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Author Topic: RAD - Rip off or providing a service?  (Read 9113 times)

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Offline tgg

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Re: RAD - Rip off or providing a service?
« Reply #80 on: October 12, 2012, 08:36:47 pm »
So why did they need a whole workshop of backup for KTM, and  the expensive bike  owners go and shit themselves
 

Offline 2StrokeDan

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Re: RAD - Rip off or providing a service?
« Reply #81 on: October 12, 2012, 10:08:43 pm »
This is a truly South African thread. We always moan about how we in SA gets to pay more for goods and services, now Radworks get defended for exploiting a situation, and making us pay more for goods and services.
 

Offline Fuzzy Muzzy

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Re: RAD - Rip off or providing a service?
« Reply #82 on: October 12, 2012, 10:30:23 pm »
I keep seeing the word "vollenteering" and "assist" etc.... there is no such thing in business.

Face it, they were there to make money. To prey on the weak.

R350 is rediculous if you are there to support the guys riding.

I was thinking the same thing, it is said that the guys from RAD volunteered to come along.. this implies for free. Unless volunteers get paid these days.

If I go to a resturant and get charged a lot more than I expect I complain even of the resturant has every right to charge that amount due to setup costs etc, I see no difference here.

Yes it costs a lot to make it happen, but perceived overcharging is going to get a reaction, R800 to change a choob, and they think everyone was happy with that..  :imaposer:  okes must learn to fix their own punctures and take their own choobs.. or else kak en betaal
« Last Edit: October 12, 2012, 10:37:24 pm by Fuzzy Muzzy »
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Offline immigrant

Re: RAD - Rip off or providing a service?
« Reply #83 on: October 13, 2012, 07:21:41 am »
Again, as many threads before this one, and in many threads to come, the dealer fails to see the big picture. There was an unhappy customer, he bitched to his (online) buddies, and after this thread was viewed more than 1600 times, one can safely say that 50% of the people will not support RAD in the future. That is a lot of bikes, spares and ATGATT that will not be sold because of a stupid puncture that had cost R800 to fix. So they made R800 on a tube but they lost R1000000 in future sales. No wonder bike dealers don't last. RAD pretend that they are the "victim" because they spent time and money to go there and did everyone a favour. You went there cause you could make money
And RAD, you said in your response that you charge recommended retail prices on your spares. So a spare tube cost R350 and slime R100 in your shop?
« Last Edit: October 13, 2012, 07:49:04 am by immigrant »
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Offline fixit

Re: RAD - Rip off or providing a service?
« Reply #84 on: October 13, 2012, 07:43:37 am »
I keep seeing the word "vollenteering" and "assist" etc.... there is no such thing in business.

Face it, they were there to make money. To prey on the weak.

R350 is rediculous if you are there to support the guys riding.

If the definition of being in business, where the primary objective is to make money, is considered "preying on the weak", then so be it, however, that being the case, then the world and the economic system we all participate in is "ridiculous"!

Nowhere does it state that RAD was there to supply charity and even if they were, the riders do not represent the charity so why should they be the beneficiaries of RAD's loss? To build on Badseeds comments above, R350 to recover the costs of simply being at an event like this is a pittance, and more so for the convenience of trackside service when you ride a R160k machine and have a hangover!

Seriously, although I am all for freedom of speech etc, the mindless whiners on threads like these are the reason that motorcycle shops in SA will avoid these events in the future.

You got a problem, pick the phone up and have a moan to the DP directly, not only will you get far more mileage, you also wont have a negative impact on the ongoing provision of necessary services at events like these.

Let me try make myself more clear.

MC shops will never avoid events like these. As I said, they spot the businees oppertunity and an oppertunity to advertise their business. If there was no money to be made, they would not volenteer, or help out at any events.

You will always get lazy arse riders that buy expensive bikes and have no idea how to fix them. These are the guys they target. Of cousre there are also the the misfortunate that suffer problems that cannot be repaired without assistance. They target them too.

No matter how you look at it. It is unethical to charge someone so much for a simple service.
That is proof that they don't do it for the love of the sport or to support anyone doing the sport. It is purley business.....damn expensive business. +/- R1400/hr. 
 

Garfield

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Re: RAD - Rip off or providing a service?
« Reply #85 on: October 13, 2012, 08:14:36 am »
Of course it is a business, if all these guys did everything 'for the love of the sport' soon we would have no bike shops around.

If you believe someone is trying to rip you off, take your wallet and walk eway.

Maybe the rates were too high in this case, do not know was not there.

Don't pay the price and then come bitch and moan afterwards, by paying you have accepted the T's & C's of the deal, te laat om dan te kak en kerm.

Do a test, phone a plumber or electritian on a Sunday evening for an emergency quote to do something you cannot, or are not prepared to do yourself.

For the love of the sport  :imaposer:
« Last Edit: October 13, 2012, 08:21:27 am by Garfield »
 

Offline fixit

Re: RAD - Rip off or providing a service?
« Reply #86 on: October 13, 2012, 08:30:55 am »
Agree with you. If someone is stupid enough to pay that price then he must suffer the concequence and not bitch afterwards.

Me personally, would have cut my losses and told them take a hike.

I just hate oppertunists that try and justify their workings with drivel like is mentioned here.

Just say it like it is. "We are here to fark you over for your money", not in it for the sport.  :biggrin:




 

Offline KoToM

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Re: RAD - Rip off or providing a service?
« Reply #87 on: October 13, 2012, 04:50:33 pm »
and after this thread was viewed more than 1600 times, one can safely say that 50% of the people will not support RAD in the future.

maybe 5% if you lucky, this wont put me off from using them for spares as long as the service is good thats all that counts
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Offline Fuzzy Muzzy

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Re: RAD - Rip off or providing a service?
« Reply #88 on: October 13, 2012, 08:09:41 pm »
So you are saying that price does not count  ???
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Offline Magnum

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Re: RAD - Rip off or providing a service?
« Reply #89 on: October 14, 2012, 07:49:23 am »
To all the whingers here, if you bump your car or bakkie and need a tow truck are you going to expect the job to be done for free if the driver is going in the same direction as you want your vehicle to be taken to.

One has the right to ask for a quote beforehand and if you don't like the the price it is your option to accept or decline. If you decline fix the puncture yourself and then keep quiet.

Maybe your finances were overstretched before you left home and this is the real reason for the compliant. No milk and bread or maybe brandy till the end of the month.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2012, 07:54:29 am by Magnum »
 

Offline 2StrokeDan

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Re: RAD - Rip off or providing a service?
« Reply #90 on: October 14, 2012, 08:21:05 am »
To all the whingers here, if you bump your car or bakkie and need a tow truck are you going to expect the job to be done for free if the driver is going in the same direction as you want your vehicle to be taken to.

One has the right to ask for a quote beforehand and if you don't like the the price it is your option to accept or decline. If you decline fix the puncture yourself and then keep quiet.

Maybe your finances were overstretched before you left home and this is the real reason for the compliant. No milk and bread or maybe brandy till the end of the month.



Interesting that you compare Radworks' behaviour with that of the towing brigade vultures. Also my 1st impression, they went to "service" riders on a charity event, at way more than premium tariffs.
Also interesting how some on here reason that since this guy possibly did not know how to change a tyre, he deserved to be ripped off.
 

Offline Odd Dog

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Re: RAD - Rip off or providing a service?
« Reply #91 on: October 14, 2012, 09:16:20 am »
My thoughts exactly.

Hypothetically, there are a few bottle stores in an area I visited, 1st one I go into a  6 pack is a couple rand more expensive than a few further down the street, what do I do as I want beer now, I pay the few extra rand but only this once off, next time I go staright down the street to the reasonably priced  business.
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Offline alanB

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Re: RAD - Rip off or providing a service?
« Reply #92 on: October 14, 2012, 09:19:12 am »
At the Amageza this year Cape Town KTM changed tyres for free (I only found that out after replacing my own tube right across the way from them.  When I was finished the young mechanic who was watching me walked across and gave me the good news!  Very nice of him  ::) :biggrin:).

The R800 in total to replace a tube is a bit very steep I agree.

But my question is why pay and then moan?  If its too much, just don't pay and make another plan!

Any business can charge any price it wants to for its services - its called a free market.  

In my business we charge about R550/hr - some of my mates who work for a big US firm charge R2500/hr - should I be outraged? (Especially since they have more work than we do - lucky bastards)

We willingly pay a fortune for cars and bikes in this country, but for some reason people see that as something to brag about - not moan.  So why get outraged when you pay a few Rand more for a tube replacement?  Just playing devil's advocate.

Whether RAD would have been wiser to offer their services for free at a charity event is different question.

I see in this month's Enduro mag that Yamaha is offering comprehensive services at this years' Roof - all for free to any Yamaha rider.  Maybe Yamaha have a bigger marketing budget than RAD?
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Offline KiLRoy

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Re: RAD - Rip off or providing a service?
« Reply #93 on: October 14, 2012, 10:58:26 am »
Simple really

Either learn to fix a flat yourself, or pay the price the okes are asking. Thats the nature of allthings - from dstv dish repairs, to plumbing, to farking doctors.

Now cry me a river, grow a pair of balls - and go tell your mommy....bloody dutchmen ;)
 

Offline badseed

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Re: RAD - Rip off or providing a service?
« Reply #94 on: October 14, 2012, 03:13:40 pm »
If you won't allow the shop to recoup some of cash they have laid out to be there to service you , then next year when your over priced adventure pose mobile needs a repair and you've got fuckall clue of how to fix it you had better hope there is sweep truck because nobody will be there to service you. And all the cash you spent on the weekend will be for nothing , because your ride will be over and even worse your bike will be scratched to hell on the back of a farm bakkie.
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Offline Fuzzy Muzzy

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Re: RAD - Rip off or providing a service?
« Reply #95 on: October 14, 2012, 06:48:40 pm »
At the Amageza this year Cape Town KTM changed tyres for free.

I see in this month's Enduro mag that Yamaha is offering comprehensive services at this years' Roof - all for free to any Yamaha rider.

Maybe they will be at the charity event next year and scoop up all the subsequent business for their efforts as well.
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Offline 2StrokeDan

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Re: RAD - Rip off or providing a service?
« Reply #96 on: October 14, 2012, 08:03:47 pm »
Simple really

Either learn to fix a flat yourself, or pay the price the okes are asking. Thats the nature of allthings - from dstv dish repairs, to plumbing, to farking doctors.

Now cry me a river, grow a pair of balls - and go tell your mommy....bloody dutchmen ;)

Not quite correct, there are lots of services delivered that charges REASONABLE prices, from DSTV dish repairs, to plumbing, to farking doctors. I lost 2 tyres on a double-axle trailer once at LeeuGamka, and the guys there charged me an amount equal to just more than the CT value of 4 tyres. DOUBLE. Why? Because I was in shit and the situation was exploited. Of course I had to pay, but would I ever have a good word for this guy? No.
Was Radworks hoping to recoup their ad money from the poor charity riders' punctures? Fools, there are the interweb.
 

Offline RMN

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Re: RAD - Rip off or providing a service?
« Reply #97 on: October 16, 2012, 02:52:07 pm »
Simple really

Either learn to fix a flat yourself, or pay the price the okes are asking. Thats the nature of allthings - from dstv dish repairs, to plumbing, to farking doctors.

Now cry me a river, grow a pair of balls - and go tell your mommy....bloody dutchmen ;)

Not quite correct, there are lots of services delivered that charges REASONABLE prices, from DSTV dish repairs, to plumbing, to farking doctors. I lost 2 tyres on a double-axle trailer once at LeeuGamka, and the guys there charged me an amount equal to just more than the CT value of 4 tyres. DOUBLE. Why? Because I was in shit and the situation was exploited. Of course I had to pay, but would I ever have a good word for this guy? No.
Was Radworks hoping to recoup their ad money from the poor charity riders' punctures? Fools, there are the interweb.
I really don’t understand the whiners on this thread!!
This is a simple case of business mathematics and those of you out there that are business owners will understand this!!...
1.   R100 cost and R80 of sales = Loss = no livelihood = NO business!
2.   R100 cost and R100 of sales = no Profit = no livelihood = NO business!
Its that simple! In addition to this is another equally simple concept that will be understood by business owners and that is the concept of “supply and demand”!
Even the most “reputable” companies in the world apply this concept to their pricing. For the whiners out there that don’t understand, then let me explain…
If youre stuck in the desert with nothing to drink and you come across a coca cola stand, be prepared to pay over the top for the product. This doesn’t mean you will never drink a coke again and nor does it make CC a bad company, just one that understands the forces of supply and demand.  There isn’t a company in the world that doesn’t operate this way, its just business!
Insofar as RAD was concerned, don’t lose sight of the fact that they are:
1.   A business (duh!!)
2.   They incurred substantial costs to be at the event (volunteered or otherwise) which include transport, fuel, labour, after hours labour, loss of profits at their primary workshop etc,
3.   They were the only coca cola stand in the desert, and
4.   Nobody was FORCED to use their products and services.
In order to recover these costs AND make a profit, they charged what they did and even so, those in this industry will agree that it was doubtful that they walked away from the event profitably when the entirety of the cost spectrum is considered. To expect them to break even or make a loss as some would suggest they should have done, is naïve and childish coming from adults.
Lastly, I don’t know how many on this thread are actually in the bike industry or are just riders but those that are IN the industry will tell you that the business of motorcycles is MUCH MORE a product of passion than it is profit. To the extent that it supplies a livelihood, then that’s great, and if it is profitable beyond the livelihood, then that’s a bonus! Those out there that think that RAD or any other bike business are exploiting motorcycle riders should try their hand at “the business” of motorcycles and thereafter add their two cents worth.
This is not to say that there aren’t unscrupulous people, dealers or businesses out there, to believe that would be equally naïve but knowing the guys at RAD personally, their business mentality is not a short term “screw the public for the buck today and worry about the consequences tomorrow” outlook, so perhaps go and have coffee with Dave Griffin and draw your own conclusions rather than being swayed by the childish rants of those that have no idea what it means to be in business in these volatile times, never mind a bike business.
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Offline KaTooMatt

Re: RAD - Rip off or providing a service?
« Reply #98 on: October 16, 2012, 03:09:57 pm »
I thin this needs to be analysed correctly. RAD's costs are beside the point. My understanding is that they were asked to provide a back up service. Nowhere have I seen that this was a charitable service. It seems the organisers wanted people who knew their way around a bike to be on hand to help people who had a problem. It seems the other workshops have got fed up with this kind of backstabbing from the people they tried to help.

In real terms checking the WOA site they charge R320 for a heavy duty tube. The type of tube has not been mentioned but if I was providing back up for this type of event I would only have heavy duty tubes in stock. R350 at this stage looks entirely reasonable.

In terms of the slime it is more difficult as there are no internet prices that I can find. I paid R124 in a co-op at Thabazimbi recently. No more punctures would charge you R500 for both tyres plus a R100 call out charge. Based on that R100 for slime is also reasonable.

The real fight is around R350 to fix a tyre. Now you are in the bush and the only competent person is a qualified mechanic. R350 for a mechanic is a cheap hourly rate whether or not you want to believe it. The justification for a full hour charge is up for debate but that is up to you and the service provider. All in all it is up to you to speak up for yourself at the time and negotiate the best deal.  Maybe next time they should take their tyre staff along so they can charge less for this service, but then can they justify the expense.

In terms of Amageze I doubt you would have got the tubes for free. It is highly likely that KTM Cape Town had an agreement to provide the labour free. From what I have read here RAD did not have that agreement. They had been asked to help out and provide a service.

On a more personal note. I had decided to give RAD a try after moaning about them on this forum. My bike needed a new chain and sprockets as I wanted to go on a ride that weekend I wanted it done quickly - i.e. either Thursday or Friday. They could not help me as half their workshop was helping at Q4Q. I found a friend bought the spares from a helpful RAD spares desk and set about learning how to change my own chain and sprocket on the Friday. They phoned me Friday morning and let me know they had managed to find a gap -  by then I was sorted.

I appreciated the follow up to say they could help. I was also personally impacted by their decision to help out at Q4Q.

In my business if I have top technician available and you are in a hurry then you have to pay his rate. If not wait and you can have one of my cheaper technicians. Also as a representative a quality German brand I can suggest short cuts that can help you remain in production but my contract does not allow me to take them myself. The risk of hurting the brand and ending up in a messy fight about consequential damage is too high.

It would be a very foolish agent/supplier who would risk modifying your fuel filter so you could finish. If dirt had then got past the paper filter and damaged the fuel pump your post here would have been far more vitriolic.

It all boils down to one thing. "In life there is no such thing as a free lunch."

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Offline RMN

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Re: RAD - Rip off or providing a service?
« Reply #99 on: October 16, 2012, 03:36:24 pm »
I thin this needs to be analysed correctly. RAD's costs are beside the point. My understanding is that they were asked to provide a back up service. Nowhere have I seen that this was a charitable service. It seems the organisers wanted people who knew their way around a bike to be on hand to help people who had a problem. It seems the other workshops have got fed up with this kind of backstabbing from the people they tried to help.

In real terms checking the WOA site they charge R320 for a heavy duty tube. The type of tube has not been mentioned but if I was providing back up for this type of event I would only have heavy duty tubes in stock. R350 at this stage looks entirely reasonable.

In terms of the slime it is more difficult as there are no internet prices that I can find. I paid R124 in a co-op at Thabazimbi recently. No more punctures would charge you R500 for both tyres plus a R100 call out charge. Based on that R100 for slime is also reasonable.

The real fight is around R350 to fix a tyre. Now you are in the bush and the only competent person is a qualified mechanic. R350 for a mechanic is a cheap hourly rate whether or not you want to believe it. The justification for a full hour charge is up for debate but that is up to you and the service provider. All in all it is up to you to speak up for yourself at the time and negotiate the best deal.  Maybe next time they should take their tyre staff along so they can charge less for this service, but then can they justify the expense.

In terms of Amageze I doubt you would have got the tubes for free. It is highly likely that KTM Cape Town had an agreement to provide the labour free. From what I have read here RAD did not have that agreement. They had been asked to help out and provide a service.

On a more personal note. I had decided to give RAD a try after moaning about them on this forum. My bike needed a new chain and sprockets as I wanted to go on a ride that weekend I wanted it done quickly - i.e. either Thursday or Friday. They could not help me as half their workshop was helping at Q4Q. I found a friend bought the spares from a helpful RAD spares desk and set about learning how to change my own chain and sprocket on the Friday. They phoned me Friday morning and let me know they had managed to find a gap -  by then I was sorted.

I appreciated the follow up to say they could help. I was also personally impacted by their decision to help out at Q4Q.

In my business if I have top technician available and you are in a hurry then you have to pay his rate. If not wait and you can have one of my cheaper technicians. Also as a representative a quality German brand I can suggest short cuts that can help you remain in production but my contract does not allow me to take them myself. The risk of hurting the brand and ending up in a messy fight about consequential damage is too high.

It would be a very foolish agent/supplier who would risk modifying your fuel filter so you could finish. If dirt had then got past the paper filter and damaged the fuel pump your post here would have been far more vitriolic.

It all boils down to one thing. "In life there is no such thing as a free lunch."


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