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Author Topic: 1200 GSA engine failure!!  (Read 10276 times)

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Offline IceCreamMan

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Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
« Reply #100 on: October 19, 2007, 08:00:21 am »
Welsh,
I agree
I am more convinced, altitude steady throttle (our roads) at a specific speed with poor fuel quality.
My 1200 GS Adv has the same, when I hear it pinging, I twist the gas open and the noise goes away because the ECU enriches the fuel mix.  Sometimes I just vary the throttle so the ECU does not get into a norm where it leans it off but I can assure you BMW will pay if my engine destroys itself.

BMW, wake up and get this matter in hand, what is taking you so long.

and when this hapens when the bike is out of warranty?
Born to lose, live to win!!
 

Steady

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Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
« Reply #101 on: October 19, 2007, 08:06:10 am »
OK had a web perusal.

See nothing significant, no patern, trust me the overseas boys scream.

I am more convinced, altitude steady throttle (our roads) at a specific speed with poor fuel quality.

I think you have a point Welsh, altitude and fuel quality. I always try and get 95RON but it is seldom available from anywhere outside of a big city Engen. If this is the case it will not be easily remedied by someone in Europe at sea level!
 

David van Breda

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Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
« Reply #102 on: October 19, 2007, 08:28:48 am »
OK had a web perusal.

See nothing significant, no patern, trust me the overseas boys scream.

I am more convinced, altitude steady throttle (our roads) at a specific speed with poor fuel quality.

I think you have a point Welsh, altitude and fuel quality. I always try and get 95RON but it is seldom available from anywhere outside of a big city Engen. If this is the case it will not be easily remedied by someone in Europe at sea level!

Then they've got to have the balls and take the flippen bikes off the market here until they have a solution covering the asses of the poors sods in the 5,6% bracket!!
 

Offline Colyn

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Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
« Reply #103 on: October 19, 2007, 08:39:00 am »
Davy ... I can assure you they are working on it at full speed ... the problem is that as it has been said here ... this is not happening elsewhere and obviously the factory cannot test over in Germany.

Fact is that they are aware of the problem and they are replacing the engines if it happens. If this had the potential to bankrupt them I am sure they would have recalled all the bikes ... don't you think so?

What I am curious about is this ... is this only happening to the GS's or is the RT's also doing it.
Never underestimate the power of denial.
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bobnob

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Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
« Reply #104 on: October 19, 2007, 08:41:35 am »
Davy ... I can assure you they are working on it at full speed ... the problem is that as it has been said here ... this is not happening elsewhere and obviously the factory cannot test over in Germany.

Fact is that they are aware of the problem and they are replacing the engines if it happens. If this had the potential to bankrupt them I am sure they would have recalled all the bikes ... don't you think so?

What I am curious about is this ... is this only happening to the GS's or is the RT's also doing it.

if i remember correctly guy on the thinkbike forum had his RT go boom at 47000km and bmw replaced the motor as well
 

kurt

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Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
« Reply #105 on: October 19, 2007, 09:26:03 am »
Davy ... I can assure you they are working on it at full speed ... the problem is that as it has been said here ... this is not happening elsewhere and obviously the factory cannot test over in Germany.

Fact is that they are aware of the problem and they are replacing the engines if it happens. If this had the potential to bankrupt them I am sure they would have recalled all the bikes ... don't you think so?

What I am curious about is this ... is this only happening to the GS's or is the RT's also doing it.

I see Colyn is trying to keep this fred as objective as possible. Can the moderator not get a survey going, which addresses all R1200 boxer motor users on this forum and try as objectively as possible, to gather some stats on the reliabilty issue?

 

Offline KiLRoy

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Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
« Reply #106 on: October 19, 2007, 09:42:08 am »
Wonder what will happen if someone goes down after an engin failure - will BMW then be father to their children?

H
 

bobnob

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Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
« Reply #107 on: October 19, 2007, 09:56:37 am »
Wonder what will happen if someone goes down after an engin failure - will BMW then be father to their children?

H

yes and a klr, a ducati, suzuki, etc has never seized...

its a machine it can and it will break

its just a matter of when...
 

Offline KiLRoy

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Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
« Reply #108 on: October 19, 2007, 10:44:03 am »
Difference between a known risk and an 'act of God' - big difference, one is avoidable the other not - take the blinkers off.

H
 

bobnob

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Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
« Reply #109 on: October 19, 2007, 11:33:14 am »
Difference between a known risk and an 'act of God' - big difference, one is avoidable the other not - take the blinkers off.

H

like the doohickey?

sure very few doohickeys caused a seized motor but it has happened...

kawasaki did not do a recall on all the klr's to fix the problem

actually after years and years i dont even think that kawasaki every confirmed that there was a problem

it all comes down to luck of the draw

i know lots and lots of people who's R1200's give them no crap

know of 4 people that had a motor blown

 

Offline Colyn

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Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
« Reply #110 on: October 19, 2007, 11:42:07 am »
Wonder what will happen if someone goes down after an engin failure - will BMW then be father to their children?

H

From your post I have to wonder ... did he go down on a Kawa or what ?

I am also not so sure that BMW would want to father children at random ... and also the widow would surely have to agree to carry the child :)

With BMW selected or proposed as the father I am wondering what brand would the mother be ? I did a search but could not find a single instance of a successful cross-breeding experiment :):)
Never underestimate the power of denial.
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Offline KiLRoy

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Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
« Reply #111 on: October 19, 2007, 11:46:10 am »
Yes its like the doo - but a doo failure will not (hopefully  ;D) cause a immediate engin failure at 3000kms AND Kawa doesn't claim to be the 'best4x4xfar' ito customer service and quality.  But I take your point.

I just wonder if someone has to die (god forbid) because of a engin failure on a GS due to a known problem, what the legal implications for BM would be?

H

Ps - Colyn the father is actually Rotax - ask Dakar owners  ;D ;)
 

Offline Colyn

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Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
« Reply #112 on: October 19, 2007, 12:00:23 pm »
@ KiLRoy ... I understand your concern but from what I have heard not one of the failures lead to a crash or am I mistaken ?

The potential danger of a catastrophic failure is on average something that is more prominent in the mind of the sportsbike riders because they do tend to "smeer" the bikes a bit more. Having said that I am also a bit nervous when I have to think of a engine blowing at high speed ... that is why I am curious if this failure is only present in the GS's ... and yes I know many guys do "smeer" their GS's as well ;)

However ... not one single motor out in the world can ever claim to be 100% failproof and I don't care what make it is.

So yes we need to question these things.
Never underestimate the power of denial.
Briek Merke ... wat ek so hier en daar op my lewenspad sien of los.
 

Offline Colyn

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Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
« Reply #113 on: October 19, 2007, 01:15:59 pm »
Ok I have confirmation ... this issue might affect all 1200 boxer engines and not only GS's :(
Never underestimate the power of denial.
Briek Merke ... wat ek so hier en daar op my lewenspad sien of los.
 

David van Breda

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Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
« Reply #114 on: October 19, 2007, 02:40:05 pm »
This is how the inside of an engine should NOT look like!  Makes me nauseas . . .



 

Offline Colyn

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Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
« Reply #115 on: October 19, 2007, 02:45:04 pm »
Oh mama ... that does not look good ... wow ... nee man Davy ek kan verstaan dat jy erg hartseer voel. Die is defnitief a ernstige probleem.
Never underestimate the power of denial.
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Offline CrazyPorra

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Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
« Reply #116 on: October 19, 2007, 04:15:55 pm »
Ohh, definetly not an @ (Africa Twin), it would still be purring away happely. O0
 

Offline buzzlightyear

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Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
« Reply #117 on: October 19, 2007, 04:37:09 pm »
It looks like the valves and piston met each other, not a hole in the piston as one would expect of lean running?

3 of the four valves seem to have broken stems?

So did all that happen from detonation?

A last comment, BMW in Namibia seems to be prepared to protect the brand's image more than BMW SA, or not? Just thinking about the hassles Adventurer is having. Maybe zee german konnektion from Windhoek to zee Deutschland is helping...
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." (Edmund Burke)
 

Offline Colyn

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Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
« Reply #118 on: October 19, 2007, 05:06:44 pm »
From what I can understand ... the issue is that the piston crown breaks off and then that loose part shatters the valves. This is what I know. There are two schools of thought ...

1. The Software is making the bike run lean and leads to overheating and the piston failure.
2. There is a material problem with the pistons.

My personal feeling is that 1 is the most probable one but then again I am not a Technician.
Never underestimate the power of denial.
Briek Merke ... wat ek so hier en daar op my lewenspad sien of los.
 

David van Breda

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Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
« Reply #119 on: October 19, 2007, 05:29:34 pm »
Colyn,

According to the fundi's here your two deductions are both correct.  The leaniness? of the combustion mixture caused by the software causes a "weakness" in the piston.  Heating it up to a point where it actually starts to break up instead of melting or burning holes into the piston.  If you look at the picture of the piston, you can see at the 7 o'clock position where it started to break up . . .  But hey, if the clever Jerman engineers can't even fix it in a year, how will we fix it sommer here?! ;D