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Offline eberhard

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Re: Tribute to < 19" front wheels...
« Reply #40 on: January 01, 2013, 09:44:30 pm »
@ButchH
Much appreciated.
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Offline ButchH

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Re: Tribute to < 19" front wheels...
« Reply #41 on: January 01, 2013, 09:45:19 pm »
@ButchH
Much appreciated.

Is there a ride report that you posted that I missed  :deal:
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Offline alanB

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Re: Tribute to < 19" front wheels...
« Reply #42 on: January 01, 2013, 09:46:39 pm »
Lets leave it at that.  Its distorting the thread.

 :thumleft: Cool, I will rest my case.  Have a great 2013 :thumleft:

Hope you have a really good 2013 too Rynet  :thumleft:
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Offline eberhard

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Re: Tribute to < 19" front wheels...
« Reply #43 on: January 01, 2013, 09:51:24 pm »
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Offline Oshkosh

Re: Tribute to < 19" front wheels...
« Reply #44 on: January 01, 2013, 09:52:40 pm »
I did 125,000 km , including 2 Amagezas , injury -free , on my GS1200 with a 19 inch wheel and loved every minute of it .  It perfectly suited my needs . I don't need to race everywhere anymore , or commute far , so I bought a KLR which suits my needs better for now.

I find the 21 inch is better in some applications , in others it is worse . Its by no means the magical panacea it is said to be. 

The worse thing about my 19 inch ? The  constant negative comments about BMW since I joined this forum. Especially from Badseed, 2 Stroke Dan and Alan B.

And on threads when a female has had an accident, they hijack the thread by telling the woman she was on the wrong bike. Like a friend of mine who fell off the cliff at Die Hell , if it was a guy he would have been cool for overshooting the corner . Because it was a woman on a GS800 the bike was too big for her .  While the rest of us wondered whether she would be paralysed or even die, the haters came out and attacked the bike she was riding , on her accident thread . How insensitive . Start your own threads but leave the ladies alone.


I think it is about control . Preventing us females from making up our own minds , from deciding what bikes we want to ride , from enjoying the bikes we chose so carefully . Women do not buy bikes because they grab us by the balls , we are actually more likely to have done the research to get the bike that suits our many needs.  We are not gullible to fall for some marketing campaign . ( or rather our illusion as to a marketing campaign) As Wes said above , there are many many aspects of a bike that one looks at , not just wheel size. And who are you to tell someone else what is good for them? You cannot know our individual reasons and specifications . People are different , we are not all alike. We don't only ride on Sundays like the riding gods , we do other things with our bikes also.

 I see you don't pick on the blokes who have accidents , just the ladies .  But please stop already . We are not idiots and we are not married to you , so please stop controlling us . 



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Offline ButchH

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Re: Tribute to < 19" front wheels...
« Reply #45 on: January 01, 2013, 09:59:05 pm »
I did 125,000 km , including 2 Amagezas , injury -free , on my GS1200 with a 19 inch wheel and loved every minute of it .  It perfectly suited my needs . I don't need to race everywhere anymore , or commute far , so I bought a KLR which suits my needs better for now.

I find the 21 inch is better in some applications , in others it is worse . Its by no means the magical panacea it is said to be. 

The worse thing about my 19 inch ? The  constant negative comments about BMW since I joined this forum. Especially from Badseed, 2 Stroke Dan and Alan B.

And on threads when a female has had an accident, they hijack the thread by telling the woman she was on the wrong bike. Like a friend of mine who fell off the cliff at Die Hell , if it was a guy he would have been cool for overshooting the corner . Because it was a woman on a GS800 the bike was too big for her .  While the rest of us wondered whether she would be paralysed or even die, the haters came out and attacked the bike she was riding , on her accident thread . How insensitive . Start your own threads but leave the ladies alone.


I think it is about control . Preventing us females from making up our own minds , from deciding what bikes we want to ride , from enjoying the bikes we chose so carefully . Women do not buy bikes because they grab us by the balls , we are actually more likely to have done the research to get the bike that suits our many needs.  We are not gullible to fall for some marketing campaign . ( or rather our illusion as to a marketing campaign) As Wes said above , there are many many aspects of a bike that one looks at , not just wheel size. And who are you to tell someone else what is good for them? You cannot know our individual reasons and specifications . People are different , we are not all alike. We don't only ride on Sundays like the riding gods , we do other things with our bikes also.

 I see you don't pick on the blokes who have accidents , just the ladies .  But please stop already . We are not idiots and we are not married to you , so please stop controlling us . 



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Offline alanB

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Re: Tribute to < 19" front wheels...
« Reply #46 on: January 01, 2013, 09:59:38 pm »
Quote
alanB you dislike the marketing of BMW of the Dakar, so the 21" wheel did not do it for you in dirt, fine but why blame marketing for your poor decision, nobody forced you to buy the bike, I have done many K@k decisions in my life as well if you get sucked up into the marketing hype you will/can burn your Arse?

Nice!  We're back on track (no pun).

Ja the DaKar had 21" front - it handled Ok on smooth gravel, - but virtually any bike will I think.  But it was a real hand full in anything slightly technical - much more than a 650 ever should be - the heavy weight and puny shocks were the major problem - but thats just my opinion again.

You are right  I should have known better when buying the bike - but the glossy magazines and the whole BMW "spell" sucked me in.

Wont be fooled again though!
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Offline Oshkosh

Re: Tribute to < 19" front wheels...
« Reply #47 on: January 01, 2013, 10:13:03 pm »
Quote
alanB you dislike the marketing of BMW of the Dakar, so the 21" wheel did not do it for you in dirt, fine but why blame marketing for your poor decision, nobody forced you to buy the bike, I have done many K@k decisions in my life as well if you get sucked up into the marketing hype you will/can burn your Arse?

Nice!  We're back on track (no pun).

Ja the DaKar had 21" front - it handled Ok on smooth gravel, - but virtually any bike will I think.  But it was a real hand full in anything slightly technical - much more than a 650 ever should be - the heavy weight and puny shocks were the major problem - but thats just my opinion again.

You are right  I should have known better when buying the bike - but the glossy magazines and the whole BMW "spell" sucked me in.

Wont be fooled again though!




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Offline alanB

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Re: Tribute to < 19" front wheels...
« Reply #48 on: January 01, 2013, 10:15:41 pm »
The angle I was trying to take was that a couple of months ago Gideon Joubert loaned me a Dr650 for a tip up the west coat (Hondeklipbaai , Alexander Bay, Pela etc) which has shit load of deep soft sand , especially in summer and on previous rides up there on my 990 I battled the bike and crashed more times than I care to remember. On the DR it was a doddle, easy seated riding without an incident , almost like cheating. On top of that the final couple of hundred KMs home on the tar were not that bad either. I know for a fact that a GS650 with me riding it would have been hell. So my advise to the less experiencd riders and ladies  (generally less physically strong than the guys) not to fall into the BM or nothing mould and try a lighter easier to ride option.

I agree with you.  

Its not a brand thing.

Nor is it about the size of the front wheel only.

IMO its about choosing the right bike for what you want to do.

Its actually quite simple.

Small and light = nice off road experience, its MUCH MUCH easier, and far more enjoyable and probably safer in difficult terrain....but you accept a compromise for long distance road touring.

Large and powerful = great way of eating distance on tar at speed in comfort as well as carrying bigger loads.......but needs a lot more care and effort when going properly off road and you will probably fall more (although some gifted people can make it look easy).

Your choice!

Its your money, your life etc.
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Offline ButchH

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Re: Tribute to < 19" front wheels...
« Reply #49 on: January 01, 2013, 10:18:29 pm »
The angle I was trying to take was that a couple of months ago Gideon Joubert loaned me a Dr650 for a tip up the west coat (Hondeklipbaai , Alexander Bay, Pela etc) which has shit load of deep soft sand , especially in summer and on previous rides up there on my 990 I battled the bike and crashed more times than I care to remember. On the DR it was a doddle, easy seated riding without an incident , almost like cheating. On top of that the final couple of hundred KMs home on the tar were not that bad either. I know for a fact that a GS650 with me riding it would have been hell. So my advise to the less experiencd riders and ladies  (generally less physically strong than the guys) not to fall into the BM or nothing mould and try a lighter easier to ride option.

I agree with you.  

Its not a brand thing.

Nor is it about the size of the front wheel only.

IMO its about choosing the right bike for what you want to do.

Its actually quite simple.

Small and light = nice off road experience, its MUCH MUCH easier, and far more enjoyable and probably safer in difficult terrain....but you accept a compromise for long distance road touring.

Large and powerful = great way of eating distance on tar at speed in comfort as well as carrying bigger loads.......but needs a lot more care and effort when going properly off road and you will probably fall more (although some gifted people can make it look easy).

Your choice!

Its your money, your life etc.


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Offline eberhard

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Re: Tribute to < 19" front wheels...
« Reply #50 on: January 01, 2013, 10:23:27 pm »


I agree with you. 

Its not a brand thing.

Nor is it about the size of the front wheel only.

IMO its about choosing the right bike for what you want to do.

Its actually quite simple.

Small and light = nice off road experience, its MUCH MUCH easier, and far more enjoyable and probably safer in difficult terrain....but you accept a compromise for long distance road touring.

Large and powerful = great way of eating distance on tar at speed in comfort as well as carrying bigger loads.......but needs a lot more care and effort when going properly off road and you will probably fall more (although some gifted people can make it look easy).

Your choice!

Its your money, your life etc.

 :thumleft:
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Offline Sparky

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Re: Tribute to < 19" front wheels...
« Reply #51 on: January 02, 2013, 08:48:01 am »
Kan nie sien hoe 'n 21" 'n verskil gaan maak in sand nie. Bergagtige terrein, ja. Maar nie noodsaaklik nie.

Daar is baie faktore wat 'n bike se hantering beinvloed. Die wiel grootte is maar net een.

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Re: Tribute to < 21" front wheels...
« Reply #52 on: January 02, 2013, 08:59:19 am »
 :imaposer: I was man down yesterday and did not even read the thread after I started it till now.

Thanks for the contributions, serious and otherwise, I was actually taking the piss and this thread should be in the comedy section  :thumleft:

But, while we are on the subject...

I started riding on a bike with a 19" front  :o I know, but that was before I even knew about WD's and about < 21" front wheels being deadly off tar.
Thank goodness I am alive to be able to post about it.

Now I need to go and find all those CoG discussions, I am still not convinced...

Just to be serious for a minute though, I do get the 21" wheel is better in sand thing, I do ride bikes with different wheel sizes so I have a fair idea, but to just jump in the moment someone has an off telling the person he/she was on the wrong bike is just mean IMHO.
After all, a lot of us cannot afford a plastic, a touring bike, a commuter and another bike for every single type of terrain out there, so we make do with what we have, like so many people have done quite successfully in the past, with tools which are probably totally inappropriate for the task at hand.

It is simple really, take whatever you have and go and have fun, or listen to the "you are on the wrong bike" or "you are not wearing ATGATT" or "put whatever else you want in here" police and rather stay at home - you choose  :thumleft:
 

Offline the_wes

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Re: Tribute to < 21" front wheels...
« Reply #53 on: January 02, 2013, 09:04:35 am »
After all, a lot of us cannot afford a plastic, a touring bike, a commuter and another bike for every single type of terrain out there, so we make do with what we have, like so many people have done quite successfully in the past, with tools which are probably totally inappropriate for the task at hand.

It is simple really, take whatever you have and go and have fun, or listen to the "you are on the wrong bike" or "you are not wearing ATGATT" or "put whatever else you want in here" police and rather stay at home - you choose  :thumleft:

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Offline Rooikat

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Re: Tribute to < 19" front wheels...
« Reply #54 on: January 02, 2013, 11:13:46 am »
I think the rake and trail of a bike might make an even bigger difference in sand than the difference between 19" & 21". :peepwall:

I found that the BMW Funduro (21") handled infinitely better than the Xcountry (19") on gravel, but, as stated above, there are many other factors at play. There was something radically wrong with the Xcountry's front wheel geometry.

(My XL500 is very much superior to the other two on dirt (23"), but again...............)
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Offline Adventurer

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Re: Tribute to < 21" front wheels...
« Reply #55 on: January 02, 2013, 11:45:08 am »
Many years ago when myself and my wife got into DS riding, we both rode with 19" front wheels, GS 650 and an 1100GS, we did quite a bit of Namibia, Botswana, Mozambique, and quite a lot of SA, migrated to a GS 1200 (wife) and me to an 1150 GSA, while they might not have been ideal, all these bikes did the job, we had a few big eye moments here and there, but nothing spectacular. My wife's big crash 5 years ago had nothing to do with her 19" front wheel. I migrated to a KTM 990 after that, and must say, the 21" front wheel does make a difference on dirt, no doubt, but the 19" front wheel bikes we both rode did the job. Any road can be done on any bike, it just depends on the effort and skill required, I know the new 650 GS twin is not ideal on dirt, but ridden sensibly it will do the job, but, shit can always happen, it is the nature of the game, learn from a bad experience and move on....In retrospect I know the 650GS single is a big handful on dirt, but in it's day it was the best option available for the task required, my wife did about 50 000km on her GS650, not one major incident. But she always rode within her means and ability.
Thankfully these days there are a lot more options available......19" and 21" front wheels....
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Offline ChrisL - DUSTRIDERS

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Re: Tribute to < 19" front wheels...
« Reply #56 on: January 02, 2013, 11:52:40 am »
I think the rake and trail of a bike might make an even bigger difference in sand than the difference between 19" & 21". :peepwall:

I found that the BMW Funduro (21") handled infinitely better than the Xcountry (19") on gravel, but, as stated above, there are many other factors at play. There was something radically wrong with the Xcountry's front wheel geometry.

(My XL500 is very much superior to the other two on dirt (23"), but again...............)
Rooikat the Funduro also has a 19" frontwheel but I just think the XCountry would handle better as it weighs less.
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Offline ClimbingTurtle

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Re: Tribute to < 19" front wheels...
« Reply #57 on: January 02, 2013, 11:52:48 am »
Quote
alanB you dislike the marketing of BMW of the Dakar, so the 21" wheel did not do it for you in dirt, fine but why blame marketing for your poor decision, nobody forced you to buy the bike, I have done many K@k decisions in my life as well if you get sucked up into the marketing hype you will/can burn your Arse?

Nice!  We're back on track (no pun).

Ja the DaKar had 21" front - it handled Ok on smooth gravel, - but virtually any bike will I think.  But it was a real hand full in anything slightly technical - much more than a 650 ever should be - the heavy weight and puny shocks were the major problem - but thats just my opinion again.

You are right  I should have known better when buying the bike - but the glossy magazines and the whole BMW "spell" sucked me in.

Wont be fooled again though!


And for my 15c worth, I agree with AlanB to a point.

I have ridden the Dakar off-road and found it to be under-powered for the weight, and the weight to be "top-heavy" in marginally technical stuff. But for me, the very worst aspect of it was the narrow bars - it gave me no feeling of control on the bike, 21" front wheel or not. The bike was not mine, but I had it for 6 months and in the end chose not to buy it.

I have, however, ridden many 1000's of km off-road with my GSA with a 19" front wheel and loved every minute of it! The power to weight ratio is better, the bike handles better and based on that, I think that the 2" lack on the front wheel is made up in other areas that are better!

Perhaps a fair comparison would be to load a 21" front wheel on the GSA and see how different it actually is then? Maybe there are other areas that are being put down to the wheel size that need to be considered too?

I am inspired to start another project.... perhaps a 21" front wheel......?
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Offline Buddy

Re: Tribute to < 21" front wheels...
« Reply #58 on: January 02, 2013, 02:10:33 pm »
I've got an XR650L which has a 21" front wheel, and I find it better in the dirt than my previous bike with a 19"front wheel.  :P
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Offline Rooikat

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Re: Tribute to < 21" front wheels...
« Reply #59 on: January 02, 2013, 02:13:26 pm »
Sorry, Chris! My mistake. Both  BMs had 19".
I forgot to mention that the KLE500 (21") I had, handled better on gravel than either BMW. KLE and Funduro both weighed 180 kg, the Xcountry 150 kg, but it was still a pig in the rough stuff (sand + corrugations especially). I am sure that the front end geometry of the Xcount was to blame.

Of course, if you really put your mind to it, almost any bike will do the job.
My CB350 in Mozambique, 1974. (18" wheels, though. although ground clearance was a bit of a problem!).
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