy to check (VIN).
If a rider misbehaves he and his vehicle can get banned effectively from Cape Nature land.

I must admit that the closure of The Hell for motorcycles comes as a shock for me. I have sent many of my customers into Gamkaskloof over the last six years without ever receiving any complaints.
My customers do Gamkaskloof as a day trip based on a guest farm near Calitzdorp. I will for my part recommend to them to go as far as they are allowed and will leave it to the owners of the kiosk to take on Cape Nature to allow day visitors with street legal licensed bikes access to the kiosk.

To the forum I would suggest a petition to be submitted to Cape Nature + DEAT:
To allow licensed motorcycles into Die Hel as denying them access constitutes discrimination of their riders.
To deny access to Die Hel to all unlicensed vehicles no matter if travelling on their own wheels or trailered or piggyback on a bakkie.
To enforce a set of rules for ALL visitors: No excessive noise, no unnecessary riding / driving, no offroad.
Title: Re: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: Trailrider on June 11, 2007, 11:02:50 am
Looks like I might be off a little (just a little):

http://home.new.rr.com/trumpetb/audio/dBexamp.html



Interresting table this. I have measured my NXR (a VERY quiet bike) with an actual db meter and it got to just over 100db at high revving. A KDX with performance pipe idles at 115 db. So either our meter was flucked or the table is somehow a different db? Like you get a ton and a metric ton?
Title: Re: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: Eisbein on June 11, 2007, 12:27:27 pm
Looks like I might be off a little (just a little):

http://home.new.rr.com/trumpetb/audio/dBexamp.html



Interresting table this. I have measured my NXR (a VERY quiet bike) with an actual db meter and it got to just over 100db at high revving. A KDX with performance pipe idles at 115 db. So either our meter was flucked or the table is somehow a different db? Like you get a ton and a metric ton?

Waar was die meter toe jy dit getoets het ?
Hoe ver van die motorfiets af ?


Ek dink persepsie van klank is ook logaritmies sagter hoe verder jy van dit af is (soos bv oorfone - oorverdowend wanneer dit op jou ore is is amper onhoorbaar 3 meter weg...)

Title: Re: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: Trailrider on June 11, 2007, 01:32:45 pm
Langs die fiets redelik agter exhaust kant. Ek en Sir Gravellot het die bikes getoets voor ons 'n natuurbewrings gebied binnegegaan het..
Title: Re: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: Runner on June 11, 2007, 08:13:57 pm
So, none of this kinda stuff:

(http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x37/mombie/swazi/IMGP3095.jpg)
(http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x37/mombie/swazi/IMGP3125.jpg)[/img]

Hierdie fotos is geneem in Swaziland. Ons het daar gery MET toestemming, weg van enige natuurreservaat of iemand se huis of enige iets.Ons het niemand de moer  in gehad of niks nie, kry iets anders vir 'n voorbeelb bv 'n quad!!! :(
Title: Re: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: Trailrider on June 11, 2007, 09:09:24 pm
So, none of this kinda stuff:

(http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x37/mombie/swazi/IMGP3095.jpg)
(http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x37/mombie/swazi/IMGP3125.jpg)[/img]

Hierdie fotos is geneem in Swaziland. Ons het daar gery MET toestemming, weg van enige natuurreservaat of iemand se huis of enige iets.Ons het niemand de moer  in gehad of niks nie, kry iets anders vir 'n voorbeelb bv 'n quad!!! :(

Runner

Niemand het gese dis jou/julle skuld nie. Speel is fine en lekker op die regte plekke met toestemming soos julle gedoen het. Ek het gese:

Growweblaar - that's why all bikes are now banned. Playing is lekke and fine, but surely not in a Nature Conservation area...

Actually, that's unfair towards MX bikes. I am of the opinion that the Quad guys are solely responsible for the Hell debacle and when they got banned they said "but what about the bikers?"

I don't know of a single good thing that came of quads. They just Fcuk up everything for all of us.  :evil:

Ek dink nie iemand het iets sleg oor julle bedoel nie - net dat mense nie dit in 'n natuurbewaring gebied moet doen nie - ek dink jy stem saam...?
Title: Re: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: Captain Zef on June 12, 2007, 06:31:05 am
I don't even know how to pop a wheely.


Hi Slow.......... I expected a bit more from you  !!!! ::) ::) ::)

Why??  ;D

I'm still a beginner.
Title: Re: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: lecap on June 12, 2007, 08:38:34 am
Re: decibels:

Some of the posts above show why it's not a good idea to arm the Cape Nature officialy with dB meters.
There is a lot of different ways to measure sound pressure in decibels:
The standard ISO way is at a distance of 1m from the source of the noise.

This is the one NOT used for vehicles. Imagine measuring one metre from the side or front and one metre behind the exhaust.

There is two types of noise emission measurements in general, stationary and passing vehicle noise emission.

I don't remember exactly how it works but stationary the test microphone is behind the vehicle at a certain distance and offset to the sides facing towards the rear endof the vehicle.
Passing vehicle is measured at a given distance under specific load (throttle position, gear) with the vehicle approaching and passing the microphone and the mic. pointing at the side of the vehicle.

Definitely waaay to complicated to get reproducable results in a field environment.
Title: Re: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: LuckyStriker on June 12, 2007, 09:02:40 am
It's funny how those Unimog or tractor Game Viewers are the noisiest vehicles in the nature reserves

I've been on one or two night drives on the back of a diesel Toyota game viewer and we could barely hear the shouting guide over the rattling tappets
Title: Re: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: Eisbein on June 12, 2007, 10:57:51 am
Re: decibels:

Some of the posts above show why it's not a good idea to arm the Cape Nature officialy with dB meters.
There is a lot of different ways to measure sound pressure in decibels:
The standard ISO way is at a distance of 1m from the source of the noise.

This is the one NOT used for vehicles. Imagine measuring one metre from the side or front and one metre behind the exhaust.

There is two types of noise emission measurements in general, stationary and passing vehicle noise emission.

I don't remember exactly how it works but stationary the test microphone is behind the vehicle at a certain distance and offset to the sides facing towards the rear endof the vehicle.
Passing vehicle is measured at a given distance under specific load (throttle position, gear) with the vehicle approaching and passing the microphone and the mic. pointing at the side of the vehicle.

Definitely waaay to complicated to get reproducable results in a field environment.



After reading up on it I too think that it is dangerous to give an official a mobile db meter...


(Btw - I've read somewhere that it is 1 meter from the exhaust, 45 degrees offset...)

LS - I'm thinking the same thing as you about them noisemakers.

The issue is that some (ignorant) folks just don't like bikes.
So then you ask them why and they start coming up with stupid excuses (like 'its too noisy').

Like Oppad said - it is difficult for the person that are arguing about it, using noise levels as the main 'trump card', if they haven't heard you arrive...


I will challenge anyone about my bike's noise level.
I will ride in front of any offroad bakkie into any area and I can guarantee you that you will hear the bakkie and not my bike...

Title: Re: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: Jaqhama on June 12, 2007, 03:05:48 pm
Noise tests are useless unless conducted in a sterile enviroment.
A db meter on the side of the road is not going to be precise.

I think Cape Nature are just discriminating against bikers.
What they are really saying is we don't want bikes in our reserves.
Much better to have big 4x4's spewing out diesel and digging deeper tread pattens into the x4 than a smaller and lighter and cleaner two wheeled vehicle.
Excluding 2 strokes of course. ;D
I am talking about registered bikes, not un-regoed bikes.
Title: Re: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: Captain Zef on June 12, 2007, 08:10:46 pm
Noise tests are useless unless conducted in a sterile enviroment.
A db meter on the side of the road is not going to be precise.

I think Cape Nature are just discriminating against bikers.
What they are really saying is we don't want bikes in our reserves.
Much better to have big 4x4's spewing out diesel and digging deeper tread pattens into the x4 than a smaller and lighter and cleaner two wheeled vehicle.
Excluding 2 strokes of course. ;D
I am talking about registered bikes, not un-regoed bikes.


I agree with Jaq once again. I just wrote my audio engineering exams and therefore i know dB meter reading are shite..  ;D
Title: Re: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: Eisbein on June 13, 2007, 08:40:41 am

I think Cape Nature are just discriminating against bikers.
What they are really saying is we don't want bikes in our reserves.

Jaq - I think THAT is the thing ...
Too many people act out of ignorance.

Title: Re: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: Jaqhama on June 13, 2007, 06:36:27 pm
National Parks and Wildlife in my State have just completly banned all trail bikes and horse riders from a huge tract of land near me where people have been riding since World war Two.
I have written a letter to our local paper, much good that will do.

I don't know what it is with the majority of normal, non-biking citizens and a myriad of organisations...they just don't like us bikers.

I don't believe it's just noise and such like.
I believe on some deeper level (that they unable to explain) that they hate us for
our obvious love of life and the way we express it thru our motorcycles.

Time after time trail bikers have proven beyond doubt that they do much less enviromental damage than people in 4x4's...and yet it makes no difference, we are continually banned from more and more areas.

The only place people do seem to accept trail biking as a perfectly legitimate form of transport and recreation is in the USA.
There's a lot of things to dislike about America, but I cannot fault their acceptance of most forms of recreational transport and enjoyment.
Many States have also banned fixed speed cameras, because the people know it's just revenue raising and nothing to do with road safety.

If I ever have more money that I know what to do with I shall emigrate to America in a heartbeat!
Title: Re: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: cbekker on June 16, 2007, 07:23:34 am
The 3 Dudes did the Hell first week of January 2007 2x1200GS and 1x650GS and it was brilliant.

But as we were going down there were 4x4's flying up the hill with innocent little trailers hanging on for dear life. That was fun and our front runner even had to move/dump it into the ditch to avoid one coming round a corner.
4x4 might have been pouring himself a cold one or he was blinded by the beauty of the pony who knows.

When we got down to the gate nobody was there except a lone Quad bike obviously for official business.

So we tootled through to the shop and really what nice people quick with the drinks, a lovely meal and a history lesson. What you'd like to expect.
These people I am sure need the trade and the officials must figure out something a little more workable because you WILL need a drink and a spot of grub at the bottom.

I think engaging with Erica in a friendly manner is best and just let her know the intentions i.e. you'r touring and want to pop down for photos, a meal and to see the historical sites, mention support vehicles with the family etc. Worked for us in other places where it was a strict no entry deal. But behave as they definitely watch.

There were chalets looking newly built or renovated from the outside. We would consider doing the trip again and staying the night.

BE WARNED Watch out for the baboons. I had to make a small detour as a group seemed quite keen to take turns on the 1200.
Title: Re: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: Trailrider on June 17, 2007, 10:38:11 pm
These new signs are up everywhere. I saw at least six.

(http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z46/Trailrider_album2/Ride%20reports/Hell%20052007/P6160162.jpg)

I spoke to the guy from Cape Nature. He is new to Gamkaskloof (2 months) and a friendly bloke. He says they had a booking for six people a while ago. When the group arrived there were 27 of them - all on Quads. They got drunk at 9 in the morning and started screaming up & down the Kloof on the quads. He had to throw them out and this is why bikes and quads wanting to enter the kloof now has to be regulated with permits. He is not against bikes in general, just hooligans. We got 8 permits to go in this weekend and all we had to do was ask. If we misbehaved we would not get permits again. KAAS & Raider also went to Gamkaskloof on Friday night and got 2 permits no problem.

When we entered the kloof we got stopped and asked for our permits. I again had to produce them when we got the keys for out spot. The guy from Cape Nature was friendly and talkative and he gave us no grief or attitude at all. He used to ride a XR500 himself. I suggested that they maybe consider letting road legal licensed bikes in as this would cut out most of the problem bikes. He said he thought that it was a good idea and that he would take it up with Cape Nature. I believe building a relationship with these guys might be the best short term solution. I intend sending Erika a thank you e-mail again tomorrow.
Title: Re: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: Eisbein on June 18, 2007, 10:33:31 am
Quote
I believe building a relationship with these guys might be the best short term solution. I intend sending Erika a thank you e-mail again tomorrow.

Thats the best way.

Title: Re: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: Rat on June 20, 2007, 07:13:25 pm
For those of us who have had the privilage to visit Die Hell , you should all know how friendly they are there and my most memorable experience of a night in Die Hell was the quietness and the view of the stars. You have to have done this to understand there is a lot of sound (excuse the pun) reasoning taking place here.

Lets work with them as I'm sure we will regain their respect.
Title: Re: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: Maverick on June 21, 2007, 03:40:23 pm
RE: The Hell.
Well unless it's a particularly interesting and challenging dirt road I personally wouldn't even bother to ride it now.

(http://www.maverick-evolution.150m.com/2003/gamkaskloof/gamkaskloof07.jpg)

Jaq the road is not really technical but picture perfect. Been down the Hell a few times as a tour operator with my inlaws who have a B&B in Prince Albert. It is beautifull down there and certainly a must see place.
Title: Re: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: lecap on July 09, 2007, 03:37:05 pm
I applied for a permit for one of my customers who will go on a day trip from Calitzdorp to Die Hel on Thursday.

Wrote a bit disappointed and sad for all motorbikes being clubbed for the unruly behavior of drunkheads and hooligans.

This was the IMHO very reasonable reply that also clarifies the matter quite a bit with regards to "normal" DS travelers or adventure riders as opposed to MX racing bikes and quads. Very good to see that the officials see and make the difference.
See you in Die Hel!

Quote:

Goodday
 
No we do not have a ban on motorcycles because they are mostly roadworthy, licensed etc.  We just would like to know who will be visiting the area on motorcycles as we have had such a lot of trouble with motorcycles and quad bikes. 

Quad bikes are now banned in total.

If you could just e-mail me and let me know how many motorcycles would be entering the Gamkaskloof on which date it would be greatly appreciated as we just need to know whom to contact if any inappropriate behaviour is reported.
Touring groups are more than welcome they are not the problem but not to confuse the staff in Gamkaskloof I phone ahead and tell them whom to expect.

If you have any questions please contact me - if you do not have time to e-mail please call me on my cell phone.

Regards
 
Erika Swanepoel
Tourism/Toerisme
Gouritz Mega Park
Private Bag/Privaatsak X658
Oudtshoorn
6620
 
Tel: 044-203 6325
Fax: 086-528 9696
 
Cell: 082-777 9969
 
e-Mail: eswanepoel@capenature.co.za
Title: Re: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: Trailrider on July 09, 2007, 04:16:44 pm
After we got our permits we also were welcomed in Gamkaskloof and the staff were very friendly.
Title: Re: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: Oom Pad on July 09, 2007, 04:48:03 pm
A friend of mine owns the farm at the end of Gamkaskloof and they are so happy with the ban on Quads.Says they had endless trouble with them.
Title: Re: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: MuttsNutts on August 19, 2007, 03:45:41 pm
Not to be nasty but I support a ban on Quads, Except tracks etc laid out for them, had to many incidents up on the farm in the eastern cape of late on public roads
Title: Re: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: Marlene on October 10, 2007, 11:51:01 am
This is funny, where you get trouble it seems that quads are always the hooilgans responsible for making k@k for everybody!
Title: Re: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: Ama ride ride on October 10, 2007, 12:34:31 pm
This is funny, where you get trouble it seems that quads are always the hooilgans responsible for making k@k for everybody!

Mozambique is next......
Title: Re: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: Marlene on October 10, 2007, 01:43:02 pm
This is funny, where you get trouble it seems that quads are always the hooilgans responsible for making k@k for everybody!

Mozambique is next......

Unfortunaly yes, you are right.
Title: Re: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: Carnivore on November 20, 2007, 09:09:59 pm
Hullo everyone,

I entered Gamkaskloof on Saturday 13th October at18:15. The friendlist lady ranger, and her companion, presented us with our key to Meesters Huis. The way had been prepared by email bookings and EFT fees payment. That lets them know you are seriously touring and not looking to tear the place up. I also emailed Erica and assured her of our gentlemanly disposition. We were welcomed most sincerely.
Cape Nature is not out to be nasty. They are intelligent folk who really do know that there are bikes, and bikes. Just do the clever thing and approach them with due warning. All camping and accommodation is by prior booking, because there is no cash office as such.

Having come over the summit of Swartberg, we were almost wiped out by a little boy racer on an mx bike. No licence to ride on a regional road, and full throttle all over the road. Dad was in front, no doubt enjoying being out with his boy. But dammit ... it's a public road. There are laws for the protection of the public - that's you and me, and the bastard who killed my daughter's friend as a drugged drunk spoilt brat has the same disregard for others as that little twerp.
I used to tear up the world on my Maico 490 25 years ago, but had a healthy regard for the suburbs we passed en route to our playgrounds. We would not ride on public roads with an unlicenced bike. That's how it was.
It is unfortunately true that quads have become a plaything for many spoilt brats... and they think that the world owes them a place to play. Not so.... but there are places to go. Just show some respect to people who choose not to be blasted by inconsiderate racers.
Slowly but surely, the complaints are shutting down routes to us as adventure riders. Soon, there will be only tar roads for us... awful thought hey? Imagine not being allowed through Baviaans...

I love my 650 BMW and it was such a brilliant ride to The Hell. I posted our ride report here http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=281156&goto=newpost (http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=281156&goto=newpost). Please have a read.

Kind regards to all.

Carnivore
Title: Re: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: mountainboy on November 21, 2007, 05:49:06 pm
thats a really cool report Carnivore

Welcome to the forum!!
Title: Re: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: Pistonpete on November 21, 2007, 06:13:43 pm
Nice report...planning a ride there early in the new year. On the list!!
Welcome
Title: Re: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: Detourer on February 08, 2008, 07:50:59 am
MTB, Oppad and I were confronted by the same going up Spitzkop near Knysna. A good friend of mine, recently retired from SanParks, pointed out that the 'no motorcycle sign' referes to Quads of any kind and MX bikes. Strictly speaking all touring / leisure / DS bikes are no problem. They have had a few accidents and have also mentioned noise levels from serious offroad scoots which I understand is a problem. These are still reserve areas and disturbances should be kept to a minimum. Respect.
Title: Re: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: Jay on February 22, 2008, 02:35:25 pm
OK. I spoke to Erika Swanepoel at Cape Nature. These are the rules:

1. No Quad bikes ever ever again - ever.
2. No MX or noisy bikes. Even if you did get permission - if you show up with one of these you will be turned away.
3. No bikes of ANY kind during long weekends or holidays.

If you want to go with a silent street legal motorbike, out of season (& out of long weekends / holidays) you can apply for permission from Erika Swanepoel at eswanepoel@capenature.co.za

Your e-mail must include the number of bikes involved and the name of the person taking responsibility for the group as a whole.

There you have it. Join us on the trip of the 16th. You never know when they ban bikes totally...
You know this is so funny to read this‚?¶. We ride enduro at a place called Riverside mixer a stones through out of Pretoria East.  Some of the land we used belonged to Sammy Marks museum.  We basically had free range to ride were we pleased until the quads almost closed our best riding spot down.  If you go there now there is signs up all over ‚??NO QUADS‚?Ě ;D ;D

What is it with them‚?¶. Why does this happen and why does other behaving quad riders not sort this out? >:D
Title: Re: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: McD on October 10, 2008, 09:38:08 pm
This is exactly why ol Kortbroek brought in the total beach ban, it was just simpler and easier. In many ways we as South Africans are still very priveledged with our outdoor freedom, but the more regulated we become we will have to start either working within these confines or fighting a system. It usually better and easier to work within the confines. It must be Hell [skuzapun] for the professional bike tour operators that work Gamkaskloof - but then again they probably have an arrangement because they can give some sort of gaurantee of a standard - much the same as the off road clubs do at the moment. Maybe its time to start thinking along those lines.
Hey Goose whereareu - comment?
McD.
Title: Re: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: Goose on October 10, 2008, 09:43:37 pm
This is exactly why ol Kortbroek brought in the total beach ban, it was just simpler and easier. In many ways we as South Africans are still very priveledged with our outdoor freedom, but the more regulated we become we will have to start either working within these confines or fighting a system. It usually better and easier to work within the confines. It must be Hell [skuzapun] for the professional bike tour operators that work Gamkaskloof - but then again they probably have an arrangement because they can give some sort of gaurantee of a standard - much the same as the off road clubs do at the moment. Maybe its time to start thinking along those lines.
Hey Goose whereareu - comment?
McD.


I'm here... but lost..?  ???
Title: Re: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: ratrap on October 10, 2008, 09:59:47 pm

I'm here... but lost..?  ???

Need Avnics address already???  >:D
Title: Re: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: KiLRoy on October 11, 2008, 04:17:59 am
Can a registered roadworthy vehicle be denied access to a public road??
Title: Re: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: Red on October 11, 2008, 06:25:44 am
Can a registered roadworthy vehicle be denied access to a public road??

Up a bit early, captain?
Title: Re: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: KiLRoy on October 11, 2008, 09:25:45 am
After leaving you and S messages yesterday - just couldn't sleep.... ;D ;)
Title: Re: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: Goose on October 11, 2008, 03:47:16 pm

I'm here... but lost..?  ???

Need Avnics address already???  >:D

absolutely......... :biggrin:
Title: Re: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: ratrap on October 11, 2008, 06:15:31 pm

I'm here... but lost..?  ???

Need Avnics address already???  >:D

absolutely......... :biggrin:

GARMIN......I'm lost with it!  >:D
Title: Re: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: Tweets on March 08, 2009, 08:35:10 am
Three of us just went there in December 2008 (Whilst holidaying in Hartenbos) 2 x1200GS's, & 1 x 1200GSA.

Did not even know about this issue of no bikes. We had no problem anywhere. Arrival at the enterance, which is at the bottom of the 500m in 3.9km pass, was a matter of signing the book. To anyone going there. This enterance "gate" is about 45km from the Prince Albert road, and roughly 1hr 50min away.

Enjoyed a cooolie at the restuarant, then went right to the very end (Gate proclaiming Private road) and turned around a little tree, then back to the museum which used to be the school in the "hey-days of the kloof".   Again an interresting read of the history, then ride out to Prince Albert. 

For an indication of travel time. The following:
07:00 Departed Hartenbos. Had quick Breakfast in Oudtshoorn - Wimpy. Up the Swartberg Pass. Turn off to Die Hell. Arrived in "Die hel". Stopped twice en-route in, to take photo's, then pushed on.  Coolie at the restuarant. Drove to the very end & came back to the museum. 30min there-cool off under the shade of the tree. (Check out the temperature on the thermometer nailed to the tree trunk. 28Deg C that day 12:30 - Lekker Cool Normally its above 35 they say!!!!! )

Ride out of Die Hell (Never ending road !!) eventually arived at the Prince Albert road, then down the other pass into Prince Albert for a "late" lunch. Arrived PA at 15:00. Had a great lunch at the hotel, departed for Oudtshorn again via Meiringspoort, and back to Hartenbos. Arrived Hartenbos 18:00.  Thinking back, we did NOT waste any time anywhere, other than a couple of stops for photo's etc.

Statement 1
Anyone  thinking they can quickly do "Die Hell", is very "mistaken". You literally have to set aside a whole day of travelling in and out of the place.

Statement 2
Someone, would have to do some serious convincing, if they want to get me to go back there again!!!!!  Done it, Very interresting, but NOT AGAIN !!!

I think, if a couple of "Windgat" laaities arrive at the enterance,  on those "Orange thingies", they may be refused enterance, but for the main, I think the personnel at the gate will make a valued judgement of the vistors, let you in or not. 

This issue, of not allowing bikers in there, is symtomatic of how the quad and unruley enduro guys have given the biking community a bad name. Again a few who spoil it for the rest. Absolutely NO consideration for others!

Thats my say
Done it , NOT "sommer" again
 

Title: Re: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: Trailrider on March 08, 2009, 09:59:26 am
On my recent trip I got permits but were not asked for it at the gate. I think if an unsuspecting person rides up they will make the call, BUT if you know about it it is better for the biker fraternity as a whole if we follow the rules.

There are signs put up - one as you enter the "Hell road" at the turn-off from Swartberg Pass (this one burned down recently and will be replaced) and another just as you enter "Die Hel".

(http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z46/Trailrider_album2/Ride%20reports/Hell%20052007/P6160162.jpg)

Tweety - why wouldn't you do it again? Just curious.
Title: Re: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: XRV-Boy on March 08, 2009, 11:02:22 am
I was there in January and they had no problem with our bikes its if you have a small cc like 450 down that you are not alowed D/S bikes are fine but proper MX bikes are not allowed :thumleft:
Title: Re: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: Trailrider on March 08, 2009, 11:14:23 am
I was there in January and they had no problem with our bikes its if you have a small cc like 450 down that you are not alowed D/S bikes are fine but proper MX bikes are not allowed :thumleft:

Haha! Nonsens man. Why would they discriminate against engine size? :D The bike needs to be road legal only.

(http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z46/Trailrider_album2/Ride%20reports/Hell%20052007/P6170235.jpg)

(http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z46/Trailrider_album2/Ride%20reports/Hell%20052007/P6170203.jpg)

I ride in several Nature reserves (with permits) and if anything some of those areas prefer the 125 trail bikes as they don't spin and make a racket. A guy on a NXR125 generally isn't after adrenalin anyway - then he would have had an enduro bike.

The biggest no-no is a loud exhaust. That pisses of the Cape Nature guys, horsemen, hikers and other visitors in general.
Title: Re: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: GreenMamba1974 on March 08, 2009, 12:01:18 pm
I was there in January and they had no problem with our bikes its if you have a small cc like 450 down that you are not alowed D/S bikes are fine but proper MX bikes are not allowed :thumleft:

Haha! Nonsens man. Why would they discriminate against engine size? :D The bike needs to be road legal only.

(http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z46/Trailrider_album2/Ride%20reports/Hell%20052007/P6170235.jpg)

(http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z46/Trailrider_album2/Ride%20reports/Hell%20052007/P6170203.jpg)

I ride in several Nature reserves (with permits) and if anything some of those areas prefer the 125 trail bikes as they don't spin and make a racket. A guy on a NXR125 generally isn't after adrenalin anyway - then he would have had an enduro bike.

The biggest no-no is a loud exhaust. That pisses of the Cape Nature guys, horsemen, hikers and other visitors in general.

loud zorsts may be fun, but not really cool on a d/s bike.  we shouldn't be disturbing the peace, otherwise more and more places are going to ban bikes.
Title: Re: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: Carnivore on March 08, 2009, 01:02:39 pm
I enquired about the rates at Boplaas - the very absolute end of the valley - and attched some pictures of our previous ride there. I got a most enthusiastic and welcoming response, fully supportive of our mode of transport.

So, comical sense must prevail... plan ahead, phone ahead, email ahead as requested to Ms Swanepoel and enjoy.

I think the signs really say, "No idiots allowed" .. take your cue.

BTW, Jock's red pony had a VanDerLinde pipe on it which is loud... but he rides like a gentleman. Go figure.. ;D So, when we encountered two khaki-and-green officials as we arrived at Meester's Huis, they were warm and freindly and there was just no problem at all.
Title: Re: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: SteveT on March 09, 2009, 11:01:22 am
Was also there in December - stayed at The Meestershuis next to the old school - what a lekker spot - with reference to the permission issue  - we asked and it was granted with absolutely no hesitation.

The cape nature chalets are really nice and clean. We asked for wood to be placed in the chalet - it was. Their is ice in the freezer - my advice would be to immediately put more in on arrival - in that way you wont need to buy any. Only downer on the whole trip was the prices at the little shop down the bottom they have beers etc etc but very very expensive. oh yes and having to leave the next day as well was a bummer as well.
Title: Re: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: Trailrider on March 09, 2009, 11:11:52 am

with reference to the permission issue  - we asked and it was granted with absolutely no hesitation.


My experience also.
Title: Re: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: Captain Zef on March 22, 2010, 08:41:29 pm
Must we still make prior arrangements?
Title: Re: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: RobC on March 22, 2010, 10:29:15 pm
Must we still make prior arrangements?
From what I gather yes... I think it is all about keeping the hooligan type that decides on the spur of the moment under the influence of a few dubbel brannas to go "Check out Die Hell".
Title: Re: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: Robski on March 22, 2010, 10:52:45 pm
Glad the quads and MX bikes are not allowed there anymore really, as it is a nature reserve, and they are buggering it up! (plenty places for mx bikes to go really!)

Haven't been there yet, and really looking forward to it!
Title: Re: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: Doggone on March 23, 2010, 08:41:06 am
In December when I rode that route there were some mx bikes. No one complained and no one stopped anyone at all. the whole "prior arrangement" thing seems to be a misnomer , or else I am just lucky?
Title: Re: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: Carnivore on March 23, 2010, 05:23:58 pm
It's still a good move to do "the right thing" and make plans. How else does one pay? There is no cash register at the gate. So booking a spot for a weekend would seem to be a wise move.
Title: Re: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: Captain Zef on March 23, 2010, 07:34:37 pm
Last time i wanted to do the hel i went to the Nature office in Oudtshoorn and they said they did not even know about the prior arrangement story. When i got to the gate in the hel they stopped me. I explained my story and they let me through. I think its BS!
Title: Re: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: chicco on March 23, 2010, 08:17:45 pm
Erika Swanepoel was replaced...Princess Matambulu is now in charge.... O0 only bikes with acronyms as names are now allowed, eg BMW KTM, all other makes with difficult Japanese names are not allowed.....
Title: Re: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: Mother on March 23, 2010, 08:35:32 pm
we where 3 bikes there in this dec past and there where more bikers that arrived .....no prior anything.....so bikes not allowed is bs
i was surprised to see this post although i see its old
Title: Re: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: Mother on March 23, 2010, 08:37:08 pm
we where 3 bikes there in this dec past and there where more bikers that arrived .....no prior anything.....so bikes not allowed is bs
i was surprised to see this post although i see its old

we where on licensed road going bikes....
Title: Re: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: Carnivore on March 23, 2010, 09:26:31 pm
Ok ok ok.... so some say yes and some say no... What does the Cape Nature website say you must do? I am too moeg to look, so someone else can do the donkey work and post back here...  :dousing:

FACT:

We are struggling to keep our noses clean. So, Princess or Erica, whomever it may be, I will make arrangements for a cottage, or a campsite or whatever, just to remain friendly and approachable and all the good things that hopefully make me nicer to deal with than some twit who beats the place up on a one-wheeled 2 stroke.

BTW, how does one pay for an overnight or two, if you do not phone, or email, a booking?

ITS A NATURE RESERVE!!!!!!!!!! People go there to ESCAPE from all the city shhht... So, play the game better than anybody else, and you will reap the rewards.

Prior arrangement was NOT bullsht... it's the way it was. If it has changed, OK, well and good. But it WAS THE WAY... OK?

So, ease up on the sense of entitlement...  :thumleft: Arriving there in a klomp manne as daytrippers is going to annoy the people in charge. Never mind what you think is your right or not..... just keep it nice and clean and simple... play the game.... forget the macho..

It may be possible to arrive at the gate, seeking to patronise Annetjie Mosterts camp. After all, that is private enterprise. But you still have to access the Reserve in order to get there, and she probably is under obligation to ensure orderly conduct from her visitors, so whichever way you look at it, it makes sense to make a call, especially for an overnighter.

The whole issue is always about rowdy bikers, and in the last few years, about quads. The main road through Gamkaskloof is NOT SUPPOSED TO BE USED AS A DRAG STRIP... it is hallowed territory. So, when just one ass does the brrrppppppp thang, it's curtains for all concerned, and years of goodwill are blown away. (Not that there is much goodwill anymore.)

Regarding the BMW KTM thing.... I suppose it was tongue-in-cheek?  ??? Guess so...  :thumleft:

If you were a ranger in green, and you were to cast your eyes on a bright yellow DRZ400, or a silver 1200GSA, one parked at Meestershuis, and the other at Mosterts Cottage.... which would you immediately suspect of hooliganism? Never mind whether he would be right or wrong... The RANGER HAS THE POWER... you need him, he does not need you. Perception is everything, when you are faced with an uphill battle.

Don't piss them off!!
Title: Re: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: 2 Stroke Dan on March 23, 2010, 09:50:01 pm
I have been going there for years, and as a day-tripper. Camp overnight and pay the warden at the end of the valley the next morning.
It is not a sense of entitlement, but a sense of loss. Everything is becoming so organised, run by big unwieldy organisations with staff so
intelligent that they will assume that a 120kg DRZ will make more damage than a 220kg behemoth, scrabbling for grip out of the Kloof.
Title: Re: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: Berm_Rooster on March 23, 2010, 09:54:56 pm
Carnivore, that's about the most sense I heard/read all day!

If we all (WDs) promote credibility of bikers, it might promt the green force to oversee the odd ninkumpoop's transgression - keeping Hel (Bav and other likewise places) open for longer (ever?)!

+100
Title: Re: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: mrhyde on March 23, 2010, 10:14:01 pm
Three of us just went there in December 2008 (Whilst holidaying in Hartenbos) 2 x1200GS's, & 1 x 1200GSA.

Did not even know about this issue of no bikes. We had no problem anywhere. Arrival at the enterance, which is at the bottom of the 500m in 3.9km pass, was a matter of signing the book. To anyone going there. This enterance "gate" is about 45km from the Prince Albert road, and roughly 1hr 50min away.

Enjoyed a cooolie at the restuarant, then went right to the very end (Gate proclaiming Private road) and turned around a little tree, then back to the museum which used to be the school in the "hey-days of the kloof".   Again an interresting read of the history, then ride out to Prince Albert. 

For an indication of travel time. The following:
07:00 Departed Hartenbos. Had quick Breakfast in Oudtshoorn - Wimpy. Up the Swartberg Pass. Turn off to Die Hell. Arrived in "Die hel". Stopped twice en-route in, to take photo's, then pushed on.  Coolie at the restuarant. Drove to the very end & came back to the museum. 30min there-cool off under the shade of the tree. (Check out the temperature on the thermometer nailed to the tree trunk. 28Deg C that day 12:30 - Lekker Cool Normally its above 35 they say!!!!! )

Ride out of Die Hell (Never ending road !!) eventually arived at the Prince Albert road, then down the other pass into Prince Albert for a "late" lunch. Arrived PA at 15:00. Had a great lunch at the hotel, departed for Oudtshorn again via Meiringspoort, and back to Hartenbos. Arrived Hartenbos 18:00.  Thinking back, we did NOT waste any time anywhere, other than a couple of stops for photo's etc.

Statement 1
Anyone  thinking they can quickly do "Die Hell", is very "mistaken". You literally have to set aside a whole day of travelling in and out of the place.

Statement 2
Someone, would have to do some serious convincing, if they want to get me to go back there again!!!!!  Done it, Very interresting, but NOT AGAIN !!!

I think, if a couple of "Windgat" laaities arrive at the enterance,  on those "Orange thingies", they may be refused enterance, but for the main, I think the personnel at the gate will make a valued judgement of the vistors, let you in or not. 

This issue, of not allowing bikers in there, is symtomatic of how the quad and unruley enduro guys have given the biking community a bad name. Again a few who spoil it for the rest. Absolutely NO consideration for others!

Thats my say
Done it , NOT "sommer" again
 



Pretty harsh blaming the enduro guys. We've established the reason for most of this, is caused by the quads.  Theres nothing wrong with agricultural quads either.  Might just aswell been oom sakkie and his 4 inch body
lifted Wrangler jeep on 35s doing doughnuts after 1 windhoek light, also unlikely since his name is oom sakkie. But anyways.
Title: Re: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: Captain Zef on March 24, 2010, 08:44:36 am
Its a public road therefore no non road legal cycles allowed..... thats commen sense..
Title: Re: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: mrhyde on March 24, 2010, 09:05:10 am
there are plenty of enduro bikes that are road legal. the drz is one of them.
Title: Re: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: Tagsy on March 24, 2010, 09:42:09 am
My2c Worth

I agree with Captain Slow, I,ve ridden to Die Hell numerous occasions , I was Polite Quite and took note of the fact that it s a reserve area.
If bikers go in tossing around then everyone loses...... Macho only works when in a pub fight . not when I think as someone mentioned a privelege rather than a right to go somewhere.

On the same vain, Lesotho , been a few times rode quitely and slowly whenever near a village or people both on bikes and 4x4's No stones no agro........ it boils down to RESPECT for the people in the area and what the areas used for/ is
Title: Re: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: Captain Zef on March 24, 2010, 11:34:51 am
there are plenty of enduro bikes that are road legal. the drz is one of them.

If you take a DRZ you have nothing to worry about.
Title: Re: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: Tweets on April 04, 2010, 03:34:44 pm
Nice one Chicco. When we went there, it was with 3 x Beemers, and there were other Katoom riders on their way out. We were welcomed upon arrival! Me also thinks any Jap brand would be interrogated. :biggrin: :biggrin:
Title: Re: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: fat b on April 05, 2010, 10:45:57 am
My2c Worth

I agree with Captain Slow, I,ve ridden to Die Hell numerous occasions , I was Polite Quite and took note of the fact that it s a reserve area.
If bikers go in tossing around then everyone loses...... Macho only works when in a pub fight . not when I think as someone mentioned a privelege rather than a right to go somewhere.

On the same vain, Lesotho , been a few times rode quitely and slowly whenever near a village or people both on bikes and 4x4's No stones no agro........ it boils down to RESPECT for the people in the area and what the areas used for/ is
MMMMM..... not quite !!! I seem to remember our last trip Tagsy !! It was not quiet or respectable !!! Our trip was spoiled by a guy who we did not know very well and ended up doing all sorts of stupid things ! He is lucky he was not moerd !!! It goes to show how one or two rotten apples can spoil it for everyone !!!
Title: Re: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: Smidty on April 05, 2010, 12:53:06 pm
"MMMMM..... not quite !!! I seem to remember our last trip Tagsy !! It was not quiet or respectable !!! Our trip was spoiled by a guy who we did not know very well and ended up doing all sorts of stupid things ! He is lucky he was not moerd !!! It goes to show how one or two rotten apples can spoil it for everyone !!!"



Vertel bietjie meer?  :pot:
Title: Re: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: fat b on April 06, 2010, 07:26:12 am
What happens on a ride stays on a ride !  >:D
Title: Re: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: Tagsy on April 12, 2010, 08:14:19 am
Was in Die Hell last week no problems at all very nice. Saw a truck with a tractor on the back go down ther............... round of applause given to the driver at the bottom.....BALLS
Title: Re: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: fat b on April 12, 2010, 08:22:59 am
Hey bru !!! Happy you back safely !!! Next time you stay over at my place you can sleep in the garage !!! I have heard of legendary snorers , but you take the cake !!!!! LOL  :imaposer:

Title: Re: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: lovelalotless on April 13, 2010, 07:39:00 pm
Ek het geen aandeel in die Moto ding nie, maar ek wonder maar net.....


http://www.motoadventuresa.com/events/details/7-Tankwa/Die%20Hel


Ek het al die nommer gebel maar is toegang geweier, maar hulle kan 'n hele groep bikes toelaat oor 'n naweek nogal  :-\
Title: Re: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: Yami Super 10 on April 13, 2010, 08:05:17 pm
Ek het geen aandeel in die Moto ding nie, maar ek wonder maar net.....


http://www.motoadventuresa.com/events/details/7-Tankwa/Die%20Hel


Ek het al die nommer gebel maar is toegang geweier, maar hulle kan 'n hele groep bikes toelaat oor 'n naweek nogal  :-\

Moto Avontuur (Maton V Zyl) het n hele paar contacts. Baie van die plekke laat nie bikes toe nie, maar as daai groep gaan is daar geen probleem nie.
Dit word goed gereel.

Ek sal kyk of ek "naam nou vergeet" se nommer het onder in die Hell.
Ek het laas jaar met hom gereel om n klompie quads af te vat, geen probleem gewees nie.
Wil net nie he jy moet onder in die hell, rond jaag nie. Ek stem volkome saam daarmee :thumleft:
Title: Re: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: lovelalotless on April 13, 2010, 08:09:54 pm
Ek het geen aandeel in die Moto ding nie, maar ek wonder maar net.....


http://www.motoadventuresa.com/events/details/7-Tankwa/Die%20Hel


Ek het al die nommer gebel maar is toegang geweier, maar hulle kan 'n hele groep bikes toelaat oor 'n naweek nogal  :-\

Moto Avontuur (Maton V Zyl) het n hele paar contacts. Baie van die plekke laat nie bikes toe nie, maar as daai groep gaan is daar geen probleem nie.
Dit word goed gereel.

Ek sal kyk of ek "naam nou vergeet" se nommer het onder in die Hell.
Ek het laas jaar met hom gereel om n klompie quads af te vat, geen probleem gewees nie.
Wil net nie he jy moet onder in die hell, rond jaag nie. Ek stem volkome saam daarmee :thumleft:


Ek verstaan die Parkeraad se redenasie. Trailrider het 'n telefoonnommer iewers gepos
Title: Re: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: Rough Rider on October 04, 2010, 06:20:47 pm
[quote="bobnob
i'm not talking aggravate them - i'm say that if we can show them how big the bike market is they might think twice about the ban - with the large amount of business they will be losing

i'm saying people should plan trips and request bike access

if a thousand people plan a trip over a year period they might think to reconsider...

I hate it when money becomes more important than the enviroment.
A long term solution should be found, and to hell with whether money
will be lost or not. Take a look at the new stadium they are builing in
Cape Town.....they don't give a shit about what it looks like, but what
it will earn in the short term.

Look at the damage 4x4s have caused to the enviroment on Blouberg Hill? It will make a ban necessary, and will take years to recover.

You have to start somewhere, and if research finds that quads are mainly to blame, then ban them, and make it clear, that should the problems continue with other bikes and 4x4s, then I agree that they too should be banned.
[/quote]

On Blouberg hill the tracks were originally started by the MX bikes, widened by the quads and eventually destroyed by the 4 x 4 guys. In my opinion all three groups had there part to play. I spent many happy hours riding my MX bike on Blouberg hill and yes we did our bit to damage it. 
Title: Re: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: Sprocketbek on October 04, 2010, 11:39:33 pm
Agreed that Blouberg hill is an example of what (extreme) over-use can do to the environment.

But there was a reason........people became gat-vol of being told "no you can't ride here" just to see bulldozers rip up the earth and development take place. The way expansion towards the hill has taken place it seemed immenent that the rich & famous will build their mansions there. Let's face it, the view from there is awesome. Some Sundays you had to elbow a spot open for a skottelbraai.

At that stage I only owned a Beach Buggy and stuck to the roads & tracks but soon there were more & more tracks on the steep slopes to test the brannas & testosterone levels. Not long before erosion started taking place......

Then a big war erupted between environmentalists and the users. The authorities had to step in to diffuse the matter, and they promised it will not be developed.

The rehabilitation has to a largel extent been the work of the 4 X 4 community, AFAIK.
Title: Re: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: Tweets on October 05, 2010, 07:51:11 am
BACK to the subject of THE HELL. We were there two weeks ago (Weekend of the Springbok Rally) There is no longer even a warden at the "gate" after you drop down that incredile pass into THE HELL proper. There was even a youngster with a quad (Behaving himself !!) So it looks like its open to all. There is even a sign at the closed-up littel shack where the Nature Conservation "Wag" used to get you to sign a visitores book, that states there is a rec eption further on. Well, there was nothing anywhere "further on"(sorry I did not take a pic fo that sign)

I just hope the bikers continue being good mannered, and dont bugger up the place for future riders. I would love to take my children there in 2 years time when they can legally ride the roads with me.
Title: Re: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: Trailrider on October 05, 2010, 08:15:27 am

There is even a sign at the closed-up littel shack where the Nature Conservation "Wag" used to get you to sign a visitores book, that states there is a rec eption further on. Well, there was nothing anywhere "further on"(sorry I did not take a pic fo that sign)


It's at the info centre right at the end, before the gate leading into the private farm.



I just hope the bikers continue being good mannered, and dont bugger up the place for future riders. I would love to take my children there in 2 years time when they can legally ride the roads with me.


+100000
Title: Re: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: Rough Rider on October 05, 2010, 09:34:29 am
Agreed that Blouberg hill is an example of what (extreme) over-use can do to the environment.

But there was a reason........people became gat-vol of being told "no you can't ride here" just to see bulldozers rip up the earth and development take place. The way expansion towards the hill has taken place it seemed immenent that the rich & famous will build their mansions there. Let's face it, the view from there is awesome. Some Sundays you had to elbow a spot open for a skottelbraai.

At that stage I only owned a Beach Buggy and stuck to the roads & tracks but soon there were more & more tracks on the steep slopes to test the brannas & testosterone levels. Not long before erosion started taking place......

Then a big war erupted between environmentalists and the users. The authorities had to step in to diffuse the matter, and they promised it will not be developed.

The rehabilitation has to a largel extent been the work of the 4 X 4 community, AFAIK.

We used to find a lot of 4x4 guys going up the hill with cooler boxes full of booze, drinking the booze and then making kak and smashing their beer bottles everywhere.

I agree; it pisses me off when we get banned from riding in a certain area, due to enviromental issues, and then they tear it up a few months later for housing.
Title: Re: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: Pistonpete on October 05, 2010, 09:49:23 am
While riding through there i only noticed one old bird who's face turned sour...although prune-like already....seeing us puttering past on the bikes. ALL OTHER cottage renters, hikers, cyclists campers & visitors waved & said hi :thumleft:
Title: Re: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: Pote on October 05, 2010, 10:07:32 am
While riding through there i only noticed one old bird who's face turned sour...although prune-like already....seeing us puttering past on the bikes. ALL OTHER cottage renters, hikers, cyclists campers & visitors waved & said hi :thumleft:
Well your zipper was probably open the whole time!!
Title: Re: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: westfrogger on October 05, 2010, 10:15:41 am
Subscribing.

Was the ban Erika or CapeNature's decision?
And somewhat off topic, but are motorcycles allowed in, for example, the West Coast National Park? Or De Hoop?
Title: Re: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: Pistonpete on October 05, 2010, 10:49:07 am
While riding through there i only noticed one old bird who's face turned sour...although prune-like already....seeing us puttering past on the bikes. ALL OTHER cottage renters, hikers, cyclists campers & visitors waved & said hi :thumleft:
Well your zipper was probably open the whole time!!
I was sitting at the time... :biggrin:
Title: Re: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: cloudgazer on October 05, 2010, 11:15:58 am
Subscribing.

Was the ban Erika or CapeNature's decision?
And somewhat off topic, but are motorcycles allowed in, for example, the West Coast National Park? Or De Hoop?

Motorcycles are allowed on the main roads in De Hoop, not allowed on the tracks reserved for hikers and mountain bikers.
Title: Re: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: Rough Rider on October 05, 2010, 11:42:06 am
I've been into West Coast National park on a bike; albe it a few years ago.
Title: Re: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: 2 Stroke Dan on December 02, 2010, 10:32:24 pm
Just more proof that a Acrapovic on full song does not sound nice to everyone. Damn the birthday of the big and fast "D/S' bikes.
Title: Re: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: the_BOBNOB on December 02, 2010, 10:47:55 pm
the "no bikes" in DIE HEL is a load of crap

there is a piece of cape nature then its privately owned then its cape nature again

maybe one day when the privately owned part gets sold to cape nature they might be able to enforce it

i also believe the sign is up there to prevent quad bikes and mx bikes from tearing up the place

if you cruise in pitch your tent etc there is no problem

did DIE HEL twice this year - once with the bike and once with the bakkie

doing again early next year with my dad (XL600) and my brother (KLR650) cant wait  :ricky:
Title: Re: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: 2 Stroke Dan on December 03, 2010, 06:40:16 pm
Well Bob, that is good news. A very special place.
Title: Re: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: Trailrider on December 03, 2010, 07:12:13 pm

the "no bikes" in DIE HEL is a load of crap


Way back when his thread started it wasn't. And there are still signs allover stating that you need a (free) license.

Quads and MX bikes certainly are not allowed and if bikes are spotted misbehaving they will probably be removed because they don't have a permit.

The permit thing is not actively enforced on licensed bikes at this stage. Now let us DS riders just make sure we don't misbehave and really F*** it up for all.
Title: Re: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: Socket on December 03, 2010, 07:27:43 pm

the "no bikes" in DIE HEL is a load of crap


The permit thing is not actively enforced on licensed bikes at this stage. Now let us DS riders just make sure we don't misbehave and really F*** it up for all.

+100 Ek gan +- die 23ste soontoe en ek gan baie bef@k wees as ek nie kan ingan omdat ander mense nie hulle self kan gedra nie
Title: Re: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: Tweets on December 03, 2010, 09:49:14 pm
You are so right TR
Title: Re: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: TVB on December 03, 2010, 10:10:07 pm
On my 2011 'to do' list!! Lets keep our DS Biking name clean!! Read many RR's and can't wait to do a few passes down in WP, seems like DS Heaven!!
Title: Re: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: Pistonpete on December 03, 2010, 10:43:46 pm
The road in is as such that one can get your jollies off if need be but once in the reserve area take it easy. Even on the road in be considerate to other travellers :thumleft:
See ....i also do good deeds... ;)

It's a lekker place for a bash.. :thumleft:
Title: Re: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: Off-Road-Adventures on December 17, 2010, 09:32:53 pm
I like the sound of a bike with an aftermarket pipe on it  ;D  ;D  ;D I do!! I do!! But I'm a motorcyclist!! My bikes all have their original silencers, even my XT500, so I ride in lots of places without pissing people off, half the time people don't even know I'm there. I have sweet talked my way into lots of places where I should not have been allowed because of my quiet bike.......... A smile and a quiet bike is no irritation to anyone. The guys without manners and loud pipes who wheelie and cause a disturbance have closed lots of riding areas for us. Talk to any of the American Dual Sport riders, they are two decades ahead of us on this one. They got their asses banned off so much land before they saw the light, it is happening to us too. Time for some maturity and consideration.............

I was at the Hell recently, the people there were really nice, and it was a long weekend  ;D
Title: Re: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: laurika on December 17, 2010, 10:11:13 pm
my pipes are subtle and silent...we like....we girly girl....
Title: Re: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: Pistonpete on December 18, 2010, 07:37:27 am
Why are 'loud' pipes automatically associated with wheeling & offside behaviour in reserves & sensitive places... ???
Title: Re: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: Jacko on December 18, 2010, 09:02:36 am
Why are 'loud' pipes automatically associated with wheeling & offside behaviour in reserves & sensitive places... ???

Simple logic, really.

Why do people 'like' loud pipes?

Because it sounds 'lekker'. It also follows that people with loud pipes are prone to lots of throttle blipping - this is undisputed fact.

Blippers are also more, erm, prone to 'enjoying themselves'. This, by definition, means spinning, wheelying, revving, etc.

I have yet to see someone with an aftermarket pipe that doesn't give it extra horns. Otherwise, why bother spending so much money?
Title: Re: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: GreenMamba1974 on December 18, 2010, 10:09:15 am
my pipes are subtle and silent...we like....we girly girl....

silent can also have positive connotations.  think - "silent assasin"  8)
Title: Re: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: GreenMamba1974 on December 18, 2010, 10:10:51 am
Why are 'loud' pipes automatically associated with wheeling & offside behaviour in reserves & sensitive places... ???


with loud pipes it's all about "ME".  real 'I surgeons'   ;)
Title: Re: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: RobC on December 18, 2010, 11:06:56 am
Where should we split this tread... it is so off topic... :mwink:
Title: Re: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: Pistonpete on December 18, 2010, 11:08:43 am
Why are 'loud' pipes automatically associated with wheeling & offside behaviour in reserves & sensitive places... ???

Simple logic, really.

Why do people 'like' loud pipes?

Because it sounds 'lekker'. It also follows that people with loud pipes are prone to lots of throttle blipping - this is undisputed fact.

Blippers are also more, erm, prone to 'enjoying themselves'. This, by definition, means spinning, wheelying, revving, etc.

I have yet to see someone with an aftermarket pipe that doesn't give it extra horns. Otherwise, why bother spending so much money?
Yes i agree but i can control myself in sensitive areas as well...when ridden at the correct gear & rpm its like any other bike...well almost!

Why are 'loud' pipes automatically associated with wheeling & offside behaviour in reserves & sensitive places... ???


with loud pipes it's all about "ME".  real 'I surgeons'   ;)

Actually its all about YOU....I like that trucks, busses (muffled bikes doing 40 in the left lane) & other vehicles are more aware of the sonorous beat of a big twin.. ;D
Here comes an asshole on a lekker sounding bike... >:D :imaposer:

Each to their own but most bikes with std zorsts sound kak. The detractors often make this aurgument because they don't want to lay out the bucks as well & come up with a myriad of excuses... ;)
Title: Re: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: Pistonpete on December 18, 2010, 11:09:37 am
Where should we split this tread... it is so off topic... :mwink:

You right Rob...thought i was defending the right to noise on the Loud Pipe thread...lol
Title: Re: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: Carnivore on December 18, 2010, 11:43:31 am
The two subjects are inextricably mixed... bgecause loud pipes are probably the culprit for many bannings... but only at the hand of a dweet..

I'll bet that I could ride right up to a ranger's office with my VDL burbling away, and not offend him. It's the way you come across, with the helmet-off greetings thing as well as how you pull away once you have your permit, and whether the exhaust causes an avalanche or rockslide as you hit the road again...

Bottom line is that no one, not even your buddies, are/is impressed by a loud pipe... it just sounds nice. So, treat it gently, and it won't bite back.

And yes, if I could afford it, I wouyld put a standard system on the GS650, but I do not have the tom, and that's how I got the bike. So it stays.

But with respect to the topic of this thread... how about just going there to prove the issue one way or the other...?

And another thing, slightly off topic, but still in the valley... which of the old historical houses has a swimming hole at the back? February in that valley...... eish!!  :o
Title: Re: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: Off-Road-Adventures on December 18, 2010, 12:05:43 pm
Well said guys............... But MAN!!! It should be illegal to silence a Ducati  ;) That sound has no equal.

De Hel is such a great place, I would change a loud pipe to a quiet pipe just to go there.  :) We were down in the valley after spending the night down there, at the restuarant when some bikes came down. We heard them loooooooong before we saw them  :o Everything stopped and all eyes were on the guys. A BM with standard pipes, and two KTMs with Leos. All the non bikers down there looked on with a mixture of annoyance, head shaking and apprehension. The arrival of the bikes took about 20 mins from when we heard them in that silent valley till when they got off the bikes and stopped the engines. Then the BM GSA went off on it's own up the road again to take some photos, it was a non-event.

On the bike, with all that sound around you, it's difficult to understand how much those pipes disturb the peace when you have been in a place like De Hel. And I love the sound of a bike  ;D     

Just my humble five bucks worth  :o
Title: Re: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: Tweets on December 20, 2010, 11:41:02 am
Crank it on Guys.
This debate will contine for ever. In the FINAL annalyses (FDdK) each have a valid poimt, but the Nut that is holding the handle bars, just has to have consideration for others and the surrounds. This is where the NUT, plays a critical part.  You can have a NUT with a silent standard bike tearing up the place, and be a serious culprit every one want to moer.  Then you get a a NUT who is considerate, with  Noisey pipes (KTM with bueat pipes) , just idle(Or lets say "Gurgle" ) through the place, and no one will even bat an eye. Again it totally depends on the NUT that hold the handle Bars. ;D
CONSIDERATION, CONSIDERATION, CONSIDERATION, Finish & Klaar. :biggrin:
Title: Re: The Hell - no bikes allowed...
Post by: Off-Road-Adventures on December 21, 2010, 10:13:53 am
Well said boet!!