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Author Topic: Pushing left to turn right?  (Read 801 times)

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Online BullFrog

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Pushing left to turn right?
« on: September 23, 2020, 11:32:31 am »
I have often wondered what the speed is that the dynamics change when cornering going slow (turning left to turn left) and when it actually changes that the bars need to be pushed right to turn left?

Educate me, please. 
« Last Edit: September 25, 2020, 11:18:07 am by BullFrog »
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Online Roxtar

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Re: Pushing left to right right?
« Reply #1 on: September 23, 2020, 11:38:59 am »
The moment you feel you gonna fall over you know you going too slow.... :biggrin:
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Online Welsh

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Re: Pushing left to right right?
« Reply #2 on: September 23, 2020, 11:42:03 am »
Its at that speed where loading the outside peg doesn't work anymore.  :sip:
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Online Kelevra

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Re: Pushing left to right right?
« Reply #3 on: September 23, 2020, 11:46:57 am »
I have often wondered what the speed is that the dynamics change when cornering going slow (turning left to turn left) and when it actually changes that the bars need to be pushed right to turn left?

Educate me, please.

That is the same thing, going fast you push right to turn right. But right is right and not wrong.
« Last Edit: September 23, 2020, 11:48:03 am by Kelevra »
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Re: Pushing left to right right?
« Reply #4 on: September 23, 2020, 11:47:40 am »
Are you standing or sitting? What tyre pressure and oil? wearing a neck brace or not? :imaposer: :imaposer:
If i had to explain you would not understand anyway......
 

Offline Fuzzy Muzzy

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Re: Pushing left to right right?
« Reply #5 on: September 23, 2020, 11:47:50 am »
I dont know many people who push right to turn left unless they are on a track counter steering at speed. I find that even if I am powersliding I'm not consciously thinking about pushing right to turn left on the bars although it may be the case.

I fund its just a case of point and shoot as you are going to go in the direction you are pointing.

For me the dynamics just change when the back steps out .. its not necessarily speed related but more power related if Im understanding you correctly.
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Online Welsh

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Re: Pushing left to right right?
« Reply #6 on: September 23, 2020, 11:50:19 am »
I dont know many people who push right to turn left unless they are on a track counter steering at speed. I find that even if I am powersliding I'm not consciously thinking about pushing right to turn left on the bars although it may be the case.

I fund its just a case of point and shoot as you are going to go in the direction you are pointing.

For me the dynamics just change when the back steps out .. its not necessarily speed related but more power related if Im understanding you correctly.

You will be doing it intuitively, whether you realise it or not.  8)
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Offline iamgigglz

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Re: Pushing left to right right?
« Reply #7 on: September 23, 2020, 11:52:57 am »
Agree with Welsh. I find it works at all speeds and is second nature.

Turn the bars left, bike bike starts to fall to the right, turn the bars right to compensate, win.
All it's doing is getting the bike to lean over at a faster rate than you would be able to achieve by shifting your weight. As long as the bike is moving at all, it'll work.
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Re: Pushing left to right right?
« Reply #8 on: September 23, 2020, 11:54:25 am »
I am talking about going from walking speed to a point where the dynamics change...

There must be a 'terminal speed' where this changes.

I am not talking about cornering at 240 km's an hour.... Just where that changes...

If you know what I mean...
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Re: Pushing left to right right?
« Reply #9 on: September 23, 2020, 11:54:40 am »
I have never understood this push handlebars theory? Guess that's why I am such a crappy rider!! ;D
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Offline GhostSixFour

Re: Pushing left to right right?
« Reply #10 on: September 23, 2020, 11:55:28 am »
If I remember correctly from the BMW training, they said it was around 25km/h.
 
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Offline Blikkies1

Re: Pushing left to right right?
« Reply #11 on: September 23, 2020, 11:55:32 am »
Never given it much thought, I don't think there's a 'breaking point' that's speed related, I've only found myself doing it when the rear loses traction, I think counter steering literally counters an equal amount of traction loss in the rear, it's instinctive - you would lose it if you thought about it in terms of speed.
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Re: Pushing left to right right?
« Reply #12 on: September 23, 2020, 11:56:49 am »
If I remember correctly from the BMW training, they said it was around 25km/h.

And this is the kind of answer I was waiting for!!
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Online Kelevra

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Re: Pushing left to right right?
« Reply #13 on: September 23, 2020, 12:04:18 pm »
If I remember correctly from the BMW training, they said it was around 25km/h.

And this is the kind of answer I was waiting for!!

The physics is complicated, gyroscopic forces and all that, weight is one of them and we all know BMW's have a similar weight than the earth so I would guess 9.8m/s for BMW's 
« Last Edit: September 23, 2020, 12:05:07 pm by Kelevra »
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Offline 2StrokeDan

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Re: Pushing left to right right?
« Reply #15 on: September 23, 2020, 01:04:08 pm »
Take your left hand off the bars, and by steering with the right only, execute some turns.

Quickest to demonstrate this principle of pushing/pulling the bars to turn in opposite directions.
 

Offline Fuzzy Muzzy

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Re: Pushing left to right right?
« Reply #16 on: September 23, 2020, 01:12:12 pm »
If I remember correctly from the BMW training, they said it was around 25km/h.

And this is the kind of answer I was waiting for!!

But it could be 100% wrong.. it would depend on the terrain and the power delivery not to mention the kind of bike, weight etc.

To blanket every scenario with a 25km/h answer is just not going to work.

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Offline Roadhawg

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Re: Pushing left to right right?
« Reply #17 on: September 23, 2020, 01:30:21 pm »
I have often wondered what the speed is that the dynamics change when cornering going slow (turning left to turn left) and when it actually changes that the bars need to be pushed right to turn left?

Educate me, please.

In my experience the speed at which counter steering takes over depends on the rake and trail of the bike.  More rake = higher speed before you're REALLY countersteering.  It's still very low though, like fast walking pace at most.


« Last Edit: September 23, 2020, 01:31:34 pm by Roadhawg »
 

Offline iamgigglz

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Re: Pushing left to right right?
« Reply #18 on: September 23, 2020, 01:30:49 pm »
Ride your bike as slowly as you can and turn the handlebars to the left without leaning left. You'll fall to the right.

It works at any speed down to (almost) zero.
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Offline Gérrard

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Re: Pushing left to right right?
« Reply #19 on: September 23, 2020, 01:48:26 pm »
And then try riding a sidecar. Everything you thought you had learned goes for a ball of shit  :imaposer:
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