Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register

Author Topic: 1200 GSA engine failure!!  (Read 10880 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Beemer Man (RIP)

  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Bike: BMW R1200GS
    Location: Gauteng
  • Posts: 2,408
Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
« Reply #60 on: October 18, 2007, 11:37:15 am »
Steady I must comment on your remarks,  because I hate the percentage argument, I agree 100% in principal with all that you say, however the problem with your argument is, and I have had the exact same response from a couple of German Manufactures when they start to quote the failure stats as infantisimal compared with the number produced.
When you look at the number of failures that have happened in SA as a total compared to the number sold here, the percentage figure is high, so for them to say it is an acceptable failure rate is not correct, we have an unacceptable failure rate here in SA.

I was told by a huge German engine manufacturer that their failure rate on a particular engine we had huge problems with was 0.0025% which they believed was completely acceptable, when I pointed out we owned 10 of these units which had all failed which was a 100% failure rate and to us was completely unacceptable, it kind of changes the perspective, this is exactly the senario we have here.
Unfortunately the Germans in particular, have a habit of believing their engineering is invinsible and it takes a lot of convinsing otherwise, but I am pleased to see that in this case there is no argument about changing the engine, however the core problem has not been solved.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2007, 11:45:03 am by Beemer man »
I think if I actually found My mind, I probably wouldn't know what to do with it,
 

Offline Sláinte Mhaith

Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
« Reply #61 on: October 18, 2007, 11:40:25 am »
.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2013, 11:09:08 am by Sláinte Mhaith »
 

Offline KiLRoy

  • Rossi se Biaggi...
  • Administrator
  • Bachelor Dog
  • ***
  • Bike: BMW R1200GS
    Location: Gauteng
  • Posts: 15,551
  • Thanked: 744 times
  • We need a strong man. Strong like Stalin
    • Wild Dog Adventure Riders
Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
« Reply #62 on: October 18, 2007, 11:41:05 am »
Quote
One rand or R140k makes no difference
- i disagree - you pay for service, its included in the R140k, less so in the R40k Kawa.

The service I would expect is:  'Oh f@k Davy, this is not suppose to happen after 3000kms - this will greatly inconvenience you - rather take a brand-new bike in its place, that way we shall stay true to our motto of "uber-alles" customer service'

Ito protecting your motor agains shit in the fuel - don't think so, there's only shit in the fuel in Africa and we already established they don't build bikes for SA conditions (bashplate???).  I thought a filter and cloth keep shit out your tank in Africa.

They are the brand that put themselves on the throne of 'best quality and service' and charge for it accordingly - they must set the standard regarding this shit - can't talk the talk, collect the money but give lip service when you need to act on your talk - thats skelm.  I expect much better cutomer satisfaction from BM as from Kawa - because I paid more.  I would also expect better service when buying a RollsRoyce as when buying a Opel - obviously.

H
 

Offline Sláinte Mhaith

Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
« Reply #63 on: October 18, 2007, 12:04:13 pm »
.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2013, 11:09:11 am by Sláinte Mhaith »
 

Offline Sláinte Mhaith

Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
« Reply #64 on: October 18, 2007, 12:07:47 pm »
.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2013, 11:09:14 am by Sláinte Mhaith »
 

kurt

  • Guest
Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
« Reply #65 on: October 18, 2007, 12:11:30 pm »
Das ist alles eine grosse Scheisse, ja?  :cussing:
 

Offline Colyn

  • Shutterbug
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Bike: BMW R1200GS
    Location: Mpumalanga
  • Posts: 1,295
  • K1200LT - R1200GS
    • Tripwired
Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
« Reply #66 on: October 18, 2007, 12:12:18 pm »
@ KiLRoy ... this thread is about a R 1200 that failed ... you keep on comparing Kawa with BMW and then quote a price of R40k against R140K

I am just curious ... how do you get to that comparison ... Kawa do not even have a 1200 cc Bike that can compare to the GS 1200 ?

Another point ... yep filters and rags can CLEAN your fuel but can do nothing for those instances where you are faced with a sub-standard fuel quality.

You paragraph that includes the word "skelm" is a bit on the rough side ... I am not aware of an instance where BMW did not Walk the Walk.

The August AMID figures tells an interesting story ...

In the 500cc+ Category where the Kawasaki bikes are competing ... Kawasaki is the second most popular seller ... second to BMW F650 GS and Dakar ... both bikes are a lot more expensive than Kawasaki yet the YTD figures are ...

BMW = 533 Units
Kawa = 496 Units

A narrow margin in some respects but yet a good Margin if you consider the price difference plus the fact that the BMW's in this class is getting long in the tooth. The recent advent of the new 650's could have an effect on the unit sales in the new month.

In the 800cc+ Class where Kawa is not a competitor the stats are as follows ...

BMW = 952 Units
KTM = 115 Units

Here it is interesting to note that the BMW Bikes are outselling the second place contender almost at a ratio of 10:1.

Now if all the things mentioned by you were true it can be said that there are a lot of uninformed buyers out in the market.

I can understand frustrations when mechanical failures occurs but to go into full attack mode against a brand and a dealer network that has a strong reputation for looking after their customers is not the right thing to do.

The constant reference to the Bashplate is also confusing me ... facts are that a vast number of riders completed all the routes on the recent GSC and even on the RED routes riders completed the routes WITHOUT wrecking the bash plates. Someone else mentioned in another thread that many of the bashplate failures can be contributed to rider conduct and I do agree with that view.
Never underestimate the power of denial.
Briek Merke ... wat ek so hier en daar op my lewenspad sien of los.
 

Offline KiLRoy

  • Rossi se Biaggi...
  • Administrator
  • Bachelor Dog
  • ***
  • Bike: BMW R1200GS
    Location: Gauteng
  • Posts: 15,551
  • Thanked: 744 times
  • We need a strong man. Strong like Stalin
    • Wild Dog Adventure Riders
Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
« Reply #67 on: October 18, 2007, 12:32:11 pm »
Its simple really Colyn.

Do you think you get your filter coffee and grand showrooms at BMW for free, no its included in the price to pay.  The price you pay for a BM includes a much higher % of 'service', brand-related and 'livestyle' cost than that of a R40k KLR.  Therefore one would expect the service to be much better.  If one promises this service, and the client is paying for it (in the price) but get the same service than a much cheaper brand ie not getting the service one promised, then that party is skelm.  If this was the case in this instance, i don't know, I just stated the underlying economics.

If BM acted on all there promises - I don't know, never own one, probably never will.  Ask Adventurer and others - they owned a few.

ITO the sub-standard fuel - my main point is that Europe don't have this problem so why make something for Africa, if what the guys are saying about the bashplate is true - they don't design bikes for Africa - now this don't make sense or what?

H

Ps.  Did you think BMW Road assistance is free???   If not how is it funded????
 

Offline Colyn

  • Shutterbug
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Bike: BMW R1200GS
    Location: Mpumalanga
  • Posts: 1,295
  • K1200LT - R1200GS
    • Tripwired
Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
« Reply #68 on: October 18, 2007, 12:44:46 pm »
Nope ... I pay for that Roadside assist ... as a matter of fact my Warranty is for TWO years and my Roadside assist is for THREE years ... all well documented in my paperwork.

Yes the frills are part of the cost but to many it is a great comfort to walk into a Showroom while dressed in your stylish fancy suit and your wife on her 1000.00 a pair designer sneekers without fear of getting grubbed or slip on a oil puddle. We are willing to pay for that front end.

We are also willing to pay for the Brand Promotion and to me it is good to see how they spend some of the bucks they take from me again on ME ... It is a choice I make but on the backend ... if things do go wrong with my BMW I expect to see that backend and frontend machine kick into gear and resolve my issue. I have been driving BMW's since 1980 and riding Kawasakis ... in 2005 I bought my first BMW bike ... a K1200 GT ... took me less than 100 kms in the saddle to question myself for taking so long to do it. SInce then I have purchased 5 more bikes from BMW and not in one single instance have the BMW network failed to deliver what they promised.

So let's discuss the issues when they happen but let us also give credit where credit is due.
Never underestimate the power of denial.
Briek Merke ... wat ek so hier en daar op my lewenspad sien of los.
 

Offline JacquesM

  • Vendors
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Bike: Yamaha TW200
    Location: Western Cape
  • Posts: 1,794
  • Thanked: 56 times
Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
« Reply #69 on: October 18, 2007, 01:01:05 pm »
Eish. I'm hoping to collect my Adv on Monday.

Does anybody know where one whispers in it's ear to find out if it sees itself as in the 94, or maybe in the 6?

Will be handy to know beforehand.....
 

kurt

  • Guest
Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
« Reply #70 on: October 18, 2007, 01:21:27 pm »
Eish. I'm hoping to collect my Adv on Monday.

Does anybody know where one whispers in it's ear to find out if it sees itself as in the 94, or maybe in the 6?

Will be handy to know beforehand.....

Have faith in your decision, JacquesM. She'll be allright, mate.
 

Offline JacquesM

  • Vendors
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Bike: Yamaha TW200
    Location: Western Cape
  • Posts: 1,794
  • Thanked: 56 times
Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
« Reply #71 on: October 18, 2007, 01:33:22 pm »
Hey swaer, I need faith in the bike.
 

Offline michnus

  • PikiPiki Overland
  • Bachelor Dog
  • *****
  • Bike: BMW R1200GS HP2
    Location: Other
  • Posts: 13,072
  • Thanked: 7 times
    • Pikipiki Overland
Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
« Reply #72 on: October 18, 2007, 01:36:41 pm »
Hey swaer, I need faith in the bike.

Why?

Offline Beemer Man (RIP)

  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Bike: BMW R1200GS
    Location: Gauteng
  • Posts: 2,408
Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
« Reply #73 on: October 18, 2007, 02:11:46 pm »
Interesting to note that BMW makes an average of only 10K a bike, not too much in my opinion when you look at what they offer at their dealerships as a whole.
I think if I actually found My mind, I probably wouldn't know what to do with it,
 

Steady

  • Guest
Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
« Reply #74 on: October 18, 2007, 02:20:39 pm »
Eish. I'm hoping to collect my Adv on Monday.

Does anybody know where one whispers in it's ear to find out if it sees itself as in the 94, or maybe in the 6?

Will be handy to know beforehand.....


JacquesM I have one and I love it, more important to me is that my missus likes riding on the back with me. If you get half the amount of enjoyment out of your bike that I get out of mine you are going to be one real happy chappy.

Enjoy, hope to see you on the road sometime.
 

David van Breda

  • Guest
Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
« Reply #75 on: October 18, 2007, 02:35:04 pm »
OK,

I'm just back from the BM workshop.  The engine is completely shot.  I will place some gory pictures tomorrow!

Where we stand now:

I new engine will be fitted without delay, probably in the next week or two three
The electronic engine management system ran the engine too lean in a certain rev-range (140-150kmp in 6th gear) and that made the piston disintegrate with obvious consequences to the rest of the engine.
The local dealer is painfully aware of the 60 year old rider who lost 3 engines to exactly the same cause recently. . .
No, they cannot give me assurance that the same will not happen to the new engine, even with the octane booster additive . .
They are prepared to keep on fitting new engines till they have the shit sorted out!

Despite the helpfulness and assistance received from the local guys, I have told them that I prefer to return the bike to them and buy one again in a year's time when they have the software sorted out.  They are prepared to do that and we are now doing the calculations.

What is a bit scary is that that bike will be on the floor as a demo/secondhand unit before Christmas this year....!  I had to wait 5 month for it and they are sure they are gonna make somebody's day by having a bike available rather quick.  I am being treated well but I feel a bit sick about the issue as a whole. . .

 
« Last Edit: October 18, 2007, 02:38:28 pm by Davy »
 

Offline Uiltjie

  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Bike: AJS (all models)
    Location: Western Cape
  • Posts: 2,567
  • Thanked: 3 times
  • Caledon
    • http://www.goudinie.co.za
Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
« Reply #76 on: October 18, 2007, 02:50:52 pm »
I think they should give you a demo bike for the 5 months, and then still give you the new bike at the current price.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2007, 02:51:52 pm by Uiltjie »
"Sit vis vobiscum."
 

Offline Eisbein

  • Bachelor Dog
  • *****
  • Bike: BMW R1200GS Adventure
    Location: Western Cape
  • Posts: 12,163
  • Thanked: 95 times
  • Kraaifontein Plugspanner!
    • Music Ramblings by a serial hobbyist
Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
« Reply #77 on: October 18, 2007, 02:56:22 pm »
BeeEm is certainly coming to the party on this.

But can't they sort the software out ?

Them not leaving you and accommodating you is very good.

But I would be suspicious about trusting the new engine until they said that its sorted.

Thumbsup to the BeeEm garage. They can only do what headoffice let them do.
Thumbs down to the BM R&D guys :(



02/02/12 - RIP Glen - the Arrow of Elliot and the little man with the big heart that truly was larger than life.

You have touched us and left us better for having known you - even if it was only briefly.

For grabbing the moment and living the day It's been way too early that you were taken away
 

Offline Colyn

  • Shutterbug
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Bike: BMW R1200GS
    Location: Mpumalanga
  • Posts: 1,295
  • K1200LT - R1200GS
    • Tripwired
Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
« Reply #78 on: October 18, 2007, 02:58:05 pm »
Hmmm ... so what Bike are you going to buy now ?
Never underestimate the power of denial.
Briek Merke ... wat ek so hier en daar op my lewenspad sien of los.
 

Offline FortyZA

  • Member
  • **
  • Bike: BMW R1200GS Adventure
    Location: Eastern Cape
  • Posts: 425
  • East London
Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
« Reply #79 on: October 18, 2007, 03:05:20 pm »
I would be happy with a new engine replacement on my bike with 37000km ...it is a bargain ...new warranties etc.

But on a new bike with 3000km and less than one year old ...I would expect a new bike.
You have spent lots of money put together according to standards ...now the engine is replaced without any guarantee that those standards are met ...most likely with a bolt, screw or clip missing.

I work for a German Car Manufacturer and the warranty on all product are worded more or less the same and it goes something like this:

If a part is replaced under warranty (engine, gearbox, brake caliper or wherever) in month 2 or a 2 year warranty, then that part carries the remainder of the 2 years.  If a (engine, gearbox, brake caliper or wherever) is replaced on the last week of the 2 year warranty, that part is warrantied for the week until the 2 year initial contract / warranty is up.  If a customer pay in for the part, it carries a 2 year warranty on that part.

So Davys engine will be covered for just under 2 years (+/- 6 tp 9 weeks) depending on when he get his bike back. That is fact, not fiction. As any dealer.
BMW 1220 Adv (2006)
WR450F (777 - cool blue)
KDX 250 (Pink panther) Sold