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Offline gonedown

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Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
« Reply #20 on: October 17, 2007, 08:00:32 pm »
Not nice too hear.  :o

Makes me wonder why my bike gives me no kark. Mine should also have the latest software, it's a Feb 07 model, but in 33 000 km's I have had no kark what so-ever ;)

Maybe this will be a way for me to get a brand new motor  ::)

So Davy you just klapped it along at 160 plus?  You run it on 95 Super Fast Unleaded Green Juice?

Mine on 21000 and March 07 model - and no problems (touch wood).  Wonder why it only happens to 6%?
« Last Edit: October 17, 2007, 08:02:02 pm by gonedown »
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Offline gonedown

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Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
« Reply #21 on: October 17, 2007, 08:05:37 pm »

...... but can you not read  ;D ;D it is the 140 to 150 range, not your "cruising speed" the software probably leans it out too much for emission reasons and probably an Altitude issue, who else in the world cruises at this altitude at 140 / 150 except from our guys, remember the turbo diesels from BWM, would love to know if it just a Reef issue, as was the Turbo Diesels?

Welsh

Did not originally take much notice of the cruising speed - now obvious why no problems with mine - I don't go faster than 120! ;)
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Offline Plothond

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Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
« Reply #22 on: October 17, 2007, 08:08:35 pm »
Not nice too hear.  :o

Makes me wonder why my bike gives me no kark. Mine should also have the latest software, it's a Feb 07 model, but in 33 000 km's I have had no kark what so-ever ;)

Maybe this will be a way for me to get a brand new motor  ::)

So Davy you just klapped it along at 160 plus?  You run it on 95 Super Fast Unleaded Green Juice?


Good to see you again tonight Leo, but can you not read  ;D ;D it is the 140 to 150 range, not your "cruising speed" the software probably leans it out too much for emission reasons and probably an Altitude issue, who else in the world cruises at this altitude at 140 / 150 except from our guys, remember the turbo diesels from BWM, would love to know if it just a Reef issue, as was the Turbo Diesels?

Welsh

Interesting you mention the turbo diesels Welsh

I had 3 cars (yes read 3, three, drie) - and only paid for the first one

I had one of the first out and guess what, it karked out after about 2000km.
So BM put a new turbo
It karks out again (this time I get a car to drive as it takes about 3 weeks to fix)
Guess what, it karks out again. This time I have a AVIS car for about 4 weeks (lekker little Mercedes kompressor or something - cannot remember as it was a long time ago)

Now the wife is getting Pi___ed off
So she insists on a NEW car
.... and.....


.. WE GET ONE

Ha. justice is done !!!!

Guess what

....


.... yes you guessed it

It karks as well

So they fix.... bla bla AVIS again..... bla bla .....

Ride a few thousand clicks


Karks  ........ bla bla .... AVIS again ...... bla bla...


Wife throws another wobbly

... and ..... WE GET ANOTHER BRAND NEW OUT OF THE BOX

So we end up paying off a car for 20 months and still end up with a brand new one

BARGAIN

I just love BMW !!!
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Offline The TRANSPORTER

Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
« Reply #23 on: October 17, 2007, 08:10:39 pm »
you will now have a different engine number, making it dodgy to sell in future.
this not quite correct cos they only replace the internals as far as I am aware Adventurer and thus the engine number remains the same....not dodgy at all  ;D  ;D  ;D

Shit THATS worse who the hell wants an opened up engine after R135k AND 3500kms....stick it up their arse... >:D >:D
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bobnob

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Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
« Reply #24 on: October 17, 2007, 08:29:04 pm »
you will now have a different engine number, making it dodgy to sell in future.
this not quite correct cos they only replace the internals as far as I am aware Adventurer and thus the engine number remains the same....not dodgy at all  ;D  ;D  ;D

Shit THATS worse who the hell wants an opened up engine after R135k AND 3500kms....stick it up their arse... >:D >:D

sorry to hear about your crap!

that just sucks...

that is the one thing on my mind - planning a 6000km round trip for next year and what if my bike craps out in zambia?

with regards to the engine on bmw parts list there is a part number for an entire engine

they will order the entire engine and then just swap it out

and it should not be a problem with regards to the engine number - but if the bike gets coded as a rebuild due to the engine change then they can keep it
 

Offline Goose

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Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
« Reply #25 on: October 17, 2007, 08:45:10 pm »
This is serious - and without a doubt is the type of issue that all potential GSA buyers should be aware of...   >:( before they buy.

I do remember that there are huge issues with the SA Consumer Council.... when a company or manufacturer becomes aware of a serious design problem on a vehicle, they HAVE to recall all those specific models ... just need to find out the "nitty-gritty", as I remember it applies to a fault that could be life-threatening.... like karking while overtaking maybe?  :-[

Here's a cahnge for the newspaper articles then....
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Steady

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Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
« Reply #26 on: October 17, 2007, 08:55:06 pm »
you will now have a different engine number, making it dodgy to sell in future.
this not quite correct cos they only replace the internals as far as I am aware Adventurer and thus the engine number remains the same....not dodgy at all  ;D  ;D  ;D

Shit THATS worse who the hell wants an opened up engine after R135k AND 3500kms....stick it up their arse... >:D >:D

It's always interesting to read the responses to these threads, and this one is particularly interesting as it highlights a point. We very seldom hear the other side of the story, but in this case, The Transporter has reacted without reading all the posts. BMW have already told Davy that they are going to replace the entire engine with a brand new one from the factory!

Many posts on this forum alone where some members have had endless hassels with dealers of various bikes, here is one where there are no hassles, just getting it sorted with a brand new motor! No doubt that BM are trying to sort the issue out, it has to be cheaper than replacing 6% of all bike engines from a particular batch.

Sorry to hear about your bike Davy, no doubt that you have every right to be thin lipped, I on the other hand am pleased to hear that the manufacturer is not trying to weasel out of their obligation to you and your warranty. If you are not happy with the bike, dump it and get something else, if on the other hand you still feel that it's your dream bike give it a chance. Imagine if everyone that you ever disappointed gave up on you regardless of your efforts to rectify the situation?
 

Offline Adventurer

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Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
« Reply #27 on: October 17, 2007, 09:17:33 pm »
I agree partly with you Steady, the one problem I have is that is not the first time this has happened, if it was a 'once off' it is not really that serious, but there is a scary history.
As I have previously said, yhis is not mechanically related, the motor is not at fault, it is a software problem.
My question is why do they not re-install 'old' software until they sort out this problem?
They say that only 60 of a batch of 1000 have this problem, then why can they not track those 60 bikes and sort them out? Maybe 60 have popped so far?
If you can keep your head in the midst of all this confusion, you don't understand the situation!
 

Steady

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Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
« Reply #28 on: October 17, 2007, 10:01:15 pm »
No doubt Adventurer, it's actually a major fu@kup, but what are they to do, recall all bikes with that batch of software and then try and sort it, or try and sort it and then recall? Is it all the bikes from that batch, just the bikes riding at altitude, petrol octane related? I cannot comment as I do not know, but it sounds like bm are aware of the problem and are willing to see the customer right.

At the GSC I rode with Lochlan and asked him about the bash plate issue and Der Vaderland's solution. He did explain that worldwide there is a computer link to the factory, every fault, with every bike is reported to them and they crunch the numbers. Now 6% is a co@kup, no doubt, however the bashplate issue is interesting as elsewhere in the world it is unheard of, so as a percentage of all 1200's produced the bashplate is not a factory problem, it's a rider problem, go round the rock's not over them! That's not what they said by the way, but I think that they are of the opinion that the Saffa's ride the bikes like enduro bikes, which they are not. I have to believe that as a market leader of 1lt dual sport bikes, and by a long way, they did not get there by accident and will stand by the product, it's in their interest to do so. If out of the more than 100 000 bikes produced over the 4 years 6% were shite, bm bikes would have gone the way of the dodo by now. Truth is they have a small percentage of problems and as a percentage they have a small number of problems that they do not sort out under warranty. Fact is nobody logs onto a forum and proclaims xxxxx trouble free km's, I mean, after all that's what you expect. So when it goes south, you get huffed, and quite right too. Hope Davy gets his bike sorted and BM take care of the paper work on the new engine too. I would buy a bike with a new engine, that way you know there has not been a rebuild. I think that my point is, so often you hear of manufacturers trying the soft shoe shuffle, rather than taking it on the chin, in this instance, as I understand it, bm are going to take care of the problem. I know Davy is pissed but I for one am happy to hear it. Imagine spending 125 sticks and you hope the boys will honour the warranty. :o
 

Offline Colyn

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Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
« Reply #29 on: October 17, 2007, 10:38:48 pm »
@ Steady ... I like your responses ... I am really amazed that so many posters are inciting a riot AFTER the dealer already committed to replacing the engine. Now I am astounded to hear he (owner) wants to or is advised to go in there and raise hell ?

Maybe go for a general walk about and be truthful and see how many manufacturers actually stand by their product like BMW does. I am personally aware of a few seriously ABUSED "breakdowns" where BMW just gritted their teeth and fixed the bike without a fuzz.

Just recently I witnessed an incident where a K1200S blew it's motor after it was already out of the warranty period and BMW is replacing the motor under warranty.

From the information I have this problem of the motor blowing on the R1200's is probably linked to the software upgrades that were done to comply with the new EU specs. South Africa is one of the peculiar places on earth where high altitude is not linked to low temperatures. The Highveld is hot as hell and that is contrary to what is the case in Europe and Northern America. This was one of the reasons for the spate of Turbos blowing on the 3 series cars. This is also why BMW recommends that you do not use the TWEAKED Chips from North America ... they make the engines run too lean for the temperatures that we have at high altitude.

I am sure they will get a fix for it soon and in the meantime you could keep an eye on your consumption ... if it suddenly gets really too good to be true then it is time to take the bike in for a decent check-up.
Never underestimate the power of denial.
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David van Breda

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Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
« Reply #30 on: October 17, 2007, 10:58:56 pm »
Decent comments there Steady!  ;)

No I will not go raise hell Colyn, I need to try and speed up the delivery of the engine though...3 weeks is a long time man!

I must make it very clear that the dealer (especiallhy the salesman Hedley Trevor and the parts manager Neville Louw, a mate of mine) has performed absolutely gallantly in this instance.  Hedley had me updated on the potential problem within one hour after I reported the issue and a breakdown on site even quicker.  They agreed to pay my own recovery back to base etc. etc.

I am really ticked off but if I put the emotions to the side, the dealer is trying to sort me out asap.  I need to get my head around the issues like having two major failure on a 6 week old bike and the non gaurantee for future similar failures.  I am also not keep on additives and shit to be added and managed into the tank. . .

I have an early morning sitdown with them tomorrow and will let you know the outcome . . .
 

Offline Colyn

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Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
« Reply #31 on: October 17, 2007, 11:33:57 pm »
Good for you Davy ... trust me ... I have empathy with your emotions but on the other hand ... we are dealing with plastic and metal here and things can go wrong. The most important part is the fact that the brand and the dealer is not backing away from the issue.

I have a suspicion that the 3 weeks could be due to the fact that BMW is trying to resolve the underlying issue but then again ... that K1200S engine was also quoted 3 weeks delivery ... that might be the cycle of their shipping.
Never underestimate the power of denial.
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Offline Dirtybill

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Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
« Reply #32 on: October 18, 2007, 06:13:37 am »
I had a tough day yesterday which left me completely disillusioned! 

As I mentioned elsewhere on the site, my new 1200GSA's fuelpump failed at 1000kms leaving me stranded in traffic . . .
It was duly replaced by the agent the next day and all was well again.

I was on a long trip yesterday.  Riding along in pure pliss thru thunderstorms and open veld, I noticed a ''flat spot'' in acceleration around the 140-150km/h mark.  Over that speed it pulled lik an ox all the way further into illegal speeds.

Sitting lekker at around 160 there was a complete loss of power and engine cut-out with all the accompanying backfire and pinging type noises . . .  I somehow recovered the engine and continued to ride on.  I was in a remote part of the country with no cellphone reception and not a lot of options . . .

Then about 50-60kms further, there was a moer of a bang and the whole farking motor just clonked out!  It was completely in its moer . . . Blown to pieces . . .

I had reception by then and called my friendly BMW dealer (they really are!) and they promptly organized a rescue team.  After a while they called me back and told me that research shows that about 60 of the 1000 GSA's sold in SA has suffered the same fate because of a software glitch in the electronic engine management sytem!  Apparently the system pre or post ignite around 14-150 in 6th gear and then eventually you have an engine failure.

We agreed in principle to have a new engine fitted with all the new warranties in place again but firmly stated that they do not gaurentee it will not happen again!  They are still working on the software and some kind of additive in the fuel will help for the time being!

I have a meeting with them tomorrow and will basically tell them to fix and take back the bike.  It has now done 3400kms but I have lost faith in it sadly!  It has now officially a worse track record than all of the 9 Land Rovers I owned in my life!  Obviously I cannot find the words to describe my total sadness and feeling of loss,  but in the end, I cannot continue on this path with a 160k investment!



Don't feel bad.  I had similar incidents with my 05 950 KTM Adventure.   KTM North America would go completely silent when I said I wanted a different bike.  At least BMW will replace the motor.  KTM North America will not.   The most money I have ever spent on a new purchase motorcyle and the worst reliability record and close to the worst customer service I've ever experienced.

KTM will never get another cent out of me.  They're advertising over here is complete fraud and I dare them to try and sue me over that statement, because I'm not the only who has sold their Kost To Much after owning it for a short while.

My Husqvarna TE610 after a year of some brutal riding has not missed a beat.  Best purchase ever made by BMW, but mine still says "manufactured by MV Augusta" on it!!
 

Offline Adventurer

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Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
« Reply #33 on: October 18, 2007, 06:27:08 am »
We can say what ever we want here, it has been pointed out to me by the powers that be at BMW that 'we should not believe anything on the internet, it is hearsay and has not been verified by BMW'!
I understand that BMW is doing it's best to fix Davy's bike, but FFS what other choice do they have? The bike is still under warranty and has around 3000km on the clock, it would be total lunacy for ANY company to try and dodge this issue.
I also understand that this is only a small percentage problem, but when you are part of that small percentage it is a MASSIVE problem.
I still maintain that BMW Germany should build their bikes tough enough to satisfy SA requirements, otherwise they should go the Triumph Tiger route and make the GS a STREET bike.(Now now, KTM riders... ;D ;D) If they continually advertise the GS as a DUAL Sport bike, then FFS make it tough enough to do the job.
That crap about the bash plate, go around a rock instead of over it, well then why fit a bash plate in the first place? At least call it a 'stone deflecter' not a 'bash plate'. Why not save more weight and leave it off completely?
Excuse my rantings, but BMW is NOT my favourite marque at the moment!
If you can keep your head in the midst of all this confusion, you don't understand the situation!
 

Offline Colyn

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Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
« Reply #34 on: October 18, 2007, 07:18:35 am »
Quote
I understand that BMW is doing it's best to fix Davy's bike, but FFS what other choice do they have? The bike is still under warranty and has around 3000km on the clock, it would be total lunacy for ANY company to try and dodge this issue.

You will be surprised ... how about ... "We will send this back to Germany and let the factory tell us what went wrong."

As for the lunacy part ... I have heard some real ridiculous reasons why claims have not be honoured from other manufacturers.

BTW ... I have never seen an advert where BMW claimed the 1200 to be a TRAIL bike.
Never underestimate the power of denial.
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Offline gonedown

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Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
« Reply #35 on: October 18, 2007, 07:22:53 am »
Just thought of something reading the latest posts.  People are talking about the problem being at high altitude/speed combination issue and wondered about the altitude in Windhoek.

Checked on mapsource - around 1600m.  Shiiiitt - learned something - didn't realise they same as Joburg!! :o

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Offline Adventurer

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Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
« Reply #36 on: October 18, 2007, 07:32:25 am »
Quote
I understand that BMW is doing it's best to fix Davy's bike, but FFS what other choice do they have? The bike is still under warranty and has around 3000km on the clock, it would be total lunacy for ANY company to try and dodge this issue.



BTW ... I have never seen an advert where BMW claimed the 1200 to be a TRAIL bike.

No, but they do claim it is an ADVENTURE bike. ;D
And they do throw things like the GS Challenge at it, including Red Route, which is tough. They don't say that 1200 GSAs cannot go on Red Route because they are not tough enough....
If you can keep your head in the midst of all this confusion, you don't understand the situation!
 

Offline michnus

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Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
« Reply #37 on: October 18, 2007, 07:40:14 am »
Blikems sad, I hope you can regain some faith in the bike and enjoy it for what you wanted to use it.

It is concerning to hear when engines go, so much more when they go into self destruct mode. The biggest thing I am worried about is when that the bike is out of warranty, sure they might like your face and help you when it's juuust out of warranty, but after that, you're screwed big time.

I haven't heard of other bike engines that self destruct, sure have to be, even the 6% mentioned is way to many.

Colyn.
Quote
As for the lunacy part ... I have heard some real ridiculous reasons why claims have not be honoured from other manufacturers

These kind of statements aren't good for anything. And like Adventurer said, I would expect them to replace the motor in warranty time, nothing less.

The bike is a R1200GS.......Gelande/Strasse or something, by implication a trail bike.

PS, I recall seeing some pics of 1200 motors where the cylinders broke into small pieces, might be the same what happened here? Davy can you post some pics of the motor if they allow you to, or when they take it apart.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2007, 07:46:57 am by michnus »
 

Offline LostDOG

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Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
« Reply #38 on: October 18, 2007, 07:49:32 am »
No doubt Adventurer, it's actually a major fu@kup, but what are they to do, recall all bikes with that batch of software and then try and sort it, or try and sort it and then recall? Is it all the bikes from that batch, just the bikes riding at altitude, petrol octane related? I cannot comment as I do not know, but it sounds like bm are aware of the problem and are willing to see the customer right.

At the GSC I rode with Lochlan and asked him about the bash plate issue and Der Vaderland's solution. He did explain that worldwide there is a computer link to the factory, every fault, with every bike is reported to them and they crunch the numbers. Now 6% is a co@kup, no doubt, however the bashplate issue is interesting as elsewhere in the world it is unheard of, so as a percentage of all 1200's produced the bashplate is not a factory problem, it's a rider problem, go round the rock's not over them! That's not what they said by the way, but I think that they are of the opinion that the Saffa's ride the bikes like enduro bikes, which they are not. I have to believe that as a market leader of 1lt dual sport bikes, and by a long way, they did not get there by accident and will stand by the product, it's in their interest to do so. If out of the more than 100 000 bikes produced over the 4 years 6% were shite, bm bikes would have gone the way of the dodo by now. Truth is they have a small percentage of problems and as a percentage they have a small number of problems that they do not sort out under warranty. Fact is nobody logs onto a forum and proclaims xxxxx trouble free km's, I mean, after all that's what you expect. So when it goes south, you get huffed, and quite right too. Hope Davy gets his bike sorted and BM take care of the paper work on the new engine too. I would buy a bike with a new engine, that way you know there has not been a rebuild. I think that my point is, so often you hear of manufacturers trying the soft shoe shuffle, rather than taking it on the chin, in this instance, as I understand it, bm are going to take care of the problem. I know Davy is pissed but I for one am happy to hear it. Imagine spending 125 sticks and you hope the boys will honour the warranty. :o

+1

A thread started on OC, where instead of telling everyone about your bike's faults, tell everyone about your faultless ones - they FAR outweigh the ones with faults.

It's a friggen motorcycle, it's not supposed to be comfortable, quiet or safe. The windnoise is supposed to hurt your ears, the seat should be hard and riding it should make you shit your pants every now and then. Suck it up. -- Scary Gary MC
 

Offline michnus

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Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
« Reply #39 on: October 18, 2007, 07:57:59 am »
Easy for us all to say how wonderfull about the bikes that don't break. Wait until it happen to you.

Make no mistake a small percentage means bugger all, if it cost you money when a engine blows, Davy is lucky it's in warranty time, let's have this discussion when it's out and will cost you big money for a new motor.

This is not just a small problem, this can heppen to my bike next!