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Offline StevedW

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Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
« Reply #140 on: July 03, 2012, 01:45:56 pm »
I feel sorry for the woman in the car ..... who the f..k expects a car/bike/moon-rover to be in the emergency lane without a siren wailing!!
 

Offline Bundu

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Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
« Reply #141 on: July 03, 2012, 01:57:14 pm »
for me the apportionment of blame is irrelevant as I doubt very much it will prevent future casualties in this lawless country...

My principle has always been to drive as defensively as possible, considering as many options as I can think of that a cager can get up to - even a green robot is not regarded as "safe" at certain times of the day

Offline SmokenFly

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Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
« Reply #142 on: July 03, 2012, 01:58:16 pm »
Want Dwerg, as jy dieselfde scenario net een baan na links oorskuif, en sy moes steeds uiswaai  omdat sy te na aan die ou voor haar was, en sy dan n biker in die regterbaan doodry, wat is dan anders aan die toneel? Of gaan sy meer aandag aan die verkeer gee as sy nie die luukse van n nood "uitswaai laan" het nie. Ek glo nie.

This is a silly statement
 

Offline alanB

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Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
« Reply #143 on: July 03, 2012, 02:38:54 pm »
The "lack of sufficient following distance" argument can also be applied to the biker, why wasn't he able to avoid her swinging out?  Was his speed perhaps too high for the circumstances, shouldn't he have anticipated something like this happening (its not exactly an unusual event for someone to be caught out and have to swerve - its happened to me, without a phone, just thinking about work or something instead of concentrating), especially since the biker was in a place other road users would not expect him to be, which places the onus on him take the extra care?

I don't think its reasonable to say she should have treated the emergency lane as if it were any other lane where vehicles drive all the time, and therefore its her fault entirely.

The fact of the matter is we all expect (quite legitimately IMO) to be able to swerve into the emergency lane, if necessary, whether due to our own fault or not, we don't expect to encounter someone trying to overtake there.  In that case you look for space next to, or even in front of you, not behind where the biker was coming from.  If there was no biker there, her incident would have been nothing but a close call.  But by being there he used up all the safety margin available and paid the price unfortunately. 

You could go on arguing like this for ever...

The fact of the matter is a set of events caused by two people, who were both at fault to some degree combined, and tragically someone died.
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Offline bmad

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Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
« Reply #144 on: July 03, 2012, 02:46:53 pm »
as one that commutes daily, every work day that is on this highway, i fully understand the dangers and the impact if i have an off.

Commuting is not for everyone, but hell it saves me 2 hours a day :o
When i get on my bike to leave home or work, my objective is to ride safe and arrive at home / work safely in one piece as i have a wife / kid / friends and work mates waiting for me. I believe that because of my own objective, i treat others on the road as i would like them to treat me and i assume every single other driver on the road is not looking out for me. Therefore i ride accordingly.

If you commute you need to understand the situation and accept the consequences, if not, ride the cage rather.
There are too many bikers that take commuting too lightly and you can see them when they come by. I certainly hope they have their angels with them...
 


 
 
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Offline spiderpigsdad

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Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
« Reply #145 on: July 03, 2012, 03:16:56 pm »
I am reading this thread with much intrest firstly it amazes me how insensitive some of us can be ! Riding in the EL did not kill this poor fellow the cell phone did ! Had had he been in his lane and the car knocked him into the cars in the lane next to him would the result have been any different ? Cars are still solid objects, like the barrier . Educating all road users and changing our attitudes towards all other road users is our only hope . I commute 90% of the year on my bike and I have found that people on cell phones are by far the biggest hazed on the road , I like taxis they are taking chances all the time so are wide awake and almost always know you are there I cant recall many incidents with then on my bike , in the car that is another story. Guys don't be so quick to judge the rider did not commit suicide he was knocked down by a person on there phone end of story ! RIP my biking brother
 

Offline KaTooMatt

Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
« Reply #146 on: July 03, 2012, 03:25:11 pm »
I commute on the M1 - N1 everyday from Wm Nicoll to Glenhove and back. Generally getting on at Corlett in the evenings.

I have realised I ride to my safety rules as they have worked out form me.
I ride in the EL between Rivonia and William Nicoll. I only do it when the traffic is very slow and I keep my speed differential down. When the traffic is stopped I'll be doing 50km/h down this lane and when the traffic is moving I will be going between 20 and 40 km/h faster than the traffic. When the traffic stops suddenly I brake with it for the reasons that led to this crash. As soon as th trafic is moving faster than 80 - 100km/h I move back to conventional lane splitting.

I moved into the EL when I saw many bikers coming past in that lane.  Form William Nicoll to Rivonia the Emergency exit is actually wide enough for two bikes to travel side by side. It gets narrow up the hill after Rivonia. As a result I ride here where it is wide. I find it is much easier to manage traffic on only on side. Yes people encroach on this lane from time to time but if you ride with awareness you can manage these situations.

I get nervous when the traffic backs up as all of a sudden the cages "popcorn" and then nowhere is safe.

I have spent time going through the Road Traffic Regulations and from these it seems the right is a grey area. The rules of the road are from Regulation 296 to 323. The only emergency lane specified is the one on the left behind the yellow lines. It could be argued that the area beyond the white line is a shoulder - then it would be illegal but others would argue the shoulder is the other side of the road beyond the yellow lines for the oncoming traffic. I am not a lawyer. I have asked a traffic cop and he could not tell me. There is no official designation for this bit of road. To come out and unequivocally state you know the law and you may not ride here means you would have to back it up with an excerpt from the Road Traffic act. Quoting K53 manuals is not accurate as according to those splitting is illegal. The RTA says it is legal.

I don't understand why everybody is so heated. I have never been inconvenienced by a bike going down the right while I am splitting. Everybody has to do what is safe in their minds. When somebody flies up from behind while I am splitting at what I regard as safe I look for a gap and move over. Most of the bikes do the same when I come up behind them. I don't blame the biker that died. I don't think anybody who regularly commutes in Gauteng has a right to judge the way those who do ride here. He missed a fatal detail and paid the price.

The fatal detail is the women in the cage was using her cell phone. - NOW THAT IS ILLEGAL.

We must ride with awareness. Yes I know that riding down the right is in many minds illegal. But then so is lane splitting to many minds. As a result when riding my bike I am on the lookout as much as I can. Every car is a threat. That is the best I can do. I hope it is enough.

In terms of this accident everybody has lost sight of the fsct that she hit the back of his bike. He was past her. If she had not been on the phone the accident would not have happened. She did not have the necessary awareness applied where it was required. Maybe if he had been going faster she would have missed him. When the traffic backs up cars swerve all over the place(I call it popcorn). Nowhere is safe because "NOBODY' is looking. The only thing you as a biker can do is be super aware and ready to react be it with a hooter or a swerve.
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Offline Dish

Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
« Reply #147 on: July 03, 2012, 03:49:57 pm »
Have also been watching this thread with interest (see earlier post) but heres the thing... when the dust has settled and we clean the shit out of our eyes a rider is dead and there is a lady who will no doubt feel the effects forever. Blame in this case in irrelevant, it is what it is and its a tragic story.,..

However

During the course of this morning I approached what is very clearly a flashing red light in the fourways area... No problem, should be treated as a fourway stop.. Im at the front, diligently waiting my turn when along comes a guy in a grey navara... (at least ten seconds after the last arrival) - couldnt give a fack about anyone else, just waltzes through in front of two other people who were there before him.... one oke hoots and the navara kid does what... flips him the bird and bellows for him to f off... Now heres a oke so clearly a) in the wrong  b) breaking the law c) ignorant of the rules of the road or just doesnt care yet he proceeds to hurl abuse at the driver in the right ??? WTF..

I find that most traffic interactions go down in a similar manner... No one cares a continental fack about the other guy... no one is tolerant, no one stands up and takes accountability and says "shit, im in the wrong - sorry" - and waves at the oke in apology....  just mere admitting to the fact that you made an error calms the other oke down enormously but no, the general attitude is to counterattack and get into a secraming match, moer the okes mirror off, get out of the cage with a bat etc etc etc.... and for what... a few minutes in saving time

Heres my point - eventually - we as a the human race (local and international) suck at driving and occupying the road with others. We have this fucking air of entitlement that everything belongs to them and screw anyone else who may get in there way, even if they are so completely in the wrong its not funny... screw anyone who contradicts them and who may just may correct them on the mistakes....

Its pathetic to be honest,... we all need to wind our necks in and face the fact that traffic is no game, nor is it a joke and unless we figure out some way to change it its only going to get worse.... whats the the solution I wonder... its simple... your not the road god you think you are... Your not entitled to hurl abuse when your in the wrong... wake the fuck up and start treating others with some courtesy... and they in turn will start treating others and so on and so on....

its that easy,...

 

Offline luv2ride

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Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
« Reply #148 on: July 03, 2012, 03:58:16 pm »
R.I.P to the rider and condolences to his family and loved once.
Please guys, be awake and stay safe.


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Offline manta

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Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
« Reply #149 on: July 03, 2012, 04:08:30 pm »
I have read this whole thread and just hearing how this guy died hurts me as a biker.

I have been commuting daily for 8 years and for about 4 did the route in question. The reason I never used the EL lane is because there is a solid white line before you can enter into it. I was taught that you may not cross a solid white line. Now, I am not sure this has changed but that is still a rule.

The other thing which to me is almost more serious and most likely was what killed the biker was his lid coming off. If we take away all the other stuff, that alone would be enough to end his life. That right there was out of the motorists control.

I too would love to blame the motorist exclusively but as has been mentioned repeatedly, this was a confluence of events that led to a fatality. The best we can all do is learn from this so as to avoid becoming a similar statistic in the future.

M
 

Offline Dirt Junkie

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Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
« Reply #150 on: July 03, 2012, 04:12:01 pm »
I have read this whole thread and just hearing how this guy died hurts me as a biker.

I have been commuting daily for 8 years and for about 4 did the route in question. The reason I never used the EL lane is because there is a solid white line before you can enter into it. I was taught that you may not cross a solid white line. Now, I am not sure this has changed but that is still a rule.

The other thing which to me is almost more serious and most likely was what killed the biker was his lid coming off. If we take away all the other stuff, that alone would be enough to end his life. That right there was out of the motorists control.

I too would love to blame the motorist exclusively but as has been mentioned repeatedly, this was a confluence of events that led to a fatality. The best we can all do is learn from this so as to avoid becoming a similar statistic in the future.

M
+1  :deal:
Something to think about...
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Offline White Rhino

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Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
« Reply #151 on: July 03, 2012, 04:34:10 pm »
Feel sorry for the okes that can't feel sorry :peepwall:

I may have to go for some new Hypertension medication, I can feel my blood pressure rise when I see people driving and texting now - I have flashes of this guy being whacked into the concrete - it's freshly imprinted - need to move along.
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Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
« Reply #152 on: July 03, 2012, 04:55:45 pm »
I may have to go for some new Hypertension medication, I can feel my blood pressure rise when I see people driving and texting now - I have flashes ...

prozac?
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Offline michnus

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Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
« Reply #153 on: July 03, 2012, 06:04:50 pm »
I have read this whole thread and just hearing how this guy died hurts me as a biker.

I have been commuting daily for 8 years and for about 4 did the route in question. The reason I never used the EL lane is because there is a solid white line before you can enter into it. I was taught that you may not cross a solid white line. Now, I am not sure this has changed but that is still a rule.

The other thing which to me is almost more serious and most likely was what killed the biker was his lid coming off. If we take away all the other stuff, that alone would be enough to end his life. That right there was out of the motorists control.

I too would love to blame the motorist exclusively but as has been mentioned repeatedly, this was a confluence of events that led to a fatality. The best we can all do is learn from this so as to avoid becoming a similar statistic in the future.

M

At least somebody also saw the issue with the lid. I posted about the lid but seems its more important to argue the gravy sauce

Offline 2StrokeDan

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Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
« Reply #154 on: July 03, 2012, 07:31:00 pm »
Yes, it is true that the helmet came off, but it came off because of the impact. Maybe it was'nt fastened, maybe the strap broke, we will now never know for sure. It is clear that a lot of us will not see eye to eye on this, and I definitely believe that the biker was killed because of negligence on the part of the woman. Not because of riding in the EL. The EL cannot kill, blind motorists can and does.
 

Offline Cave Girl

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Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
« Reply #155 on: July 03, 2012, 07:43:33 pm »
What is really scary about the fact he was in the EL lane is his bike and life insurance could refuse to pay out as he was illegal :-( - I could have uses Boer's hooter at least 3 times today in the traffic!!
« Last Edit: July 04, 2012, 09:59:31 am by Cave Girl »
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Offline michnus

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Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
« Reply #156 on: July 03, 2012, 07:45:18 pm »
What is really scary about the fact he was in the EL lane is his bike and life insurance could refuse to pay out as he was illegal :-( - I could have uses Boer's at least 3 times today in the traffic!!

his life insurance will pay out, no doubt. The bike insurance might have an issue

Offline Kerritz

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Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
« Reply #157 on: July 03, 2012, 07:51:04 pm »
Dan....ek is saam met Dwerg op die een.......wat as.....en ja...as is verbrande hout.....maar veronderstel die dame bestuurder word vervang deur iemand op 'n motorfiets.....en vir een of ander rede...gebeur presies dieselfde. Biker nr 1......swaai na regs in die EL laan om ongeluk te vermy...en veroorsaak dood van biker nr2........wat dan?

Gaan jy dit ook op volgafstand of cell fone blameer? Die EL is mos veilig of hoe?
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Offline 2StrokeDan

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Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
« Reply #158 on: July 03, 2012, 08:07:46 pm »
Dan....ek is saam met Dwerg op die een.......wat as.....en ja...as is verbrande hout.....maar veronderstel die dame bestuurder word vervang deur iemand op 'n motorfiets.....en vir een of ander rede...gebeur presies dieselfde. Biker nr 1......swaai na regs in die EL laan om ongeluk te vermy...en veroorsaak dood van biker nr2........wat dan?

Gaan jy dit ook op volgafstand of cell fone blameer? Die EL is mos veilig of hoe?

Carrots, as jy op n bike ry, en jy bevind jouself in n ry motors, buffer teen voorwiel, agterwiel teen buffer, dan is jy onnosel.
Bike of kar, as jy nie konsentreer nie, en jy swenk voor iemand in omdat jy te min tyd het om te stop, is jy skuldig. Die arme biker drol was onwettig in die NL, maar as hy in die regterbaan was, en sy het oorgeswenk vanuit die linkerbaan, was biker vandag net so dood.
 

Offline Bundu

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Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
« Reply #159 on: July 03, 2012, 08:14:55 pm »
......Die arme biker drol was onwettig in die NL, maar as hy in die regterbaan was, en sy het oorgeswenk vanuit die linkerbaan, was biker vandag net so dood.

ek noem gewoonlik nie mense drolle, totdat hulle dit bevestig.... :eek7:

As hy in 'n baan was, neem ek aan die vrou sou hom gesien het, en nie aangeneem het sy swenk in 'n area waar daar 99.9% van die tyd nie verkeer is nie.....

hoe dit ookal sy, ek is oortuig as die arme biker sy lewe sou kon oorhe, sou hy waarskynlik nie weer in die EL gery het nie...