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Offline monkeyboy

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Re: No more lane splitting for the Western Cape?
« Reply #180 on: February 20, 2013, 02:20:52 pm »
Here's his reply.

"Please note that I am asking for comment on this matter, not introducing it as a law.
Further, that I am trying to save lives of motorcyclists, which is the only category of road fatalities which is rising.
Also, that the bulk of our fatalities are perpetrated by drivers of sedan cars. Taxis used to contribute 11% of our fatalities. This is now down to 5% precisely because we have taken very firm action in this area. Over 3000 taxis have been impounded; resting periods and speed limits enforced.
As a result we have not had a major taxi accident since Nov 2011.
The speed limits you refer to are within the City of Cape Town, which, as I have informed you before, does not fall in my jurisdiction.
We take action to save lives on the road, and despite your misgivings, have been spectacularly successful.
Nowhere in the world has the death rate on the roads been reduced by 30% in 3 years."



Has RC checked the increasing number of bikes being sold and used these days? Obviously the accident rates are rising: the number of users is rising. While it is rising faster than the sales rate, probably many of the deaths are new riders, scooterists, and frustrated cagers who forget that they do not have airbags and bumpers on a Big Boy. On the plus side, he can probably take credit for the fact that there have been almost zero fatalities caused by steam trains since he took office.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2013, 02:23:51 pm by monkeyboy »
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Offline Eisbein

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Re: No more lane splitting for the Western Cape?
« Reply #181 on: February 20, 2013, 02:35:50 pm »
Here's his reply.

"Please note that I am asking for comment on this matter, not introducing it as a law.
Further, that I am trying to save lives of motorcyclists, which is the only category of road fatalities which is rising.
Also, that the bulk of our fatalities are perpetrated by drivers of sedan cars. Taxis used to contribute 11% of our fatalities. This is now down to 5% precisely because we have taken very firm action in this area. Over 3000 taxis have been impounded; resting periods and speed limits enforced.
As a result we have not had a major taxi accident since Nov 2011.
The speed limits you refer to are within the City of Cape Town, which, as I have informed you before, does not fall in my jurisdiction.
We take action to save lives on the road, and despite your misgivings, have been spectacularly successful.
Nowhere in the world has the death rate on the roads been reduced by 30% in 3 years."



Has RC checked the increasing number of bikes being sold and used these days? Obviously the accident rates are rising: the number of users is rising. While it is rising faster than the sales rate, probably many of the deaths are new riders, scooterists, and frustrated cagers who forget that they do not have airbags and bumpers on a Big Boy. On the plus side, he can probably take credit for the fact that there have been almost zero fatalities caused by steam trains since he took office.

As a matter of fact - they did.
5% per year increase in the amount of bikes (licensed) on the road
10% per year increase in motorcycle related deaths


What would be cool to know though is the profiles of the stats - ie how many scooters, how much experience, age, type and size of bike etc.

« Last Edit: February 20, 2013, 02:36:59 pm by Eisbein »
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Offline Grrrr....

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Re: No more lane splitting for the Western Cape?
« Reply #182 on: February 20, 2013, 02:37:10 pm »
Here's his reply.

"Please note that I am asking for comment on this matter, not introducing it as a law.
Further, that I am trying to save lives of motorcyclists, which is the only category of road fatalities which is rising.
Also, that the bulk of our fatalities are perpetrated by drivers of sedan cars. Taxis used to contribute 11% of our fatalities. This is now down to 5% precisely because we have taken very firm action in this area. Over 3000 taxis have been impounded; resting periods and speed limits enforced.
As a result we have not had a major taxi accident since Nov 2011.
The speed limits you refer to are within the City of Cape Town, which, as I have informed you before, does not fall in my jurisdiction.
We take action to save lives on the road, and despite your misgivings, have been spectacularly successful.
Nowhere in the world has the death rate on the roads been reduced by 30% in 3 years."



Has RC checked the increasing number of bikes being sold and used these days? Obviously the accident rates are rising: the number of users is rising. While it is rising faster than the sales rate, probably many of the deaths are new riders, scooterists, and frustrated cagers who forget that they do not have airbags and bumpers on a Big Boy. On the plus side, he can probably take credit for the fact that there have been almost zero fatalities caused by steam trains since he took office.

5% per year increase in the amount of bikes (licensed) on the road
10% per year increase in motorcycle related deaths



So 5% increase is the noobs and 5% is the rest of us riding gods.

Moral of the story?

Erm..... I don't know.

Offline DSNewbie

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Re: No more lane splitting for the Western Cape?
« Reply #183 on: February 20, 2013, 02:57:19 pm »

As a matter of fact - they did.
5% per year increase in the amount of bikes (licensed) on the road
10% per year increase in motorcycle related deaths


Which would only be totally relevant if all motorcycle related deaths involved only the bike and rider, and not other vehicles were involved.
Therefore, the increase in other vehicles on the roads and new riders/drivers on the road regardless of vehicle type will also have an impact.
 

Offline Eisbein

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Re: No more lane splitting for the Western Cape?
« Reply #184 on: February 20, 2013, 03:09:43 pm »

As a matter of fact - they did.
5% per year increase in the amount of bikes (licensed) on the road
10% per year increase in motorcycle related deaths


Which would only be totally relevant if all motorcycle related deaths involved only the bike and rider, and not other vehicles were involved.
Therefore, the increase in other vehicles on the roads and new riders/drivers on the road regardless of vehicle type will also have an impact.

Yes it will - and that is what would have made it one-sided and a bit stupid if the whole shebang was only focussed on the bikers (like it looked like in the beginning).
It is looking though like they might be interested now in a more 'global' solution.

02/02/12 - RIP Glen - the Arrow of Elliot and the little man with the big heart that truly was larger than life.

You have touched us and left us better for having known you - even if it was only briefly.

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Offline Buddy

Re: No more lane splitting for the Western Cape?
« Reply #185 on: February 20, 2013, 03:32:36 pm »
The root problem - lack of policing traffic violations. It starts with not stopping at stop signs
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Offline Dogmatix

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Re: No more lane splitting for the Western Cape?
« Reply #186 on: February 20, 2013, 03:58:52 pm »
Here's his reply.

"Please note that I am asking for comment on this matter, not introducing it as a law.
Further, that I am trying to save lives of motorcyclists, which is the only category of road fatalities which is rising.
Also, that the bulk of our fatalities are perpetrated by drivers of sedan cars. Taxis used to contribute 11% of our fatalities. This is now down to 5% precisely because we have taken very firm action in this area. Over 3000 taxis have been impounded; resting periods and speed limits enforced.
As a result we have not had a major taxi accident since Nov 2011.
The speed limits you refer to are within the City of Cape Town, which, as I have informed you before, does not fall in my jurisdiction.
We take action to save lives on the road, and despite your misgivings, have been spectacularly successful.
Nowhere in the world has the death rate on the roads been reduced by 30% in 3 years."



Has RC checked the increasing number of bikes being sold and used these days? Obviously the accident rates are rising: the number of users is rising. While it is rising faster than the sales rate, probably many of the deaths are new riders, scooterists, and frustrated cagers who forget that they do not have airbags and bumpers on a Big Boy. On the plus side, he can probably take credit for the fact that there have been almost zero fatalities caused by steam trains since he took office.

As a matter of fact - they did.
5% per year increase in the amount of bikes (licensed) on the road
10% per year increase in motorcycle related deaths


What would be cool to know though is the profiles of the stats - ie how many scooters, how much experience, age, type and size of bike etc.



Increase in sales doesn't mean much. A lot of bikes been used on weekends only or not being used regularly, starting to be used more than the car for commuting. Most commuters I see are not on new bikes. 

I reckon the amount of biking commuters has increased more than the 10% he mentions.
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Offline jagter

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Re: No more lane splitting for the Western Cape?
« Reply #187 on: February 20, 2013, 04:03:35 pm »
New bikers are also a lot more accident prone.

So that 5% increase in bikers can easily account for the 10% increase in accidents, as that new 5% is probably more than double as likely to crash.  (The stats for crashes/experience are in the hurt report, don't have to energy to google it now)

 

Offline Eisbein

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Re: No more lane splitting for the Western Cape?
« Reply #188 on: February 20, 2013, 04:04:53 pm »
I reckon the amount of biking commuters has increased more than the 10% he mentions.

I think so too - it would be insightful (and interesting) if we could get demographics of the involved.

02/02/12 - RIP Glen - the Arrow of Elliot and the little man with the big heart that truly was larger than life.

You have touched us and left us better for having known you - even if it was only briefly.

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Offline alexTH3man

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Re: No more lane splitting for the Western Cape?
« Reply #189 on: February 20, 2013, 04:06:38 pm »
I get the distinct impression that some WD's on here did not bother to read the whole thread before posting.

The fact that I have seen the same email copied here four times seems to support my theory.

or what am i saying aleTH3man ??

 :-[ sorry guys... haven't been following this thread as much as the other... my bad!
 

Offline DaddyK

Re: No more lane splitting for the Western Cape?
« Reply #190 on: February 20, 2013, 06:02:48 pm »
I had a discussion today with a consultant that are actively involved in traffic legislation in the Western Cape and who is likely to also get involved in this issue.

He is interrested in meeting with "The Western Cape Motorcycling Association", when this comes his way. He is of the view that it is better to involve all role players from early on, rather than to wait for public comment where a lot of hard work can be all undone.

I have not been biking for that long and are not aware of any such association.  So, the question is, who will represent the bikers of the Western Cape, any takers?

Hmmm..., not sure I would be willing to expose this gentleman to the hornet's nest. After all, his intentions are good, no use getting the messenger killed .....

On a serious note though, anyone interested in partaking in discussions on the subject, please PM me your details so I can forward it to him.

Eisbein, I sucked the "Western Cape Motorcycling Association" out of my thumb, your response to Buddy implies that there is such an association?

I can organise The Viper Lounge (Tableview) as a private function (no cost) venue and we can nominate riders or those adapt at putting points across....an open discussion is also good?
P

Sounds good :thumleft:
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Offline DaddyK

Re: No more lane splitting for the Western Cape?
« Reply #191 on: February 20, 2013, 06:08:43 pm »
I had a discussion today with a consultant that are actively involved in traffic legislation in the Western Cape and who is likely to also get involved in this issue.

He is interrested in meeting with "The Western Cape Motorcycling Association", when this comes his way. He is of the view that it is better to involve all role players from early on, rather than to wait for public comment where a lot of hard work can be all undone.

I have not been biking for that long and are not aware of any such association.  So, the question is, who will represent the bikers of the Western Cape, any takers?

I can organise The Viper Lounge (Tableview) as a private function (no cost) venue and we can nominate riders or those adapt at putting points across....an open discussion is also good?
P

Sounds good :thumleft:
Daddy K ? You on boy!


Lets try again:

Hmmm..., not sure I would be willing to expose this gentleman to the hornet's nest. After all, his intentions are good, no use getting the messenger killed .....

On a serious note though, anyone interested in partaking in discussions on the subject, please PM me your details so I can forward it to him.

Eisbein, I sucked the "Western Cape Motorcycling Association" out of my thumb, your response to Buddy implies that there is such an association?
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Offline badballie

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Re: No more lane splitting for the Western Cape?
« Reply #192 on: February 20, 2013, 06:30:29 pm »
OK haven't read the whole thread, just saw first and last page.

There us an association of all the clubs in the WC, they look into various issues relating to all bikers and may have started looking into thsi issue already or else will certainly be interested

Details here :

http://www.mawc.co.za/
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Offline DaddyK

Re: No more lane splitting for the Western Cape?
« Reply #193 on: February 20, 2013, 07:50:10 pm »
OK haven't read the whole thread, just saw first and last page.

There us an association of all the clubs in the WC, they look into various issues relating to all bikers and may have started looking into thsi issue already or else will certainly be interested

Details here :

http://www.mawc.co.za/

Thank you badballie!!
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Offline badballie

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Re: No more lane splitting for the Western Cape?
« Reply #194 on: February 20, 2013, 07:50:42 pm »
 :thumleft:
Cash, Gas or Ass............ no-one rides for free :-)

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Offline AgentK

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Re: No more lane splitting for the Western Cape?
« Reply #195 on: February 20, 2013, 09:51:19 pm »
My respect to Mr Carlisle.

Even my pokey little email to him answered with a personal touch.
I believe the man is sincere.

I can only hope and pray that if he approaches this forum for ideas, advice or to test the water, the members will show him the same maturity he has shown those who contacted him to support his endeavors.
 

Offline Bring It On

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Re: No more lane splitting for the Western Cape?
« Reply #196 on: February 20, 2013, 09:56:06 pm »
My respect to Mr Carlisle.

Even my pokey little email to him answered with a personal touch.
I believe the man is sincere.

I can only hope and pray that if he approaches this forum for ideas, advice or to test the water, the members will show him the same maturity he has shown those who contacted him to support his endeavors.

+100 on that comment. It really is evident here on this thread that there truly are a lot of guys that are more than prepaired to give valuable input, advice & assistance in making this whole "Lane Splitting" issue.... a more safer & better thing to do. :thumleft:
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Offline monkeyboy

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Re: No more lane splitting for the Western Cape?
« Reply #197 on: February 21, 2013, 01:06:30 pm »
New bikers are also a lot more accident prone.

So that 5% increase in bikers can easily account for the 10% increase in accidents, as that new 5% is probably more than double as likely to crash.  (The stats for crashes/experience are in the hurt report, don't have to energy to google it now)


The other problem is that bikers are squishier than cars. What would scratch my bakkie may kill me, regardless of whether I'm between lanes or in one.
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Offline Fuzzy Muzzy

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Re: No more lane splitting for the Western Cape?
« Reply #198 on: February 21, 2013, 03:29:21 pm »
It has probably been asked a million times.. but, if you are lane splitting

and someone walks between the cars without looking

you hit said person and fall off your bike damaging the bike and one or 2 cars

Who is responsible for the pedestrians injuries
Who is responsible for the bike rider injuries and bike damage
and who is responsible for the car damage

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Offline jagter

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Re: No more lane splitting for the Western Cape?
« Reply #199 on: February 21, 2013, 03:33:55 pm »
It has probably been asked a million times.. but, if you are lane splitting

and someone walks between the cars without looking

you hit said person and fall off your bike damaging the bike and one or 2 cars

Who is responsible for the pedestrians injuries
Who is responsible for the bike rider injuries and bike damage
and who is responsible for the car damage



I would reckon the pedestrian is responsible for everything.

If you were legally lane splitting and some idiot appears from nowhere, I don't see anyone else being at fault?

(not basing this on any legal knowledge.  Just opinion)
« Last Edit: February 21, 2013, 03:34:26 pm by jagter »