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Offline bonova

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Re: Tribute to < 21" front wheels...
« Reply #60 on: January 02, 2013, 03:47:45 pm »
i have a question.... has anyone measured (with a tape measure) the diameter of the 21 and 19 in tyres of the same make? cause when i look at the 1200 front next to my 21 in front - they look mighty almost as close as a ball hair to the same (cause the rim is different, but so is the tyre.... and the profile is higher)
There is quite a diff in the width tho.... is this not one of the issues?
legit question
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Offline 2StrokeDan

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Re: Tribute to < 21" front wheels...
« Reply #61 on: January 02, 2013, 05:29:06 pm »
He who ventures off the tar on a 19" wheel, is as reckless as the rider taking to the road without his PortaPotti.
 

Offline Stofdonkie

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Re: Tribute to < 21" front wheels...
« Reply #62 on: January 02, 2013, 06:25:24 pm »
i have a question.... has anyone measured (with a tape measure) the diameter of the 21 and 19 in tyres of the same make? cause when i look at the 1200 front next to my 21 in front - they look mighty almost as close as a ball hair to the same (cause the rim is different, but so is the tyre.... and the profile is higher)
There is quite a diff in the width tho.... is this not one of the issues?
legit question

Jip. Very little difference. But keep it quiet. This sort of discussion can't handle facts very well.  :biggrin:


BTW - rake and trail is FAR more important than rim diameter. That's why a plastic with motard wheels still perform on the loose stuff. And a GS with a 21" front remains a pig.
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Offline Jacko

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Re: Tribute to < 21" front wheels...
« Reply #63 on: January 02, 2013, 06:29:58 pm »
My personal opinion is that one should first start off with small wheels. Say 14 inch. Then you slowly work your way up to 16, 17, 18 and 19 inch wheels.

Only then may you graduate to 21 inch wheels.
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Offline Rooikat

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Re: Tribute to < 21" front wheels...
« Reply #64 on: January 02, 2013, 06:33:30 pm »
My personal opinion is that one should first start off with small wheels. Say 14 inch. Then you slowly work your way up to 16, 17, 18 and 19 inch wheels.

Only then may you graduate to 21 inch wheels.

I must be very, very experienced - XL has 23" front wheel! :imaposer:
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Offline 2StrokeDan

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Re: Tribute to < 21" front wheels...
« Reply #65 on: January 02, 2013, 08:36:57 pm »
Penny Farthing must be incredible offroad!!
 

Offline Stofdonkie

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Re: Tribute to < 21" front wheels...
« Reply #66 on: January 02, 2013, 10:06:44 pm »
My personal opinion is that one should first start off with small wheels. Say 14 inch. Then you slowly work your way up to 16, 17, 18 and 19 inch wheels.

Only then may you graduate to 21 inch wheels.

Maar, as die 21" soveel beter/makliker is ... moet dit nie andersom wees nie? Is dit nie 'n tipe 'training wheel' nie?  ;D

Of miskien, soos mens ouer en meer useless raak het jy beter equipment nodig. Ons jong laaities met die plat pensies en die dik bosse hare kan nog gemaklik met die 19" werk.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2013, 10:16:17 pm by Stofdonkie »
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Offline 2StrokeDan

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Re: Tribute to < 21" front wheels...
« Reply #67 on: January 02, 2013, 10:23:17 pm »
My XT600 has a 17" rear rim. My KX has a 19" rear rim. I think I have found the reason for the KX being so much better offroad than the XT. Thanks guys.
 

Offline ButchH

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Re: Tribute to < 21" front wheels...
« Reply #68 on: January 02, 2013, 10:30:59 pm »
My XT600 has a 17" rear rim. My KX has a 19" rear rim. I think I have found the reason for the KX being so much better offroad than the XT. Thanks guys.



Ok that’s going to confuse the whole issue now   :deal:   ( Welcome back btw) :thumleft:
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Offline CharlesS

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Re: Tribute to < 21" front wheels...
« Reply #69 on: January 02, 2013, 10:31:59 pm »
This debate appear to be conducted in absolute terms. An 19 inch front wheel is absolutely crap on dirt and an 21 inch wheel is absolutely perfect on dirt. Rooikat posted that he used an 18 inch wheel on dirt in 1974, and from the photo's it appeared that he coped. Will he have coped better with an 19 inch wheel? Maybe. Will he coped better with an 21 inch wheel? Also maybe. Did he enjoy the trip less? Again looking at the pictures, I doubt it. What I am trying to say is, that in the end, you make do with what you have. It is about the ride, and the rider, the equipment enhance it, but in my view does not make or break it.

Pretty much what Garfield said I suppose?
 

Offline Rough Rider

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Re: Tribute to < 21" front wheels...
« Reply #70 on: January 02, 2013, 11:32:15 pm »
My XT600 has a 17" rear rim. My KX has a 19" rear rim. I think I have found the reason for the KX being so much better offroad than the XT. Thanks guys.

We can start a whole new debate here  >:D Surly an 18" rim on the rear of you KX is better that a 19" rim unless you like getting a klomp flats in the gnarly stuff  :peepwall:
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Offline Jacko

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Re: Tribute to < 21" front wheels...
« Reply #71 on: January 02, 2013, 11:56:50 pm »
My personal opinion is that one should first start off with small wheels. Say 14 inch. Then you slowly work your way up to 16, 17, 18 and 19 inch wheels.

Only then may you graduate to 21 inch wheels.

I must be very, very experienced - XL has 23" front wheel! :imaposer:

I salute you, you brave dirt God! 21 inch my ass,pffft!
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Offline BlueBull2007

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Re: Tribute to < 21" front wheels...
« Reply #72 on: January 03, 2013, 01:01:29 am »
 :lol8:
My personal opinion is that one should first start off with small wheels. Say 14 inch. Then you slowly work your way up to 16, 17, 18 and 19 inch wheels.

Only then may you graduate to 21 inch wheels.

 :lol8: :laughing4:
Jacko: Sometimes your comments are absolutely priceless.

When I 1st saw this fred I also had a little chuckle - Thanks GF.  :biggrin:  I think there are two issues here:

Issue 1 Tyre Size  

Im not a great rider but I have ridden my wifes 650GS and my 800GS fitted with TKC's at about 1.4 bar and found the 800 is marginally easier at slower speeds , when the wheel tends sink/dig in a little bit more into holes and dimples in the sand which can easily become the prelude to an over-the-bars experience for me. The weight of both bikes play a far bigger role in this though. Thats why a 2 stroke 80 with tiny wheels can also ride great in the sand with a kid on it.

At high speeds I dont think it makes much difference at all on sand roads. unless you are jumping dunes, or going down steep dunes like these excellent, expert examples do in the video below. I cant imagine myself having enough confidence to take a big bike down something like this on a 19 inch rim.

Check out 1:21 for an insane jump.
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/CWzPSh-yYJ8/" target="_blank" class="new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/CWzPSh-yYJ8/</a>

I think only a few Wilddogs would venture into this kind of terrain on big bikes anyway, so its a moot point for the
average Joe.

Issue 2:  Perception is everything on the net and on the internet the way you want to say something can easily be misunderstood. There is no human interaction to counteract anything so its hard to be "gruff" :angry3: or sensitive  :3some: unless you type it. Most of us are pretty poor communicators and even worse readers in these forums, and that's why silly emoticons are useful to improve the perception you would like people to have about what you have TYPED (vs. what you think you typed). Advice given in a sensitive thread about some poor woman who crashed in a brash way will never be well recieved. I guess some of us just dont get that...  ::)

The same thing with avatars, nicknames and signatures to an extent. Unless the nick is something neutral like "Rickus" you are creating a perception that you could be judged upon before you type the first word. I know that my nick Bluebull2007 sets me up for potential disdain by die-hard Western Province supporters -  for example. Province supporters may ( and do :evil6: >:D) actually view my posts and comments in a critical way even though I dont really care who wins or loses in the currie cup. Im okay with that, although I have considered just becoming BB2007 for this reason.

Im sure there must be a fantasically amusing reason why you decided to call yourself Badseed, but with a nick like that my 1st perception has been "troublemaker", and Im sure one or two others do too. Add to that an avatar of a Dog taking a dump, then I personally percieve someone not to be taken too seriously. Others may be disgusted, I dont know. However when I read your comment in the other thread I perceieved a dog taking a dump on another dog in a negative way from the nickname (preconception plus a extremly tactless series of remarks under the disguised as advice) I see someone being a total  :knob: whether I agree with your point or not. Point lost, ego correction from the rest of the dogs, game over.  

I find its way less presumptious to be anecdotal when recounting my experiences and even then sometimes I think people percieve me to be a presumptuous prat as well anyway. Anyway use it- dont use it, just my opinion.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2013, 01:35:16 am by BlueBull2007 »
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Offline alanB

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Re: Tribute to < 21" front wheels...
« Reply #73 on: January 03, 2013, 07:04:25 am »
Nice post Neil :thumleft:

Some interesting points about perception on the internet. 

I think someone could do a PhD on the social issues associated with the way people try and project their self images via the choice of nicknames and avatars on the internet 
There are few characters here which would yield reams of analysis!
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Offline Odd Dog

Re: Tribute to < 21" front wheels...
« Reply #74 on: January 03, 2013, 08:08:35 am »
My personal opinion is that one should first start off with small wheels. Say 14 inch. Then you slowly work your way up to 16, 17, 18 and 19 inch wheels.

Only then may you graduate to 21 inch wheels.

I must be very, very experienced - XL has 23" front wheel! :imaposer:

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Offline Trailrider

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Re: Tribute to < 21" front wheels...
« Reply #75 on: January 03, 2013, 06:16:46 pm »

BTW - rake and trail is FAR more important than rim diameter. That's why a plastic with motard wheels still perform on the loose stuff. And a GS with a 21" front remains a pig.


I also posted about the rake and trail earlier. Few seem to even know what it's about. ;)
 

Offline BlueBull2007

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Re: Tribute to < 21" front wheels...
« Reply #76 on: January 03, 2013, 07:28:12 pm »

BTW - rake and trail is FAR more important than rim diameter. That's why a plastic with motard wheels still perform on the loose stuff. And a GS with a 21" front remains a pig.


I also posted about the rake and trail earlier. Few seem to even know what it's about. ;)

Could you explan that for me please? I was going to ask in my earlier comment, but forgot. I dont have a cooking clue :dontknow:
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Offline 2StrokeDan

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Re: Tribute to < 21" front wheels...
« Reply #77 on: January 03, 2013, 07:41:09 pm »
Google "rake and trail". Very easy to read drawings. Highly misunderstood part of biking.
 

Offline Odd Dog

Re: Tribute to < 21" front wheels...
« Reply #78 on: January 03, 2013, 07:44:21 pm »
Quick exp. compare chopper fork angle/wheel distance between front & back against an MX bike.
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Offline Aprilian

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Re: Tribute to < 21" front wheels...
« Reply #79 on: January 03, 2013, 07:58:49 pm »
Compared 21 and 19 inch wheels for 1200 GS- side to side there is a significant difference. Bear in mind that the larger wheel raises the front axle and thereby changes the rake angle aswell. I dont think there is any question that the larger wheel on the same bike makes for a better offroad ride. Having said that its not of life altering proportions! But then neither are many of the other things we do to our bikes eg removing catalyst, 2 finger levers, wider and pivot footpegs etc etc not that it has ever stopped me from doing all of the above!
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