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Offline Moondog

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Re: Wilddog Sticker Announcement
« Reply #140 on: April 15, 2013, 10:49:51 pm »
You want to talk about brand value - go and have a look (search) what Tweets has done for the brand value of this forum - when someone is in need, there is no limit to how far he will go to help a member in trouble - helping with kit, tools, driving 1000's of kilos to collect a broken or damaged bike, and the list goes on - for the cost of a few stickers given away for free, an unmeasurable amount of brand value on the Wilddog brand has been destroyed tonight - damn sad day in my humble opinion.  :(  >:(

Cry me a river. Great human being no doubt. Met him myself. Telling me straight to go fuck myself he will continue to rip of the brand and deny us of income.  Sorry, that's not going to work. Why don't you rather go ask your mate why he insist on ripping off the brand and to deny us of income? Sorry, your character witness does not reflect his behavior. That you need to ask him why.

Its your forum mate - stuff it up as much as you like.
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Offline KiLRoy

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Re: Wilddog Sticker Announcement
« Reply #141 on: April 15, 2013, 10:54:35 pm »
You want to talk about brand value - go and have a look (search) what Tweets has done for the brand value of this forum - when someone is in need, there is no limit to how far he will go to help a member in trouble - helping with kit, tools, driving 1000's of kilos to collect a broken or damaged bike, and the list goes on - for the cost of a few stickers given away for free, an unmeasurable amount of brand value on the Wilddog brand has been destroyed tonight - damn sad day in my humble opinion.  :(  >:(

Cry me a river. Great human being no doubt. Met him myself. Telling me straight to go fuck myself he will continue to rip of the brand and deny us of income.  Sorry, that's not going to work. Why don't you rather go ask your mate why he insist on ripping off the brand and to deny us of income? Sorry, your character witness does not reflect his behavior. That you need to ask him why.

Its your forum mate - stuff it up as much as you like.

Great response.... So what will you do if 'a great person' rips off your brand to deny you of income. When you put a rule in place to stop this, this person laughs in your face and tells you he will keep on doing it.

Come mt character witness, what will you do in my position? What will the reasonable man do. Quick with making me the twatwaffle, give me a solution. What will you do?
 

Offline Sidpitt

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Re: Wilddog Sticker Announcement
« Reply #142 on: April 15, 2013, 10:57:31 pm »
I cant wait for this thread to move off the sticker issue and onto the other more expensive merchandise, like T-shirts and buffs and paw printed edible undies!
 :lol8: :lol8: :lol8: :lol8:

Just kidding...... >:D >:D >:D  PLEASE DONT BAN ME (for that light hearted comment)!

Kilroy, please answer me this:
Because I could not find any stickers (as an excited newbie) I made my own reflective paw stickers (without the URL on them) and proudly display them on all my bikes and gear.

See pic.

This was not to screw the system or the forum but rather to assist to promote it.

Now, if I promise to buy 10 x WD Stickers, pay the royalties on them and stick them up wherever I go, (to assist with the promotion of your / our brand) will you please consider not banning me? (even if my paw sticker is not that of a wilddog but of a Rottweiler)
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Offline KiLRoy

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Re: Wilddog Sticker Announcement
« Reply #143 on: April 15, 2013, 11:02:44 pm »
Dude I realise and accept the fact that due to our distribution inability okes made their own stickers. What piss me off is

1 some okes saw the business opportunity and sold these stickers for huge profits ( not the oke making a few for himself)

2 the sticker situation is now sorted, then okes like Tweets still tell me straight that he will keep on counterfeiting the brand, while his tjommies support his actions
 

Offline KiLRoy

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Re: Wilddog Sticker Announcement
« Reply #144 on: April 15, 2013, 11:10:37 pm »
You want to talk about brand value - go and have a look (search) what Tweets has done for the brand value of this forum - when someone is in need, there is no limit to how far he will go to help a member in trouble - helping with kit, tools, driving 1000's of kilos to collect a broken or damaged bike, and the list goes on - for the cost of a few stickers given away for free, an unmeasurable amount of brand value on the Wilddog brand has been destroyed tonight - damn sad day in my humble opinion.  :(  >:(

Cry me a river. Great human being no doubt. Met him myself. Telling me straight to go fuck myself he will continue to rip of the brand and deny us of income.  Sorry, that's not going to work. Why don't you rather go ask your mate why he insist on ripping off the brand and to deny us of income? Sorry, your character witness does not reflect his behavior. That you need to ask him why.

Its your forum mate - stuff it up as much as you like.

Great response.... So what will you do if 'a great person' rips off your brand to deny you of income. When you put a rule in place to stop this, this person laughs in your face and tells you he will keep on doing it.

Come mt character witness, what will you do in my position? What will the reasonable man do. Quick with making me the twatwaffle, give me a solution. What will you do?

So come on moondog, it's easy making me the twatwaffle in this story. What would you have done in my position. Do you condone your tjommie ripping off the brand. Is this what great people do?  Don't post accusations which you are not prepared to defend.  According to you a great injustice was done, what exactly is this injustice, and who caused this injustice?
 

Offline Fuzzy Muzzy

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Re: Wilddog Sticker Announcement
« Reply #145 on: April 15, 2013, 11:19:25 pm »
Kilroy, it's your party but

Why not let everyone make their own stickers, they make them and stick them all over their bikes and helmets because they are proud WD members

You can make money on:

Vendor annual fees
A cut of bash profits
Merchandise, buffs, MX shirts, t shirts, caps, hats, bottle openers etc the sky is the limit, just make the stuff and distribute it to okes with shops.. done and dusted. Okes will support you.

The members making and plukking your stickers everywhere is only advertising YOUR forum and recruiting new members, it is benefiting you already.. is'nt that worth more than the R5 you make off a sticker

Just asking, because the damage this thread is doing is not worth all the money from all the stickers you will make in a whole year, banning good members who add value to the forum because you are not collecting your R5 per sticker degrades their overall value which I think is worth a lot more than the money especially as you have other revenue streams.

just a question and a suggestion.. please don't ban me
« Last Edit: April 15, 2013, 11:20:13 pm by Fuzzy Muzzy »
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Offline KiLRoy

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Re: Wilddog Sticker Announcement
« Reply #146 on: April 15, 2013, 11:22:36 pm »
No, but thanks for your suggestion
 

Offline Sidpitt

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Re: Wilddog Sticker Announcement
« Reply #147 on: April 15, 2013, 11:23:38 pm »
Kilroy, I'm with Moondog and Yami Super 10 on this one mate!

Instead of being hard ass about it and getting all tense because one of the forums dedicated supporters told you off because you want to make money out of selling stickers, why not accept that we all enjoy this site and will not do anything to see it go down.

Were are your marketing skills dude?
eg. Have a 1000 Buffs made tomorrow, increase the selling price by R10 each, and you will sell them all in a week.
(if your distribution skills are on par)

Then, give away 10 000 wilddog stickers to anyone who wants one (or more).....get more members onto the forum who in turn will buy more Buffs.
They will advertise the forum for you, for free at no charge.

PS: We're in this together man, listen to suggestions and stop being a Boss! (for a few bucks on stickers)
Have you listened to the offer Firecoast  made earlier?
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Offline Sidpitt

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Re: Wilddog Sticker Announcement
« Reply #148 on: April 15, 2013, 11:25:00 pm »
Kilroy, it's your party but

Why not let everyone make their own stickers, they make them and stick them all over their bikes and helmets because they are proud WD members

You can make money on:

Vendor annual fees
A cut of bash profits
Merchandise, buffs, MX shirts, t shirts, caps, hats, bottle openers etc the sky is the limit, just make the stuff and distribute it to okes with shops.. done and dusted. Okes will support you.

The members making and plukking your stickers everywhere is only advertising YOUR forum and recruiting new members, it is benefiting you already.. is'nt that worth more than the R5 you make off a sticker

Just asking, because the damage this thread is doing is not worth all the money from all the stickers you will make in a whole year, banning good members who add value to the forum because you are not collecting your R5 per sticker degrades their overall value which I think is worth a lot more than the money especially as you have other revenue streams.

just a question and a suggestion.. please don't ban me

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Offline Fuzzy Muzzy

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Re: Wilddog Sticker Announcement
« Reply #149 on: April 15, 2013, 11:29:09 pm »
No, but thanks for your suggestion

ok, well, start banning.. you have a lot of people to get through  :thumleft:
 
I will remove my stickers off my bike just to be 100% sure I am within your rules, and honestly, I don't feel like advertising the forum for free anymore.

Serious a free sticker.. you won't even give WD members that.. wow, I'm not even worth that much to this forum.

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Offline KiLRoy

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Re: Wilddog Sticker Announcement
« Reply #150 on: April 15, 2013, 11:29:38 pm »
Dude the same argument will come up....

Why must I pay x for a t-shirt/buff/whatever when I can make my counterfeit tshirts for y

There is no issue, we sell stickers here. We don't want people to rip off the brand. We all are happy with this except for Tweets for some or other reason.

So no, our stickers will stay.

 

Offline Fuzzy Muzzy

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Re: Wilddog Sticker Announcement
« Reply #151 on: April 15, 2013, 11:34:17 pm »
ok but how are you going to control it

you can't.. so you are not using the situation to your advantage and rewarding members for their loyal support, instead you have placed the value of the average WD member at below R5.

Your call.. it is not for me to agree or disagree with you on it, it is your decision and the consequences of that decision are yours.. just like e tolls, most of the okes will just go along with it, for some it will leave a sour taste and for the rest.. well fuck it, they will just skip the toll s and tell the owners to get knotted..

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Offline Yami Super 10

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Re: Wilddog Sticker Announcement
« Reply #152 on: April 15, 2013, 11:41:24 pm »
Hi KR,

I would like to put a order in plz.
50 of these below :thumleft:

Can I do the EFT :deal: When could I expect it?
Whats your cost?

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Offline Heimer

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Re: Wilddog Sticker Announcement
« Reply #153 on: April 15, 2013, 11:42:04 pm »
I heard that some dudes got a free sticker in the mail after they joined (years ago)

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Offline KiLRoy

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Re: Wilddog Sticker Announcement
« Reply #154 on: April 15, 2013, 11:47:29 pm »
It's a question of principle and ethics. It's not ethical to rip off a commercial brand. It is a source of income to this forum. Something we created out of nothing.

Rather turn the question around and think if the R5 royalty per sticker is worth what you get from this forum for free. This is a place where you meet friends, read ride reports, go for rides, chat about all sort of things, get technical advice, buy and sell things, etc.  but no, still it's too much to ask to pay a royalty of R5 per sticker?

Sorry, the irony of this is only superseded by the sadness of this matter. Buy the sticker or don't, that's your choice, but don't rip it off please.  And think carefully if the royalty and price to pay is worth what you get here on this forum...everything you get is free, so you expect me to provide free stickers too?
 

Offline Fuzzy Muzzy

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Re: Wilddog Sticker Announcement
« Reply #155 on: April 15, 2013, 11:57:47 pm »
valid point, I was'nt suggesting you provide the stickers for free.. just give permission for people to make a sticker, it would cost you nothing.

Yes you loose some income, I can't see the R5 you get from a sale of a sticker as being a bank breaker for you, but it goes a long way to goodwill, instead you are being met with resistance which you are not calculating the cost of.

If I buy a DNA filter or a K&N filter I get a sticker which I put on my bike and it advertises that brand for years on every ride I go on

Good business sence.. hell yes.

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Offline Yami Super 10

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Re: Wilddog Sticker Announcement
« Reply #156 on: April 16, 2013, 12:12:42 am »
It's a question of principle and ethics. It's not ethical to rip off a commercial brand. It is a source of income to this forum. Something we created out of nothing.

Rather turn the question around and think if the R5 royalty per sticker is worth what you get from this forum for free. This is a place where you meet friends, read ride reports, go for rides, chat about all sort of things, get technical advice, buy and sell things, etc.  but no, still it's too much to ask to pay a royalty of R5 per sticker?

Sorry, the irony of this is only superseded by the sadness of this matter. Buy the sticker or don't, that's your choice, but don't rip it off please.  And think carefully if the royalty and price to pay is worth what you get here on this forum...everything you get is free, so you expect me to provide free stickers too?

KR,

I am a quiet WD, never taken it on to take a fellow WD on.
But I think you are missing the main point.
1 You as the Forum could never supply and keep up with the demand.
Thats where it all started.
And if someone of the WD opted to make stickers, what ever they made, I am sure they did not become millionaires.

This trend You as the Main dog, should have stopped years back. As said before, go and look up at all the treads of where new dogs asked for stickers and stuff.

Thus by doing it and you out of the royalty fees, You have benefitted much more out of what they have been doing for years.
This WD forum has grown.

I am not saying that if someone tells you in your face to go and F your self. Thats between you and him.

But what I am getting to. The Forum has and could never supply the demand.
So, dont you think you need to start there FIRST before you want to ban every one who has a Non Loyalty sticker??

If I could buy the stuff I want, I would pay for it. If I cant get it where I should, well then I look for it.
I am dam sure you would do, exactly that as well.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2013, 12:18:18 am by Yami Super 10 »
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Offline Moondog

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Re: Wilddog Sticker Announcement
« Reply #157 on: April 16, 2013, 12:20:37 am »
You want to talk about brand value - go and have a look (search) what Tweets has done for the brand value of this forum - when someone is in need, there is no limit to how far he will go to help a member in trouble - helping with kit, tools, driving 1000's of kilos to collect a broken or damaged bike, and the list goes on - for the cost of a few stickers given away for free, an unmeasurable amount of brand value on the Wilddog brand has been destroyed tonight - damn sad day in my humble opinion.  :(  >:(

Cry me a river. Great human being no doubt. Met him myself. Telling me straight to go fuck myself he will continue to rip of the brand and deny us of income.  Sorry, that's not going to work. Why don't you rather go ask your mate why he insist on ripping off the brand and to deny us of income? Sorry, your character witness does not reflect his behavior. That you need to ask him why.

Its your forum mate - stuff it up as much as you like.

Great response.... So what will you do if 'a great person' rips off your brand to deny you of income. When you put a rule in place to stop this, this person laughs in your face and tells you he will keep on doing it.

Come mt character witness, what will you do in my position? What will the reasonable man do. Quick with making me the twatwaffle, give me a solution. What will you do?

So come on moondog, it's easy making me the twatwaffle in this story. What would you have done in my position. Do you condone your tjommie ripping off the brand. Is this what great people do?  Don't post accusations which you are not prepared to defend.  According to you a great injustice was done, what exactly is this injustice, and who caused this injustice?

Firstly, Im not sure what I accused you of. I suggested that in my opinion, your actions have destroyed brand value  - that is my opinion and you are of course entitled to a different one.

You ask me what I would do in your position - well, quite frankly, I wouldn't be in your position. If you run www.wilddog.za.net as a business, then that is exactly how you need to behave - like a businessman - you are not a moderator on this forum, you are the owner. The owner of a business treats it like his own child - not making spur of the moment decisions, but rather taking a step back, seeking opportunities and making decisions based on complete information after thorough consideration.

You are sitting on a potential goldmine with this forum and you have done brilliantly to get it where it is today, but if you want to extract the value out of it, the components that will make cash - like branded items, advertising, etc, need to be properly managed, and will need a lot of good old fashioned work. These items, and the appeal to your vendors / advertisers is based almost completely on your brand value - so every decision must be based on whether it builds or destroys brand value.

People like Tweets are a huge asset to your forum, because the things that they do (helping forum members, planning rides, etc) appeal to the mass 'customer' that you are trying to retain. Even the very action that has pissed you off so badly here is based on trying to attract people to bashes, rides  and other gatherings - getting people to interact with eachother - which is the lifeblood of this platform - making it so much more than just an internet forum - at the cost of a few R5's.

I think this at you are trying to defend an undefendable position with the plain paw sticker - simply because it is already so widely used all over SA and the rest of the world. Anyway, most businesses would die for the free publicity - you could even request that the paw is printed with your www address - improving your visibility and generating even more clicks.

There you have it - free advice, use, or dont.
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Offline Yami Super 10

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Re: Wilddog Sticker Announcement
« Reply #158 on: April 16, 2013, 12:27:20 am »
You want to talk about brand value - go and have a look (search) what Tweets has done for the brand value of this forum - when someone is in need, there is no limit to how far he will go to help a member in trouble - helping with kit, tools, driving 1000's of kilos to collect a broken or damaged bike, and the list goes on - for the cost of a few stickers given away for free, an unmeasurable amount of brand value on the Wilddog brand has been destroyed tonight - damn sad day in my humble opinion.  :(  >:(

Cry me a river. Great human being no doubt. Met him myself. Telling me straight to go fuck myself he will continue to rip of the brand and deny us of income.  Sorry, that's not going to work. Why don't you rather go ask your mate why he insist on ripping off the brand and to deny us of income? Sorry, your character witness does not reflect his behavior. That you need to ask him why.

Its your forum mate - stuff it up as much as you like.

Great response.... So what will you do if 'a great person' rips off your brand to deny you of income. When you put a rule in place to stop this, this person laughs in your face and tells you he will keep on doing it.

Come mt character witness, what will you do in my position? What will the reasonable man do. Quick with making me the twatwaffle, give me a solution. What will you do?

So come on moondog, it's easy making me the twatwaffle in this story. What would you have done in my position. Do you condone your tjommie ripping off the brand. Is this what great people do?  Don't post accusations which you are not prepared to defend.  According to you a great injustice was done, what exactly is this injustice, and who caused this injustice?

Firstly, Im not sure what I accused you of. I suggested that in my opinion, your actions have destroyed brand value  - that is my opinion and you are of course entitled to a different one.

You ask me what I would do in your position - well, quite frankly, I wouldn't be in your position. If you run www.wilddog.za.net as a business, then that is exactly how you need to behave - like a businessman - you are not a moderator on this forum, you are the owner. The owner of a business treats it like his own child - not making spur of the moment decisions, but rather taking a step back, seeking opportunities and making decisions based on complete information after thorough consideration.

You are sitting on a potential goldmine with this forum and you have done brilliantly to get it where it is today, but if you want to extract the value out of it, the components that will make cash - like branded items, advertising, etc, need to be properly managed, and will need a lot of good old fashioned work. These items, and the appeal to your vendors / advertisers is based almost completely on your brand value - so every decision must be based on whether it builds or destroys brand value.

People like Tweets are a huge asset to your forum, because the things that they do (helping forum members, planning rides, etc) appeal to the mass 'customer' that you are trying to retain. Even the very action that has pissed you off so badly here is based on trying to attract people to bashes, rides  and other gatherings - getting people to interact with eachother - which is the lifeblood of this platform - making it so much more than just an internet forum - at the cost of a few R5's.

I think this at you are trying to defend an undefendable position with the plain paw sticker - simply because it is already so widely used all over SA and the rest of the world. Anyway, most businesses would die for the free publicity - you could even request that the paw is printed with your www address - improving your visibility and generating even more clicks.

There you have it - free advice, use, or dont.

Well said Moondog :thumleft:
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Offline KiLRoy

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Re: Wilddog Sticker Announcement
« Reply #159 on: April 16, 2013, 12:56:25 am »
Thanks for the free advice Moondog.

Building the brand however does not mean bending over backwards and allowing to get shafted by a few individuals who rip off your brand. Building your brand also mean setting clear and fair boundaries wrt to business ethics and the model we are working towards.

YS10, we had a situation for a few years where we couldn't supply members with stickers. This resulted in okes doing their own thing,which can be expected.

This however now changed with a more 'open source' model where many sticker vendors can now make and distribute WD stickers (I explained this in previous posts).  This mean that the demand can be catered for, while still remaining central control over the range of stickers available, especially from a brand consistency point of view.  These stickers are now available through quite a few distributors, all making profits in the process. The deal is R5 royalty to go to the forum. 

This model is now in place and we will grow it.  Since we now have the means to distribute stickers I requests the previous counterfeiters (in the absence of our capability) to please stop, to apply sound ethics and buy WD stickers via the formal channels.  99% of people have no issue doing just that.

The point is, I do view the stickers as an important branded product, not only for the forum, but also for the wholesalers and distributors.  Our vendors also like stocking stickers in order to attract clients.

So this is the business model I would like to pursue. In order to realise this, I need to crack down on the okes counterfeiting stickers and not generating the R5 royalty.  So when someone tells me straight that he is not prepared to stop distributing counterfeit stickers (to the WD captured audience to add insult to injury) it leaves me with little option as to act tough.  I don't think my request is unreasonable and would be supported by 99% of forum members.  I appreciate that the person in question is a stand up guy, which leaves me more perplex by his behavior. Maybe you can shed light on this matter?