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Offline Skaiidawg

Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
« Reply #180 on: July 04, 2012, 06:31:37 am »
My opinie is die ongeluk veroorsaak deur n vrou wat van baan verander het/uitgeswaai om watter rede ookal sonder om te kyk of dit veilig is om so te doen.


VOLGAFSTANDE!!!! neut.

Nee Danie jy en Subie is die 2 NEUTE in hierdie sad storie. Julle maak gevolgtrekkings al het julle nie al die feite nie.
Wat van as die bestuurder aan die vroue bestuurder se linkerkant 'n maneuver gemaak het wat na haar kant toe gebeur het en sy het uitgeswaai na regs om die ongeluk te vermy, o ja volgafstand sal mos daar help, hou op gevolgtrekkings maak en dan ook nog probeer Judge Jury en Executioner speel. Jy en Subie hammer op volgafstande blindekolle en o ja julle 2 is die beste bestuurders daar buite (in julle oe natuurlik)

Ai wie het nou gepraat van beste bestuurders? Maak seker jy is op die thread waar jy wil wees.

Is op die regte thread - jy spoeg bloed and vile about the woman and that there should not be one available to console her. Die beste bestuurder opmerking kom vanaf jou opmerkings en dat dit klink asof jy nog nooit enige foute begaan het wanneer jy 'n voertuig bestuur.

Ek wonder of jy nog so uitgesproke en onsensitief sou wees indien dit jou vrou of dogter was in daardie situasie?
Courtesy from Grizz: In this day and age religion is often frowned upon, but I have met some of the most amazing people from various religions over time.
From Buddhists to Sikhs, through Muslims and Christians and everything in between, there are many good people out there and if you do not allow yourself to be swayed by petulant religious opinion, the world is an awesome place with the odd idiot in between trying to make it rubbish for others.
 

Offline 2StrokeDan

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Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
« Reply #181 on: July 04, 2012, 07:31:12 am »
My opinie is die ongeluk veroorsaak deur n vrou wat van baan verander het/uitgeswaai om watter rede ookal sonder om te kyk of dit veilig is om so te doen.


VOLGAFSTANDE!!!! neut.

Nee Danie jy en Subie is die 2 NEUTE in hierdie sad storie. Julle maak gevolgtrekkings al het julle nie al die feite nie.
Wat van as die bestuurder aan die vroue bestuurder se linkerkant 'n maneuver gemaak het wat na haar kant toe gebeur het en sy het uitgeswaai na regs om die ongeluk te vermy, o ja volgafstand sal mos daar help, hou op gevolgtrekkings maak en dan ook nog probeer Judge Jury en Executioner speel. Jy en Subie hammer op volgafstande blindekolle en o ja julle 2 is die beste bestuurders daar buite (in julle oe natuurlik)

Ai wie het nou gepraat van beste bestuurders? Maak seker jy is op die thread waar jy wil wees.

Is op die regte thread - jy spoeg bloed and vile about the woman and that there should not be one available to console her. Die beste bestuurder opmerking kom vanaf jou opmerkings en dat dit klink asof jy nog nooit enige foute begaan het wanneer jy 'n voertuig bestuur.

Ek wonder of jy nog so uitgesproke en onsensitief sou wees indien dit jou vrou of dogter was in daardie situasie?


Skydog, dit is deel van my argument, was die ryer n Wilddog, of jou broer of seun, dan was dit ook n ander prentjie. Dan het niemand hier kommentaar gelewer, behalwe teen die "evil cager", maar nou is dit n roadbiker, en n onbekende. Die vrou se aandag was nie op die pad nie. Dit was wel n ongeluk, maar een wat voorkom kon word deur haar aandag op die pad te he. Ek ry al 35 jaar lank bike en het al honderde van die gevalle gesien. Ek kan nog nie verstaan dat n persoon wat se dat hy of sy nie n lewensgrootte motorfiets in helder daglig kon raaksien nie, n bestuurslisensie kon behou nie.
Doodeenvoudig; as jy moet uitswaai om te verhoed dat jy in die motor voor jou vasry, het jy gefouteer. Feit. Die feit dat dit maklik gebeur en dat die Gautengse verkeer vreeslik erg is, maak dit geensins reg dat sy in haar poging om n motor voor haar te vermy n motorfietsryer doodmaak nie. Die presiese scenario kon in enige baan afgespeel het, met dieselfde tragiese einde. As jy nie kan konsentreer moet jy liefs n taxi vat. Want sy is net so n gevaar as n dronk bestuurder.
 

Offline SmokenFly

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Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
« Reply #182 on: July 04, 2012, 07:45:25 am »
All of these arguments are fuetile, 2 people were wrong both suffering one with his life and one with life long guilt.

DONT RIDE IN THE EL, ITS WRONG AND ILLEGAL.

DONT TALK ON YOUR CELL WHILE DRIVING ITS WRONG AND ILLEGAL.

Both parties were incorrect.

 

Offline 2StrokeDan

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Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
« Reply #183 on: July 04, 2012, 08:07:44 am »
Have to agree on that, I was pulled over right opposite the CT airport turnoff for riding in the EL by a cop who crept up on me from behind, in the same lane. I asked him specifically about lane splitting, and he told me that while legal, it is open for interpretation, because it is only legal when done in 100% safety. How can lane splitting be 100% safe when there is alway a speed difference between lanesplitter and cars? Many motorists see lanesplitting as being as illegal and dangerous as riding in the EL.
It boils down to experience and roadsavvy. Do not exceed carspeed by so much that you are not in control anymore. If the cars are doing 40, then doing 50 and slowly passing them all is still tremendously satisfying.
I love the emerging lane :mwink:
 

Offline The Silver Fox

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Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
« Reply #184 on: July 04, 2012, 08:28:08 am »
My wife drives that highway EVERY morning and tells me EVERY day how fast the bikes pass her.
Centre lane and EL.  Enough said.
 

Offline darkhelmet

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Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
« Reply #185 on: July 04, 2012, 08:37:35 am »
Have to agree on that, I was pulled over right opposite the CT airport turnoff for riding in the EL by a cop who crept up on me from behind, in the same lane. I asked him specifically about lane splitting, and he told me that while legal, it is open for interpretation, because it is only legal when done in 100% safety. How can lane splitting be 100% safe when there is alway a speed difference between lanesplitter and cars? Many motorists see lanesplitting as being as illegal and dangerous as riding in the EL.
It boils down to experience and roadsavvy. Do not exceed carspeed by so much that you are not in control anymore. If the cars are doing 40, then doing 50 and slowly passing them all is still tremendously satisfying.
I love the emerging lane :mwink:

Exactly, you on a bike, ride defensive.
Assume that others didnt see you. Sometimes i do stupid things too, but in general i try to remember that the road stops around the corner until your eyes have confirmed otherwise

About speed difference, over here it is allowed to split lanes up to 45 km/u traffic speed, with a maximum speed difference of 10 km/u. In case of an accident you'll probably live....

Very interesting discussion, and my condolences to sparro for this unfortunate experience
« Last Edit: July 04, 2012, 08:39:19 am by darkhelmet »
 

Offline White Rhino

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Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
« Reply #186 on: July 04, 2012, 08:41:21 am »
Cutting emotions out and taking a pragmatic view ...

Both parties committed what seemingly to  most people would be classified as a minor offence, but an illegal act non theless......

..... here's the gigantic difference, the result is ...

One sacrificed his life (took the risk and paid the price) .....

The other took a life ....

Not quite equal I would say ...

But this subject has been hammered somewhat - let's all grow bigger from this ...

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Offline vigilant

Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
« Reply #187 on: July 04, 2012, 09:16:51 am »
I need to add something ... a lot of people talk about legal and illegal, as if it was important (it isn't)

FACT: There are no acts or statutes to protect you, only to protect "society" (that's not us)

FACT: commuting cagers are braindead, radio, cell phone or co worker beside them, they're not paying attention to the road.

FACT: On a bike, you'll come off worst in any scenario. Don't give them a chance to hit you.

FACT: Your only object is to get where you're going ... alive, and you have the rest of your life to do it.

FACT: If you're in the EL your back is against the wall ... you have no escape route. You always need an escape route.

FACT: Anyone in the EL has not accurately weighed up their options. They ride too fast and relax too much for conditions, leading to a false sense of security. That false sense of security is fatal.

:(
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Offline RogerL

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Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
« Reply #188 on: July 04, 2012, 09:20:26 am »
The long and short of it are that people are not going to stop being distracted in the traffic, be it the cellphone or similar.  So forget that it was a cell phone and consider any other distraction, and suddenly the whole story changes...  So as a biker you need to take this into consideration.  Similarly, bikers will not stop speeding when the traffic is not flowing, and here I talk to a reasonable speed differential.  The speed in a suburb is 60km/h because of the higher probability of things running into the road and the requisite stopping distances - for the safety of all concerned.

If she (the car driver) had hit her brakes in an emergency situation and swerved as she did, then the 60 km/h speed differential would quickly have been surpassed.
BTW she was in an emergency braking situation so how could she have crashed into the back of the bike?  The Road Traffic Act also states that the overtaking vehicle is to keep clear of the vehicle being overtaken which includes allowing enough room for a reasonable departure in direction.  

So as a biker you just need to realise the risks of the actions that you are taking in the traffic.

From a legal point of view, a lot of common law is based upon the reasonable man test i.e. what would the reasonable person do in that situation?  
1. Well the reasonable car driver is expected to swerve in an emergency situation.  And into the emergency lane as it is an open lane for emergencies.
2. The reasonable biker knows that he should not be riding in an emergency lane because by definition it is an emergency lane for emergency vehicles.  He should also be anticipating that cars may use the emergency lane in an emergency (like this).

The logic applied above suggests that as a biker you can go through a red robot and the car that hits you is in the wrong.

Common sense suggests that a bike challenging a car to a duel will result in serious injuries to the biker irrespective.

The failure of the helmet is a compounding thing - if you want to take risks, wear the correct safety gear.  He may well have suffered a broken neck during the fall.
 

Offline RogerL

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Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
« Reply #189 on: July 04, 2012, 09:21:58 am »
I need to add something ... a lot of people talk about legal and illegal, as if it was important (it isn't)

FACT: There are no acts or statutes to protect you, only to protect "society" (that's not us)

FACT: commuting cagers are braindead, radio, cell phone or co worker beside them, they're not paying attention to the road.

FACT: On a bike, you'll come off worst in any scenario. Don't give them a chance to hit you.

FACT: Your only object is to get where you're going ... alive, and you have the rest of your life to do it.

FACT: If you're in the EL your back is against the wall ... you have no escape route. You always need an escape route.

FACT: Anyone in the EL has not accurately weighed up their options. They ride too fast and relax too much for conditions, leading to a false sense of security. That false sense of security is fatal.

:(


agreed 100%
 

Offline 2StrokeDan

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Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
« Reply #190 on: July 04, 2012, 09:23:36 am »
My wife drives that highway EVERY morning and tells me EVERY day how fast the bikes pass her.
Centre lane and EL.  Enough said.


Exactly why the woman cannot say that she did not expect anyone in the EL, illegal or not.
 

Offline Cave Girl

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Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
« Reply #191 on: July 04, 2012, 09:58:19 am »
What is really scary about the fact he was in the EL lane is his bike and life insurance could refuse to pay out as he was illegal :-( - I could have uses Boer's hooter at least 3 times today in the traffic!!
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Offline Cave Girl

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Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
« Reply #192 on: July 04, 2012, 10:04:21 am »

his life insurance will pay out, no doubt. The bike insurance might have an issue
[/quote]

Depending on the fine print  :(

Standing on the bridge a while back with the guys from Think Bike - they were getting really upset with the number of bikers in the EL - just about climbed over the rail to shout at them and point for them to move back into the traffic ... Their comments were pretty much - Medical aid - Life Insurance and bike insurance have fine print that can be to your detriments if it is proved the accident could have been avoided if you were obeying the rules of the road (Speed, overtaking on a white line, riding in the EL etc.)

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Offline White Rhino

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Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
« Reply #193 on: July 04, 2012, 10:22:13 am »
My wife drives that highway EVERY morning and tells me EVERY day how fast the bikes pass her.
Centre lane and EL.  Enough said.


Exactly why the woman cannot say that she did not expect anyone in the EL, illegal or not.

Speculation I would say - you're assuming that she actually paid attention to what's going on around her - the fact that she got caught unaware, suggests that she's pre-occupied with her own needs.
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Offline vigilant

Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
« Reply #194 on: July 04, 2012, 02:13:58 pm »
Friday morning 7am i'm leaving BP beyers for a rush hour lanesplit around joburg.

If you're an EL rider come ride with me, if you're a biker lane rider come ride with me too. Partly in memorial for this fallen rider, but there are a lot of guys that have died on this highway, construction lane etc.

This isn't going to fix anything, but it's over due that we do something. Standing on overhead bridges is not enough. A long line of bikes through traffic really is the strongest statement we as bikers can make.

I'll also be writing up a letter addressing this in the media ... anyone have any ideas on what should be said?

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Offline jangys

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Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
« Reply #195 on: July 04, 2012, 02:27:38 pm »
Friday morning 7am i'm leaving BP beyers for a rush hour lanesplit around joburg.

If you're an EL rider come ride with me, if you're a biker lane rider come ride with me too. Partly in memorial for this fallen rider, but there are a lot of guys that have died on this highway, construction lane etc.

This isn't going to fix anything, but it's over due that we do something. Standing on overhead bridges is not enough. A long line of bikes through traffic really is the strongest statement we as bikers can make.

I'll also be writing up a letter addressing this in the media ... anyone have any ideas on what should be said?



I would say rather to start educating the biking fraternity on safe and responsible riding than a show of force in Friday morning traffic.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2012, 02:29:33 pm by jangys »
 

Offline NeilV

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Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
« Reply #196 on: July 04, 2012, 02:29:28 pm »
Friday morning 7am i'm leaving BP beyers for a rush hour lanesplit around joburg.

If you're an EL rider come ride with me, if you're a biker lane rider come ride with me too. Partly in memorial for this fallen rider, but there are a lot of guys that have died on this highway, construction lane etc.

This isn't going to fix anything, but it's over due that we do something. Standing on overhead bridges is not enough. A long line of bikes through traffic really is the strongest statement we as bikers can make.

I'll also be writing up a letter addressing this in the media ... anyone have any ideas on what should be said?



Who be you? did not see an post on the introduction Board.

http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=101980.0
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Offline vigilant

Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
« Reply #197 on: July 04, 2012, 02:30:36 pm »
Was called "Roady" Jangys :)

I'm just another guy ...
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Offline jangys

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Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
« Reply #198 on: July 04, 2012, 02:31:25 pm »
Was called "Roady" Jangys :)

I'm just another guy ...

 :thumleft: :thumleft:
 

Offline vigilant

Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
« Reply #199 on: July 04, 2012, 02:43:17 pm »
I would say rather to start educating the biking fraternity on safe and responsible riding than a show of force in Friday morning traffic.

Sure, how better to educate than to lead by example?
ER24 have offered their pics collection ... but will gory pics really have ANY effect? The accident occured around 8am, which means that most of the daily commuters had passed already, and by tuesday morning the debris had been magically removed. They don't even know anything happened.
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