KTM 690 SM - Helping out a friend

[Archangel]

Collected this guy from Julian (aka Wrench, Superbike Solutions) yesterday.

In Julian's true words "Just like all 690s known to man, this bike has a cutout issue"   

Description from Bendre (the owner):

the bike will still die at stops, but this won’t happen so often anymore. Apparently to fix this you need to do a dyno tune. I experienced this while driving in Somerset West, where the revolutions gradually goes lower until the bike dies. It luckily started easily for me to continue my drive. It however died quicker as I continued driving. Then I jumped on the N2 to Cape Town and all was good. When I got onto a slow road again it died immediately when I lowered the revolutions, even though I tried to hold the throttle slightly open. It also struggled to start. Later while driving the revolutions just falls away and it died. At two instances, it back fired quite dramatically. Then, 2 km before my house it died again and just did not want to start again.

Here's what Julian has done thus far...

We stripped the tank and fuel pump, cleaned the tank again which had a pasty residue from the stale fuel.

Replaced the fuel pump and fuel filter.

Had the injector reconditioned again, Bosch confirmed a drip and no atomise on the left nozzles of the injector which cause damming.

Removed the rotor to confirm that the woodruff key had not broken or bent.

Confirmed correct air gap between the crankshaft position sensor and the phonic wheel.

Removed valve cover to check valve clearances and confirm correct valve timing.

Reset ECU via IDC5 diagnostics.

Reset grip position and throttle position via IDC5 diagnostics.

Checked all wiring from ignition switch to kill switch to ECU.

The trouble is that Julian fixed whatever they thought the issue was, but Bendre doesn't ride often enough or provide enough details wrt when and how the bike stalls or behaves to help diagnose the problem. It has also been to several other mechanics, so it may be that some previous tinkering has made this worse. Who knows? Anyways, the plan is to commute on it for a while (knowing it's likely to die on me, but happy to make plans around that) and see if I can get to the bottom of the issue. Let the games begin!

[Rough Rider]

It's those hideous pipes 

BTW it's an SM not an SMC.

[Archangel]

It's those hideous pipes 

Not my favourite looking bike in general either... 

BTW it's an SM not an SMC.

Thanks, fixed. I have almost no experience with the 690, the different models or their issues.

[Rough Rider]

I owned one of these, it was a real love hate relationship. On it's day it was an awesome bike and on other days it was a pig.

[BuRP]

Geezuss, what an ugly exhausts..... it that to aid the rider to get the thing to wheelie? 

I'd put a new - new! - injector in it in a heartbeat!
The mentioned 'gunk' may have collected here or re-collected here (after all the work) as cleaning of fuel lines isn't that easy.
If not cured I'd look further down the (fuel-)line.
Perhaps I'll get change from these two cents... 

[sidetrack]

Reckon those pipes came off a Mack truck 

[Archangel]

After charging overnight, it swung and started once or twice for a couple of seconds, but couldn't get it to run/idle. Then the battery went dead with all the attempts to start. Back on the charger for now, but think we'll get life out of it tonight. 

[Rough Rider]

These bikes had the stalling issue from new, it is unlikely that there is a cure for it.
What will help is the 15 minute idle recalibration.
Start the bike when it is ice cold and let it idle for 15 minutes without touching the throttle.

[Rough Rider]

After charging overnight, it swung and started once or twice for a couple of seconds, but couldn't get it to run/idle. Then the battery went dead with all the attempts to start. Back on the charger for now, but think we'll get life out of it tonight. 

You need a new battery, it sounds like that one has died.

[Archangel]

After charging overnight, it swung and started once or twice for a couple of seconds, but couldn't get it to run/idle. Then the battery went dead with all the attempts to start. Back on the charger for now, but think we'll get life out of it tonight. 

You need a new battery, it sounds like that one has died.

Apparently it was bought this year still and seeing it's limited use with the bike standing at the shop throughout, I hope we can revive it. It's on the C-Tech now, which may (or may not) save it. Worth a shot, me thinks.

[MellowJo]

I see others have also tried to solve this ….

There are some interesting advice here ….
http://www.monomaniacs.nl/tnt/KTM-690/Stalling-and-throttle-issues

[Archangel]

Swings over nicely, but just wont start. After removing the air-cover and spaying some "quick start" in there, it fires up for a few seconds and dies again. Also tried spraying some petrol in there and same thing. Fires up, runs for a few seconds and dies. This leads me to believe that the issue is fuel related.

So I'm wondering about the following:
Injector was cleaned. Should it rather be replaced?
Same goes for fuel pump. And the pressure regulator? What about the breather? Could it be that the tank is pulling a vacuum and therefore not allowing fuel through? I suppose this can be tested be giving it a swing with the fuel cap open. Of just a pinched fuel line somewhere.

Anyways, will start ticking things of the list tomorrow.

[Archangel]

Any opinions on fitting of "Booster Plugs"? 

[BuRP]

Any opinions on fitting of "Booster Plugs"?

A better looking exhaust will also help, but will not fix the problem....
Get it to run first, then farkle it if you want to 

[Archangel]

Any opinions on fitting of "Booster Plugs"?

A better looking exhaust will also help, but will not fix the problem....
Get it to run first, then farkle it if you want to 

If the issue is fuel related and it's somehow not getting enough juice, perhaps the booster plug could provide that extra fuel needed? 

[Mpandla]

If the issue is fuel related and it's somehow not getting enough juice, perhaps the booster plug could provide that extra fuel needed? 

It could by adjusting the air/fuel ratio on on/off throttle I guess. But if it already struggles to idle, I cant see how the plug will get it to run.

[Archangel]

If the issue is fuel related and it's somehow not getting enough juice, perhaps the booster plug could provide that extra fuel needed? 

It could by adjusting the air/fuel ratio on on/off throttle I guess. But if it already struggles to idle, I cant see how the plug will get it to run.

I hear you. Just bouncing around some ideas. So who has a booster plug lying around that I can try?    Not keen on blowing R2.5k if it's not solving the problem.

[BuRP]

Your problem clearly is fuel starvation... so concentrate on that, not minuscule mixture adjustments.
You mentioned old fuel has been in there, then cleaned.
Cleaning such is a really difficult job but especially so the injector: like I said, buy/borrow a new one or one you know is working (still warm = best!), and you'll probably get a running engine.
If that doesn't do it do same with the pump.
And if that doesn't....
Capiche? 


Edited: as soon as the thing ticks over do the various (throttle)calibrations mentioned above - and know you do NOT touch the throttle at all, you even kick your dog if it comes too close! To sum it up, all you touch then is: ignition On, starter button, wait, ignition Off!

[Archangel]

Your problem clearly is fuel starvation... so concentrate on that, not minuscule mixture adjustments.
You mentioned old fuel has been in there, then cleaned.
Cleaning such is a really difficult job but especially so the injector: like I said, buy/borrow a new one or one you know is working (still warm = best!), and you'll probably get a running engine.
If that doesn't do it do same with the pump.
And if that doesn't....
Capiche? 


Edited: as soon as the thing ticks over do the various (throttle)calibrations mentioned above - and know you do NOT touch the throttle at all, you even kick your dog if it comes too close! To sum it up, all you touch then is: ignition On, starter button, wait, ignition Off!

Already located 2nd hand spares including throttle body ass (including injector), fuel pump etc.

Totally with you on ticking them off the list. 

As for the throttle calibration, Julian has apparently done this ad nausiem, so not sure I'll be able to get it any better. That said, it's not running now.

As for the fuel pump, you can hear it running when you turn the ignition on/off, so it's unlikely that the issues stems from the pump itself. Could be blocked filters though. Or the pressure regulator I guess.

[Welsh]

Your problem clearly is fuel starvation... so concentrate on that, not minuscule mixture adjustments.
You mentioned old fuel has been in there, then cleaned.
Cleaning such is a really difficult job but especially so the injector: like I said, buy/borrow a new one or one you know is working (still warm = best!), and you'll probably get a running engine.
If that doesn't do it do same with the pump.
And if that doesn't....
Capiche? 


Edited: as soon as the thing ticks over do the various (throttle)calibrations mentioned above - and know you do NOT touch the throttle at all, you even kick your dog if it comes too close! To sum it up, all you touch then is: ignition On, starter button, wait, ignition Off!

Already located 2nd hand spares including throttle body ass (including injector), fuel pump etc.

Totally with you on ticking them off the list. 

As for the throttle calibration, Julian has apparently done this ad nausiem, so not sure I'll be able to get it any better. That said, it's not running now.

As for the fuel pump, you can hear it running when you turn the ignition on/off, so it's unlikely that the issues stems from the pump itself. Could be blocked filters though. Or the pressure regulator I guess.

I am betting filters