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Offline punisher

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Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
« Reply #100 on: July 03, 2012, 09:41:19 am »
I think this is a great debate, a bit heated but still good conversation.

For me personally, the incident was an eye opener.  I was stupid thinking that it was ok to ride in the EL, and it was always on my mind - what if the idiot in front of me swerves and cuts me off ?  There's nowhere to go.

Its really sad that this bloke had to die to change my mind for good, but it did, and I hope it does for a few other mavericks that ride the EL on a daily basis.  Apologies to SmokenFly for scaring the shit out of motorists who the swerve in front of you guys filtering too.  I admit that it is illegal, wrong and stupid in fact.

The lady driver was alone in the car and had nobody close to her to console her.  We had a little chat and I tried to calm her down.  She did on fact admit that her attention was split between her phone and the traffic.  When she looked up , she was about to hit the car in front of her and (as many of you said) swerved into the ER with one hand on the wheel - the other still holding the phone and she was totally surprised when the bike was right there at that moment.  I told her that we (that includes me) where not allowed to ride there and that she was not supposed to fiddle with her phone either.  So 2 stupid acts = one big accident and thats just what it was, an accident.  No intentions to do harm.  

I'm sure she has learn't a live lesson from this, just like I did.

So in closing - my last comment on this - I will change my riding habits, I will start wearing a neckbrace and I will certainly do a few advanced riding courses, me and and my wife.  21 yrs of riding experience means bugger all if one is perpetuating bad habits.  
I want to fix it for good. :thumleft:
just wanna have fun , and ride ... and ....... ride
 

Offline Dwerg

Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
« Reply #101 on: July 03, 2012, 09:43:56 am »
I think this is a great debate, a bit heated but still good conversation.

For me personally, the incident was an eye opener.  I was stupid thinking that it was ok to ride in the EL, and it was always on my mind - what if the idiot in front of me swerves and cuts me off ?  There's nowhere to go.

Its really sad that this bloke had to die to change my mind for good, but it did, and I hope it does for a few other mavericks that ride the EL on a daily basis.  Apologies to SmokenFly for scaring the shit out of motorists who the swerve in front of you guys filtering too.  I admit that it is illegal, wrong and stupid in fact.

The lady driver was alone in the car and had nobody close to her to console her.  We had a little chat and I tried to calm her down.  She did on fact admit that her attention was split between her phone and the traffic.  When she looked up , she was about to hit the car in front of her and (as many of you said) swerved into the ER with one hand on the wheel - the other still holding the phone and she was totally surprised when the bike was right there at that moment.  I told her that we (that includes me) where not allowed to ride there and that she was not supposed to fiddle with her phone either.  So 2 stupid acts = one big accident and thats just what it was, an accident.  No intentions to do harm.  

I'm sure she has learn't a live lesson from this, just like I did.

So in closing - my last comment on this - I will change my riding habits, I will start wearing a neckbrace and I will certainly do a few advanced riding courses, me and and my wife.  21 yrs of riding experience means bugger all if one is perpetuating bad habits.  
I want to fix it for good. :thumleft:

Shot Sparro  :thumleft:

Although I highly doubt it, I hope the discussion gets left there
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Offline Jacko

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Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
« Reply #102 on: July 03, 2012, 09:48:17 am »
Ouens, ek sal 'n kar by 'n vervaardiger reel en dan sponsor ons vir 2SD dat hy vir 'n dag in Gauteng se spitsverkeer ry. Kom ons se van OR Tambo af Garsfontein toe en dan terug na Fourways en weer OR Tambo toe.

Ek sal kopiereg behou van alle beeldmateriaal van die kameras wat ek binne en buite die voertuig sal installeer.  :laughing4: :laughing4:
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Offline Buelligan

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Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
« Reply #103 on: July 03, 2012, 09:48:49 am »
Hi Sparro, once again a big thank you for trying to assist

Your most important point there was, "thinking that it was OK to ride in the EL"

Another point that was made several times was "speed differential"
Keeping safe is being able to stop in time, which is in turn dictated by how fast you are going relative to the other traffic.
Whizzing past traffic that is nearly stationary at 80 km/h or more may make one feel omnipotent, but sadly belies the truth and facts.

When splitting the maximum speed differential should be 25 - 40 km/h faster than the surrounding traffic,
so when traffic suddenly comes to a dead stop you have time to stop.....same when faced with an unexpected lane changer

This was an extremely tragic turn of events, which unfortunately is not helped by the pointing of fingers.

Hopefully some of us learnt something and put it into practice, otherwise history will repeat itself

Please guys, try keep safe out there so that in the future we don't have to analyse what went wrong
 

Offline michnus

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Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
« Reply #104 on: July 03, 2012, 09:49:00 am »
With Marco Millandri his helmet came off, because Rossi hit him so it can happen. But that is another factor that just might have saved this man's life. Schubert helmets if I am not mistaken incorporate as build design to stop a helmet coming off a persons head.

The time I decided to head butt a carrier barrier at 100km/h the Uvex stayed on my head. The lid looked like a badly cracked egg but was intack and on my head.
Maybe he did not secure it properly or it is a crucial safety aspect they do not use on whatever lid he used. It just, just, might have been the difference between him living and where he is now.

Practising collision avoidance and emergency braking is something a person must practice as often as possible to make it a habit.

But being stupid and riding in the EL lane or on the left shoulder of a road cant make up for skill

Offline jogi_c

Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
« Reply #105 on: July 03, 2012, 09:50:30 am »
Sorry 2SD, I cannot agree with you. I commute on the bike and drive on that piece of road every day.

Even while I am intensely aware of bikes when in the car, I have had a couple huge frights with bikes sneaking up on me in the emergency lane, just because you do not expect to see them there. At the William Nicol offramp on the N1 South every morning there is a huge traffic jam, and the cars do strange things to try and make up one place in the traffic jam. Is it right - no it is not. Am I (in the car on or the bike) going to try and enforce my rights when there are hundreds of motorists jumping lanes, no I will not.

First of all, riding in the EL on that stretch of road puts you VERY close to the concrete barrier, in a lane with lots of debris etc. on it. As can be seen from this incident, it puts you at the mercy of what a motorist will do, with no place to go but into the barrier. It also puts you at risk if you blow a tyre, break a chain or whatever else can go wrong on a bike, once again with no place to go but either into the fast lane traffic or the concrete barier.
RIP biker, and strongs to the other motorist involved
 

Offline michnus

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Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
« Reply #106 on: July 03, 2012, 09:50:36 am »
Ouens, ek sal 'n kar by 'n vervaardiger reel en dan sponsor ons vir 2SD dat hy vir 'n dag in Gauteng se spitsverkeer ry. Kom ons se van OR Tambo af Garsfontein toe en dan terug na Fourways en weer OR Tambo toe.

Ek sal kopiereg behou van alle beeldmateriaal van die kameras wat ek binne en buite die voertuig sal installeer.  :laughing4: :laughing4:

daar is net een hoofweg met meer as 2 bane in CP, die ouens verstaan nie regtig JHB verkeer nie. Jy moet fokus pappie :biggrin:

Offline Dwerg

Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
« Reply #107 on: July 03, 2012, 09:51:30 am »
Ouens, ek sal 'n kar by 'n vervaardiger reel en dan sponsor ons vir 2SD dat hy vir 'n dag in Gauteng se spitsverkeer ry. Kom ons se van OR Tambo af Garsfontein toe en dan terug na Fourways en weer OR Tambo toe.

Ek sal kopiereg behou van alle beeldmateriaal van die kameras wat ek binne en buite die voertuig sal installeer.  :laughing4: :laughing4:

 :laughing4: :laughing4:

Ons moet net asb iemand stuur om hom te help met die Ride Report ook  :pot:
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Offline Jacko

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Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
« Reply #108 on: July 03, 2012, 09:57:13 am »
Ek sal die video van 2SD se Gautengse spitverkeer-avontuur edit en vir Discovery Channel stuur sodat hulle dit onder "I shouldn't be alive" uitsaai.

Fokken carnage left, right and centre.  :laughing4:
« Last Edit: July 03, 2012, 09:57:56 am by Jacko »
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Offline michnus

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Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
« Reply #109 on: July 03, 2012, 09:58:37 am »
Ek sal die video edit en vir Discovery Channel stuur sodat hulle dit onder "I shouldn't be alive" uitsaai.

Fokken carnage left, right and centre.  :laughing4:
:laughing4:
Nie so seer bekommerd oor Dan aka Chuck Norris nie, ons moet die safety van cagers in ag neem as ons hom daar los laat. 

Offline IceCreamMan

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Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
« Reply #110 on: July 03, 2012, 10:00:28 am »
fact remains had this woman not been distracted by her mobile and bee naware of the car in front of her this thread would not have been.

there is not equal aportioning of blame on this one no matter how hard some may try ....

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Offline michnus

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Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
« Reply #111 on: July 03, 2012, 10:02:36 am »
fact remains had this woman not been distracted by her mobile and bee naware of the car in front of her this thread would not have been.

there is not equal aportioning of blame on this one no matter how hard some may try ....



fact is it is illegal to ride or drive in the EL lane, he was not suppose to be there in the first place.

finish and klaar.  :biggrin:

It does not change the fact that as a biker you must fokkin THINK when riding. And doing unsafe stuff will not make it better. If you want to take a fight with a 18 wheeler whether you think you are in your right or not is not going to change the fact that you will donners die in proofing your point.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2012, 10:05:19 am by michnus »
 

Offline IceCreamMan

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Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
« Reply #112 on: July 03, 2012, 10:08:41 am »
fact remains had this woman not been distracted by her mobile and bee naware of the car in front of her this thread would not have been.

there is not equal aportioning of blame on this one no matter how hard some may try ....



fact is it is illegal to ride or drive in the EL lane, he was not suppose to be there in the first place.

finish and klaar.  :biggrin:

It does not change the fact that as a biker you must fokkin THINK when riding. And doing unsafe stuff will not make it better. If you want to take a fight with a 18 wheeler whether you think you are in your right or not is not going to change the fact that you will donners die in proofing your point.


Actually until we know the facts it may not have been illegal for this guy to be riding in that lane at that point in time .... we are only surmising that.  Additionally i would like to ask another couple of questions:

1) had this woman been using this highway before
2) has she ever seen bikers in this lane?

and if by performing illegal activities we would perish ,guess what this forum would not exist....

Edit: but i think whenever we see an accident we try and justify it to ourselves in a way .....so that we keep on riding ...
« Last Edit: July 03, 2012, 11:12:04 am by IceCreamMan »
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Offline HONDAKAWA11

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Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
« Reply #113 on: July 03, 2012, 10:10:29 am »
I'm with Sparro on this one.

RIP rider and condolences to his family and every one involved.
 

Offline Jacko

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Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
« Reply #114 on: July 03, 2012, 10:14:07 am »
Ek sal die video edit en vir Discovery Channel stuur sodat hulle dit onder "I shouldn't be alive" uitsaai.

Fokken carnage left, right and centre.  :laughing4:
:laughing4:
Nie so seer bekommerd oor Dan aka Chuck Norris nie, ons moet die safety van cagers in ag neem as ons hom daar los laat. 

 :laughing4:

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Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
« Reply #115 on: July 03, 2012, 10:50:20 am »
En onthou Jacko, as jou vrou op enige pad moet rem sodat die rook by haar wiele uitkom, dan is dit omdat sy te na aan voorste verkeer was. Niks anders nie. Hier glo niemand mos in volgafstande nie. Stuur haar op jou gevorderde kursus.

As die spitsverkeer op die paaie in GP die regte volgeafstande hou gaan die arme bliksems agteruit moet ry om dit reg te kry...

Imagine om van Lynnwood af in trurat tot in Polokwane te ry op pad Midrand toe om 'n 2 of 3 sekonde volgafstand te probeer handhaaf  :o

RIP biker.

In die betrokke geval was altwee verkeerd, die vrou het met haar selfoon gekarring wat haar aandag van die verkeer voor haar afgehaal het, en die biker het gery waar hy nie moes nie, die twee verkeerde optredes het op een plek en een tyd bymekaar gekom, een persoon is dood en die ander een gaan die res van haar lewe daarmee moet saamleef.

Leer enigeen iets daaruit?

Nee wat, almal fok maar weer vandag voort net soos gister.
 

Offline White Rhino

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Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
« Reply #116 on: July 03, 2012, 11:02:31 am »
Now that Sparro has shared the details and the circumstances surrounding the manoeuvre / incident - I have a different take:
- Riding in the EL - is illegal - no argument there - it's the law;
- Using a cell phone whilst driving is also illegal - it's the law;
One illegal wrongdoer caused the death of another illegal wrongdoer - goes to prove that both laws are justifiably in place and this incident has just proved it.

The reality for us bikers is that cell phone users are potential assassins - and we know how many cell phones are in cages behind wheels texting ....  that's the modern day reality - so a lane splitter is equally vulnerable to the same fate as the EL rider - no different in my mind ... cage driver busy on the phone - traffic situation changes in front (sudden stop), late response, swerve ... biker taken out - the difference here the biker was not performing an illegal act - but rather a risky act - what would you say now .... aahhh the bitch on the phone blah blah blah ...... so the fact that the biker was in the EL, then the focus shift onto him - I don't think so - the blame sits equally .... but the consequences are quite different.

Irrespective of whether he should have been there or not, the lady will have the haunt of knowing she lost  control of the situation because of a careless and selfish act, which ultinmately resulted in someone's death - not a pleasant thing to go to bed with every day for time to come ....
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Offline Dwerg

Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
« Reply #117 on: July 03, 2012, 11:17:28 am »
Now that Sparro has shared the details and the circumstances surrounding the manoeuvre / incident - I have a different take:
- Riding in the EL - is illegal - no argument there - it's the law;
- Using a cell phone whilst driving is also illegal - it's the law;
One illegal wrongdoer caused the death of another illegal wrongdoer - goes to prove that both laws are justifiably in place and this incident has just proved it.

The reality for us bikers is that cell phone users are potential assassins - and we know how many cell phones are in cages behind wheels texting ....  that's the modern day reality - so a lane splitter is equally vulnerable to the same fate as the EL rider - no different in my mind ... cage driver busy on the phone - traffic situation changes in front (sudden stop), late response, swerve ... biker taken out - the difference here the biker was not performing an illegal act - but rather a risky act - what would you say now .... aahhh the bitch on the phone blah blah blah ...... so the fact that the biker was in the EL, then the focus shift onto him - I don't think so - the blame sits equally .... but the consequences are quite different.

Irrespective of whether he should have been there or not, the lady will have the haunt of knowing she lost  control of the situation because of a careless and selfish act, which ultinmately resulted in someone's death - not a pleasant thing to go to bed with every day for time to come ....

I disagree. The lane splitter is not moving as fast as the EL rider so he has more time to react plus an accident will be less severe
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Offline White Rhino

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Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
« Reply #118 on: July 03, 2012, 11:26:22 am »
Dwerg, there may be speed differneces, but if you want to get into a physics comparison between bouncing off concrete and getting crushed under an 18 wheeler be my guest, but getting maulled between solid objects in my mind ranks in the "kiss your ass g'bye" category.
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Offline Dwerg

Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
« Reply #119 on: July 03, 2012, 11:32:43 am »
Dwerg, there may be speed differneces, but if you want to get into a physics comparison between bouncing off concrete and getting crushed under an 18 wheeler be my guest, but getting maulled between solid objects in my mind ranks in the "kiss your ass g'bye" category.

Yeah sure. I just know that I've been able to avoid accidents while splitting  purely because I was going slower. I've also been knocked by a car while splitting and managed to keep upright and avoid hitting anything else. In most of the scenarios I've personally experienced, additional speed would've made the situation much worse
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