Wild Dog Adventure Riding

General => General Bike Related Banter => Topic started by: Adventurer on January 24, 2012, 05:54:52 pm

Title: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: Adventurer on January 24, 2012, 05:54:52 pm
Facelifted, revamped, it is back......well, it will be shortly..... 8)
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: ChrisL - DUSTRIDERS on January 24, 2012, 05:58:51 pm
Looks good!!! :thumleft:
First mod woud be forkboots.
Hope the price would not be too stiff. :mwink:
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: michnus on January 24, 2012, 06:23:07 pm
For once BMW made a smart call and revived these bikes. They are sort off bullet proof, gmmffhh gmmffh couch couch waterprump gear.  ::)

But it's only this and the Tenere that is available in the real D/S long distance travel market.

If the tank is also going to be 14L it will be the reason this bike will fail as a come back.
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: JustBendIt on January 24, 2012, 06:28:38 pm
For once BMW made a smart call and revived these bikes. They are sort off bullet proof, gmmffhh gmmffh couch couch waterprump gear.  ::)

But it's only this and the Tenere that is available in the real D/S long distance travel market.

If the tank is also going to be 14L it will be the reason this bike will fail as a come back.

AFAIK every single mechanical thing on these bikes is identical to the outgoing twinspark Dakars - the bikes have the same frames, forks, swingarm, rear suspension, motor etc but just painted black - I'm sure the tank is the same capacity as the old bikes

The only real difference is the cosmetic look of the bike - different headlight, instrument cluster, switchgear etc

Does look good - not so sure about the name though - everybody knows DAKAR but WTF is SERTAO and would you wanna tell your mates at the pub that you ride one
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: Adventurer on January 24, 2012, 06:32:06 pm
Not to mention the lekker screen, the previous Dakar screen was a joke, and that revised oil pipe....anyone that has removed a clutch cover will know about THAT pipe....it is now rerouted around the front of the motor, and then underneath, no more hassles....I'm sure it will be a winner like the previous one was.... 8)
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: michnus on January 24, 2012, 06:38:32 pm
Here is the official BMW launch document, at least it's got a 400w altenator which is good for charging stuff but the 14L is going to be the death of this bike.
The 18l of the was good for 350km if normal and 430km when taking it slow.

But in all I am really glad they brought Lazarus back from the dead  :biggrin:
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: 2StrokeDan on January 24, 2012, 07:29:26 pm
What is the bigger/extra tank options on this?
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: Kawasefi on January 24, 2012, 07:41:33 pm
They should have ditched the fake silencer and used the space for extra fuel capacity.  But I like the look, better looking than the Dakar imo.
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: cocky on January 24, 2012, 08:14:41 pm
Over priced, under powered and just new spray job and some farkels!
Much rather buy the new BMW scooter, now there is a awesome bike, way better buy than this old girls shopping trolley!
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: JustBendIt on January 24, 2012, 08:18:43 pm
They should have ditched the fake silencer and used the space for extra fuel capacity.  But I like the look, better looking than the Dakar imo.

Its not a fake silencer but actually a catalytic converter first and a silencer second feeding gases into a second silencer on the right hand side

This is why the 650GS' is so quiet when compared to other single cylinder bikes
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: Laban on January 24, 2012, 08:42:14 pm
For once BMW made a smart call and revived these bikes. They are sort off bullet proof, gmmffhh gmmffh couch couch waterprump gear.  ::)

But it's only this and the Tenere that is available in the real D/S long distance travel market.

If the tank is also going to be 14L it will be the reason this bike will fail as a come back.

AFAIK every single mechanical thing on these bikes is identical to the outgoing twinspark Dakars - the bikes have the same frames, forks, swingarm, rear suspension, motor etc but just painted black - I'm sure the tank is the same capacity as the old bikes

The only real difference is the cosmetic look of the bike - different headlight, instrument cluster, switchgear etc

Does look good - not so sure about the name though - everybody knows DAKAR but WTF is SERTAO and would you wanna tell your mates at the pub that you ride one

sertao. (Portuguese: "backwoods," or "bush"), dry interior region of northeastern Brazil that is largely covered with caatingas (scrubby upland forests)
 8)
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: michnus on January 24, 2012, 08:50:57 pm
What is the bigger/extra tank options on this?

fark all, except maybe the old Touratech conversion which was bad to start with and cost more than a Yamaha   ;)
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: ChrisL - DUSTRIDERS on January 24, 2012, 09:13:06 pm
If it has the same frame as the old Dakars why then is the tank smaller?
Im so happy they brought them back. Should never have stopped. :deal:
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: Stofdonkie on January 24, 2012, 09:16:07 pm
R90k and still no fuel gauge ...  ::)
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: 2StrokeDan on January 24, 2012, 09:16:35 pm
Yes, Michnus, Yamaha prices are really good. :mwink:, I hope BMW could shave some 30kgs off this fatty.
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: wayneh on January 24, 2012, 09:20:47 pm
Same frame & suspension... This is not gonna cure the Dak's tendency to lie down at the first mention of sand  :-\
Pity they haven't taken the opportunity to do more.

 
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: RobC on January 24, 2012, 09:33:23 pm
I could still buy 2 KLR's for the price of one of these... :pot: :peepwall:
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: DaveT on January 24, 2012, 09:36:35 pm
City Golf in disguise
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: Operator on January 24, 2012, 09:37:55 pm
R90k and still no fuel gauge ...  ::)

......At least the Yamaha 660 Tenere has got a fuel gauge

AND

a 23 liter tank  

AND

more pleasing on the eye (http://www.saforums.co.za/rlt/Smileys/default/ino.gif)
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: RobC on January 24, 2012, 09:41:20 pm
Here is the official BMW launch document, at least it's got a 400w altenator which is good for charging stuff but the 14L is going to be the death of this bike.
The 18l of the was good for 350km if normal and 430km when taking it slow.

But in all I am really glad they brought Lazarus back from the dead  :biggrin:
I always liked the bike was just never in my price range... but as you say a 14L tank is stupid, that gives it a very small range. On a good day I have managed 400k on my KLR 21L tank.
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: Goose on January 24, 2012, 09:56:37 pm
R90k and still no fuel gauge ...  ::)

......At least the Yamaha 660 Tenere has got a fuel gauge

AND

a 23 liter tank  

AND

more pleasing on the eye (http://www.saforums.co.za/rlt/Smileys/default/ino.gif)


 :thumleft:
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: BiG DoM on January 24, 2012, 10:21:48 pm

AFAIK every single mechanical thing on these bikes is identical to the outgoing twinspark Dakars - the bikes have the same frames, forks, swingarm, rear suspension, motor etc but just painted black - I'm sure the tank is the same capacity as the old bikes

The only real difference is the cosmetic look of the bike - different headlight, instrument cluster, switchgear etc

Does look good - not so sure about the name though - everybody knows DAKAR but WTF is SERTAO and would you wanna tell your mates at the pub that you ride one
[/quote]

FYI = Sertao - essentiallythe Brazilian Karoo.
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: BiG DoM on January 24, 2012, 10:25:30 pm
Over priced, under powered and just new spray job and some farkels!
Much rather buy the new BMW scooter, now there is a awesome bike, way better buy than this old girls shopping trolley!

You forgot OVER Weight  :imaposer: Still a fatty wannabe DS roadbike. Sheep in sheeps clothing!
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: IDR on January 24, 2012, 10:34:24 pm
Over priced, under powered and just new spray job and some farkels!
Much rather buy the new BMW scooter, now there is a awesome bike, way better buy than this old girls shopping trolley!

You forgot OVER Weight  :imaposer: Still a fatty wannabe DS roadbike. Sheep in sheeps really ugly clothing!

Fixed!

Good grief it's hideous!
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: BiG DoM on January 24, 2012, 10:59:12 pm
Over priced, under powered and just new spray job and some farkels!
Much rather buy the new BMW scooter, now there is a awesome bike, way better buy than this old girls shopping trolley!

You forgot OVER Weight  :imaposer: Still a fatty wannabe DS roadbike. Sheep in sheeps really ugly clothing!

Fixed!

Good grief it's hideous!

and that from a tractor driver  :imaposer:
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: Joyrider1 on January 24, 2012, 11:56:44 pm
I likeit...

3 things you probably wont need with it.

1) DUCT TAPE
2) WD 40
3) HAMMER
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: BiG DoM on January 25, 2012, 12:05:35 am
I likeit...

3 things you probably wont need with it.

1) DUCT TAPE
2) WD 40
3) HAMMER

Fixed 3 4 things you probably wont need with it.  :imaposer:

1) DUCT TAPE
2) WD 40
3) HAMMER
4) BALLS

So sad that this is just another example of the global economic crisis in the motorcycle sector of old mutton being dressed up as lamb - no new R&D, no new innovation or product!? Just like making soup out of leftovers  :eek7:
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: IDR on January 25, 2012, 12:29:09 am
I disagree there though. They were IDIOTS to discontinue one of their best-selling models in the hope that customers would trade up to the F650GS twin. Think they lost serious market share.

As supposedly under-powered as it may be, they are reliable, capable and very frugal. Great bikes, ESPECIALLY as a commuter.
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: BiG DoM on January 25, 2012, 12:33:28 am
I disagree there though. They were IDIOTS to discontinue one of their best-selling models in the hope that customers would trade up to the F650GS twin. Think they lost serious market share.

As supposedly under-powered as it may be, they are reliable, capable and very frugal. Great bikes, ESPECIALLY as a commuter.

Ja you said it! A BMW badged Vuka?  :mwink:

(sorry as a BMW fan I am really being forced to play Devils Advocate with their latest window dressing)
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: Joyrider1 on January 25, 2012, 12:49:30 am
I disagree there though. They were IDIOTS to discontinue one of their best-selling models in the hope that customers would trade up to the F650GS twin. Think they lost serious market share.

As supposedly under-powered as it may be, they are reliable, capable and very frugal. Great bikes, ESPECIALLY as a commuter.

Exactly.... Good bike to start Swambo with... and she doesn't even need balls to start off with.... :imaposer:
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: White Rhino on January 25, 2012, 06:14:59 am
The Old Dakar was really great - considered an Icon by many;
It's welcomed back; but as stated, 14l fuel capacity without other practical options, won't see this Icon deep in Africa.
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: Dwerg on January 25, 2012, 06:40:02 am
I quite like it. Wouldn't mind trading my 650GS for that. Wonder if it will be possible to fit the old models' tank?
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: BennNevis on January 25, 2012, 06:45:51 am
I could still buy 2 KLR's for the price of one of these... :pot: :peepwall:

Exactly,but you will have two klr's
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: Plaashaas on January 25, 2012, 07:09:29 am
Well my name is Plaashaas and I like it

agreed on weight
range will be much much more than 300km
Hopefully Husky will do something better
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: BiG DoM on January 25, 2012, 07:42:34 am
Unfortunately I think BMW is going to f*+k Husky up - try and put their same Chinese Rotax engines in there with a red paint job!  :eek7: Do not hold your breath.  :o

Hey this scoot is very near the 200kg mark  ??? What they thinking???
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: lecap on January 25, 2012, 08:07:32 am
Still no fork boots, a smaller tank and (I'm guessing) still no seals to protect the steering head bearings.

A little bit of effort could have put BMW back into the race. I'm not even thinking as far as shaving off a few kilos or upgrading the suspension.

But look it's got different colours and some new plastic bits and the clocks are new too. Yipee!

The relaunch of the Dakar was probably the best idea anyone had at BMW in decades.
The execution of the move was anyhow done in the worst possible way.

Just another epic BMW fail ::)
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: Adventurer on January 25, 2012, 08:17:16 am
Love it or hate it, the BMW 650 GS single cylinder was bullet proof, the weapon of choice for Trans Africa trips, very economical, and tough. Yes, it a few issues, but only one with the potential to leave you stranded, the water pump gears.
Yes, it is relatively heavy, but how many actually use it in such a way that weight is an issue? The popularity of this bike before it was discontinued says a lot about how good they are. There is only one other real option for Trans Africa trips, the Yamaha Tenere Z, and that is mainly because of it's bigger fuel tank.
This issue of the supposed 14L tank, the specs say 14L standing, but I'm assuming that excludes the 3L reserve, making it 17L, the same as the previous models....but lets wait and see, it is being relaunched later in February.
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: LeonDude on January 25, 2012, 08:18:45 am
911
Quote
But it's only this and the Tenere that is available in the real D/S long distance travel market.

Eina Michnus, so I guess the rest of us who do long distance touring without those two bikes are complete failures then, because we are using the wrong bikes.

Have you seriously tried EVERY ONE of the other bikes before making that statement? My 6 year old KLR wich is moeg beats that brand new BMW hands down by simply having a 23L fuel tank.
/911
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: the_wes on January 25, 2012, 08:28:28 am
As some have already said the Dakar was a hugely popular bike. Sure, it wasn't great in technical terrain, but that's not really it's forte, now is it? Ask Michnus and company what a Dakar is good for - trekking across Africa. Bulletproof with 10 000km service intervals, comfortable for a single and able to be packed to the ceiling.

By the way, the Sertao is not quite simply a re-dressed Dakar. The engine in it is NOT the old F650 single, but rather the version of it found in the X-series bikes - which means it should be a little more lively.

Sure they could equip it with better suspension, etc - but what would it cost? And would someone that'd ride it like it needs better suspension not be better suited to a bike like the XR (R or L), KTM 690, Husky TE, etc??

I for one dig it, and if the time came to buy another "adventure" bike, I'd be choosing between this and the Yamaha Tenere  :thumleft:
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: Adventurer on January 25, 2012, 08:32:13 am
911
Quote
But it's only this and the Tenere that is available in the real D/S long distance travel market.

Eina Michnus, so I guess the rest of us who do long distance touring without those two bikes are complete failures then, because we are using the wrong bikes.

Have you seriously tried EVERY ONE of the other bikes before making that statement? My 6 year old KLR wich is moeg beats that brand new BMW hands down by simply having a 23L fuel tank.
/911


And a litre of threadlock.... :peepwall: :biggrin:

But you're right Leondude, the KLR has often been the weapon of choice for long trips, quite often by the yanks too. Quite recently there was a father and son that did Cairo up the west coast, the harder way to go...
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: The Rock on January 25, 2012, 08:37:50 am
where have you guys been?  :peepwall: >:D

http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=80367.0

http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=80906.0

http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=80223.0

http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=80068.0

http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=88199.0

 :deal:
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: ChrisL - DUSTRIDERS on January 25, 2012, 08:43:21 am
How about the mods merge all the freds about the SerDakkie into one. :mwink: :deal:
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: Adventurer on January 25, 2012, 08:43:52 am
Eish....you got me there....and there I thought I'd beaten you all to it for once.... :-[.ah well, I will be going on the launch, if that counts... :biggrin:
Maybe I didn't find it first on the internet, but I'll be one of the first to ride it.... 8)
I'll verify the tank capacity....another thing, the ice cream scoop is gone......kewl...
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: Adventurer on January 25, 2012, 08:45:41 am
http://www.motorcyclespecs.co.za/model/bmw/bmw_f650gs_Sertao%2012.htm


'Mmm, these specs quote the tank size as 17.3L......same as the previous one... 8)
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: LeonDude on January 25, 2012, 08:46:10 am
Eish....you got me there....and there I thought I'd beaten you all to it for once.... :-[.ah well, I will be going on the launch, if that counts... :biggrin:
Maybe I didn't find it first on the internet, but I'll be one of the first to ride it.... 8)
I'll verify the tank capacity....another thing, the ice cream scoop is gone......kewl...
Great, here comes another "Guess what I've got for the weekend" thread by Adventurer.
 :P






 :biggrin:
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: Dwerg on January 25, 2012, 08:47:09 am
http://www.motorcyclespecs.co.za/model/bmw/bmw_f650gs_Sertao%2012.htm


'Mmm, these specs quote the tank size as 17.3L......same as the previous one... 8)

Can't see why they'd leave everything the same but change the tank size
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: Adventurer on January 25, 2012, 08:48:36 am
Eish....you got me there....and there I thought I'd beaten you all to it for once.... :-[.ah well, I will be going on the launch, if that counts... :biggrin:
Maybe I didn't find it first on the internet, but I'll be one of the first to ride it.... 8)
I'll verify the tank capacity....another thing, the ice cream scoop is gone......kewl...
Great, here comes another "Guess what I've got for the weekend" thread by Adventurer.
 :P






 :biggrin:


No, I don't get to keep it after the launch unfortunately... :biggrin:
But maybe later, after they're on the shop floors...
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: Snafu on January 25, 2012, 08:50:15 am
I dont know how this can be called an epic fail?

Brilliant idea to bring it back, more competition in the single cylinder segment
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: Cracker on January 25, 2012, 08:52:41 am
911
Quote
But it's only this and the Tenere that is available in the real D/S long distance travel market.

Eina Michnus, so I guess the rest of us who do long distance touring without those two bikes are complete failures then, because we are using the wrong bikes.

Have you seriously tried EVERY ONE of the other bikes before making that statement? My 6 year old KLR wich is moeg beats that brand new BMW hands down by simply having a 23L fuel tank.
/911



And a litre of threadlock.... :peepwall: :biggrin:

But you're right Leondude, the KLR has often been the weapon of choice for long trips, quite often by the yanks too. Quite recently there was a father and son that did Cairo up the west coast, the harder way to go...

Maybe we're looking at this the wrong way. Instead of discussing what bikes will be good for such long, arduous trips, we should ask which bike wouldn't you take.

I would probably take any DS bike but for a KTM 640 or 690.

The BM looks cool - but I wouldn't buy one.
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: Plaashaas on January 25, 2012, 08:54:49 am
911
Quote
But it's only this and the Tenere that is available in the real D/S long distance travel market.

Eina Michnus, so I guess the rest of us who do long distance touring without those two bikes are complete failures then, because we are using the wrong bikes.

Have you seriously tried EVERY ONE of the other bikes before making that statement? My 6 year old KLR wich is moeg beats that brand new BMW hands down by simply having a 23L fuel tank.
/911



And a litre of threadlock.... :peepwall: :biggrin:

But you're right Leondude, the KLR has often been the weapon of choice for long trips, quite often by the yanks too. Quite recently there was a father and son that did Cairo up the west coast, the harder way to go...

Maybe we're looking at this the wrong way. Instead of discussing what bikes will be good for such long, arduous trips, we should ask which bike wouldn't you take.

I would probably take any DS bike but for a KTM 640 or 690.

The BM looks cool - but I wouldn't buy one.

agreed horses for courses 70/30 bike not like 640 that is a 1/99 bike
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: Pleco on January 25, 2012, 09:02:07 am
Two good things here.

Rubicon wants the older one, and this launch will drop the older ones' price.

By the sounds of it, its considered a good bike for a girl. (unfortunately she does ride in the sand, so the suspension would need some upgrade)
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: badseed on January 25, 2012, 09:19:05 am
Cracker , take your head out of your arse mate. Why exclude the two finest dual purpose bikes ever made. The 690 is about 40kg's lighter than the 650 BM, has a much higher cruising speed and if you got stuck on a snotty mud soaked African road you could ride it out but the BM would need a truck or simply just sink. Just accept the KTM's get ridden way harder and the odd one brakes now and then because they get used for things meant only for enduro bikes which if you attempted on the BM either you or your brick would fall apart instantly.
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: cocky on January 25, 2012, 09:22:19 am
I dont know how this can be called an epic fail?

Brilliant idea to bring it back, more competition in the single cylinder segment

Competition for what? It is a great commuter, that is it!
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: Dwerg on January 25, 2012, 09:24:42 am
I dont know how this can be called an epic fail?

Brilliant idea to bring it back, more competition in the single cylinder segment

Competition for what? It is a great commuter, that is it!

Vir hoe meeste ouens hier hulle bikes gebruik is hy ook fine vir lang grond toere en Sani en so. Sal hom nie ry soos ek my 640 die naweek op die trein spoor paaie gejaag het nie. Ek sal of myself kis val of die bike in die helfte breek  >:D
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: ChrisL - DUSTRIDERS on January 25, 2012, 09:26:18 am
I dont know how this can be called an epic fail?

Brilliant idea to bring it back, more competition in the single cylinder segment

Competition for what? It is a great commuter, that is it!
From one African town to the other via dirt.
Cannot compare a 690 with this bike. A 690 is an Enduro bike. The SerDakkie is DS.

my 2c
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: cloudgazer on January 25, 2012, 09:30:37 am
Two good things here.

Rubicon wants the older one, and this launch will drop the older ones' price.

By the sounds of it, its considered a good bike for a girl. (unfortunately she does ride in the sand, so the suspension would need some upgrade)

.... and thats why I'm not happy about this new bike.
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: Snafu on January 25, 2012, 09:33:04 am
I dont know how this can be called an epic fail?

Brilliant idea to bring it back, more competition in the single cylinder segment

Competition for what? It is a great commuter, that is it!

I beg to differ, it is a very reliable DS bike, but if you are a riding god, stick to the 640 and 690 :)
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: oo7 on January 25, 2012, 09:40:05 am
<yawn>

While this may be the thinking man's adventure bike (fuel capacity aside), it remains a fugly and a boring one at that.
(But that of course is my personal, un-asked for and clearly uninformed opinion)

 :biggrin:

Why oh why would BEE EM bring this boy back? Will it really boost sales that much?

For ninety grand one could get some serious equipment that would allow for instant involuntary testicle turning . . . certainly something that did not occur when I saw old Lazarus again.



Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: the_wes on January 25, 2012, 09:41:04 am
For ninety grand one could get some serious equipment that would allow for some instant involuntary testicle turning . . . certainly something that did not occur when I saw old Lazarus again.

I think this is going to retail for sub 80k. FYI  :mwink:
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: Dwerg on January 25, 2012, 09:42:52 am
For ninety grand one could get some serious equipment that would allow for some instant involuntary testicle turning . . . certainly something that did not occur when I saw old Lazarus again.

I think this is going to retail for sub 80k. FYI  :mwink:

How so? Isn't that what the normal G650GS goes for?
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: cloudgazer on January 25, 2012, 09:43:09 am
<yawn>

While this may be the thinking man's adventure bike (fuel capacity aside), it remains a fugly and a boring one at that.
(But that of course is my personal, un-asked for and clearly uninformed opinion)

 :biggrin:

Why oh why would BEE EM bring this boy back? Will it really boost sales that much?

For ninety grand one could get some serious equipment that would allow for instant involuntary testicle turning . . . certainly something that did not occur when I saw old Lazarus again.





thats not really the point of this bike.

As many have said if you're into endure type stuff, get something else... if you want excitement, get something else... if you want a reliable, very capable, touring machine, then you're looking in the right place.
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: Plaashaas on January 25, 2012, 09:48:43 am
<yawn>

While this may be the thinking man's adventure bike (fuel capacity aside), it remains a fugly and a boring one at that.
(But that of course is my personal, un-asked for and clearly uninformed opinion)

 :biggrin:

Why oh why would BEE EM bring this boy back? Will it really boost sales that much?

For ninety grand one could get some serious equipment that would allow for instant involuntary testicle turning . . . certainly something that did not occur when I saw old Lazarus again.





correct



same thing honda is doing with XR 650


Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: the_wes on January 25, 2012, 09:55:13 am

thats not really the point of this bike.

As many have said if you're into endure type stuff, get something else... if you want excitement, get something else... if you want a reliable, very capable, touring machine, then you're looking in the right place.


well said. decide what sort of riding you want to do, purchase accordingly. so many people slag off the dakar, but those same people ride a certain way, and the reason they slag it off is because it doesn't suit THEIR riding.

we all have different needs - buy the bike that suits yours  :thumleft:
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: tok-tokkie on January 25, 2012, 10:03:16 am
What is the price of the Tenere?  If you are objective when choosing a bike what would possibly make you select the BMW as against the Yamaha?

I have a Dakar.  The only thing that would make me consider it in preference is it has ABS. (But the BMW abs is way overweight & oversized & the switch arrangement is plain absurd.)  This bike is now an ancient design.  That they have not updated it mechanically reflects what a flop the X bikes were. (OK the oil return line has been sorted & alternator upgraded).  As leCap says the glaring fault of the unsealed steering bearings & chip protection for the forks persists.  Have they fitted a sealed battery or are they going to still leak battery acid onto the engine?  Bike is overweight and a bigger fueltank is required as Yamaha have set a new standard.
I dislike the BMW lop-sided headlights.
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: bonova on January 25, 2012, 10:03:22 am
It's not for everyone, but I think it looks quite nice? don't think i'd buy one tho - especially at the price. I do have alot of respect for the old ones (never seen a bike dropped and crashed so much and still have no issues!  :imaposer: ) and the new one is basically the old one. The engine - if it's the x-range one develops 2KW more i think?
I also really like the yamaha (especially for the tank!!!), but i'd be interested to see the power difference (and fuel consumption difference), cause i felt the Yamaha was less powerful than my x-challenge, but that might have been the weight (i do seem to remember the KW diff being about 5KW?)
Some people will buy yamaha's, some bmw, some kawasaki, honda, ktm etc etc...... and they will all get you where you want to go. buy what you like to ride, and don't diss what others ride, cause chances are, there is a rider on that bike who will outride you and your precious 'best bike in the world that can go anywhere on the sniff of an oil rag at an average of 200km/h)  :imaposer:  :imaposer:
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: oo7 on January 25, 2012, 10:10:10 am
What is the price of the Tenere?  If you are objective when choosing a bike what would possibly make you select the BMW as against the Yamaha?

That's what I would like to know as well.

Specifically buying and using a stock bike for long distance touring in the 650 class, surely the XT660 Tenere must be the obvious choice (assuming the price difference is not that big) between these two?
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: the_wes on January 25, 2012, 10:14:40 am
The engine - if it's the x-range one develops 2KW more i think?

it IS the X-range engine, I know this for a fact...
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: BiG DoM on January 25, 2012, 10:24:53 am
Different Strokes for Different Folks I guess? Just alot of strokes with the right hand here  ;)
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: Foot-Peg on January 25, 2012, 10:43:08 am
Jis Honne

Ek weet nie of die nuwe fiets so baie gaan verkoop soos sy voorganger nie maar...

As die tank 14l is, kan julle altyd n rooi Jerry-Can saam ry. Ek doen dit en like dit kwaai.  :laughing4:

My Pa en broer dink dis snaaks, maar ek dink hulle like dit ook!
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: lecap on January 25, 2012, 10:48:41 am
... with 10 000km service intervals...

By the way, the Sertao is not quite simply a re-dressed Dakar. The engine in it is NOT the old F650 single, but rather the version of it found in the X-series bikes - which means it should be a little more lively.

To compare apples wioth apples:

Service interval of the F650's is 10,000km

Service interval of the DR650SE and KLR650 (2008ff) is 6,000km uh oh!

The KLR's 6,000km schedule lists pretty much a thorough pre ride inspection (cleaning a serviceable air filter, checking your oil, brakes & tyres, pretty much the stuff you want to and have to do even more often.
The 6,000 interval for the Suzuki does list an oil change.
Do you really (want to) run your bikes oil for 10,000km ???
The (new) KLR's oil change interval is 12,000km (oh and spare me the oil burner crap). Does that mean the KLR is the best bike of the three?

Rather compare service cost over let's say 50,000km. On a DR you will need 4 oil filters @ R60, and four sets of 2 spark plugs at R70 a tot. Plus 20l of oil, 2sets of chains & sprockets and one or two sets of brake pads.

Compared with the F650GS feel free to add one fuel pressure regulator @ R1,3k, two sets of steering head bearings with some 3 hours of labour each for fitment and adjustment, valve shims and if you're really lucky a set of water pump seals, and impeller & gears also with fitment. Looking at oil. You will save a few litres of oil though ::)

You can service the DR with the two tappet covers in your slim fit denim's pockets and the rest that needs to come off in the dirt on the side of the road. All you need is a feeler gauge and standard tools. No micrometers, no valve shims, no torque wrenches.

Now tell me more about service intervals and which one you think is most suitable for transcontinental travel. Whichever bike you take and regardless of route choices you will have to do one major service between the Cape and Europe.


Re the engine: The X series bikes had significantly different exhausts and intake systems. The conclusion it has the X engine = it's got as much power as the X is not valid as long as it's got the Dakars exhaust and airbox. Throttle response of the Sertao might and hopefully will be better than the old Dakar since afaik they use the X series (or at least updated) engine management.
I do not know if there is significant and performance activemechanical differences between the X650 and the F650 single (read compression, combustion chamber, valve size, port shape, piston weight, balancer weight etc.)
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: the_wes on January 25, 2012, 10:49:21 am
is IS 14l according to the BMW site. a bit of an oversight on BMW's part - build an "adventure" bike, then shave 3 litres off its tank capacity. The Tenere's tank is 22l, by the way...
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: the_wes on January 25, 2012, 10:51:23 am

Re the engine: The X series bikes had significantly different exhausts and intake systems. The conclusion it has the X engine = it's got as much power as the X is not valid as long as it's got the Dakars exhaust and airbox. Throttle response of the Sertao might and hopefully will be better than the old Dakar since afaik they use the X series (or at least updated) engine management.
I do not know if there is significant and performance activemechanical differences between the X650 and the F650 single (read compression, combustion chamber, valve size, port shape, piston weight, balancer weight etc.)


I didn't say it'd be as powerful as the X series - just that it should be more lively. tell you what, I'll go ride the G650 GS (the non-Sertao version) and report back  :thumleft:
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: IDR on January 25, 2012, 10:53:12 am
is IS 14l according to the BMW site. a bit of an oversight on BMW's part - build an "adventure" bike, then shave 3 litres off its tank capacity. The Tenere's tank is 22l, by the way...

As is the >2008 KLR's
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: Foot-Peg on January 25, 2012, 10:55:00 am
Dit klimk vir my lecap is mal oor die nuweling in BMW se stal... :3some:
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: badseed on January 25, 2012, 11:05:38 am
Honda XR650L R50.000
BMW 650 Serato R85/90.00.
Am I missing something other than that the XR is a real dual sport bike?
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: Pleco on January 25, 2012, 11:23:22 am
Honda XR650L R50.000
BMW 650 Serato R85/90.00.
Am I missing something other than that the XR is a real dual sport bike?

Not the same poser value as the BMW.  :peepwall:

Most of us cannot afford the BMW price tag / Service costs / parts costs etc, but its got the poser value. If I had the money, I would buy the BMW, and convert / upgrade it until it can ride offroad like an XR!  :ricky:

Nothing looks more the part than a full touratech fitted BMW. But you will have to win the LOTTO. Probably twice!  :thumleft:
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: Plaashaas on January 25, 2012, 11:32:24 am
Wait wait I know .....if u dont like it ......


dont buy it
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: lecap on January 25, 2012, 11:38:24 am
Wait wait I know .....if u dont like it ......


dont buy it

This is not really about buy or don't buy but about BMW having performed rather poor and missed the opportunity to sort out flaws before relaunching hte Dakar.
They decided to rather mask the flaws with some black paint, new clocks and a squinting headlight. A missed opportunity IMHO.

A polished turd is still a turd ::)
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: BiG DoM on January 25, 2012, 11:40:11 am
Honda XR650L R50.000
BMW 650 Serato R85/90.00.
Am I missing something other than that the XR is a real dual sport bike?

Not the same poser value as the BMW.  :peepwall:

Most of us cannot afford the BMW price tag / Service costs / parts costs etc, but its got the poser value. If I had the money, I would buy the BMW, and convert / upgrade it until it can ride offroad like an XR!  :ricky:

Nothing looks more the part than a full touratech fitted BMW. But you will have to win the LOTTO. Probably twice!  :thumleft:

Naah - IMHO if you are going to spend that sort of money for a mid size dually then you might as well put in a few more sheckles and get the KTM 690 Oryx - klaar. :3some:
(and this coming from a Beemerphile)
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: Pleco on January 25, 2012, 11:41:21 am
Honda XR650L R50.000
BMW 650 Serato R85/90.00.
Am I missing something other than that the XR is a real dual sport bike?

Not the same poser value as the BMW.  :peepwall:

Most of us cannot afford the BMW price tag / Service costs / parts costs etc, but its got the poser value. If I had the money, I would buy the BMW, and convert / upgrade it until it can ride offroad like an XR!  :ricky:

Nothing looks more the part than a full touratech fitted BMW. But you will have to win the LOTTO. Probably twice!  :thumleft:

Naah - IMHO if you are going to spend that sort of money for a mid size dually then you might as well put in a few more sheckles and get the KTM 690 Oryx - klaar. :3some:
(and this coming from a Beemerphile)

I suppose you will still need to win the LOTTO twice for that one as well?
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: DeeCeeBee on January 25, 2012, 11:41:45 am
 :imaposer:

Couldnt have said it better myself! Let the masses vote with their feet chaps. For my money, that would mean the nearest Honda dealer for a shiny new XR650 with oodles of farkles and still have change from 90k.

I take the comments about the poser value of a bmw on board, but are we riding here for fun and enjoyment or are we posing??  :mwink:
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: the_wes on January 25, 2012, 11:44:28 am
Honda XR650L R50.000
BMW 650 Serato R85/90.00.
Am I missing something other than that the XR is a real dual sport bike?

Not the same poser value as the BMW.  :peepwall:

Most of us cannot afford the BMW price tag / Service costs / parts costs etc, but its got the poser value. If I had the money, I would buy the BMW, and convert / upgrade it until it can ride offroad like an XR!  :ricky:

Nothing looks more the part than a full touratech fitted BMW. But you will have to win the LOTTO. Probably twice!  :thumleft:

Naah - IMHO if you are going to spend that sort of money for a mid size dually then you might as well put in a few more sheckles and get the KTM 690 Oryx - klaar. :3some:
(and this coming from a Beemerphile)

I suppose you will still need to win the LOTTO twice for that one as well?

3 times
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: Plaashaas on January 25, 2012, 11:47:09 am
Wait wait I know .....if u dont like it ......


dont buy it

This is not really about buy or don't buy but about BMW having performed rather poor and missed the opportunity to sort out flaws before relaunching hte Dakar.
They decided to rather mask the flaws with some black paint, new clocks and a squinting headlight. A missed opportunity IMHO.

A polished turd is still a turd ::)

Point made an accepted (turd a bit harsh):

Some okes like comfy 70/30 bikes with range of 300km plus -- so they got it right !

is it heavy yes !!! all bikes are farking heavy hell the 660 tenere weighs more than a 800GS and develops less KW than a Dakar so there are very very few light DP options......the only reasonably powerfull bike that comes close to that and is still light is the 690 but that is a 99/1 & balls to the wall bike and not really an Adventure bike

so cant compare the two

BM has 650s, 800, 1200GS&A and therfore nice range choices for most ----- they are not "a ready to race brand" and therfore the bike WILL mostly satisfy the need of the purchaser



Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: Dwerg on January 25, 2012, 11:51:48 am
:imaposer:

Couldnt have said it better myself! Let the masses vote with their feet chaps. For my money, that would mean the nearest Honda dealer for a shiny new XR650 with oodles of farkles and still have change from 90k.

I take the comments about the poser value of a bmw on board, but are we riding here for fun and enjoyment or are we posing??  :mwink:

My GS is now on 75 000kms and still doesn't use a drop of oil between services even though I've put it through some serious abuse. I can still ride it at 150-160 all day long. How many other single cylinder owners can say that?

If I only had 50k to spend I'd rather buy another 640 anyway  ;)
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: DeeCeeBee on January 25, 2012, 11:56:04 am
:imaposer:

Couldnt have said it better myself! Let the masses vote with their feet chaps. For my money, that would mean the nearest Honda dealer for a shiny new XR650 with oodles of farkles and still have change from 90k.

I take the comments about the poser value of a bmw on board, but are we riding here for fun and enjoyment or are we posing??  :mwink:

My GS is now on 75 000kms and still doesn't use a drop of oil between services even though I've put it through some serious abuse. I can still ride it at 150-160 all day long. How many other single cylinder owners can say that?

I wasnt talking about the reliability at all , all i was trying to say is that for the money i would go for something better suited to the adventure lifestyle as opposed to paying more for a bike with "poser: value as mentioned above.
No offense intended, just trying to add to the debate.

If I only had 50k to spend I'd rather buy another 640 anyway  ;)
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: the_wes on January 25, 2012, 11:57:11 am
I take the comments about the poser value of a bmw on board, but are we riding here for fun and enjoyment or are we posing??  :mwink:

There's much more to the Sertao / Dakar than just poser value. Comparing the XR650L to the Sertao - they are 2 different bikes - both are great in their own way. Both are bulletproof - but the Honda is going to be cheaper to buy and run, and handle better in tight stuff, where the Sertao will beat it on fuel economy, and run more comfortable over distance with a better seat and smoother engine.
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: DeeCeeBee on January 25, 2012, 11:57:49 am
ps:  A 640 wouls also be most welcome to sleep in my garage at night! :ricky:
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: White Rhino on January 25, 2012, 12:00:29 pm
Wait wait I know .....if u dont like it ......


dont buy it

This is not really about buy or don't buy but about BMW having performed rather poor and missed the opportunity to sort out flaws before relaunching hte Dakar.
They decided to rather mask the flaws with some black paint, new clocks and a squinting headlight. A missed opportunity IMHO.

A polished turd is still a turd ::)

Point made an accepted (turd a bit harsh):

Some okes like comfy 70/30 bikes with range of 300km plus -- so they got it right !

is it heavy yes !!! all bikes are farking heavy hell the 660 tenere weighs more than a 800GS and develops less KW than a Dakar so there are very very few light DP options......the only reasonably powerfull bike that comes close to that and is still light is the 690 but that is a 99/1 & balls to the wall bike and not really an Adventure bike

so cant compare the two

BM has 650s, 800, 1200GS&A and therfore nice range choices for most ----- they are not "a ready to race brand" and therfore the bike WILL mostly satisfy the need of the purchaser


Agree :thumleft: , often its good enough to evaluate based on primary needs rather than comparing feature for feature against another brand.

If you compare your wife's features against other woman, you would also find shortfalls  and be enticed to trade her in. And most likely get dumped or slapped if you were as vocal  :ricky:
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: Dwerg on January 25, 2012, 12:01:02 pm
No offence taken. Just saying it isn't all poser. The bike has its good points too  :deal:

:imaposer:

Couldnt have said it better myself! Let the masses vote with their feet chaps. For my money, that would mean the nearest Honda dealer for a shiny new XR650 with oodles of farkles and still have change from 90k.

I take the comments about the poser value of a bmw on board, but are we riding here for fun and enjoyment or are we posing??  :mwink:

My GS is now on 75 000kms and still doesn't use a drop of oil between services even though I've put it through some serious abuse. I can still ride it at 150-160 all day long. How many other single cylinder owners can say that?

I wasnt talking about the reliability at all , all i was trying to say is that for the money i would go for something better suited to the adventure lifestyle as opposed to paying more for a bike with "poser: value as mentioned above.
No offense intended, just trying to add to the debate.

If I only had 50k to spend I'd rather buy another 640 anyway  ;)
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: the_wes on January 25, 2012, 12:03:01 pm

If you compare your wife's features against other woman, you would also find shortfalls  and be enticed to trade her in. And most likely get dumped or slapped if you were as vocal  :ricky:


the grass is only greener on the other side because there's more cow poop to fertilise it  :mwink:
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: Plaashaas on January 25, 2012, 12:09:28 pm
Wait wait I know .....if u dont like it ......


dont buy it

This is not really about buy or don't buy but about BMW having performed rather poor and missed the opportunity to sort out flaws before relaunching hte Dakar.
They decided to rather mask the flaws with some black paint, new clocks and a squinting headlight. A missed opportunity IMHO.

A polished turd is still a turd ::)

Point made an accepted (turd a bit harsh):

Some okes like comfy 70/30 bikes with range of 300km plus -- so they got it right !

is it heavy yes !!! all bikes are farking heavy hell the 660 tenere weighs more than a 800GS and develops less KW than a Dakar so there are very very few light DP options......the only reasonably powerfull bike that comes close to that and is still light is the 690 but that is a 99/1 & balls to the wall bike and not really an Adventure bike

so cant compare the two

BM has 650s, 800, 1200GS&A and therfore nice range choices for most ----- they are not "a ready to race brand" and therfore the bike WILL mostly satisfy the need of the purchaser


Agree :thumleft: , often its good enough to evaluate based on primary needs rather than comparing feature for feature against another brand.

If you compare your wife's features against other woman, you would also find shortfalls  and be enticed to trade her in. And most likely get dumped or slapped if you were as vocal  :ricky:



 :thumleft:

we all think we can handle a porn stars but most of us rides bikes like w@nkers and not its full potential

Its 90% the man not the bike

Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: alanB on January 25, 2012, 12:39:36 pm
Quote
This is not really about buy or don't buy but about BMW having performed rather poor and missed the opportunity to sort out flaws before relaunching hte Dakar.
They decided to rather mask the flaws with some black paint, new clocks and a squinting headlight. A missed opportunity IMHO.

I agree.  

BMW have the resources to supply much better bikes than this in this market segment.  Serving more of the same from 20 years ago is a cop out IMO and a bit of an insult to their very loyal customer base IMO.

They seem to be relying on superficial stuff like looks, paint and revised plastics to sell their bikes lately - which is a cop out, they could do better - we all know that.

The Dakar was a good bike (admittedly adapted from an Aprillia Pegaso who should deserve some credit) when it was first launched.  But that was a long time ago.  Is there really nothing more that can be done to the thing other than change the superficials?

To me its as if BMW are confused and don't know what to do in this segment so have just have decided to do nothing, because their bikes are selling!  That "if it aint broke dont fix it" approach is all very well but that's what lead to Harley Davidson progressively becoming less capable bikes (at one stage they were used competitively as racing bikes just look at On Any Sunday for eg) until the only real purpose of a Harley is to pose.  BMW owe their customers more than that IMO.

Maybe they were shocked by the lack of success of the X range and now have over compensated at managerial levels by retreating into the past?  But its still a cop out!  What CEO of any dynamic company would be happy with that strategy?
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: bonova on January 25, 2012, 12:47:56 pm
Wait wait I know .....if u dont like it ......


dont buy it

They decided to rather mask the flaws with some black paint, new clocks and a squinting headlight. A missed opportunity IMHO.


with this i agree completely - they can def improve on a number of issues that the old one had.  :thumleft:
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: Dwerg on January 25, 2012, 01:01:26 pm
Quote
This is not really about buy or don't buy but about BMW having performed rather poor and missed the opportunity to sort out flaws before relaunching hte Dakar.
They decided to rather mask the flaws with some black paint, new clocks and a squinting headlight. A missed opportunity IMHO.

I agree.  

BMW have the resources to supply much better bikes than this in this market segment.  Serving more of the same from 20 years ago is a cop out IMO and a bit of an insult to their very loyal customer base IMO.

They seem to be relying on superficial stuff like looks, paint and revised plastics to sell their bikes lately - which is a cop out, they could do better - we all know that.

The Dakar was a good bike (admittedly adapted from an Aprillia Pegaso who should deserve some credit) when it was first launched.  But that was a long time ago.  Is there really nothing more that can be done to the thing other than change the superficials?

To me its as if BMW are confused and don't know what to do in this segment so have just have decided to do nothing, because their bikes are selling!  That "if it aint broke dont fix it" approach is all very well but that's what lead to Harley Davidson progressively becoming less capable bikes (at one stage they were used competitively as racing bikes just look at On Any Sunday for eg) until the only real purpose of a Harley is to pose.  BMW owe their customers more than that IMO.

Maybe they were shocked by the lack of success of the X range and now have over compensated at managerial levels by retreating into the past?  But its still a cop out!  What CEO of any dynamic company would be happy with that strategy?


How is it a cop out from BMW if they remain the highest selling brand in the DS market? If I were their CEO I'd fire anyone that tries to change that  :deal:
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: Karel Kat on January 25, 2012, 01:05:21 pm
But it's only this and the Tenere that is available in the real D/S long distance travel market.



Eish, Michnus, what is it with you and VW Golfs and KLR's? Don't you like poor people?  ;)
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: Pleco on January 25, 2012, 01:08:38 pm
But it's only this and the Tenere that is available in the real D/S long distance travel market.



Eish, Michnus, what is it with you and VW Golfs and KLR's? Don't you like poor Frugal people?  ;)

Fixed.
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: alanB on January 25, 2012, 01:29:27 pm
Quote
How is it a cop out from BMW if they remain the highest selling brand in the DS market? If I were their CEO I'd fire anyone that tries to change that 

Well if you are happy to buy a bike simply because BMW sell a lot of them then its all perfect  :thumleft:

If however you expect a company like BMW to do what they can to give you the best bikes they can in each sector, well thats a different story. 

If I was their CEO I would be looking for someone to fire over this because it shows extreme lack of leadership and vision and ability to lead the market, especially because they had a massive lead in this sector a long time ago - they invented the GS sector - which was brilliant.  But sitting around on you laurels is a sure way to have a rude awakening in the future, competitors don't sit still just because you are.  The lead that had is no more, many other manufactures are now active in this segment with arguably better offerings.

Launching the same bike as your  "new model" and relying simply on your current market leader position, wouldn't cut it in my book.
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: BlueBull2007 on January 25, 2012, 02:03:55 pm
Love it or hate it, the BMW 650 GS single cylinder was bullet proof, the weapon of choice for Trans Africa trips, very economical, and tough. Yes, it a few issues, but only one with the potential to leave you stranded, the water pump gears.
Yes, it is relatively heavy, but how many actually use it in such a way that weight is an issue? The popularity of this bike before it was discontinued says a lot about how good they are. There is only one other real option for Trans Africa trips, the Yamaha Tenere Z, and that is mainly because of it's bigger fuel tank.
This issue of the supposed 14L tank, the specs say 14L standing, but I'm assuming that excludes the 3L reserve, making it 17L, the same as the previous models....but lets wait and see, it is being relaunched later in February.

 ;D :D I think I sense Adventurer actually feeling a bit
 sorry for BMW.  :imaposer: For a KTM nut - Good on ya!
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: Kaboef on January 25, 2012, 02:16:34 pm
We wouldnt have had this discussion if BMW beefed up the front forks, made the tank 22liters, and got rid of that farking ridiculous headlight.

The Dakkie is a proven design in it's market segment, but you HAVE to innovate, even if you re-launch an old model.

Then you can charge R90k for it and no-one will complain.

Slapping new plastics on is nice, but for us that know a thing or two about bikes, it's not enough.

But it will be a hit with first-time buyers because of price, heritage and after-sales service.



Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: the_wes on January 25, 2012, 02:21:37 pm
We wouldnt have had this discussion if BMW beefed up the front forks, made the tank 22liters, and got rid of that farking ridiculous headlight.

The Dakkie is a proven design in it's market segment, but you HAVE to innovate, even if you re-launch an old model.

Then you can charge R90k for it and no-one will complain.

Slapping new plastics on is nice, but for us that know a thing or two about bikes, it's not enough.

But it will be a hit with first-time buyers because of price, heritage and after-sales service.





You are right - we'd be having a very different discussion. Everybody would be lambasting BMW for putting a R90k price tag on a single  :deal:

Everyone has a gripe - except those that actually own or have owned a Dakar  :imaposer:
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: cloudgazer on January 25, 2012, 02:24:40 pm
We wouldnt have had this discussion if BMW beefed up the front forks, made the tank 22liters, and got rid of that farking ridiculous headlight.

The Dakkie is a proven design in it's market segment, but you HAVE to innovate, even if you re-launch an old model.

Then you can charge R90k for it and no-one will complain.

Slapping new plastics on is nice, but for us that know a thing or two about bikes, it's not enough.

But it will be a hit with first-time buyers because of price, heritage and after-sales service.





You are right - we'd be having a very different discussion. Everybody would be lambasting BMW for putting a R90k price tag on a single  :deal:

Everyone has a gripe - except those that actually own or have owned a Dakar  :imaposer:

Agree with both.

But the bike is aimed at first time buyers... for people that know a thing or two about bikes, know they'll need to farkle it.
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: the_wes on January 25, 2012, 02:32:03 pm
We wouldnt have had this discussion if BMW beefed up the front forks, made the tank 22liters, and got rid of that farking ridiculous headlight.

The Dakkie is a proven design in it's market segment, but you HAVE to innovate, even if you re-launch an old model.

Then you can charge R90k for it and no-one will complain.

Slapping new plastics on is nice, but for us that know a thing or two about bikes, it's not enough.

But it will be a hit with first-time buyers because of price, heritage and after-sales service.





You are right - we'd be having a very different discussion. Everybody would be lambasting BMW for putting a R90k price tag on a single  :deal:

Everyone has a gripe - except those that actually own or have owned a Dakar  :imaposer:

Agree with both.

But the bike is aimed at first time buyers... for people that know a thing or two about bikes, know they'll need to farkle it.

everyone bitches about suspension - but of the 100 people that bitch about the dakar's suspension - 10 people will maybe buy it. of those 10 people - 1 will ride it in such a way that the suspension reaches its limits. that 1 person can then spend the extra 15k to sort it out  :pot:

besides, to be quite honest, if you find yourself reaching the maximum of a bike's ability you have bought the wrong bike. the day I realised my Dakar couldn't do what I wanted it to, I changed bikes and was happy - but then I did a trippie on my XChallenge and I missed the comfort of the Dakar a bit. No bike will do it all, how many times must it be said?

having said that, yes, you could fault the Dakar's weight and nicer suspension would be great... but why are dual sport riders prepared to spend thousands to get a more stripped down DS bike (like a KTM 690) to a more tour friendly setup, but not prepared to spend the same on a porky pie like the dakar to make it more aggro?
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: ChrisL - DUSTRIDERS on January 25, 2012, 02:55:37 pm
We wouldnt have had this discussion if BMW beefed up the front forks, made the tank 22liters, and got rid of that farking ridiculous headlight.

The Dakkie is a proven design in it's market segment, but you HAVE to innovate, even if you re-launch an old model.

Then you can charge R90k for it and no-one will complain.

Slapping new plastics on is nice, but for us that know a thing or two about bikes, it's not enough.

But it will be a hit with first-time buyers because of price, heritage and after-sales service.





You are right - we'd be having a very different discussion. Everybody would be lambasting BMW for putting a R90k price tag on a single  :deal:

Everyone has a gripe - except those that actually own or have owned a Dakar  :imaposer:

Agree with both.

But the bike is aimed at first time buyers... for people that know a thing or two about bikes, know they'll need to farkle it.

everyone bitches about suspension - but of the 100 people that bitch about the dakar's suspension - 10 people will maybe buy it. of those 10 people - 1 will ride it in such a way that the suspension reaches its limits. that 1 person can then spend the extra 15k to sort it out  :pot:

besides, to be quite honest, if you find yourself reaching the maximum of a bike's ability you have bought the wrong bike. the day I realised my Dakar couldn't do what I wanted it to, I changed bikes and was happy - but then I did a trippie on my XChallenge and I missed the comfort of the Dakar a bit. No bike will do it all, how many times must it be said?

having said that, yes, you could fault the Dakar's weight and nicer suspension would be great... but why are dual sport riders prepared to spend thousands to get a more stripped down DS bike (like a KTM 690) to a more tour friendly setup, but not prepared to spend the same on a porky pie like the dakar to make it more aggro?
Spot on Wes :thumleft:
No matter what the pro's or cons or this bke is someone will buy it.
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: nemodakar on January 25, 2012, 03:02:24 pm
It's amazing how many people are standing in line to have a go at the Dakar. How many has actually ridden, or in the least , owned one?

The Wes nailed it. It is a very under estimated bike and very few can actually ask more than it can give. If applied for the proper purpose.

Pity BM did not use this chance to make the odd upgrade.
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: the_wes on January 25, 2012, 03:07:18 pm
Pity BM did not use this chance to make the odd upgrade.

well, the engine for one is an upgrade. but yeah, they could have done a bit more i guess.

what bugs me MORE is what's coming out of husqvarna's stable at the moment in the way of concept bikes......
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: alanB on January 25, 2012, 03:17:12 pm
Quote
Everyone has a gripe

Ja thats because I (and I suspect many others) expect a lot from BMW, they are the gorillas in the market place, they shouldn't be serving up left overs, just because they know people will buy them!

Its self defeatist to say OK the suspension needs upgrading but not everyone will use the improvements to their full extent so its OK for BMW not to address that in the new model etc.  

But anyway no point in arguing - I sold mine long ago  :ricky:
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: bonova on January 25, 2012, 04:15:09 pm
We wouldnt have had this discussion if BMW beefed up the front forks, made the tank 22liters, and got rid of that farking ridiculous headlight.

The Dakkie is a proven design in it's market segment, but you HAVE to innovate, even if you re-launch an old model.

Then you can charge R90k for it and no-one will complain.

Slapping new plastics on is nice, but for us that know a thing or two about bikes, it's not enough.

But it will be a hit with first-time buyers because of price, heritage and after-sales service.





You are right - we'd be having a very different discussion. Everybody would be lambasting BMW for putting a R90k price tag on a single  :deal:

Everyone has a gripe - except those that actually own or have owned a Dakar  :imaposer:

Agree with both.

But the bike is aimed at first time buyers... for people that know a thing or two about bikes, know they'll need to farkle it.

everyone bitches about suspension - but of the 100 people that bitch about the dakar's suspension - 10 people will maybe buy it. of those 10 people - 1 will ride it in such a way that the suspension reaches its limits. that 1 person can then spend the extra 15k to sort it out  :pot:

besides, to be quite honest, if you find yourself reaching the maximum of a bike's ability you have bought the wrong bike. the day I realised my Dakar couldn't do what I wanted it to, I changed  bikes and was happy - but then I did a trippie on my XChallenge and I missed the comfort of the Dakar a bit. No bike will do it all, how many times must it be said?

having said that, yes, you could fault the Dakar's weight and nicer suspension would be great... but why are dual sport riders prepared to spend thousands to get a more stripped down DS bike (like a KTM 690) to a more tour friendly setup, but not prepared to spend the same on a porky pie like the dakar to make it more aggro?
and then we took that Dakar of yours (unchanged - and on 30000km i think) and beat it to a pulp over 15000km of harsh roads through southern africa and lots count of the number of falls and HARD crashes, including one that ended in a broken foot for the owner, and it gave no serious problems at all, rode all the fesh-fesh and sand and mud and rocks, carried all the weight...etc etc.
So i agree: It has it's short comings, but It's plenty capable  :thumleft:
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: Adventurer on January 25, 2012, 04:30:31 pm
Love it or hate it, the BMW 650 GS single cylinder was bullet proof, the weapon of choice for Trans Africa trips, very economical, and tough. Yes, it a few issues, but only one with the potential to leave you stranded, the water pump gears.
Yes, it is relatively heavy, but how many actually use it in such a way that weight is an issue? The popularity of this bike before it was discontinued says a lot about how good they are. There is only one other real option for Trans Africa trips, the Yamaha Tenere Z, and that is mainly because of it's bigger fuel tank.
This issue of the supposed 14L tank, the specs say 14L standing, but I'm assuming that excludes the 3L reserve, making it 17L, the same as the previous models....but lets wait and see, it is being relaunched later in February.

 ;D :D I think I sense Adventurer actually feeling a bit
 sorry for BMW.  :imaposer: For a KTM nut - Good on ya!

Haha, you know me, I say it as it is, BMW do really make fantastic bikes, all depends what is required of them, often the wrong people have the wrong expectation of a bike, then say it is a kak bike, there are no kak bikes, there are just some that are more suited to a specific task than others, I don't ride a KTM because I think it is the best bike, it is just the best at what I want from a bike.
The Dakar is a legend IMO, yes it has certain weaknesses, but all bikes have weaknesses somewhere, yes, BMW could have done something with this or that with the revised 2012 version, but hey, why mess with something that works?
If I had to choose a trans - continent 2012 brand new bike, it would be a tough choice between the Dakar and the Tenere Z....
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: BiG DoM on January 25, 2012, 04:49:14 pm
hey you forgeting the KLR  :pot:
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: Adventurer on January 25, 2012, 04:53:40 pm
hey you forgeting the KLR  :pot:

Personally I would not consider the KLR, not that it would not do the distance, I would just not use it.
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: badseed on January 25, 2012, 05:21:53 pm
I still can't see the point in paying double the price of an XR or DR and getting nothing extra. Eight years ago I decided to try this dual sport thing and the obvious first port of call was Donfords BMW who gladly gave me a Dakar to take home and test. At the traffic light just beyond Donfords I almost fell over (see top heavy wide bike). The bike felt slow with scary cornering habits , so I popped in at Baas Attie up the road for a second opinion. We went through the bike and were disappointed by he poor finishes like cheap fasteners, cheap sprockets and chain, dodgy handlebars etc on an upmarket priced bike. Landed up with an XT660 (great bike ,460000kms in 2 years trouble free ) before a mate gave me a ride on a 950S.  Oh and after an hour with the Dakar I took it back a day early... Nuff said
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: Kaboef on January 25, 2012, 05:45:38 pm
I still can't see the point in paying double the price of an XR or DR and getting nothing extra. 

Not quite double.

And if you feel OK to compare air-cooled, carb-feb motors with water-cooled EFI motors, I can see why you dont see where the extra money went.
Not to mention vastly better brakes, ABS (if that's your thing) heated grips, excellent seat, OEM luggage options, comfort, technology, etc.

Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: 2StrokeDan on January 25, 2012, 07:04:39 pm
I still can't see the point in paying double the price of an XR or DR and getting nothing extra. 

Not quite double.

And if you feel OK to compare air-cooled, carb-feb motors with water-cooled EFI motors, I can see why you dont see where the extra money went.
Not to mention vastly better brakes, ABS (if that's your thing) heated grips, excellent seat, OEM luggage options, comfort, technology, etc.




Kaboef, why then is BMW's 1200 GSA more expensive than the Sten?
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: Adventurer on January 25, 2012, 07:13:55 pm
I still can't see the point in paying double the price of an XR or DR and getting nothing extra. 

Not quite double.

And if you feel OK to compare air-cooled, carb-feb motors with water-cooled EFI motors, I can see why you dont see where the extra money went.
Not to mention vastly better brakes, ABS (if that's your thing) heated grips, excellent seat, OEM luggage options, comfort, technology, etc.




Kaboef, why then is BMW's 1200 GSA more expensive than the Sten?

You should compasre the STEn price with the GS, not the GSA....and it's price has gone up....not good IMO.
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: LeonDude on January 25, 2012, 07:15:28 pm
Waars Michnus?  :peepwall:  :pot:
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: 2StrokeDan on January 25, 2012, 07:15:46 pm
The Dakar/Sertao is undoubtedly a very reliable workhorse, with very good[excellent] touring capability as far as the singles go. BUT, the BMW is basically a light make-over of an exsisting model, with a long production run behind it. The 660Z is a all-new design. To price the BM at the same level as the XTZ is certainly hoping that BMW fans are still blind.
The XR650L does [should not even feature here, it is a South American model with lower standard of finishing and an ashtmatic 32horsepower. What uncorking are you talking about that will allow this Honda to run with the others? Cannot be done.
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: Kaboef on January 25, 2012, 07:24:51 pm
I still can't see the point in paying double the price of an XR or DR and getting nothing extra. 

Not quite double.

And if you feel OK to compare air-cooled, carb-feb motors with water-cooled EFI motors, I can see why you dont see where the extra money went.
Not to mention vastly better brakes, ABS (if that's your thing) heated grips, excellent seat, OEM luggage options, comfort, technology, etc.




Kaboef, why then is BMW's 1200 GSA more expensive than the Sten?

Where in my post did I mention a 1200GSA or a Sten?   :dontknow:

A bit early in the evening for the strong stuff, Danie.   :nono:
 ;D ;D
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: RedWolf on January 25, 2012, 08:02:45 pm
I still can't see the point in paying double the price of an XR or DR and getting nothing extra. Eight years ago I decided to try this dual sport thing and the obvious first port of call was Donfords BMW who gladly gave me a Dakar to take home and test. At the traffic light just beyond Donfords I almost fell over (see top heavy wide bike). The bike felt slow with scary cornering habits , so I popped in at Baas Attie up the road for a second opinion. We went through the bike and were disappointed by he poor finishes like cheap fasteners, cheap sprockets and chain, dodgy handlebars etc on an upmarket priced bike. Landed up with an XT660 (great bike ,460000kms in 2 years trouble free ) before a mate gave me a ride on a 950S.  Oh and after an hour with the Dakar I took it back a day early... Nuff said

WOW, 460,000km on a xt660. well done :thumleft:
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: the_wes on January 25, 2012, 08:03:52 pm
I still can't see the point in paying double the price of an XR or DR and getting nothing extra. Eight years ago I decided to try this dual sport thing and the obvious first port of call was Donfords BMW who gladly gave me a Dakar to take home and test. At the traffic light just beyond Donfords I almost fell over (see top heavy wide bike). The bike felt slow with scary cornering habits , so I popped in at Baas Attie up the road for a second opinion. We went through the bike and were disappointed by he poor finishes like cheap fasteners, cheap sprockets and chain, dodgy handlebars etc on an upmarket priced bike. Landed up with an XT660 (great bike ,460000kms in 2 years trouble free ) before a mate gave me a ride on a 950S.  Oh and after an hour with the Dakar I took it back a day early... Nuff said

WOW, 460,000km on a xt660. well done :thumleft:

in 2 years nogal  :deal:
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: RedWolf on January 25, 2012, 08:05:51 pm
I still can't see the point in paying double the price of an XR or DR and getting nothing extra. Eight years ago I decided to try this dual sport thing and the obvious first port of call was Donfords BMW who gladly gave me a Dakar to take home and test. At the traffic light just beyond Donfords I almost fell over (see top heavy wide bike). The bike felt slow with scary cornering habits , so I popped in at Baas Attie up the road for a second opinion. We went through the bike and were disappointed by he poor finishes like cheap fasteners, cheap sprockets and chain, dodgy handlebars etc on an upmarket priced bike. Landed up with an XT660 (great bike ,460000kms in 2 years trouble free ) before a mate gave me a ride on a 950S.  Oh and after an hour with the Dakar I took it back a day early... Nuff said

WOW, 460,000km on a xt660. well done :thumleft:

in 2 years nogal  :deal:
Ja, probably slept on the bike aswell because he spent alot of time in that seat.. :imaposer:
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: 2StrokeDan on January 25, 2012, 08:56:05 pm
A poephol with one eye could see that Badseed made a mistake, 46 000kms in 2 years. Still a lot more than many others on here :mwink:
Kaboef, you justified the Dakar's higher price over the aircooled XR, because of it's watercooling and technology. Si I asked you why then the watercooled, high-tech Sten is cheaper than the GS, which is old aircooled tech?
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: RedWolf on January 25, 2012, 09:04:30 pm
A poephol with one eye could see that Badseed made a mistake, 46 000kms in 2 years. Still a lot more than many others on here :mwink:
Kaboef, you justified the Dakar's higher price over the aircooled XR, because of it's watercooling and technology. Si I asked you why then the watercooled, high-tech Sten is cheaper than the GS, which is old aircooled tech?
So, then that makes you the one eyed poephol.. :imaposer: :imaposer: :imaposer:
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: badseed on January 25, 2012, 09:29:50 pm
So I used an extra 0. Having poor eyesight is one thing , being a juvenile dick is another.
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: the_wes on January 25, 2012, 09:35:37 pm
O come now, we're just having a laugh. don't take it personally  :thumleft:
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: badseed on January 25, 2012, 09:46:13 pm
Now if it was a KTM then 460000 no problem
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: RedWolf on January 25, 2012, 09:51:40 pm
So I used an extra 0. Having poor eyesight is one thing , being a juvenile dick is another.

Sjoe, vinnig op jou perdjie..

Baie jammer hoor..
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: badseed on January 25, 2012, 09:57:07 pm
Cool mate . Sorry . Bit of overreaction. Must learn to take my own medicine
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: RedWolf on January 25, 2012, 10:14:12 pm
Cool mate . Sorry . Bit of overreaction. Must learn to take my own medicine
:thumleft:
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: BiG DoM on January 26, 2012, 12:24:40 am
Phew this new Darker is getting blood pressures up!  :D

I must say that at the end of the day I do think the scoot will sell - not in large numbers to hardcore DS riders, but sell nevertheless. It will trade on its existing reputation, poser looks, solid bulletproof Rotax engine, that it is a BMW and 'German' engineering not Japanese (sorry Dan) ... it is just a relaunched facelift as we know but there will also be many who will be discovering it (and DS riding) for the first time. I think it lacks R&D, innovation and vision but maybe we (myself incuded) are being too critical. Lets see how people vote with their feet.
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: White Rhino on January 26, 2012, 06:19:14 am
Phew this new Darker is getting blood pressures up!  :D

I must say that at the end of the day I do think the scoot will sell - not in large numbers to hardcore DS riders, but sell nevertheless. It will trade on its existing reputation, poser looks, solid bulletproof Rotax engine, that it is a BMW and 'German' engineering not Japanese (sorry Dan) ... it is just a relaunched facelift as we know but there will also be many who will be discovering it (and DS riding) for the first time. I think it lacks R&D, innovation and vision but maybe we (myself incuded) are being too critical. Lets see how people vote with their feet.

Amen brother. To new buyer and the untrained eye the new Sertao will appear like a new model. How will it be promoted, on it's lineage or on it's progression?
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: 2StrokeDan on January 26, 2012, 07:08:47 am
I know the Sertao will sell in big numbers, if it is not priced silly. BMW also knows that when they try go to more radical design, it does not appeal to the crosscut BMW buyer. Examples recently is the X-range and G model. BMW sells to the majority of people who just want a ordinary bike with ordinary looks and lots of back-up. As stated so often before on this forum, it really seems like a lot of BMW buyers would prefer something else, but the dealer back-up swings them to BMW.
So yes, this "Sertie"?? replacing the "Dakkie", will carry on with lots of entry-level riders that wants a reliable bike with excellent back-up.
German engineering has hopefully sorted the steering head bearings, the cylinder rear bolt and the waterpump shit :xxbah:
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: desert dueler on January 26, 2012, 07:25:36 am
on a tangent here, but with that name its still going to be called "the new dakar", doubt that name will take off
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: J-dog on January 26, 2012, 07:31:46 am
Just because all the good folks on this forum are hard-core riding gods with the need for rally-prepped bikes with the ability to compete both on the motor-cross track and the Dakar Rallye, it doesn't mean that the rest of the world is like that.

The BMW Dakar did, and will, sell in good volume to the mortal DS riders who inhabit the real world.
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: Battlestar on January 26, 2012, 07:56:37 am
Just because all the good folks on this forum are hard-core riding gods with the need for rally-prepped bikes with the ability to compete both on the motor-cross track and the Dakar Rallye, it doesn't mean that the rest of the world is like that.

The BMW Dakar did, and will, sell in good volume to the mortal DS riders who inhabit the real world.
OMG who are you and what have you done with J Dog  :eek7: :peepwall: :imaposer:
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: lecap on January 26, 2012, 08:18:01 am
We wouldnt have had this discussion if BMW beefed up the front forks, made the tank 22liters, and got rid of that farking ridiculous headlight.

The Dakkie is a proven design in it's market segment, but you HAVE to innovate, even if you re-launch an old model.

Then you can charge R90k for it and no-one will complain.

Slapping new plastics on is nice, but for us that know a thing or two about bikes, it's not enough.

But it will be a hit with first-time buyers because of price, heritage and after-sales service.





...
Everyone has a gripe - except those that actually own or have owned a Dakar  :imaposer:

I actually did own two. Plus an F650GS if that counts for anything :peepwall: :evil6:
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: the_wes on January 26, 2012, 08:22:01 am
We wouldnt have had this discussion if BMW beefed up the front forks, made the tank 22liters, and got rid of that farking ridiculous headlight.

The Dakkie is a proven design in it's market segment, but you HAVE to innovate, even if you re-launch an old model.

Then you can charge R90k for it and no-one will complain.

Slapping new plastics on is nice, but for us that know a thing or two about bikes, it's not enough.

But it will be a hit with first-time buyers because of price, heritage and after-sales service.





...
Everyone has a gripe - except those that actually own or have owned a Dakar  :imaposer:

I actually did own two. Plus an F650GS if that counts for anything :peepwall: :evil6:

fair enough  :thumleft:
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: BiG DoM on January 26, 2012, 08:42:07 pm

 BMW sells to the majority of people who just want a ordinary bike with ordinary looks and lots of back-up.


Ja chicks bikes hey Dan?
Sorry Dan but sometimes you just talk so much kaark I am sure you do not know what orifice to wype!  :laughing4:

...ordinary bike with ordinary looks? My ass (and hers)

Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: the_wes on January 26, 2012, 08:43:30 pm
those boots don't look very practical  :deal:
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: BiG DoM on January 26, 2012, 08:47:02 pm
Whose worried about practical ... and the sheets  >:D
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: badseed on January 26, 2012, 09:41:34 pm
Ordinary bike, ordinary looks except for stupid headlight
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: 2StrokeDan on January 26, 2012, 10:53:06 pm
Except for the stupid headlight, it............is a Jap superbike copy!!! Nice one Dom. Or should it be; nice Dom one? :imaposer:
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: BiG DoM on January 27, 2012, 05:57:15 am
footnote to Dan: think he was referring to the Newdak's ordinariness and headlight, not the world leading superbike!
(wiesnoukokkendom?)
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: Icemann on January 27, 2012, 10:12:58 am
 :peepwall:
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: the_wes on January 27, 2012, 10:14:14 am
congrats  :thumleft:
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: Biesie on January 27, 2012, 10:15:09 am
Jou ou bliksem !!!

Ek sal op die uitkyk wees  :thumleft:

Geluk  :thumleft: :thumleft:
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: ChrisL - DUSTRIDERS on January 27, 2012, 10:30:26 am
Baie baie geluk Iceman :thumleft:
Jy weet natuurlik by wie jy jou crashbars en centrestand kan kry :mwink: :deal:
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: Icemann on January 27, 2012, 11:02:00 am
Baie dankie manne.... lyk of ek 'n paar weke moet wag.... :drif:
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: michnus on January 27, 2012, 11:51:01 am
Baie dankie manne.... lyk of ek 'n paar weke moet wag.... :drif:

Lekker ou Ys! Nou ry net die damn ding anders kry n ander ou weer een oor 4 jaar met 10 kilo's op  :amazon:

 :biggrin: :thumleft:
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: Icemann on January 27, 2012, 01:39:48 pm
Baie dankie manne.... lyk of ek 'n paar weke moet wag.... :drif:

Lekker ou Ys! Nou ry net die damn ding anders kry n ander ou weer een oor 4 jaar met 10 kilo's op  :amazon:

 :biggrin: :thumleft:
:thumleft: :laughing4: BELOWE EK GAAN!!!!
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: Fuzzy Muzzy on January 27, 2012, 01:46:50 pm
R90k..  :eek7:

I will enjoy having a little laugh out loud every time I go past one.

Nice looking bike, I dig the styling, but sorry.. not at that price.
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: Moondog on January 27, 2012, 01:53:28 pm
R90k..  :eek7:

I will enjoy having a little laugh out loud every time I go past one.

Nice looking bike, I dig the styling, but sorry.. not at that price.

Well ...... actually just under 80K with discount - the heated grips and ABS are options  :deal:

Congrats Ice - enjoy!
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: BiG DoM on January 27, 2012, 02:05:12 pm
R90k..  :eek7:

I will enjoy having a little laugh out loud every time I go past one.

Nice looking bike, I dig the styling, but sorry.. not at that price.

Ja as I said I would be putting on my orange tinted sunglasses by the time it is the 90K mark on my bank balance....  :3some:
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: J-dog on January 27, 2012, 02:07:41 pm
KTM 690 circa 90k  ::)

mmm...tough choice between the two  :D
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: IceCreamMan on January 27, 2012, 02:12:00 pm
the day of the 90k thumper has long ago bene reached wit the tenere and the 690. okes must stop living in a time warp ... super ten is now 159k, gs 12 same ball park , gsa 170k plus

Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: michnus on January 27, 2012, 02:15:59 pm
the day of the 90k thumper has long ago bene reached wit the tenere and the 690. okes must stop living in a time warp ... super ten is now 159k, gs 12 same ball park , gsa 170k plus



presies  :thumleft:

The XR and KLR are both actually overpriced. With 30year old parts the moulds must be all quite old by now, they are suppose to sell them now for no more than R15000 odd each not the astronomical amount of R50k-R60k  :)
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: RobC on January 27, 2012, 02:26:24 pm
The XR and KLR are both actually overpriced. With 30year old parts the moulds must be all quite old by now, they are suppose to sell them now for no more than R15000 odd each not the astronomical amount of R50k-R60k  :)
No quibble there at all. Compared to what they sell for in the States we are being ripped off by KawaSA. :patch:
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: alanB on January 27, 2012, 04:25:11 pm
the day of the 90k thumper has long ago bene reached wit the tenere and the 690. okes must stop living in a time warp ... super ten is now 159k, gs 12 same ball park , gsa 170k plus



Next time you are wandering why we pay so much more than the rest of the world for bikes and cars, read what you wrote again - it contains all the answers.

Just saying...
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: Shaun500 on January 27, 2012, 07:04:32 pm
Looks nice.  Pity about small fuel tank. To me at first glance it looks "stripped down", in other words what the VW Polo Vivo is to the old Polo.  What's with the analogue speedo and digital rev counter?  Call me traditional, but it seems a odd layout.  It's aimed at the commuter market and not the D/S.  IMHO, you'll get better value/cost of ownership from a Yamaha 660Z Tenere'. :thumleft:
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: IceCreamMan on January 28, 2012, 12:04:11 pm
the day of the 90k thumper has long ago bene reached wit the tenere and the 690. okes must stop living in a time warp ... super ten is now 159k, gs 12 same ball park , gsa 170k plus



Next time you are wandering why we pay so much more than the rest of the world for bikes and cars, read what you wrote again - it contains all the answers.

Just saying...

"rest of the world"  - i dare say you may find the Tenere is cheaper here than some parts of europe and sounth america, its unobtanium in the usa ...so re think yr post in that regard. Yes, some countries are chaeaper but others are more expensive and some around the same ,....
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: DSNewbie on January 28, 2012, 02:11:43 pm
I want one too  :drif:
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: Aquatic on January 28, 2012, 03:43:01 pm
.
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: Fuzzy Muzzy on February 02, 2012, 10:14:31 pm
I want one too  :drif:

Pull out R90k and you can have one with a few extras..
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: BiG DoM on February 02, 2012, 10:29:00 pm
Or keep your hand on your wallet and cross the road to that orange building on the corner  O0
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: Karel Kat on February 06, 2012, 06:43:37 am
Ah, what's in a name? that which we call a Dakar
By any other name would be just as bland


(apologies William)
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: 2StrokeDan on February 06, 2012, 07:03:58 am
To those that are quick to defend the R90 000 asking price of the "new" Dakar, can you tell me where the BMW is better than the DR or even KLR? Do not tell me that it is a BMW, after all this is only an entry level BMW, and known as such.
R90 000 is way too expensive, especially seen against the small Tenere and the 690.
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: Fenderbender on February 06, 2012, 08:12:37 am
At that price its definitely not going to sell .
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: cloudgazer on February 06, 2012, 09:28:06 am
At that price its definitely not going to sell .

are you sure?
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: ChrisL - DUSTRIDERS on February 06, 2012, 09:30:18 am
At that price its definitely not going to sell .

are you sure?
It will sell. Maybe not in the high volumes it did before because times are tough with all but it will sell.
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: J-dog on February 06, 2012, 10:40:58 pm
Just because all the good folks on this forum are hard-core riding gods with the need for rally-prepped bikes with the ability to compete both on the motor-cross track and the Dakar Rallye, it doesn't mean that the rest of the world is like that.

The BMW Dakar did, and will, sell in good volume to the mortal DS riders who inhabit the real world.

 ;)
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: lecap on February 07, 2012, 08:38:39 am
Just because all the good folks on this forum are hard-core riding gods with the need for rally-prepped bikes with the ability to compete both on the motor-cross track and the Dakar Rallye, it doesn't mean that the rest of the world is like that.

The BMW Dakar did, and will, sell in good volume to the mortal DS riders who inhabit the real world.

 ;)
Those with a fat wallet.

The others buy KLR's DR's and XR's :imaposer:
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: adv on March 24, 2012, 02:06:53 pm
I've been lucky enough to spend plenty of time on the new GS (alloy wheels) and yesterday got the Sertao.

While they are so similar, they are also so far apart its actually unbelievable.

The suspension on the Sertao has loads more travel and the 21inch front makes it pretty good on the trails. The motor pulls pretty good for a single (better than the XR650L I had the last week or so) It also has more poke than the previous Dakar.

Gearing feels different. Im not 100 percent sure, but I think the Sertao is geared shorter. It wheelies a lot easier than the GS. You can get the bike up in second pretty easy, where the GS battled to do that.

At R89k, BMW is trying to sell a newbie rider a lifestyle, rather than just a motorcycle. "come and join our GS community" I saw on one of the posters. Is the 650 Sertao 2x better than the XR650L? No, its not, but its better setup from the get go. Nothing a R1000 screen and bigger fuel tank cant sort out. The previous bike was stupidly economical, I ran 230km on 10l, will have to see how this bike does.


The buyer of the Sertao, will probably not be in the market for a hard enduro bike like the 690 (which is about the same money) and the Sertao will look prettier than the DR, KLR and XRL. I dont want to call it a yuppie bike, but it sort of is. Looks over functionality and it clearly wins as a pretty bike.

As said previously, BMW already owns this market and from the sales figures, it will continue to do so, whether they are selling the 650 GS or the 650 GS Sertao.







Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: Captain Zef on March 24, 2012, 02:22:04 pm
R90k and still no fuel gauge ...  ::)

......At least the Yamaha 660 Tenere has got a fuel gauge

AND

a 23 liter tank 

AND

more pleasing on the eye (http://www.saforums.co.za/rlt/Smileys/default/ino.gif)

Yes the Yummie has a fuel gauge but it does not work!!!
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: Captain Zef on March 24, 2012, 02:23:22 pm
To those that are quick to defend the R90 000 asking price of the "new" Dakar, can you tell me where the BMW is better than the DR or even KLR? Do not tell me that it is a BMW, after all this is only an entry level BMW, and known as such.
R90 000 is way too expensive, especially seen against the small Tenere and the 690.

Buy a Yamaha for R86k much better.
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: Cheetah on March 24, 2012, 02:41:00 pm
Well said adv !!! Looking for a new scooter for my Missus. Will definately check this bike out  :biggrin:
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: adv on March 24, 2012, 02:50:01 pm
To those that are quick to defend the R90 000 asking price of the "new" Dakar, can you tell me where the BMW is better than the DR or even KLR? Do not tell me that it is a BMW, after all this is only an entry level BMW, and known as such.
R90 000 is way too expensive, especially seen against the small Tenere and the 690.

Buy a Yamaha for R86k much better.

Yes I agree with you one gazillion percent! The yammie is a better Adventure Bike. But from a poser point of view the Sertao will look better when parked outside News Cafe.  :pot:



Its about the lifestyle man  :imaposer:




Onto the fuel The Yamaha can do 400km to a tank. Bmw will probably do 250-280 with very very very very very (catch my drift) careful riding at 90km/h. 


Yamaha wins again
Bmw suspension feels better (my opinion) when I rode the yamaha at the launch, the suspension felt hardish with little travel.

Could have just been how it was setup as both of them have 210mm travel.

Both make the same power (48hp) with the Bmw beating it by 2nm torque (ja swaar..)

Bmw ready to ride at 193kg, Yammie is 183kg dry. So call it 210kg with fuel.

Top speed on a Gs is 170kph (flat box) I did vaguely see 166kph on a gravel road with the XT660Z  :imaposer:  this was at altitude so it could probably do 170 easy.


Personally, I think the Ten is over priced just as much as the Bmw is over priced. Bmw went to china for their new motors to bring costs down and what did they do? They put the price up. Ai cant win hey.


The BMW and Ten would sell much better around the 70-75k mark.


I would not buy either with my own money. Im waiting for KTM Cape tows ORYX II (with the low fender FFS)

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/s720x720/309942_10150631411444064_72060254063_9275460_1273216577_n.jpg)





Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: adv on March 24, 2012, 02:51:10 pm
Well said adv !!! Looking for a new scooter for my Missus. Will definately check this bike out  :biggrin:

Cheetah,

Have a look at the G650GS instead.

Its cheaper and your Mrs should be able to touch the ground with her feet. My Mrs (1.75) just touches the ground with her toes on this bike.
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: BlingKing on March 24, 2012, 02:52:46 pm
City Golf in disguise

Bwahahahahahaa   :imaposer: :imaposer: :imaposer:
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: Captain Zef on March 24, 2012, 02:56:53 pm
News cafe is for gat gabbas
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: BlingKing on March 24, 2012, 03:03:21 pm
Well said adv !!! Looking for a new scooter for my Missus. Will definately check this bike out  :biggrin:

Cheetah,

Have a look at the G650GS instead.

Its cheaper and your Mrs should be able to touch the ground with her feet. My Mrs (1.75) just touches the ground with her toes on this bike.

Bike height is no longer an issue with the WILBERS we can fit anyone on any bike, I have  different gals F800GS's that I am making shorter for them  :thumleft:
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: Cheetah on March 24, 2012, 03:06:05 pm
Thanks adv  :salut:
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: adv on March 24, 2012, 03:16:25 pm
Well said adv !!! Looking for a new scooter for my Missus. Will definately check this bike out  :biggrin:

Cheetah,

Have a look at the G650GS instead.

Its cheaper and your Mrs should be able to touch the ground with her feet. My Mrs (1.75) just touches the ground with her toes on this bike.

Bike height is no longer an issue with the WILBERS we can fit anyone on any bike, I have  different gals F800GS's that I am making shorter for them  :thumleft:

Hey Blingking.

Thats all great and everything, but the majority will probably buy it with a low seat from the dealer. You have guys moaning about spending 2k on crash bars and 2 k on center stands. I also think these guys will moan about the additional money to lower a bike  :thumleft:


Speaking of, the G650GS has a center stand, the Sertao does not.
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: Adventurer on March 24, 2012, 03:57:54 pm
Well said adv !!! Looking for a new scooter for my Missus. Will definately check this bike out  :biggrin:

Cheetah,

Have a look at the G650GS instead.

Its cheaper and your Mrs should be able to touch the ground with her feet. My Mrs (1.75) just touches the ground with her toes on this bike.

Bike height is no longer an issue with the WILBERS we can fit anyone on any bike, I have  different gals F800GS's that I am making shorter for them  :thumleft:

Hey Blingking.

Thats all great and everything, but the majority will probably buy it with a low seat from the dealer. You have guys moaning about spending 2k on crash bars and 2 k on center stands. I also think these guys will moan about the additional money to lower a bike  :thumleft:


Speaking of, the G650GS has a center stand, the Sertao does not.

No worries, I can supply a SW Motech centrestand, same version as the older Dakar.
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: adv on March 24, 2012, 06:31:12 pm
Well said adv !!! Looking for a new scooter for my Missus. Will definately check this bike out  :biggrin:

Cheetah,

Have a look at the G650GS instead.

Its cheaper and your Mrs should be able to touch the ground with her feet. My Mrs (1.75) just touches the ground with her toes on this bike.

Bike height is no longer an issue with the WILBERS we can fit anyone on any bike, I have  different gals F800GS's that I am making shorter for them  :thumleft:

Hey Blingking.

Thats all great and everything, but the majority will probably buy it with a low seat from the dealer. You have guys moaning about spending 2k on crash bars and 2 k on center stands. I also think these guys will moan about the additional money to lower a bike  :thumleft:


Speaking of, the G650GS has a center stand, the Sertao does not.

No worries, I can supply a SW Motech centrestand, same version as the older Dakar.

Best HIjack EVAAARRRR!  :thumleft:
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: adv on March 24, 2012, 07:50:33 pm
How is this for extra fuel

(http://shop.touratech.nl/media/catalog/product/cache/25/thumbnail/800x/602f0fa2c1f0d1ba5e241f914e856ff9/0/1/01-300-5600-0_i_01.jpg)

(http://shop.touratech.nl/media/catalog/product/cache/25/thumbnail/800x/602f0fa2c1f0d1ba5e241f914e856ff9/0/1/01-300-5600-0_i_02.jpg)

11L per side and 14L Oem.


On this bike, thats like a 1000km range!
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: adv on March 24, 2012, 07:51:11 pm
Forgot to say that the tanks are 1500 Euros :)
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: krister on March 24, 2012, 08:02:28 pm
Those tanks are the bizznizz!  :thumleft:
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: adv on March 24, 2012, 08:09:33 pm
I would hate to ride with them full though! Poor bike. LOL
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: krister on March 24, 2012, 08:16:24 pm
I would hate to ride with them full though! Poor bike. LOL

Why?  The old Tenere managed well with the Camel tank?
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: adv on March 24, 2012, 08:40:50 pm
The bike feels soft and mushy. It does not feel like a bike you can put down and walk away with a bit of scratches. If you put it down at 15km/h you will need to replace some panels. a XR for example you can put down at 60, pick it up and ride on.

The bike just feels a little in touch with its emotions ...  :laughing4:
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: krister on March 24, 2012, 08:53:51 pm
The bike feels soft and mushy. It does not feel like a bike you can put down and walk away with a bit of scratches. If you put it down at 15km/h you will need to replace some panels. a XR for example you can put down at 60, pick it up and ride on.

The bike just feels a little in touch with its emotions ...  :laughing4:

So?  You think it's again a "girl's bike"?
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: badseed on March 24, 2012, 09:20:21 pm
It sounds like you're saying that it's a slow, heavy Chinese bike with soft crappy suspension but because it's pretty and marketed by BMW it'll be a great bike for girls. Hey , that makes perfect sense to me. Maybe they should up the price and even more people will buy it.
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: 2StrokeDan on March 24, 2012, 09:32:31 pm
 :laughing4: Heeee Haw! Clever capitalism rearing it's ugly head.
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: adv on March 24, 2012, 09:39:56 pm
The bike feels soft and mushy. It does not feel like a bike you can put down and walk away with a bit of scratches. If you put it down at 15km/h you will need to replace some panels. a XR for example you can put down at 60, pick it up and ride on.

The bike just feels a little in touch with its emotions ...  :laughing4:

So?  You think it's again a "girl's bike"?

It a pretty boy bike :)

It needs some serious work to make it bomb proof. All those panels and the finicky handguards. Say bye bye to any levers if it falls over.

The motor is new and its better. It will go a lot better if you could open up that exhaust.

I definitely think its over priced compared to what it costs in the US. Then again, all bike are.

Its a good bike that handles dirt well. Suspension is plush and can sustain some air. How much air? I wouldn't dare take it onto a MX track. But for you average ride out along the dirt roads its more than capable.


With a bit of farkles you can probably man it up a little. Some crash bars, vario touring screen, Barkbusters, Center stand and some kick ass panniers. First thing this bike needs are proper tires. C21 front and C02 rear. Something with moerse knobs.

I dont think it would ever be this.

(http://www.megamodo.com/images2009/02/550_BMW%20F800GS%20Bitubo_Twalcom.JPG)


I would only buy one if I plan on touring and If I didn't know how to fix a flat "hello is this bmw on call?"   :imaposer:



Lol, the wife says she likes it? does that make it a girls bike? (for what its worth, she hated the XR650L)


Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: adv on March 24, 2012, 09:41:03 pm
:laughing4: Heeee Haw! Clever capitalism rearing it's ugly head.

As ek die donnerse voorwiel kon afhaal en my MItas c21 tire opsit met n decent knobly agter op, kan ons sondag in macassar loop speel # just saying :P
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: 2StrokeDan on March 24, 2012, 09:59:05 pm
My ou XT dwaal Sondag so bietjie Wupperthal se kant toe. Maar ek sal die middag terug wees, ons kan dan gaan speel?
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: adv on March 24, 2012, 11:59:00 pm
My ou XT dwaal Sondag so bietjie Wupperthal se kant toe. Maar ek sal die middag terug wees, ons kan dan gaan speel?

jyt te veel tyd op jou hande :)
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: baasrupert on March 25, 2012, 03:28:37 am
Fugly....
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: Arno Roux on March 25, 2012, 08:54:32 am
How is this for extra fuel

(http://shop.touratech.nl/media/catalog/product/cache/25/thumbnail/800x/602f0fa2c1f0d1ba5e241f914e856ff9/0/1/01-300-5600-0_i_01.jpg)

(http://shop.touratech.nl/media/catalog/product/cache/25/thumbnail/800x/602f0fa2c1f0d1ba5e241f914e856ff9/0/1/01-300-5600-0_i_02.jpg)

11L per side and 14L Oem.


EK het Touratech gebel vir die Tanks op my Fiets. 06 F650 GS en raai wat.

Die prys is R28 500.00 Slegs vir die Tank Kit.

Ek dink dis bietjie mal baie

On this bike, thats like a 1000km range!
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: See Duiwel on March 25, 2012, 09:01:52 am
Wat se skirtjie is dan daar tussen die centre stand? ???
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: Adventurer on March 25, 2012, 09:42:04 am
IMO it is a bit unfair to compare the XR 650 Honda to the 650 Serteo, each one has it's place in the market, anyone that has ridden an XR will know it is crap above 120km/h, and the motor is working pretty hard, and anyone that has ridden a GS/Dakar/Serteo will know it is crap in really tough dirt conditions, the XR would be hard work on a long haul, it has a small tank too, the Serteo is just built for a different purpose, as is the XR.
And I'm talking about standard format, no modifications...
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: adv on March 25, 2012, 10:31:26 am
IMO it is a bit unfair to compare the XR 650 Honda to the 650 Serteo, each one has it's place in the market, anyone that has ridden an XR will know it is crap above 120km/h, and the motor is working pretty hard, and anyone that has ridden a GS/Dakar/Serteo will know it is crap in really tough dirt conditions, the XR would be hard work on a long haul, it has a small tank too, the Serteo is just built for a different purpose, as is the XR.
And I'm talking about standard format, no modifications...

Thats true, both are for totally different demographics. XR for the brandy and coke drinkers and the Sertao for the Cafe Latte drinkers.


The Sertao is a great bike, make no mistake about it. But yes its priced a little out of the market in terms of what you get. If you want the badge, then I suppose its fine.

My biggest gripe with the Sertao is the damn wheel axle tool that they dont provide you with. How are you suppose to replace a tube?

Other than that, its a larny 650 that goes well. Had it in the dirt and I really cant fault it. The 650Gs is the perfect ladies bike.


In terms of Sertao vs Dakar

Is it better? Aesthetically its part of the clan now (800gs looks) its not an ugly bike. It does look like a Golf 6 compared to a Golf 3
Is it better off-road, not really, they are still about the same.
It is better on fuel due to the new engine. I was a fan of the older Rotax.
Is it a better package? If you are forced to buy new, then obviously.

But the 90k new vs 50k low km Dakar is still a big factor.


Then there is the touring factor.

XR650L vs Sertao for a touring bike

Both bikes need a lot of cash put into them to really make them over-landers


Honda needs a screen and a tank. The gearing needs to be made slightly taller.

Bmw also needs a screen and and some panniers to really go the distance.


Believe it or not, both the XR and the Sertao have similar top speeds. The Sertao topped out on 156km/h *gps on a flat level road with about a 10 percent error on the speedo. the XRL is pretty spot on with regards to speedo/gps and ran to 153km/h where I tapped off.


As a two up bike the BMW wins, cos my wife complained that the XR broke her arse!


I cant see how they claim 77mpg out of the Bmw, that gives it a tank range of about 400km. Do all 'mericans ride at 60kph?


But at the end of the day, the BMW wins, that motor is just so smooth on the road!

Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: ChrisL - DUSTRIDERS on March 25, 2012, 12:01:49 pm
The bike feels soft and mushy. It does not feel like a bike you can put down and walk away with a bit of scratches. If you put it down at 15km/h you will need to replace some panels. a XR for example you can put down at 60, pick it up and ride on.

The bike just feels a little in touch with its emotions ...  :laughing4:
adv if you compare the Sertao with the Tenere 660Z which you should dropping both at 15km/h both
would have panels broken.
The XR is a naked bike compared to both of them.
I'd hate it to tour to Namibia for two weeks on the XR BUT there will be places in Namibia where I wish
I was on one.
It will always be like that. Does not matter what bike you have. :deal:
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: adv on March 25, 2012, 01:41:02 pm
Verseker  O0
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: the_BOBNOB on March 25, 2012, 07:02:44 pm
what a funny thread  ;D

the price is 80k not 90k but everyone says 90k 90k 90k 90k  ;D

then they say you'll get 250km to a tank if you ride 90km/h  :imaposer:

the old school dakar does 290km then the light comes one if you give it stick - then you have another 80km to 100km before you run dry so i'm thinking 350km to 400km is a good guide

so no need for a long range tank

a cheap set of springs sorts out the front suspensions  :thumleft:

long service intervals, reliable, etc etc etc

the only thing that you can hold against it is the weight - its heavy but then again as mentioned its not an enduro bike

i'll do 1000km+ on my dakar on a day - will you do that with a XR650L and then do it again tomorrow again ???

dont tell me - but you dont want to do that - i want to ride to see the world - i dont want to just ride 200km from my house so i have to do distance

and leave days are as valuable as gold to me so i need to get there and get back as quickly as possible to allow me as much time where i want to ride so i cant do 300km a day

this bike will sell for sure  :thumleft:

i have been thinking of selling my dakar and getting something else - but i have not yet seen anything worthy of replacing the dakar  ???

xt660z would be exactly the same as the dakar, the sertao would be exactly what i have - klr and xr would be a downgrade so i'll have to go 800gs or 990 or maybe the new tiger
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: adv on March 25, 2012, 07:39:07 pm
Sertao is R89 995 priced at Atlantic motorrad. Heated Grips and ABS standard.  -- Call Dave Higgs and Confirm :)
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: the_BOBNOB on March 25, 2012, 08:37:57 pm
Sertao is R89 995 priced at Atlantic motorrad. Heated Grips and ABS standard.  -- Call Dave Higgs and Confirm :)

the posted quote shows abs and heated as options.

might just be another scaly bmw sales gimmick
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: adv on March 25, 2012, 10:15:31 pm
Sertao is R89 995 priced at Atlantic motorrad. Heated Grips and ABS standard.  -- Call Dave Higgs and Confirm :)

the posted quote shows abs and heated as options.

might just be another scaly bmw sales gimmick

Yeah.

But I don't think they make it without them. Both the GS and the Sertao test bikes I had were fitted with them and I was told it was standard. I will mail Dave and confirm.


Heated grips aren't really needed in WC.

Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: ChrisL - DUSTRIDERS on March 25, 2012, 10:19:24 pm
Sertao is R89 995 priced at Atlantic motorrad. Heated Grips and ABS standard.  -- Call Dave Higgs and Confirm :)

the posted quote shows abs and heated as options.

might just be another scaly bmw sales gimmick

Yeah.

But I don't think they make it without them. Both the GS and the Sertao test bikes I had were fitted with them and I was told it was standard. I will mail Dave and confirm.


Heated grips aren't really needed in WC.


Ooooh but they are nice when you go through Sutherland in winter. Ask me I know!! :deal:
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: adv on March 25, 2012, 10:28:11 pm
Lol amper soos moffie knoppies in n 4x4 :thumleft:
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: ChrisL - DUSTRIDERS on March 25, 2012, 10:31:13 pm
Lol amper soos moffie knoppies in n 4x4 :thumleft:
Ek het nog altyd tweedehands gekoop dus is heated grips n ekstra as dit by is en op my 1150 GSA was dit standaard.
-6 op Skurweberg 50km vanaf Sutherland in Junie is nie grappies.
Hierdie moffie het daai knoppie blerrie vinnig gedruk!!!!!!!!! :imaposer: :deal:
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: zacapa on March 25, 2012, 10:56:15 pm
The new Dakar, err.. Sertao! is by all means a great DP bike. Also somewhat disappointed that BMW AG did not make much of the opportunity to create a milestone bike with 250mm travel both ends and USD 48mm front forks etc. It will no doubt sell in limited no's in SA and elsewhere and still be regarded by many as a great DP mile-eater of note. Had a 2002 Dakar myself (35000km) after a few airheads and enjoyed it for what it was - 3.5 - 4.3 L/100, cruisin tar or dirt, van Zyl's Pass Nam included and a few other beautifull places of note. So the 2002 Dakar was good in many ways and i'm sure the Sertao will be the same old same, maybe better. Have in the meantime defected to the XR650L camp and am very happy there. Cannot compare XRL to Sertao to KLR as in horses for courses, each is better than the other at different things - just know that for R 80-90K i am happy to go the other route and have R 30-40K left over to squander on parts that i may not even need.

As a good tourer with a bit of moderate dirt thrown in i think the Sertao will be great, damn; that 14L tank is a bit on the small side. BMW AG - take note!
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: adv on March 25, 2012, 11:02:20 pm
Spend R15k and get those extra touratech tanks...

Eina. But a 1000km range is nothing to sniff at. I wonder how much power can be gotten out of the new mill. It lacks torque compared to the XRL down low, but up top it kicks the XRL in the nuts!

Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: Arno Roux on March 26, 2012, 07:14:47 am
How is this for extra fuel

11L per side and 14L Oem.


EK het Touratech gebel vir die Tanks op my Fiets. 06 F650 GS en raai wat.

Die prys is R28 500.00 Slegs vir die Tank Kit.

Ek dink dis bietjie mal baie

On this bike, thats like a 1000km range!
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: alanB on March 26, 2012, 07:56:41 am
That massive tank is going to make an already heavy bike, VERY VERY heavy!

Plus the puny front shocks are really going to battle with that extra weight.

So I wouldn't put one on that bike personally.

Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: lecap on March 26, 2012, 08:22:54 am
Why is everybody trampling around on the rather futile issue if the Sertao is a good or a kark bike ???
The answer to this question lies in your preferences and in your wallet and not on this forum.

My probelm with the Sertao / Dakar is not by any means that they are kark bikes (which IMHO they both aren't although I would not want any of the two) but:

Howe does BMW dare to market a "new bike" after gracing an old cart horse with a shoe shine makeover whilst they don't bother to fix the most basic niggles (steering head bearings not sealed, no fork boots).
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: adv on March 26, 2012, 08:40:11 am
Why is everybody trampling around on the rather futile issue if the Sertao is a good or a kark bike ???
The answer to this question lies in your preferences and in your wallet and not on this forum.

My probelm with the Sertao / Dakar is not by any means that they are kark bikes (which IMHO they both aren't although I would not want any of the two) but:

Howe does BMW dare to market a "new bike" after gracing an old cart horse with a shoe shine makeover whilst they don't bother to fix the most basic niggles (steering head bearings not sealed, no fork boots).

Hahha, its true hey.

Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: adv on March 26, 2012, 10:03:08 am
Sertao is R89 995 priced at Atlantic motorrad. Heated Grips and ABS standard.  -- Call Dave Higgs and Confirm :)

the posted quote shows abs and heated as options.

might just be another scaly bmw sales gimmick

Bob, you were right

The Sertao can be ordered EX factory without ABS and Heated grips at a base price of R80950.00.

R80k + 15k for those tanks.  Could be a nice little package after revalve the suspension.
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: Problem_Child on March 26, 2012, 07:24:55 pm
For once BMW made a smart call and revived these bikes. They are sort off bullet proof, gmmffhh gmmffh couch couch waterprump gear.  ::)

But it's only this and the Tenere that is available in the real D/S long distance travel market.

If the tank is also going to be 14L it will be the reason this bike will fail as a come back.


I've seen the bikes at Bavarian, and none of them can stand upright like these without falling over. All of them needed the side stand to be extended and had to lean on them.


Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: adv on March 26, 2012, 07:32:10 pm
So thats why the thing is sitting at 45 degrees?  O0
Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: adv on March 28, 2012, 09:31:30 am
The Sertao / Dakar makes an awesome city commuter. Went from Malmesbury to town to stellenbosch and back to Malmesbury yesterday without much problems. The wind was klapping it and the bike was  little twitchy.


Biggest problem I find with singles is that if you are in a hurry, you need to leave earlier, because you wont make up the time on the road.

140kph easy with a little bit of a headwind but this really kills consumption. 205km/10.5l fuel Not too bad but still not great for a single that claimed to do almost 30km/l

With the wind at my back, coming back to malmesbury, I had her up to 165kph on the gps (with the shift light blinding me) This is the fastest you will go with stock gearing.

I stopped next to a Dakar at donford, just for good measuring and I cant believe how cheeky bmw has actually been. Its completely identical in terms of frame, shocks, wheels, foot pegs, exhaust ect. The only differences are the handlebars, front tank area, headlight and cockpit. It looks like the rest was just spoeg en plak.


In my opinion, buying one of these new is not the greatest idea, unless you want a brand new Dakar. (thats what it is) or a replacement for you older Dakkie (if you really really are in-love with you bike)

You would be far better off, saving 40-50k and buying a slightly used one. I cant justify spending that kind of money on just a face lift.






Title: Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
Post by: cloudgazer on March 28, 2012, 09:53:15 am


You would be far better off, saving 40-50k and buying a slightly used one. I cant justify spending that kind of money on just a face lift.








yup.
I was worried that the Sertao would lower the resale value of our beloved dakkies.... but apparently thats not the case.
I think people are now realizing what good value a 2nd hand Dakkie is.