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Offline krazy-eyes

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KTM 950 ADVENTURE
« Reply #20 on: May 08, 2006, 04:01:28 pm »
my first service was R940 all inclusive.
 

Offline LuckyStriker

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KTM 950 ADVENTURE
« Reply #21 on: May 08, 2006, 04:17:14 pm »
I know you are already sold on the KTM but as point of comparison I would like to add my 20K service (major) cost as a point of comparison:

R957.78

Air filter replaced
Oil filter replaced
Seal ring
Engine Oil replaced
Gearbox Oil checked
Engine flushed and cleaned
Entire brake system bled and fluid replaced
Primary spark plugs replaced
Secondary spark plugs checked
Valve clearance checked
Battery charged
Fuel tank topped up !!!
Software update - systems diagnostic
Various other stuff checked (too many to mention)
3 hours labour

-

The first 1000 service was R607.36
The 10K service was R723.36 (This included removing my DIY plugs in the tyre and replacing them with mushroom plugs and wheel balancing)
 

Offline Grootseun

KTM 950 ADVENTURE
« Reply #22 on: May 08, 2006, 04:20:39 pm »
Seems the service in CT is a smidgen better than up here in GP
 

Offline chrisB

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« Reply #23 on: May 08, 2006, 04:32:29 pm »
Quote
I know you are already sold on the KTM...


I would say not sold already, it would take a lot to divert me from my GS aspirations :)  but I found the KATOOM a suprisingly lekka to ride... I know what the GS's are about when it comes to reliability and service from BMW I'am very impressed with the guy's at Auto Alpina in Boksburg, I doubt that any other dealer can beat that!
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shark_za

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KTM 950 ADVENTURE
« Reply #24 on: May 08, 2006, 04:47:40 pm »
Those 2004 Silver KTM's are particularly well priced right now, in 2004 they cost over R130k.

85k is a bargain.
 

Offline LuckyStriker

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KTM 950 ADVENTURE
« Reply #25 on: May 08, 2006, 04:53:40 pm »
Will he listen to the :twisted: on his left shoulder or the :angel7: on his right shoulder?
 

Offline Scribble

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KTM 950 ADVENTURE
« Reply #26 on: May 08, 2006, 04:59:38 pm »
i dont know why but i heard ktms need a service every 6000
also how much is a service for one of those beasties
i spose you could also find out what the things are that break and how difficult it is to fix them or how much they cost
also i must admit if i bought a ktm in 2004 for 100+
there is no way second hand value is evn an afterthought if you can get a 2004 bike new for 85 and so the trend would seem to continue
although not an issue if you ride it to death ,the bike i mean that sounds rather ominous 8)
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Offline tsiklonaut

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KTM 950 ADVENTURE
« Reply #27 on: May 08, 2006, 05:02:29 pm »
Quote from: "krazy-eyes"

besides, this bike was built solely with the paris-dakar in mind, and afterwards adapted for road use - that should count for something


Being huge fan of Dakar race myself i wish it was true, but unfortunately it's not. Seiously, the Dakar race is fully done with mechanics aside the track looking after the bikes. The KTM know-how and parts-availablity is unmatched to anything else on the race coz KTM has invested the most into this speciefic race and put together the only proper rallye bike package available for consumer user as well, 660 Rallye Replica namely. It's the whole $$$ market circulating around the race with the LC4s - you can get all the parts, mechanically-aknowledged work labour etc during the race just riding this bike (with much increased prices than done in "civilized" world of course). And that's why they're using it.

But there's fundametal differences between high mileage (overlanding) bike and a rally bike.

To talk about KTM high mileage reliablility, then simply forget it. Your money seems to be wasted if buying KTM for 100,000+ riding and communiting and if wanting to keep the bike for loooong time. Most of LC4s (the same long-developed engine Dakar Rally Replicas use btw) need top end overhaul around 30,000kms, the only exception i've seen is one fellow did 70,000kms on LC4 before top end overhaul taking very good care of the engine. While BM boxers have top end overhauls easily 300,000+kms, not rare to see reports with 500,000+kms on engine and there's still compression left on original pistion and rings setup! The KTM 950cc engine generates the same horsepower as 1200cc BMW, that really says something about (over)compression and the level of (over)stressing in the engine and drivetrain. The two bikes are fundamentally different staring from the engine's purpose as a heart of the bike. The LC8 is also the new ground for the KTM, that takes ironing-out time just like the LC4, but the principe is the same.


Don't get me wrong, for most of people the fun factor is larger on KTMs, due it's much more compressed, sportier and stressed engine than a lazy rotating "buzzing" boxer and KTM's are put on much more sportier frame with longer suspension travel and more solid shocks. KTM's "Ready to Race" slogan is true, obviously.  For more fun, get the KTM. For overlanding and long time keeping (lot of mile riding) get the BM. So you must ask yourself what you want from the bike! It all ends up with your individual need.

That's my vision about these two. People tend to compare them too much and too easily, but they are acctually fundamentally different bikes, not  comparable if they're pushed to their limits, which is direct racing or high mileage overlanding. One is soft big pig with 19" front you can't "race" (extreme fun), other is guaranteed brakedown.

Here's a good review about the bikes from UKGSer member "Twit!" i found:

It really depends on what you want the bike to do...

I rode a KTM 950 to Pakistan and back, and destroyed it. I'm not joking, it fell apart around me and when I got back I got shot of it asap before it cost a fortune to put right. Over the course of the trip it blew a head gasket, we lost the clutch via a slave cylinder, seized the rear brake, broke the exhaust, had continual problems with overheating. That was despite actually managing to maintain routine servicing and having a lot of extra surgery on route.

By comparison, the many BMWs we met on route, ranging from an R80 and taking in just about everything up to the 1200GS, just carried on regardless.

I think the KTM is a good bike, but it does need a lot of looking after and its highly strung; a BM is catagorically the better overland bike. I have decided there is a fundamental difference between a rally inspired bike, like the KTM and and a good overland bike. The rally bikes may win Dakar etc but they have a huge team of machanics keeping them going and replacing bits and bobs etc. A good overland bike just keeps going no matter what abuse is thrown at it.

Of course if it is just going to be used on tarmac either here or in Europe then all of the above is pretty irrelevant, just go for the one you like!!!!


I think that says it all... I'm sure you can find similar stuff BMW is not as good as a KTM on offroad etc etc. Two different worlds acctually, altough from the outside they look very similar.
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Offline krazy-eyes

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KTM 950 ADVENTURE
« Reply #28 on: May 08, 2006, 05:08:30 pm »
Quote from: "Scribble"
i dont know why but i heard ktms need a service every 6000


said with respect - it makes no difference what you "heard", the manual says 7500km.

i always say this to people when they get hung up on technicalities concerning which one to buy: BUY THE ONE YOU LIKE THE MOST! it's much of a muchness in terms of which one is really better
 

Offline krazy-eyes

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KTM 950 ADVENTURE
« Reply #29 on: May 08, 2006, 05:23:37 pm »
Quote from: "tsiklonaut"
I rode a KTM 950 to Pakistan and back, and destroyed it.


so he admits that it was he that destroyed it then?
blah
blah
blah
i could start a mudslinging war, but what would that achieve?

i doubt that guy is telling the whole story, i personally think that he stuffed it up himself, and then tried to blame the manufacturer/design, like my friend who f-ed up his landy (and every subsequent car he's owned (jeep, land cruiser)). some people are just like that.

this guy's been all over with his 950 and he doesnt seem to be as sour as the gs rider quoted by tsiklonaut:
 the whole of africa, asia, india etc. but see for yourself: http://www.josef-pichler.at/
 

Offline macduff

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KTM 950 ADVENTURE
« Reply #30 on: May 08, 2006, 07:17:21 pm »
Quote
this guy's been all over with his 950 and he doesnt seem to be as sour as the gs rider quoted by tsiklonaut:
the whole of africa, asia, india etc. but see for yourself: http://www.josef-pichler.at/


met this couple in stellenbosch, 40km from the end of their africa trip....
 

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« Reply #31 on: May 08, 2006, 07:36:50 pm »
I agree on the whole buy the "bike you want to" bit. At the end of the day it's about having fun not worrying how many miles are left to rebuild. The other day after the wwr trip I was wondering if I was on the right bike, my bike is small, cramped, top end of about 140 km/h etc. I was thinking what about a newish Tenere or maybe even a second hand Dakar etc. But the very next day I went out and rode some lekker singletrack and I loved my bike all over again. Best of all it only costs me R600 a month so I'll ride it untill it falls apart. I'll never get my money back if I sold it and I have invested many an hour making it "my bike" and I know it inside out. I say ride both and the one that gives you the most smiles per mile - buy it ! Some guys like BM's others KTM's some weirdo's even like taking enduro type bikes on long rides  :D
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Offline sidetrack

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« Reply #32 on: May 08, 2006, 08:10:29 pm »
Bikes cost a fraction of a car, but if you can't even afford a fraction there is a problem  :lol: I like Vespa's too, but I had to buy a clone as the real ones are ridiculous expensive  :?
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Offline krazy-eyes

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KTM 950 ADVENTURE
« Reply #34 on: May 08, 2006, 10:08:21 pm »
a brief history of how the lc8 came to be:
 
http://www.lc8.org/?q=node/view/12

for the record, the lc8 engine is not that highly stressed when compared to the 1200gs boxer.
they have a compression ratio of 11.5:1 and 11:1 respectivley, and the lc8 develops 98kw/95nm vs the boxers 72kw/115nm.

both have trade offs and the respective manufacturers went for oposites in terms of the power/torque combination

so,
do you want more power, or torque?
 

Offline LuckyStriker

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« Reply #35 on: May 09, 2006, 01:42:15 pm »
Here is some more info for you to digest:

Suspension travel

950 Adventure Black/Orange/S
210mm (front) / 210mm (rear)

R1200GS
190mm (front) / 200mm (rear)

R1200GS Adventure
210mm (front) / 220mm (rear)

Which suggests that the Katoom has a higher degree of suspension travel than the 1200GS but not as much as the 1200Adventure

And bla-bla, if you are reading this

R1150GS Adventure
210mm (front) / 220mm (rear)
Which means that the 1150 and the 1200 have the same suspension travel. I am also told by a certain dealer that the 1200Adventure is actually a few mm further off the ground than the 1150Adv
 

shark_za

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KTM 950 ADVENTURE
« Reply #36 on: May 09, 2006, 01:45:24 pm »
Suspension travel and clearance are two different things.
One is how far down it will go, the other is how far off the ground it starts.

Whats the figures for clearance on the 1200 vs 1150?
 

Offline LuckyStriker

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« Reply #37 on: May 09, 2006, 01:51:32 pm »
neither of the two manufacturers supply the clearance measurements


I mentioned clearance as a seperate issue for bla-bla's benefit. I don't know if the KTM has a higher clearance than the 1200Adv.
 

Offline tsiklonaut

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KTM 950 ADVENTURE
« Reply #38 on: May 09, 2006, 02:25:46 pm »
Noupe, the KTM 990 ADV S has a fair bit more suspension travel than the BMW GS ADV:

KTM 990 Adventure S -> front: 245mm rear: 245mm

KTM 990 Advneture non-S -> 210mm / 210mm, a bit less than GS ADV with more at the rear.

Ground clearance is very academical, no point what the spec says.

I.e. KTM specifies -> 990 ADV S and non-S both ground clearances (unloaded) 261mm

But you never know what the "unloaded" means. BMW is one of the most honest motorcycle companies about the weight specs. Others usually mean under "dry" weight - taken off tires, cooling liquids, no oils (+ brake oils), no fuel, even windscreen and seat taken off sometimes. Wet weight is cheated with minimum level of oil and coolants and some very lightweight high octane fuel etc etc.

I think that's why BMW and few others doesn't dare to give ground clearance specs - others cheat mostly. I'm glad BM have stayed true at least to the weight with German precision.

If you're a die-hard numer-follower, than the best way is to weight and measure all bikes your own, IMHO, fully fuled and oiled. Never trust the "relative" type of specs the manufaturers give. Because with all the extra equipment (ABS, grips etc) the specs also change even on BMs even if they're true to stock specs.

Ground clearance very much depends on preload adjustment on shocks - if it's on maximum or miniumum, there's "day/night" difference on ground clearance.

Also depends on the character of the shocks - i.e. BM telelever acts absolutely different than a regular front forks, on the road and off the road. Some other technical reasons as well, etc etc

Bottom line: those specs written on papers are bullshit w/o any description HOW is it measured and what magnitude the error can be.
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Offline krazy-eyes

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KTM 950 ADVENTURE
« Reply #39 on: May 09, 2006, 04:10:47 pm »
i can sit on it and get someone to measure the ground clearance if you wish  :lol:

but really, you can only compare ground clearance on different bikes if they have the same wheelbase. a short wheelbase effectively increases the groundclearance, and a long wheelbase will lower it when negotiating obstacles such as humps and boulders