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Offline the_BOBNOB

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Re: No more lane splitting for the Western Cape?
« Reply #120 on: February 19, 2013, 01:38:26 pm »
this is what we need

 

Offline vigilant

Re: No more lane splitting for the Western Cape?
« Reply #121 on: February 19, 2013, 01:39:43 pm »
I still think a Mass Ride on the N1 starting at 7.00am in Paarl going to Cape Town will demonstrate the folly of making lane splitting illegal.

I've been itching for a round the joburg, friday morning 7am  >:D

Any takers?
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Offline Buddy

Re: No more lane splitting for the Western Cape?
« Reply #122 on: February 19, 2013, 01:41:54 pm »
QED - make the R/H lane on the N1 a Bike only lane, and allow bikes to use the bus lane on the N2, and the My Citi bus lanes from Tableview. Southern Suburbs would be a problem.
The Townkraaier of Kraaifontein
 

Offline Eisbein

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Re: No more lane splitting for the Western Cape?
« Reply #123 on: February 19, 2013, 01:43:57 pm »
this is what we need



Like the 'self entitled' road users will stay out of those.
 :biggrin:

I don't know about the rest of the morning and the rest of the road, but at the time I ride to work (between 8:00 and 8:25) and on the stretch that I'm in I don't think the amount of bikes warrant something like this.


It would be lekker though.

 :ricky:
 
« Last Edit: February 19, 2013, 01:46:26 pm by Eisbein »
02/02/12 - RIP Glen - the Arrow of Elliot and the little man with the big heart that truly was larger than life.

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For grabbing the moment and living the day It's been way too early that you were taken away
 

Offline the_BOBNOB

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Re: No more lane splitting for the Western Cape?
« Reply #124 on: February 19, 2013, 02:13:24 pm »
i was thinking between the fast and middle lane

on the line separating the 2 lanes

if they have a different colored line 0.5m on either side

that will just show cages that this is where bikes are allowed

the ones the in fast lane would schootch a little to the right and the ones in the middle lane would schootch a little to the left

that would be perfect

i'm not advocating a dedicated lane the size of the picture
 

Offline badseed

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Re: No more lane splitting for the Western Cape?
« Reply #125 on: February 19, 2013, 02:21:03 pm »
Cape Talk radio . Chatting with chairman of the Nomads club about lane splitting at the moment . Tune in
Owner WildWood Motorcycle Tours South Africa
 

Offline Eisbein

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Re: No more lane splitting for the Western Cape?
« Reply #126 on: February 19, 2013, 02:38:46 pm »
i was thinking between the fast and middle lane

on the line separating the 2 lanes

if they have a different colored line 0.5m on either side

that will just show cages that this is where bikes are allowed

the ones the in fast lane would schootch a little to the right and the ones in the middle lane would schootch a little to the left

that would be perfect

i'm not advocating a dedicated lane the size of the picture

That'll have my vote.

 :thumleft:
02/02/12 - RIP Glen - the Arrow of Elliot and the little man with the big heart that truly was larger than life.

You have touched us and left us better for having known you - even if it was only briefly.

For grabbing the moment and living the day It's been way too early that you were taken away
 

Offline Eisbein

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Re: No more lane splitting for the Western Cape?
« Reply #127 on: February 19, 2013, 02:41:57 pm »
Btw - I also sent R an e-mail along the same lines as what was done before and I also got a personal reply not long after.

Not much to add, but he gave me the quote he gave to another biking news letter (including the CA regulations on the subject matter) along with a bit of personalised comment on the mail I sent.

I'm gaining respect for this dude as things go along.
02/02/12 - RIP Glen - the Arrow of Elliot and the little man with the big heart that truly was larger than life.

You have touched us and left us better for having known you - even if it was only briefly.

For grabbing the moment and living the day It's been way too early that you were taken away
 

Offline dpr

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Re: No more lane splitting for the Western Cape?
« Reply #128 on: February 19, 2013, 02:45:10 pm »
Hi All
Herewith email reply I received from Robin Carlisle and I think its refreshing and worth reading & applying any positive input to hin directly....
His reply to me reads thus :-
>>>>>>>>
Hi Dave,
Thanks for your contribution.
There has been an excellent debate which I summarise for you as an”old” biker  - this being a broad overview I gave to a biking newsletter this am:-
 
“ What I said at a media conference on Monday was – in point form:-
- my first concern is for  the safety of bikers, which I am sure you support.
-Secondly,  that bike ownership is growing at 5% pa - bike fatalities at 10% pa.
-This problem of ever growing biker fatalities is universal. They form the highest cohort of fatalities in Australia, and in some of the far eastern countries, biker deaths per 100000 of population exceeds our total deaths on the road.
 
-We note that a number of countries have banned lane splitting - Germany; USA (not California) Canada.
-So lets have a look at it - not introduce it - not legislate for it - lets discuss.
-In the main the feedback from the biker community has been mature, responsible and helpful.
What is emerging is the following:-
                -distracted drivers are a serious menace to bikers;
                -there is an element of totally irresponsible riding within biking
                -bikers need protection from rear-ending.
                -bikers are very vulnerable to unlawful vehicle driving (ie jumping red robots; stop streets, etc)
                -If we are to maintain lane splitting we should get the maximum biker buy in on a code of behaviour. (see the California suggestions below)
                -more advanced biker training is essential and maybe we could get one of the big distributors to help.
                -should we revert to a lights on policy?
 
 
It would be helpful if the correct message went out in your newsletter, and you are welcome to publish my email if any of your readers want to contact me.
 
Sourced from the California Motorcycle Safety Program, and promoted by Cycle World Magazine.
 
Lane splitting in a safe and prudent manner is not illegal.
 
The term lane splitting, sometimes known as lane sharing, filtering or white-lining, refers to the process of a motorcyclist riding between lanes of stopped or slower moving traffic or moving between lanes to the front of traffic stopped at a traffic light.
 
Motorcyclists who are competent enough to lane split, should follow these general guidelines if choosing to lane split:
 
1) Travel at a speed that is no more than 10 MPH faster than other traffic – danger increases at higher speed differentials.
 
- A speed differential of 15kph or less allows an alert, competent rider enough time to identify and react to most dangerous situations that can occur.
- The greater the speed differential, the less time a rider has to identify and react to a hazard.
 
2) It is not advisable to lane split when traffic flow is at 50kph or faster --- danger increases as overall speed increases.
 
- At just 30kph, in the 1 or 2 seconds it takes a rider to identify a hazard, that rider will travel approximately 10 to 20 meters before even starting to take evasive action. Actual reaction (braking or swerving) will take additional time and distance.
- Braking and stopping distance varies greatly based on a multitude of factors (rider, machine and environment).
- As speed increases, crash severity increases.
 
3) Typically, it is safer to split between the #1 and #2 lanes than between other lanes.
 
- Other road users are more accustomed to motorcycles splitting between the #1 and #2 (furthest left) lanes.
- Avoid splitting in lanes near freeway on-ramps and exits.
- Avoid splitting lanes when another motorcycle rider is splitting between other nearby lanes as cars may make additional room for one rider and accidentally reduce space for another.
 
4) Consider the total environment in which you are splitting, including the width of the lanes, size of surrounding vehicles, as well as roadway, weather, and lighting conditions.
 
- Some lanes are narrower than others, leaving little room to pass safely. If you can't fit, don't split.
- Some vehicles are wider than others -- it is not advisable to split near wide trucks. If you can't fit, don't split.
- Know the limitations of your motorcycle --- wide bars, fairing and bags require more space between vehicles. If you can't fit, don't split.
- Avoid splitting on unfamiliar roads to avoid surprises such as poor road surfaces.
- Seams in the pavement or concrete between lanes can be hazardous if they are wide or uneven.
- Poor visibility, due to darkness or weather conditions, makes it difficult for riders to see road hazards and makes it more difficult for drivers to see you.
- Help drivers see you by wearing brightly colored protective gear and using high beams during daylight.
 
5) Be alert and anticipate possible movements by other road users.
 
- Be very aware of what the cars around you are doing. If a space, or gap, opens up next to your lane, be prepared react accordingly.
- Always be prepared to take evasive action if a vehicle changes lanes.
- Account for inattentive or distracted drivers.
- Riders should not weave back and forth between lanes or ride on top of the line.
- Riders should avoid lingering in blind spots.
- Never ride while impaired by drugs, alcohol or fatigue.
- Constantly scan for changing conditions.
 
The Four R's or “Be-Attitudes” of Lane Splitting:
 
Be Reasonable, be Responsible, be Respectful, be aware of all Roadway and traffic conditions.
 
- Be Reasonable means not more than 10 MPH faster than traffic flow and not over 39 MPH.
- Be Responsible for your own safety and decisions.
§             Don't put yourself in dangerous positions.
§             If you can't fit, don't split.
- Be Respectful --- sharing the road goes both ways.
§             Don't rely on loud pipes to keep you safe, loud pipes often startle people and poison the attitude of car drivers toward motorcyclists.
§             Other vehicles are not required to make space for motorcycles to lane split.
- Be aware Roadways and traffic can be hazardous.
§             uneven pavement
§             wide trucks
§             distracted drivers
§             weather conditions
§             curves, etc.
Disclaimers:
These general guidelines are not guaranteed to keep you safe.
Lane splitting should not be performed by inexperienced riders. These guidelines assume a high level of riding competency and experience.
The recommendations contained here are only general guidelines and cannot cover all possible combinations of situations and variables.
Personal Safety: Every rider has ultimate responsibility for his or her own decision making and safety. Riders must be conscious of reducing crash risk at all times. California law requires all motorcycle riders and passengers wear a helmet that complies with the DOT FMVSS 218 standard.
Risk of getting a ticket: Motorcyclists who lane split are not relieved of the responsibility to obey all existing traffic laws. With respect to possible law enforcement action, keep in mind that it will be up to the discretion of the Law Enforcement Officer to determine if riding behavior while lane splitting is or was safe and prudent.
 
When is it NOT OK to split?
 
You should NOT lane split:
- If you can't fit.
 - At a toll booth.
 - If traffic is moving too fast or unpredictably.
 - If dangerous road conditions exist --- examples include water or grit on the road, slippery road markings, road construction, uneven pavement, metal grates, etc.
 - If you cannot clearly see a way out of the space you're going into (for example, if a van or SUV is blocking your view).
 - Between trucks, buses, RVs, and other wide vehicles.
 - Around or through curves.
 - If you are not fully alert and aware of your surroundings.
 - If you are unable to react to changing conditions instantaneously.
 - If you don't feel comfortable with the situation.
 
Messages for Other Vehicle Drivers
 
 1) Lane splitting by motorcycles is not illegal in California when done in a safe and prudent manner.
 2) Motorists should not take it upon themselves to discourage motorcyclists from lane splitting.
 3) Intentionally blocking or impeding a motorcyclist in a way that could cause harm to the rider is illegal (CVC 22400).
 4) Opening a vehicle door to impede a motorcycle is illegal (CVC 22517).
 5) Never drive while distracted.
 6) You can help keep motorcyclists and all road users safe by
§             Checking mirrors and blind spots, especially before changing lanes or turning
§             Signaling your intentions before changing lanes or merging with traffic
§             Allowing more following distance, three or four seconds, when behind a motorcycle so the motorcyclist has enough time to maneuver or stop in an emergency
 
 
 
 
Regards
R
 
Robin Carlisle
Minister of  Transport and Public Works
Western Cape Government
Telephone           +27 21 483 2430
Mobile                  +27 83 264 9018
Address                9 Dorp Street Cape Town
Website                www.westerncape.gov.za
Email                     robin.carlisle@westerncape.gov.za
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Offline The Rock

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Re: No more lane splitting for the Western Cape?
« Reply #129 on: February 19, 2013, 03:13:17 pm »
another thing; motorists should be made aware that lane-splitting is infact legal. a lot of them still think we are breaking the law by lane-splitting and that contributes to the bad attitude towards bikers.
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Offline Eisbein

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Re: No more lane splitting for the Western Cape?
« Reply #130 on: February 19, 2013, 03:27:23 pm »
another thing; motorists should be made aware that lane-splitting is infact legal. a lot of them still think we are breaking the law by lane-splitting and that contributes to the bad attitude towards bikers.

I've had the same argument with lots of guys.

As what have been mentioned at least for now (seeing that this got so much attention) one can close that argument with the fact that they can't now threaten to make it illegal if it is in fact already illegal

;D ;D ;D
02/02/12 - RIP Glen - the Arrow of Elliot and the little man with the big heart that truly was larger than life.

You have touched us and left us better for having known you - even if it was only briefly.

For grabbing the moment and living the day It's been way too early that you were taken away
 

Offline Grrrr....

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Re: No more lane splitting for the Western Cape?
« Reply #131 on: February 19, 2013, 03:41:24 pm »
This was his reply to the last mail I sent him.

I just sent him another email.

Robin

I understand you are a busy man but one last thing.... You say motorcycle deaths have increased but could that not be because the number of motorcycles on our roads have increased?

Also, have you ever been rear ended by another car while in traffic when out driving? I have, twice in the last two years while driving my car and while it was a fender bender it would have been much worse if I was on my motorcycle being forced to ride/drive like a car.

I know you are trying to save lives and this is still just a thought at this stage but banning lanesplitting is not the way to go. Better training of "new" riders entering the daily commute in and out of Cape Town and getting tougher on motorists that keep on using their cellphones and jumping red lights would be a better start in my book.

Thank you for your response.

Regards,
Grrrr....


Thanks Grrrr.
Noted.
Yes - a part of the increase in fatalities would be caused by increased ownership.

Regards
R

Offline espresso

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Re: No more lane splitting for the Western Cape?
« Reply #132 on: February 19, 2013, 04:35:15 pm »
Sent a letter to Robin,
"I’m an old biker who doesn’t ride in the traffic a lot, but when I do, but I can assure you that I really appreciate it that I can approach a robot with stationary cars and lane split until I can get to the front.

This means that when the light turns green I am clear of the other cars and I can stay safe.

We are all aware of the fools who treat the white line as a bike lane and just scream along it as if there is no danger, but please don’t hold this against us who have had training and know how to ride in traffic.

And, by the way………………

 

 

Your traffic cops seem to think it’s O.K. to ride their bikes without much protective gear at all.  I can’t imagine ever riding without gloves , but I often see this. Short sleeved shirt, helmet, riding pants  and boots that look as if they would offer minimal protection.

What kind of an example is this to new bikers???"

 REPLY:

Thanks for this.
I am learning a lot about lane splitting, and I am beginning to favour the Californian approach.
If you see a traffic cop inadequately equipped or dress, please take the reg no and let me have it with time and place of the sighting.



 

Offline Sam

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Re: No more lane splitting for the Western Cape?
« Reply #133 on: February 19, 2013, 05:34:31 pm »
I really wouldn't apply to much thought to this "endeavour". Along with the myriad of existing legislation, they will not be able to enforce this.

Effectively just forces one to operate outside the law. Undesirable, but nevertheless.........they turn law abiding citizens into "criminals".

Responsible adults know how to do things responsibly. .... If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so. .....
 

Offline Bring It On

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Re: No more lane splitting for the Western Cape?
« Reply #134 on: February 19, 2013, 05:42:38 pm »
......I'm gaining respect for this dude as things go along.

I find myself agreeing to that statment as well. :thumleft:
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Offline Eisbein

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Re: No more lane splitting for the Western Cape?
« Reply #135 on: February 19, 2013, 05:48:44 pm »
If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so. .....

Wow...

Is there a panel that decides wich laws are unjust and required to be broken, or do we just make it up as we go along ?

Of all the law related comments and justifications/rationalizations/indignations regarding these things this one might just take the cake...


« Last Edit: February 19, 2013, 05:50:06 pm by Eisbein »
02/02/12 - RIP Glen - the Arrow of Elliot and the little man with the big heart that truly was larger than life.

You have touched us and left us better for having known you - even if it was only briefly.

For grabbing the moment and living the day It's been way too early that you were taken away
 

Offline Grrrr....

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Re: No more lane splitting for the Western Cape?
« Reply #136 on: February 19, 2013, 06:28:51 pm »
If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so. .....

Wow...

Is there a panel that decides wich laws are unjust and required to be broken, or do we just make it up as we go along ?

Of all the law related comments and justifications/rationalizations/indignations regarding these things this one might just take the cake...




No panel, just ask me, I will tell you which ones are fine to break.

For instance speeding, break that mofo, everybody does it just don't be silly buggers and ride/drive 120 in a 60 zone. But stop streets? You better stop or I might just pop a vein....


Offline DaddyK

Re: No more lane splitting for the Western Cape?
« Reply #137 on: February 19, 2013, 06:35:44 pm »
I had a discussion today with a consultant that are actively involved in traffic legislation in the Western Cape and who is likely to also get involved in this issue.

He is interrested in meeting with "The Western Cape Motorcycling Association", when this comes his way. He is of the view that it is better to involve all role players from early on, rather than to wait for public comment where a lot of hard work can be all undone.

I have not been biking for that long and are not aware of any such association.  So, the question is, who will represent the bikers of the Western Cape, any takers?
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Offline Grrrr....

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Re: No more lane splitting for the Western Cape?
« Reply #138 on: February 19, 2013, 06:42:03 pm »
So, the question is, who will represent the bikers of the Western Cape, any takers?

I will!

Leave it to me, by the time I am done with these okes cars, trucks, buses and bicycles, not mountain bikes mind you, will be illegal in the Western Cape and we will have all the roads to ourselves.

I will also dig up all the highways and turn then into gravel highways with the offramps of a more technical nature so you okes thinking of buying the new BMW 1200GS might need to reconsider.

Offline Bring It On

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Re: No more lane splitting for the Western Cape?
« Reply #139 on: February 19, 2013, 09:18:51 pm »
So, the question is, who will represent the bikers of the Western Cape, any takers?

I will!

Leave it to me, by the time I am done with these okes cars, trucks, buses and bicycles, not mountain bikes mind you, will be illegal in the Western Cape and we will have all the roads to ourselves.

I will also dig up all the highways and turn then into gravel highways with the offramps of a more technical nature so you okes thinking of buying the new BMW 1200GS might need to reconsider
.

 :spitcoffee: :laughing4: :imaposer: :imaposer: :imaposer: :imaposer: :imaposer:

Excellent. :thumleft: ;D
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