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Offline JonW

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Wild Dog Annual Bash V BMW Eco Challenge
« on: October 25, 2012, 10:16:05 am »
Ok so we have recently had the Wild Dog Bash at Snow Valley and the BMW Eco Challenge at Clocolan Some WD's were lucky enough to attend both, some attended either the WD Bash or the Eco Challenge and many weren't able to get to either.

Please let us know:

Why you chose to attend one rather than the other;

If you attended both, which aspects of each event you preferred;

If you chose not to attend either, what would make you want to ensure you are there next year;

How you think the organizers of either event could improve the event.

Please just give your honest experiences and opinions here, this thread is not intended as a brand bashing exercise, but rather as a way to assist us Wild Dogs mods to understand how a BMW event can attract 600 plus people, while our event can't get much over the 220 mark.

Not that we necessarily want 1000 people at a Bash, but it would be interesting to know.

Fire away  :thumleft:
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Offline Gerrard

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Re: Wild Dog Annual Bash V BMW Eco Challenge
« Reply #1 on: October 25, 2012, 10:49:45 am »
I was at the Bash. Everything I wanted for the weekend away was there.
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Offline Trailrider

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Re: Wild Dog Annual Bash V BMW Eco Challenge
« Reply #2 on: October 25, 2012, 11:03:37 am »
I don't know if I can add much. Never been to an Eco but have been to a lot of bashes.

Sometimes I get the impression that the powers that be want to make the National Bash as "rof" as possible. Now I don't mind roughing it. I've done plenty of that. But a national bash might be the wrong place to try and "prove" how tough we are. A bash is a party where friends meet and having good facilities and ablutions should not be seen as a sign of weakness.

Just talking in general here - I have not been to the last three National Bashes so I have no first hand experience of what the facilities were like.

I do remember though that with the bash, I think it was in the free state somewhere, where there was basically nothing there, Piston Pete or LGF or someone summed it up nicely when they said: "I'm not going to ride a 1000km in a day to go shit in a hole." :D
The Eco could be reached as rof or as easily as the rider wanted? And no-one prescribed or cared?

Rough Rides should be rough and parties should be parties. If I want to do a rough tour I'll do that. The bash is about partying. If the venue happens to be at a place I want to tour that will work for me. That might happen in future. Especially if it's in the Lowveld. But for me touring is touring and bashing is partying.

The EC Bash and Breede Bash are events I will always frequent. Watty and Jupiter at the EC Bash took the organization to a whole new level. The venues are GREAT riding areas, the food is top notch and the facilities great. So you don't have to worry about the small stuff when you go, you can just go and party.

With Drinks on the Breede it's the same thing. No-one cares if you come with a self build bike via a 1000km twee-spoor or if you pop in with your car the evening of the party. It's not a toughness pissing contest it's a PARTY!!! And a very lekker one at that. 8)

To me a bash is a bash is a bash. There is no distinction between them and one being called the "national" bash is not above the others. Anyone form anywhere in SA can attend any bash not so?  The best ones will attract the numbers en flourish.

Lastly - Have a "national" bash in the Western Cape and see the numbers swell. Why? Because people go to events thats attractive to attend. Almost all WC WD's will be there (which is already more than your last number) and a fair amount of WD's from the rest of the country will also make a plan to attend. People from up country like to visit the Cape and do so regularly.

Have a "national" bash in the Transvaal somewhere and see how little WC WD's attend, very few? Capies don't holiday there. :D Dislike that fact, criticize that fact, call it f-up. Cool. Won't change the fact though. ;D I certainly won't ride to the Transvaal for a bash with the established good-value alternatives I have around here at the moment.

Not sure this helps. It's merely ramblings and thinking out loud. :biggrin: Dismiss the BS and take what you can use if any.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2012, 11:07:18 am by Trailrider »
 

Offline ClimbingTurtle

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Re: Wild Dog Annual Bash V BMW Eco Challenge
« Reply #3 on: October 25, 2012, 11:05:44 am »
BMW markets the ECO directly at the client - e-mails them directly (I get the mails too), so I suspect they get a higher "hit-rate"?

Perhaps the income range of the BMW riders is higher too perhaps, which allows more freedom? Older members maybe with more time available?

WD is limited to, well, WD's by & large?
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Offline da PEEG

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Re: Wild Dog Annual Bash V BMW Eco Challenge
« Reply #4 on: October 25, 2012, 11:27:16 am »
I attended both the Nationa Bash at Snow Valley as well as the BMW GS ECO.

Both were absolute jol's of note !!!

Remember that the focus of the two events are certainly very different (and purposely so). 

What I liked about the WD Bash was the freedom;  however, I was a bit worried about riding the local roads with 100's of dogs riding up and down in different directions(saw a few near misses where guys did not stick to the "left-track" when approaching a blind rise).
In contrast, the ECO routes were:
- pre-determined (and negotiated with local farmers to allow us onto their farmland through their gates, etc.)
- graded according to levels of difficulty
- circulated well in advance so that you could plan ahead
- tackled in one direction (thus averting bikes rushing around in all directions causing a hazard to each other in the process).

For me, it's more about the local rides than the actual jol/party. I really enjoyed the quality of the entertainment at the BMW GS ECO(Clint & Co. as well as Ghapi, what an AWESOME ROCK SINGER/Drummer!!!)

I will definitely be attending more of both formats in the futer (finances depending  :eek7: )
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Offline Sithe

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Re: Wild Dog Annual Bash V BMW Eco Challenge
« Reply #5 on: October 25, 2012, 11:36:26 am »
My wife likes to ride with when I go to nice events

I have no worries taking her to the BM ECO  :thumleft:

I wouldn't be too comfortable taking her to a WD bash  :pot:
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Offline Trailrider

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Re: Wild Dog Annual Bash V BMW Eco Challenge
« Reply #6 on: October 25, 2012, 11:42:29 am »

I wouldn't be too comfortable taking her to a WD bash  :pot:


As Michnus once said: "Some bashes are merely a stripper away from being a Rally" :D

The EC Bash has a good wholesome reputation though.
 

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Re: Wild Dog Annual Bash V BMW Eco Challenge
« Reply #7 on: October 25, 2012, 11:44:42 am »
Trailrider, you should attend a bash. Excellent facilities and food. Awesome bash!!
BUT, maybe because you werent there :P
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Offline Trailrider

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Re: Wild Dog Annual Bash V BMW Eco Challenge
« Reply #8 on: October 25, 2012, 11:46:05 am »
Trailrider, you should attend a bash. Excellent facilities and food. Awesome bash!!
BUT, maybe because you werent there :P

Like I said...
 

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Re: Wild Dog Annual Bash V BMW Eco Challenge
« Reply #9 on: October 25, 2012, 11:47:55 am »
KTM Hooligans would f@ck up an ECO Challenge :pot:
If i had to explain you would not understand anyway......
 

Offline Trailrider

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Re: Wild Dog Annual Bash V BMW Eco Challenge
« Reply #10 on: October 25, 2012, 12:01:54 pm »
Snafu I was just talking in general.

If you want numbers to swell you need to remove obstacles that will keep people from attending.

Things like access, facilities, cost, distance. etc.

The higher the cost, the less the participants. Lower cost = bigger potential market.

I understand the need to try and cater for everybody, but the truth is the bulk of the members are in Gauteng and CT and they are 1000km+ apart. Keeping it somewhere in the middle sounds like a good idea, but that also makes it far for everybody. Moving away from your client base does not encourage large scale participation. I think the moment you go further than say 500km from you market % take up will be low purely out of a practical point of view. It's easy to do a weekend trip to a venue <500km from where you live. If I have to ride 1000km it most likely a 2 day trip + 2 days at the bash + 2 days back. Lot more people can take a weekend off than a week.

This is not criticism on any recent Nat bash. I wasn't even there so how would I know?

The question on better participation was asked and I am merely touching on some points that might be valid.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2012, 12:03:39 pm by Trailrider »
 

Offline Trailrider

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Re: Wild Dog Annual Bash V BMW Eco Challenge
« Reply #11 on: October 25, 2012, 12:10:05 pm »
The other side of the coin is, do you want to go much over the currant 200 mark? That's pretty big already.
 

Offline JonW

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Re: Wild Dog Annual Bash V BMW Eco Challenge
« Reply #12 on: October 25, 2012, 12:11:12 pm »
Thanks for everyone's input so far  :thumleft:

The question about better participation was just me wondering why the Eco Challenge attracted more entries, was not meant as the focal point of the thread.

I am more interested in what people wanted to see happening at Bashes in future, in what respects was the BMW event more or less enjoyable than a Wild Dog bash?  
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Offline Gerrard

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Re: Wild Dog Annual Bash V BMW Eco Challenge
« Reply #13 on: October 25, 2012, 12:13:16 pm »

I wouldn't be too comfortable taking her to a WD bash  :pot:


As Michnus once said: "Some bashes are merely a stripper away from being a Rally" :D

The EC Bash has a good wholesome reputation though.

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Re: Wild Dog Annual Bash V BMW Eco Challenge
« Reply #14 on: October 25, 2012, 12:14:38 pm »
Leave it as it is.
A WD bash is a party like TR said and I hope it remains so.
If you have the money to go to both good for you. I have done a BM challenge in 2007 but
enjoy the WD bashers more.
More than 200 you want? Why? I do not even get to meet 5% of the 200!!!!!!

I like the priceing of the WD bashes too for what you get.
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Offline IceCreamMan

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Re: Wild Dog Annual Bash V BMW Eco Challenge
« Reply #15 on: October 25, 2012, 12:17:13 pm »
i dont own a bmw  :biggrin:  and like warm mieles ...and i suspect the bash: its a klomp cheaper too....

the WD bash is just my kinda vibe ....music, beer , motobikes .....  

i guess at the eco they talk of noggins and cucumber sandwiches and mebbe the excessive consumption of beer is frowned upon ...like those guys drinking beer in the street like KLR owners.... (gs challenge in carnavon iirc)

one thing , the bashes have not been overly rough imho....those i been to been piele..........

and the locations been awesome too
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Offline Gerrard

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Re: Wild Dog Annual Bash V BMW Eco Challenge
« Reply #16 on: October 25, 2012, 12:18:01 pm »
I attend bashes to socialise and park my bike when I get there. My wife and I are very easy to please bikers. We want :

- A nice ride there and back
- Piece of grass to camp
- A lekker kuierplek
- Decent ablutions and hot water
- Food
- Coffee
- Cold beer

That's it about... and we'll enjoy our Bash, like we did at Snowvalley.  :3some:
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Offline Veldbrand

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Re: Wild Dog Annual Bash V BMW Eco Challenge
« Reply #17 on: October 25, 2012, 12:18:55 pm »
Never been to an Eco.
I think it's probably because I have a pre conceived idea that it's more like a very orderly Germanic like choir boy version and a prissy motorcyclist gathering rather than a dik dirty dusty off-road biker jol with the freedom to take your own route there and around there and be yourself.
Never been one for too many rules and lipstick myself.
Different strokes and all that.

As for the facilities at the Snow Valley bash, I don't think we lacked anything and it was clean, serviced and we don't need more than that.

Just also remember the difference in target market and fees charged for these events. WD makes NO money out of this deal and only covers the cost of organising bashes and in fact some souls do a shit load of work and put in a lot of effort for the love of our community and sport. This often also costs money. I don't know what the Eco people make out of their event or not but obviously a certain brand benefits from the exposure and they are obviously sponsors for the event as well.
Yes it would be nice to have hip cool bands and dancing girls at the bashes but again these things cost money.
I also think the average meerkat club type is of a different LSM than the average WD and probably has more time (read money) to play with. Good for them.
We get their hand me downs a few years later at more realistic prices so they should buy, buy, buy!

As for the endless debate about who's prepared to do what distance to get a bash, well win some lose some.
It is never held in the same area and we have such an incredible variety of riding areas in this country that I fail to see why people would shoot down certain areas  because of distances.  I sure as hell would love to see so many more places but can't afford to get to all the regional bashes as well as the national all the time.
That begs another question, aren't there just too many events/bashes/rallies/parties to attend as it is?
But it would be fantastic to see 600 WDs attend a national one day.
 


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Re: Wild Dog Annual Bash V BMW Eco Challenge
« Reply #18 on: October 25, 2012, 12:19:42 pm »
Bash is alot af pals meeting- not necessarily for the ride. Eco is about riding?
If i had to explain you would not understand anyway......
 

Offline iamgigglz

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Re: Wild Dog Annual Bash V BMW Eco Challenge
« Reply #19 on: October 25, 2012, 12:23:51 pm »
I attend bashes to socialise and park my bike when I get there. My wife and I are very easy to please bikers. We want :

- A nice ride there and back
- Piece of grass to camp
- A lekker kuierplek
- Decent ablutions and hot water
- Food
- Coffee
- Cold beer

That's it about... and we'll enjoy our Bash, like we did at Snowvalley.  :3some:

Perfect.

I understand the need to try and cater for everybody, but the truth is the bulk of the members are in Gauteng and CT and they are 1000km+ apart. Keeping it somewhere in the middle sounds like a good idea, but that also makes it far for everybody. Moving away from your client base does not encourage large scale participation. I think the moment you go further than say 500km from you market % take up will be low purely out of a practical point of view. It's easy to do a weekend trip to a venue <500km from where you live. If I have to ride 1000km it most likely a 2 day trip + 2 days at the bash + 2 days back. Lot more people can take a weekend off than a week.

This is why I didn't attend the last national bash. Even though it was planted on a long weekend, the distance was still a bit much to make it worthwhile.

I haven't been to any bash/eco/rally...but I would want max 500km each way, beers available on site at reasonable prices, decent ablutions, and an open & honest declaration of what kind of atmosphere to expect (rally/party/piss-up or quiet fishing/chilled social...).
I would be willing t pay more than the asking price of the last bash if it means better facilities.

The braai pack idea for the last bash was a good one; not sure how it worked out in the end.

I've warned my employer about next year's bash already; just waiting for a date so I can apply for leave  :deal:
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