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Offline White Rhino

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Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
« Reply #120 on: July 03, 2012, 11:37:35 am »
Dwerg, there may be speed differneces, but if you want to get into a physics comparison between bouncing off concrete and getting crushed under an 18 wheeler be my guest, but getting maulled between solid objects in my mind ranks in the "kiss your ass g'bye" category.

Yeah sure. I just know that I've been able to avoid accidents while splitting  purely because I was going slower. I've also been knocked by a car while splitting and managed to keep upright and avoid hitting anything else. In most of the scenarios I've personally experienced, additional speed would've made the situation much worse

Agree, speed will play a big factor but the lane splitting I'm referring to is on the highways not the traffic at intersections.
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Offline Dwerg

Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
« Reply #121 on: July 03, 2012, 11:39:57 am »
Dwerg, there may be speed differneces, but if you want to get into a physics comparison between bouncing off concrete and getting crushed under an 18 wheeler be my guest, but getting maulled between solid objects in my mind ranks in the "kiss your ass g'bye" category.

Yeah sure. I just know that I've been able to avoid accidents while splitting  purely because I was going slower. I've also been knocked by a car while splitting and managed to keep upright and avoid hitting anything else. In most of the scenarios I've personally experienced, additional speed would've made the situation much worse

Agree, speed will play a big factor but the lane splitting I'm referring to is on the highways not the traffic at intersections.

Me too  ;D


EDIT:
Intersections is not a big issue because traffic is mostly stationary. Cars wont be pulling any emergency manoeuvres
« Last Edit: July 03, 2012, 11:41:41 am by Dwerg »
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Offline RogerL

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Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
« Reply #122 on: July 03, 2012, 11:44:59 am »
I think this is a great debate, a bit heated but still good conversation.

For me personally, the incident was an eye opener.  I was stupid thinking that it was ok to ride in the EL, and it was always on my mind - what if the idiot in front of me swerves and cuts me off ?  There's nowhere to go.

Its really sad that this bloke had to die to change my mind for good, but it did, and I hope it does for a few other mavericks that ride the EL on a daily basis.  Apologies to SmokenFly for scaring the shit out of motorists who the swerve in front of you guys filtering too.  I admit that it is illegal, wrong and stupid in fact.

The lady driver was alone in the car and had nobody close to her to console her.  We had a little chat and I tried to calm her down.  She did on fact admit that her attention was split between her phone and the traffic.  When she looked up , she was about to hit the car in front of her and (as many of you said) swerved into the ER with one hand on the wheel - the other still holding the phone and she was totally surprised when the bike was right there at that moment.  I told her that we (that includes me) where not allowed to ride there and that she was not supposed to fiddle with her phone either.  So 2 stupid acts = one big accident and thats just what it was, an accident.  No intentions to do harm.  

I'm sure she has learn't a live lesson from this, just like I did.

So in closing - my last comment on this - I will change my riding habits, I will start wearing a neckbrace and I will certainly do a few advanced riding courses, me and and my wife.  21 yrs of riding experience means bugger all if one is perpetuating bad habits.  
I want to fix it for good. :thumleft:

I was shopping for bike stuff the other day and it is amazing that the bike shops are not punting the neck brace as important as the helmet.  The shops only discuss it on your request.  The only person who did not back down on the neck brace was Alfie Cox when I was discussing a kit for commuting.  He also explained to me how the neck injuries typically occur - it is not the head that is snapped back, but rather the neck is broken by the chin being pushed back and the top of the head rolling forward.

Strange - looks like we will have to educate the bike shops as they reluctantly sell you a neck brace.
 

Offline White Rhino

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Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
« Reply #123 on: July 03, 2012, 11:45:42 am »
Quote
EDIT:
Intersections is not a big issue because traffic is mostly stationary. Cars wont be pulling any emergency manoeuvres

Don't joke Dwerg, you get the smart arses that open their doors without looking :o
« Last Edit: July 03, 2012, 11:46:32 am by White Rhino »
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Offline Dwerg

Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
« Reply #124 on: July 03, 2012, 11:46:58 am »
Don't joke, you get the smart arses that open their doors without looking :o

 :laughing4: :laughing4:

Yeah I've learned to be carefull of taxis and delivery trucks at intersections
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Online Geriatrix

Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
« Reply #125 on: July 03, 2012, 12:02:25 pm »
A woman neglects to check her rearview mirrors before making a direction change, who's gonna help her get her life together? I sincerely hope nobody.



You are sick.

My dear friend, read the eyewitness account again, yes the biker was speeding, and yes, he was in the emergency lane. Consider one question; does he deserve to have died for this? Because if the woman in the car did only one small thing, incidentally required for her to have done by law, that is to have looked into her rearview mirror BEFORE swerving, this father/brother/uncle/boyfriend/friend would have been alive still.
So I stand by what I said, I hope her conscience drives her fucked-up. For she would have taken out any of us even in the right lane, because she is one of the many claiming; "sorry, I did not see you"


Few people "deserve to die" for their actions.
"Deserve" has nothing to do with it.
If a rider breaks the law and rides dangerously he must expect to die, whether he deserves it nor not.
The Law is there to protect every road user, but is only effective if it is obeyed by everyone.

If every one was in the correct place, pointing in the correct direction, going at the correct speed, in the correct gear, and giving correct indication of changes , there would be very few crashes indeed.
Anyone who does not obey all these rules is endangering himself and other road users. This biker was knowingly in the wrong place, and perhaps speeding ( I have not seen a post giving his speed at the time of the crash ). Two errors already, which means bad news is in the air.

Is there anyone in their Forum who looks in their mirrors before swerving to miss an obstruction in traffic?
Emergency vehicles driving in the emergency lane are usually obvious from a long way away, and will be noted.
Leonardo da Vinci, “Art is never finished, only abandoned.”
 

Offline cocky

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Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
« Reply #126 on: July 03, 2012, 12:03:49 pm »
People,
I have read this thread and the incident report and been thinking about the "fast lane hogger" thread and how much they relate to each other.
I commute in JHB, like Dwerg does and have done for the last 12 years. I have been knocked off my bike twice by tossers in cages and on both occasions they drove away. I do NOT ride in the emergency lane and refuse to, for many reasons, main one being what happened to this fellow. I have seen and see daily the antics these clowns get up to in cars in the belief that it is their GOD given right to drive like assholes/ change lanes without indicating/ brake suddenly for no reason/ tail-gate you/ flash lights at you and then off course flash the bird at any given time. There are more and more assholes being set free on roads who have little or no understanding of driving, not mention the complete inability to multitask ie; drive, smoke and talk on a cell phone.  They have zero peripheral vision and no concept of where in the universe they are at any given time. Bikers are seen as a sub species and more so if the weapon of mass destruction is a BMW/ Audi/ Mercedes or heaven forbid a Mini being piloted by a 20 something year old smoking and talking on a cell phone.
The truth here people is simple, we are not seen/ valued or cared about, we are in the jungle with assholes who are not equipped or suitably trained to operate cars. The use the roads filled with anger and arrogance and we are targets for their emotions, because we will get there before them.
Look/ Think/ React and be careful out there in the jungle.
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Offline Kerritz

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Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
« Reply #127 on: July 03, 2012, 12:11:49 pm »
Well said Cockster!
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Offline Chris_M

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Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
« Reply #128 on: July 03, 2012, 12:16:27 pm »
I recon commuting on a motorcycle in peak hour day in and day out is just asking for shite, condolences to the deceased, no one deserves to die, accidents happen, cant hold it against either of them. my 2c
« Last Edit: July 03, 2012, 12:28:22 pm by Chris_M »
 

Offline BOER!

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Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
« Reply #129 on: July 03, 2012, 12:23:28 pm »
Will the real Cocky please stand up!


RIP biker
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Offline SmokenFly

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Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
« Reply #130 on: July 03, 2012, 12:54:00 pm »
I recon commuting on a motorcycle in peak hour day in and day out is just asking for shite, condolences to the deceased, no one deserves to die, accidents happen, cant hold it against either of them. my 2c

Some of us have no choice, i dont have a car  ::) I love commuting on the bike i get to work in a good mood.

I dont think we need to prove any more points here, illegal to ride in EL, Illegal to talk on cell, sad set of circumtances that happend, Sparro will now probably be more aware of vehicles and take more care even if he is the the EL, and the lady will also now be more aware of her surroundings.

Strongs to all involved its not a pleasant experience
 

Online Rooies

Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
« Reply #131 on: July 03, 2012, 01:01:49 pm »
I recon commuting on a motorcycle in peak hour day in and day out is just asking for shite, condolences to the deceased, no one deserves to die, accidents happen, cant hold it against either of them. my 2c

Chris, with you on this one 100%.  Over the past 3 years I have actively managed down the time I spend commuting.  Its a risk management strategy that I have employed as I strongly believe that as far as commuting goes, its not "if", but "when". And unfortunately in traffic the consequences are usually a lot more serious than on gravel roads or open highways.


RIP Rider.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2012, 01:02:13 pm by Rooies »
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Offline 2StrokeDan

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Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
« Reply #132 on: July 03, 2012, 01:07:53 pm »
My opinie is die ongeluk veroorsaak deur n vrou wat van baan verander het/uitgeswaai om watter rede ookal sonder om te kyk of dit veilig is om so te doen.


VOLGAFSTANDE!!!! neut.

Nee Danie jy en Subie is die 2 NEUTE in hierdie sad storie. Julle maak gevolgtrekkings al het julle nie al die feite nie.
Wat van as die bestuurder aan die vroue bestuurder se linkerkant 'n maneuver gemaak het wat na haar kant toe gebeur het en sy het uitgeswaai na regs om die ongeluk te vermy, o ja volgafstand sal mos daar help, hou op gevolgtrekkings maak en dan ook nog probeer Judge Jury en Executioner speel. Jy en Subie hammer op volgafstande blindekolle en o ja julle 2 is die beste bestuurders daar buite (in julle oe natuurlik)

Ai wie het nou gepraat van beste bestuurders? Maak seker jy is op die thread waar jy wil wees.
 

Offline 2StrokeDan

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Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
« Reply #133 on: July 03, 2012, 01:16:47 pm »
Ouens, ek sal 'n kar by 'n vervaardiger reel en dan sponsor ons vir 2SD dat hy vir 'n dag in Gauteng se spitsverkeer ry. Kom ons se van OR Tambo af Garsfontein toe en dan terug na Fourways en weer OR Tambo toe.

Ek sal kopiereg behou van alle beeldmateriaal van die kameras wat ek binne en buite die voertuig sal installeer.  :laughing4: :laughing4:

Ek glo vir dieselfde rede dat min bikers n hele dag kan ry teen 100 km/h, kan min motoriste konsentreer in verkeer vir n uur. Of so blyk dit uit Jacko se post. Julle laat klink spitsverkeer na die Taladega 500. My neef se vrou, wat nou nie Jody Scheckter is nie, commute al 20 jaar in Joburg se verkeer sonder n enkele voorval. Wat se die wet, as jy agter in n ander motor vasry is dit maar gewoonlik jou skuld. Reg? Maar die dame het nie agter in n motor vasgery toe alles skielik voor haar stop nie, sy het daardie outomatiese skuldaanvaarding omseil deur uit te swaai. Al wat dit haar toe kos is n man se lewe. Geen kostes van haar verhaalbaar. Lekker.
Verkeer ry is die maklikste ding op aarde. Konsentreer net, en moenie vroetel met selfone, lipstiffie, maskara, koerant, BBM, teks, selfoonkamera, konsentreer net. Jacko en kie laat dit tog so moeilik klink :eek7:
 

Offline Dwerg

Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
« Reply #134 on: July 03, 2012, 01:18:53 pm »
Ouens, ek sal 'n kar by 'n vervaardiger reel en dan sponsor ons vir 2SD dat hy vir 'n dag in Gauteng se spitsverkeer ry. Kom ons se van OR Tambo af Garsfontein toe en dan terug na Fourways en weer OR Tambo toe.

Ek sal kopiereg behou van alle beeldmateriaal van die kameras wat ek binne en buite die voertuig sal installeer.  :laughing4: :laughing4:

Ek glo vir dieselfde rede dat min bikers n hele dag kan ry teen 100 km/h, kan min motoriste konsentreer in verkeer vir n uur. Of so blyk dit uit Jacko se post. Julle laat klink spitsverkeer na die Taladega 500. My neef se vrou, wat nou nie Jody Scheckter is nie, commute al 20 jaar in Joburg se verkeer sonder n enkele voorval. Wat se die wet, as jy agter in n ander motor vasry is dit maar gewoonlik jou skuld. Reg? Maar die dame het nie agter in n motor vasgery toe alles skielik voor haar stop nie, sy het daardie outomatiese skuldaanvaarding omseil deur uit te swaai. Al wat dit haar toe kos is n man se lewe. Geen kostes van haar verhaalbaar. Lekker.
Verkeer ry is die maklikste ding op aarde. Konsentreer net, en moenie vroetel met selfone, lipstiffie, maskara, koerant, BBM, teks, selfoonkamera, konsentreer net. Jacko en kie laat dit tog so moeilik klink :eek7:


Hoekom dodge jy die hele tyd dat wat die ou gedoen het ook onwettig is?
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Offline roxenz

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Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
« Reply #135 on: July 03, 2012, 01:24:14 pm »
So 2 stupid acts = one big accident.  

Spot on, sparro.  Good on you for helping.

RIP to the biker and condolences to his family.  :'(

May the car driver at least learn something from this, then another life may be saved. Perhaps. I'd say that more than 80% of the stupid acts I see daily on the road, are cellphone related.  Worldwide these things must kill an enormous amount of people...
 

Offline 2StrokeDan

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Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
« Reply #136 on: July 03, 2012, 01:24:31 pm »
Ouens, ek sal 'n kar by 'n vervaardiger reel en dan sponsor ons vir 2SD dat hy vir 'n dag in Gauteng se spitsverkeer ry. Kom ons se van OR Tambo af Garsfontein toe en dan terug na Fourways en weer OR Tambo toe.

Ek sal kopiereg behou van alle beeldmateriaal van die kameras wat ek binne en buite die voertuig sal installeer.  :laughing4: :laughing4:

Ek glo vir dieselfde rede dat min bikers n hele dag kan ry teen 100 km/h, kan min motoriste konsentreer in verkeer vir n uur. Of so blyk dit uit Jacko se post. Julle laat klink spitsverkeer na die Taladega 500. My neef se vrou, wat nou nie Jody Scheckter is nie, commute al 20 jaar in Joburg se verkeer sonder n enkele voorval. Wat se die wet, as jy agter in n ander motor vasry is dit maar gewoonlik jou skuld. Reg? Maar die dame het nie agter in n motor vasgery toe alles skielik voor haar stop nie, sy het daardie outomatiese skuldaanvaarding omseil deur uit te swaai. Al wat dit haar toe kos is n man se lewe. Geen kostes van haar verhaalbaar. Lekker.
Verkeer ry is die maklikste ding op aarde. Konsentreer net, en moenie vroetel met selfone, lipstiffie, maskara, koerant, BBM, teks, selfoonkamera, konsentreer net. Jacko en kie laat dit tog so moeilik klink :eek7:


Hoekom dodge jy die hele tyd dat wat die ou gedoen het ook onwettig is?

Dwerg, ek het reeds baie vroeer in die argument gese dat die biker duidelik verkeerd was. As jy wil debatteer, lees ASSEBLIEF elke post.
 

Offline Dwerg

Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
« Reply #137 on: July 03, 2012, 01:26:05 pm »
Nou hoekom hammer jy soos 'n hentie aan oor die vrou?
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Offline 2StrokeDan

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Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
« Reply #138 on: July 03, 2012, 01:32:36 pm »
Want Dwerg, as jy dieselfde scenario net een baan na links oorskuif, en sy moes steeds uiswaai  omdat sy te na aan die ou voor haar was, en sy dan n biker in die regterbaan doodry, wat is dan anders aan die toneel? Of gaan sy meer aandag aan die verkeer gee as sy nie die luukse van n nood "uitswaai laan" het nie. Ek glo nie.
 

Offline Dwerg

Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
« Reply #139 on: July 03, 2012, 01:37:52 pm »
Want Dwerg, as jy dieselfde scenario net een baan na links oorskuif, en sy moes steeds uiswaai  omdat sy te na aan die ou voor haar was, en sy dan n biker in die regterbaan doodry, wat is dan anders aan die toneel? Of gaan sy meer aandag aan die verkeer gee as sy nie die luukse van n nood "uitswaai laan" het nie. Ek glo nie.

As die hemel van Daan...

As die biker nie in daai baan was nie was daar nie 'n ongeluk nie. Sien, mens kan dit buide kante toe draai
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