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Offline Torque Curve

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DRZ462: Living with it
« on: January 13, 2013, 08:17:53 pm »
Background
My bike seized the inlet camshaft in August 2012 and I decided to rebuild the motor to 462cc. This job was documented here:

http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=105665.0

New parts included the following:
+4mm Cylinder Works barrel with Vortex forged piston
+4mm Hot Rods crank shaft and con-rod
Hot Rods side bearings
Wiseco stainless inlet and exhaust valves
Kibblewhite valve stem seals
All bearings and seals
Used parts:
Head from 2001 DRZ400E with inlet and exhaust camshafts. The valve seats and -guides, cam journals and bearings were all meticulously measured and found to be as good as new so I installed the head with confidence. Thanks again to Kenzogs for this fantastic gift!

I decided to do such an extensive rebuild due to the volume of metal particles I found in the motor and oil screen. To get rid of any contaminated parts I decided to replace all bearings and seals. The +4mm stroker crank was a nice-to-have as the original crank measured up fine.

Running in:
The bike literally started with the first touch of the button. The first 100km was covered on back roads where I could do some runs up to 2/3-throttle and a quick off-road ride had to be squeezed in at the end of that day. I drained the oil and cut open the filter because I was curious to see how much wear occurs during engine run-in. I replaced the oil with Castrol Magnatec 10w40 and installed a new filter. The oil screen was also removed and found to be clean. The extra power of the 462cc motor was obviously very noticable, but I decided to wait for the motor to loosen up before I started comparisons with a std engine.

The next 200km was spent trail riding mostly single track and a few short sandy stretches. I replaced the oil and filter again and found as much metal dust as at the first 100km oil change. During the first 300km's I kept below 100km/h and avoided wide open throttle.

The next 400km again involved mostly trail riding, but I upped the pace a bit to the point that the worn tyres on the bike started annoying me. So at 700km into the new motor I replaced the oil and filter again and found less metal dust than after the 100- and 200km changes put together. I prefer trail ride run-ins due to throttle positions that vary all the time so those rings are forced onto the sleeve better than on a long low-load road ride. I think a trail ride with frequents stops and wrong turns as one does allows more cooling off time for new tight motor.

The final stage of what I consider run-in mileage was a 550-odd km trip: PE, Elands, Baviaans, Willowmore, Steytlerville, Grootrivierpoort, PE. The 86km cement road from Willowmore to Steytlerville was done at 115km/h with a few bursts up to 130km/h.
The average fuel consumption for this trip was 17km/l which is = to what I got on my first DRZ400 when I did the same ride some 2 years ago. Oil and coolant gets checked and air filter gets washed and oiled at the end of each day's riding.

Performance:
I'm comparing this DRZ462 to how it behaved as a std 400cc and to my previous DRZ which I bought new and rode for 7500km. All bikes run 14/47 sprockets and 130/80-18 rear tyres.
DRZ's are known for their even power delivery throughout the rev range and their ability to pull comfortably from low down even in 5th gear. The increased capacity adds more power this motor, but the extra 4mm stroke of the crank makes the motor even stronger low down. My std DRZ's could power wheelie in 2nd and with a lot of encouragement I could do in 3rd, but not with consistant enough results to make it worth while. The 462-motor will lift the front in 3rd gear regardless of where the revs are and in fourth gear riding near  the powerband the frontalso  lifts strongly - all of this without the clutch!
There's a short stretch of road where my riding buddies and I often had a last dice on our way home from the trails. We pull off at a traffic light and barely reach 130km/h before having to brake hard to make the turn into my street. (Sorry officer). The 462 ran up to 140 well ahead of the turn-off so that I had more than enough time to reduce speed for the turn. For normal riding around town the 462 feels like 400, except that everything happens easier and the 462 gets the same job done with far less revving of the motor.

To follow: Carb set-up, balancer shaft, exhaust, gearing off-road, sprocket change etc.


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Offline MildDog

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Re: DRZ462: Living with it
« Reply #1 on: January 13, 2013, 09:34:47 pm »
I did intake cam and 434 piston, it made a massive difference. A 462 must be wild  >:D Love it.
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Offline Torque Curve

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Re: DRZ462: Living with it
« Reply #2 on: January 13, 2013, 09:40:59 pm »
Carb set-up:

When I first got this bike it had a 165 main jet which was way too rich for the up-country altitude where it came from. This explained the thick black soot in the exhaust. The bike's new home here at the coast was more suited to the huge main jet, but there was still a slight sputter at wide open throttle and the choke was never required to start even on cold mornings. The fueling was fine from 0 to 1/4-throttle as well as mid-throttle. This bike had the rubber breather at the top of the air box in place when I got it. I thought it strange as my 2010 DRZ-E did not have it when I bought it new. I removed this rubber (TT and ADVriders refer to this as the 3x3 mod) but on the DRZ-E's air box this rubber just pulls out of an existing 3x3 hole. The worst of the richness was gone then and I intended sorting the jetting out properly when I was on holiday. When the head came off after the seize-up I also found the exhaust ports covered with over 1mm thick carbon.
When I first started the 462 I was surprised at how it idled exactly like before - without any choke-start. I only started taking note of the fueling after the first 200km of run-in when I was doing some familiar slow rocky trails. The bike surged when ridden at less than 1/4 throttle and stalled over obsticles that I have ridden over many times before with the 400. Some internet searching pointed at the needle being too rich. I dropped the needle by one position and that sorted the surging. Needle now on 2nd clip.
I also noticed that the 462 sputters at WOT as soon as the air filter gets half dirty. This told me that the 165 main jet was still too rich despite the 64cc increase in capacity. The final clue I got from pro motard engine builders' comments on SM forums that 462's will never run well on exhausts fitted with quiet cores (that's baffles to you and me). I was reluctant to remove what is called the spark arrestor from the DRZ not just because it made the bike too loud for my liking, but the exhaust note was at an annoying pitch. The 462 motor sounds deeper than the std 400 and removing the spark arrestor uncovered a deep thumping exhaust tone that although loud was not at all intrusive. When the throttle is blipped off idle now the 462 revs nearly as quickly as most current 450's with competition pipes, but not as loud. The reason for the quicker revs will follow soon.
 I think the fueling is now very good and will probably be spot-on with a 160 main jet and my uncorked OEM exhaust. A FMF or Yoshi pipe would be great, but I've got the fueling so close to perfect now that I'll hate to make it worse by spending a lot of cash on an expensive end-can.  
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Offline Torque Curve

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Re: DRZ462: Living with it
« Reply #3 on: January 13, 2013, 09:49:20 pm »
I did intake cam and 434 piston, it made a massive difference. A 462 must be wild  >:D Love it.

It seems wild at first, especially on tar. But I'm trying to save the nice set of Maxxis Cross IT tyres so I go slowly on my way to the dirt. That stroker crank adds loads of torque. Bike now hooks up on terrain where the 400 used to spin so I'm popping wheelies off-road in 4th and get the front up to clear ruts going at 100km/h in 5th. :lol8: :lol8: :lol8:
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Offline DR BIG 750

Re: DRZ462: Living with it
« Reply #4 on: January 14, 2013, 06:52:09 am »
what are the costs and who the agents would like to check it out
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Offline sidetrack

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Re: DRZ462: Living with it
« Reply #5 on: January 14, 2013, 11:28:40 am »
Nice write up, I went up to 440cc with an Athena kit and inlet Hotcam. I also noticed extra torque at lower revs. Post some ride reports  :thumleft:
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Offline N[]vA

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Re: DRZ462: Living with it
« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2013, 11:45:45 am »
That must be a beast of a bike now, having a flipping blast with my DRZ424 (intake hotcam and +4mm stroker with stock piston size)
So much of win it hurts! ^.^


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Offline Torque Curve

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Re: DRZ462: Living with it
« Reply #7 on: January 14, 2013, 03:11:58 pm »
what are the costs and who the agents would like to check it out

Most parts were ordered over E-Bay from XCBOB, ATVunlimited, Apex Racing.
I'll have to check the invoices, because quit counting when costs passed R12000
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Offline mtbbiker

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Re: DRZ462: Living with it
« Reply #8 on: January 14, 2013, 03:59:53 pm »
Do you expect a shorter life on the motor, when i did my motor at 65K (3K ago ;D) I was asking my mechanic of rebuilding with a big bore kit and he advised me NOT too - engine life will be shorter. But I am still thinking of a big bore kit :)
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Offline Torque Curve

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Re: DRZ462: Living with it
« Reply #9 on: January 14, 2013, 04:06:43 pm »
Balancer shaft lightening:
The DRZ motor has a gear-driven counter-balancer shaft that works very well in minimizing engine vibration. It also works with the weight of the fly wheel to make the engine less susceptible to stalling. A motor without the weight of a counter-balancer and with a lightened fly wheel will rev much quicker, but will stall more easily at low revs.
I read posts of DRZ riders who have removed their balancer shafts entirely and their results were confirmed by tuners of motors from other manufactures that also use the same engine configuration. They say that there is vibration in the bottom half of the rev range only and that the performance improvements make living with it worth while.
I was not comfortable with removing the shaft entirely because I prefer as smooth a ride as possible. I calculated the volume of the balancer shaft lobe and the centrifugal force that it applies and then decided to reduce the centrifugal force by 50%. This reduction was easily achieved by removing material on a centre lathe.
The result of this mod is definitely quicker throttle response and I think it might cancel out some of the extra 26grams that the Vortex piston carries over the std item. I have no noticable vibration on the grips, but the clutch lever vibrates more excesively than before. A little vibration can be felt on the foot pegs, but this got worse when I replaced T63's with Maxxis Cross IT tyres so I'm attributing most of it to the tyres. The vibes are of no consequence when riding off road and this is where i spend most of my riding time anyways.
All in all I'm happy with the mod. For the little bit of material I removed from the balancer lobe I can certainly feel the difference in throttle response for very little gain in vibration.
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Offline Torque Curve

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Re: DRZ462: Living with it
« Reply #10 on: January 14, 2013, 04:24:45 pm »
Do you expect a shorter life on the motor, when i did my motor at 65K (3K ago ;D) I was asking my mechanic of rebuilding with a big bore kit and he advised me NOT too - engine life will be shorter. But I am still thinking of a big bore kit :)
Go check out Yoshimura's DRZ SM website.
http://www.yoshimura-rd.com/t-engine_services_drz400.aspx?imsec=services
They have dedicated yoshi parts to build a 450cc DRZ motor, and most importantly because they designed and developed the DRZ400 for Suzuki.
Stealth offers a 522cc kit: http://www.maxrpms.net/shop/index.php/motorcycle-kits/mk-suzuki/drz400/drz522-stealth.html

The manufacturers of these big bore parts often supply the OEM parts too and they produce their racing parts to higher standards than what is required for OEM. Vortex makes the pistons for KTM, surely their forged +4mm part is good enough for a Suzuki?
I trust that if the job is done right and service intervals are kept to, then a big bore motor is as reliable as a std one. 1000's of people are using these parts for just about any type of dirt bike on the market.
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Offline LouisXander

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Re: DRZ462: Living with it
« Reply #11 on: January 15, 2013, 01:20:22 pm »
Lekker Hannes! Elke keer as ek lees van jou DRz juk my gat 2 keer so erg!!

Wat het jy met die std exhaust gedoen?

Die een wat ek na kyk het nog die std exhaust op, maar die jets is gedoen sonder die 3x3 mod. Wat stel jy voor? Wat sal goeie size jets wees hier in JHB?
« Last Edit: January 15, 2013, 01:25:46 pm by LouisXander »
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Offline mtbbiker

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Re: DRZ462: Living with it
« Reply #12 on: January 15, 2013, 01:57:31 pm »
Do you expect a shorter life on the motor, when i did my motor at 65K (3K ago ;D) I was asking my mechanic of rebuilding with a big bore kit and he advised me NOT too - engine life will be shorter. But I am still thinking of a big bore kit :)
Go check out Yoshimura's DRZ SM website.
http://www.yoshimura-rd.com/t-engine_services_drz400.aspx?imsec=services
They have dedicated yoshi parts to build a 450cc DRZ motor, and most importantly because they designed and developed the DRZ400 for Suzuki.
Stealth offers a 522cc kit: http://www.maxrpms.net/shop/index.php/motorcycle-kits/mk-suzuki/drz400/drz522-stealth.html

The manufacturers of these big bore parts often supply the OEM parts too and they produce their racing parts to higher standards than what is required for OEM. Vortex makes the pistons for KTM, surely their forged +4mm part is good enough for a Suzuki?
I trust that if the job is done right and service intervals are kept to, then a big bore motor is as reliable as a std one. 1000's of people are using these parts for just about any type of dirt bike on the market.

I think it is safe to say you are now officially the DRZ Guru on this forum  :thumleft: :thumleft: :thumleft:
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Offline Torque Curve

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Re: DRZ462: Living with it
« Reply #13 on: January 15, 2013, 07:35:54 pm »
Lekker Hannes! Elke keer as ek lees van jou DRz juk my gat 2 keer so erg!!

Wat het jy met die std exhaust gedoen?

Die een wat ek na kyk het nog die std exhaust op, maar die jets is gedoen sonder die 3x3 mod. Wat stel jy voor? Wat sal goeie size jets wees hier in JHB?
Ryers in Amerika en Australie publiseer hul carb specs en hoogte bo seespieel op hul forums, jy kan dalk daar iets kry wat JHB pas. My raaiskoot is dat meeste bikes in JHB ryk loop uit die winkel uit agv van die hoogte.
Ek gebruik nog die std pyp, maar die spark arrestor is uitgehaal. Soos in 'n vorige post genoem, die 3x3 mod is nie altyd nodig nie, want sommige bikes kom sonder die rubber inlaatpyp bo-op die airbox. Goeie jetting is die wat 'n bike glad laat loop deur al drie hoof fases van vergasser aksie. 0 tot 1/4: Pilot circuit, 1/8 tot 3/4: Needle circuit, WOT: Main jet. 

Gaan lees hier: http://www.thumperfaq.com/jetting.htm  Kyk na die correction factor formule op die site. Ek stel sulke formules sommer op in excel dan voer ek net die veranderlikes in. Roep as jy ooit daai carb begin afhaal, daar's truuks om dit makliker te maak.
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Offline Torque Curve

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Re: DRZ462: Living with it
« Reply #14 on: January 15, 2013, 07:42:05 pm »
Do you expect a shorter life on the motor, when i did my motor at 65K (3K ago ;D) I was asking my mechanic of rebuilding with a big bore kit and he advised me NOT too - engine life will be shorter. But I am still thinking of a big bore kit :)
Go check out Yoshimura's DRZ SM website.
http://www.yoshimura-rd.com/t-engine_services_drz400.aspx?imsec=services
They have dedicated yoshi parts to build a 450cc DRZ motor, and most importantly because they designed and developed the DRZ400 for Suzuki.
Stealth offers a 522cc kit: http://www.maxrpms.net/shop/index.php/motorcycle-kits/mk-suzuki/drz400/drz522-stealth.html

The manufacturers of these big bore parts often supply the OEM parts too and they produce their racing parts to higher standards than what is required for OEM. Vortex makes the pistons for KTM, surely their forged +4mm part is good enough for a Suzuki?
I trust that if the job is done right and service intervals are kept to, then a big bore motor is as reliable as a std one. 1000's of people are using these parts for just about any type of dirt bike on the market.

I think it is safe to say you are now officially the DRZ Guru on this forum  :thumleft: :thumleft: :thumleft:

Nee, man ek sif maar net deur al die stront wat ouens praat op verskeie forums en maak dan sin van dit wat herhaaldelik opduik. Ek wil eerder weet hoe kry mens 68000km gery op 'n DRZ?
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Offline buzzlightyear

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Re: DRZ462: Living with it
« Reply #15 on: January 15, 2013, 07:55:43 pm »
Do you expect a shorter life on the motor, when i did my motor at 65K (3K ago ;D) I was asking my mechanic of rebuilding with a big bore kit and he advised me NOT too - engine life will be shorter. But I am still thinking of a big bore kit :)
Go check out Yoshimura's DRZ SM website.
http://www.yoshimura-rd.com/t-engine_services_drz400.aspx?imsec=services
They have dedicated yoshi parts to build a 450cc DRZ motor, and most importantly because they designed and developed the DRZ400 for Suzuki.
Stealth offers a 522cc kit: http://www.maxrpms.net/shop/index.php/motorcycle-kits/mk-suzuki/drz400/drz522-stealth.html

The manufacturers of these big bore parts often supply the OEM parts too and they produce their racing parts to higher standards than what is required for OEM. Vortex makes the pistons for KTM, surely their forged +4mm part is good enough for a Suzuki?
I trust that if the job is done right and service intervals are kept to, then a big bore motor is as reliable as a std one. 1000's of people are using these parts for just about any type of dirt bike on the market.

I think it is safe to say you are now officially the DRZ Guru on this forum  :thumleft: :thumleft: :thumleft:

 :thumleft:
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Offline Torque Curve

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Re: DRZ462: Living with it
« Reply #16 on: January 15, 2013, 08:05:01 pm »
While I worked on the motor and had to wait for parts to arrive, I serviced the front suspension and rear shock linkages. I didn't think then to have the shock itself checked out too. On this past Baviaans - Grootrivierpoort ride the handling got progressively worse to the point that the bike was bottoming out over the slightest woops. That rocky sections of the Grootrivierpoort was particularly unpleasant without a working shock. Back on the Elands road and Cape Road the rear wheel bounced as much as an inch off the ground after passing over uneven road surfaces!
I'm now stripping the rear shock out to send for a rebuild. Great, MORE money to spend  :angry4: .

« Last Edit: January 15, 2013, 08:05:38 pm by Torque Curve »
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Offline LouisXander

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Re: DRZ462: Living with it
« Reply #17 on: January 15, 2013, 08:24:33 pm »
Nee wat, jy moet hom maar hou, hy's nou splinternuut en net die 690 bykoop!!
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Offline mtbbiker

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Re: DRZ462: Living with it
« Reply #18 on: January 15, 2013, 09:32:50 pm »
Do you expect a shorter life on the motor, when i did my motor at 65K (3K ago ;D) I was asking my mechanic of rebuilding with a big bore kit and he advised me NOT too - engine life will be shorter. But I am still thinking of a big bore kit :)
Go check out Yoshimura's DRZ SM website.
http://www.yoshimura-rd.com/t-engine_services_drz400.aspx?imsec=services
They have dedicated yoshi parts to build a 450cc DRZ motor, and most importantly because they designed and developed the DRZ400 for Suzuki.
Stealth offers a 522cc kit: http://www.maxrpms.net/shop/index.php/motorcycle-kits/mk-suzuki/drz400/drz522-stealth.html

The manufacturers of these big bore parts often supply the OEM parts too and they produce their racing parts to higher standards than what is required for OEM. Vortex makes the pistons for KTM, surely their forged +4mm part is good enough for a Suzuki?
I trust that if the job is done right and service intervals are kept to, then a big bore motor is as reliable as a std one. 1000's of people are using these parts for just about any type of dirt bike on the market.

I think it is safe to say you are now officially the DRZ Guru on this forum  :thumleft: :thumleft: :thumleft:

Nee, man ek sif maar net deur al die stront wat ouens praat op verskeie forums en maak dan sin van dit wat herhaaldelik opduik. Ek wil eerder weet hoe kry mens 68000km gery op 'n DRZ?
69000km :biggrin:, Dis seker maar omdat ons nie sulke lekker rowwe plekke het om te ry soos julle ouens daar in die Oos Kaap nie. ::) Ons het 2011 daar by Cinsa (Oos Londen) gekamp - Ek gaan vir my sleepwa koop sodat ek verskoning het om die DRZ volgend keer saam te vat. Ek wil nog die "Wilde kus" daar van Oos Londen op ry deur ou Transkei
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Offline Heddles

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Re: DRZ462: Living with it
« Reply #19 on: January 19, 2013, 06:06:43 am »
Hallooooo Hannes... (",)

I am interested to know where the 68000 Km's fits in.. and why you think they wouldn't be able to reach that mileage.

I was speaking to an older guy in Cape Town the other day. He has got an XS 750. It's an old triple cylinder Yamaha. Must say, I didn't know that they existed, thought they were only made in 850. Had it since new. The bike has done 470 000 Km's and the motor has never been opened. I asked him about maintenance and he said that he has to admit that he wasn't totally religious but the bike did get relatively regular oil changes. After some of the mileages I have put on bikes myself, I am of the impression that a DRZ could do very high mileage without being opened.. I have no idea what mine has got on it but it is definitely over 10 000, closer to 20 and when I opened it, the inside was clean and free of any signes of damage and wear and when measured, it was way within standard spec..

I am very impressed with this thread and your thoroughness with this project. Your determination and dedication, coupled with the good result that you have achieved, are proof that this kind of rebuild CAN in fact be successful. Your research is good and workmanship is aligned with the best available.

Well done, brilliant job...