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Offline Etienne2T

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Re: 4T or 2T?
« Reply #60 on: November 01, 2013, 08:47:18 am »
At the end of the day it's pretty much personal preference wrt 2T vs 4T, I like 4T more, braaaaaap
 

Offline BlueBull2007

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Re: 4T or 2T?
« Reply #61 on: November 01, 2013, 04:09:45 pm »
Nice Pik Etienne :thumleft:

I owned a Service Honda CR 500 AF (Aluminium frame). Due to the motocross gear ratios, no more than 120Km/h with stock sprockets. The Kx 500 was almost identical in top speed. As a matter of interest when I was racing in 2012 I swopped my race Honda CRF450R with a crf450x gearbox and e/start for a Ktm 300. In race trim they weighed almost  the same (The Honda was about 2 Kg's Heavier). This was because of the fuel capacity (11.5 liters on the KTM 300) compared to 7.5 liters on the CRF 450 R to do the same range and the addition of a stainless steel pipe cage to protect the 2 stroke pipe  (A must have if you race WfO'S and hare scrambles in Kzn) which added another 3 kg's (4 kg's for the fuel and 3 Kg's for the pipe added 7 Kg's to the Ktm). Even thought they weighed almost the same the Crf450 always felt a bit  heavier due to the inertia of the 4t motor. Having owned over 40 dirt bikes and 9 four strokes, I can't even make up my mind which is better as both 2t's and 4t's each have their own ups and downs.

We are lucky to be able to make the choice .Pre 98 we only had a few trail based bikes like honda xr's to choose from if you didn't want to ride a 2 t and my personal opinion, try and  do some proper rides on  both and see what suits you. A spin up the road is not enough to make up your mind as it takes time to get used to a 2t if you ride a 4t and vice versa.

That's a very insightful post wreckit - thanks. Welcome to the forum BTW. :ricky:

Soooo, I'm guessing you are still a 2S fan on a track, but what would you personally use on an enduro and why?
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Offline Nox

Re: 4T or 2T?
« Reply #62 on: November 10, 2013, 05:41:07 pm »
I love a 4T, but they are too expensive to repair.

In the end its not about the bike, its about any rider on a KTM, 200, 250 or 300! :3some:
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Offline Beserker

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Re: 4T or 2T?
« Reply #63 on: November 10, 2013, 08:11:49 pm »
Soooo, I'm guessing you are still a 2S fan on a track, but what would you personally use on an enduro and why?

I would imagine it to be the other way around....MX tracks are designed with 4T in mind.

For enduro,  2t should be the favourite, they are light, hard as nails, makes good power without overheating, and depending on your porting, the power can be tuneable from being a torque tractor to a high rev screamer, the reason why the 2t is still the weapon of choice at Erzberg, Hells Gate, Romaniacs and the local enduro loop.
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Offline ETS

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Re: 4T or 2T?
« Reply #64 on: November 21, 2013, 03:12:37 pm »
I love 2T buttt at the 2013 Roof, 4T ruled in the wet conditions :xxbah:
If i had to explain you would not understand anyway......
 

Offline 2StrokeDan

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Re: 4T or 2T?
« Reply #65 on: November 25, 2013, 06:40:32 pm »
I love 2T buttt at the 2013 Roof, 4T ruled in the wet conditions :xxbah:

I believe that if you gave the top runners 2strokes, results would have been the same.
 

Online Dux

Re: 4T or 2T?
« Reply #66 on: November 25, 2013, 07:55:24 pm »
I love 2T buttt at the 2013 Roof, 4T ruled in the wet conditions :xxbah:

I believe that if you gave the top runners 2strokes, results would have been the same.

This is true , I reckon they were given 4 strokes to boost sales , the last 5 /6 years they have been outsold dramatically by the 2 strokes .
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Offline Beserker

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Re: 4T or 2T?
« Reply #67 on: November 26, 2013, 07:55:27 am »
I believe that if you gave the top runners 2strokes, results would have been the same.

Nope....Wade Young would have been in there as well...

But his issue was a KTM as well as a 4T issue  :pot:
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Offline Chukudeer

Re: 4T or 2T?
« Reply #68 on: November 26, 2013, 08:29:52 am »
I spent many a year riding and racing (not very successfully) 4 strokes and have now for the past 6 months been testing a 300 2t to see if it is really worth the hype.
One must first look at skill levels and the kind of riding you intend doing.
For technical riding.
As a beginner the 350 4T is the bike to have, no matter what size you are. It is forgiving easy on the power, the 4T helps with braking against compression and unless you like riding open dirt roads plenty fast enough.
I would stay away from the 450 4T, the power is huge and tires you out as there is just too much, it is eather on or off and makes the bike feel heavy. Good for those open dirt roads, quad tracks etc, impress your mates with your wheelie skills bla bla bla until they take you up the first koppie.
For many a year I used the 525 4T, then the 500 with fuel injection....huge bikes you say. But no, due to the smoother power delivery it is like riding a big V8, strong but without the 450 snap. Power rolls on smoothly and it seldom surprises. (I lie that 500 is a mad hatter that will make you run out of talent if you ain't carefull) Yes the bike is heavy but I'm a big boy. I do not mind the koppies as the bike "tractors" with plenty low down power and the compression braking is huge. The heavy bike also tracks nicely over rocks as the giro effect tends to keep it upright. Biggest issue here is that if not ridden in the power band (very scary) one does not always have the snap to lift the front wheel over unexpected obstacles.
Now the 2T, you get on board the first time and the bike feels so small, like a kids toy, yet when you get on the power it goes like a mad rabbit, then the band kicks in and all hell brakes loose. Al of a sudden trees and rocks appear much faster than expected, you drop off the power like on the 4T expecting the bike to slow down against compression and nothing happens! actually it feels like the thing goes faster! Scary yet exhilarating! The front wheel seldom touches the ground and you tend to steer the bike with the back wheel.

It will be some time before I can say that I prefer the 2T over the 4T but after the past 6 months of hating every minute on the 2T things are starting to slowly fall in place, it might just convince me....lets see, I will have to give it another 6 months to convince me.....

Now go out and ride them both, not just around the parking lot but get out there on the single track, go do some koppies, have fun!

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Offline BlueBull2007

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Re: 4T or 2T?
« Reply #69 on: November 26, 2013, 02:16:56 pm »
As a 4T guy myself thinking about 2T I appreciated your post, thanks!
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Online Dux

Re: 4T or 2T?
« Reply #70 on: November 26, 2013, 02:34:10 pm »
having had the pleasure of testing a selection on a course over a weekend I found that if terrain is slippery then the 250 - 4 stroke ruled , steep long climbs the 450 and 250/300 2 stroke were the easiest , for maximum fun I loved the 200 - 2 stroke but my brain tells me the 250 - 2 stroke would probably be the bests choice for me . But remember this is at the coast where everything pulls that much stronger .
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Offline Beserker

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Re: 4T or 2T?
« Reply #71 on: November 26, 2013, 02:50:48 pm »

It will be some time before I can say that I prefer the 2T over the 4T but after the past 6 months of hating every minute on the 2T things are starting to slowly fall in place, it might just convince me....lets see, I will have to give it another 6 months to convince me.....


The one thing to remember is that a 2T, by virtue of porting and another mods, can be tuned to what you want it to do.

Unfortunately, in OEM trim, like shocks, most bikes are set up to suit a very broad spectrum of users, reasonably well/reasonably shitty.

Take your bike to a tuning specialist, and have it set up, ported etc. to your needs.
Keep in mind a pipe like an FMF has a dramatic effect on the tune of the bike, (much more than on a 4T) and can easily turn your torque hill climber into a screaming SX machine.

All the components need to work together....speak to Eric Gorr if you want advice on what to do for setup.
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Online Dux

Re: 4T or 2T?
« Reply #72 on: November 26, 2013, 03:26:25 pm »

It will be some time before I can say that I prefer the 2T over the 4T but after the past 6 months of hating every minute on the 2T things are starting to slowly fall in place, it might just convince me....lets see, I will have to give it another 6 months to convince me.....


The one thing to remember is that a 2T, by virtue of porting and another mods, can be tuned to what you want it to do.

Unfortunately, in OEM trim, like shocks, most bikes are set up to suit a very broad spectrum of users, reasonably well/reasonably shitty.

Take your bike to a tuning specialist, and have it set up, ported etc. to your needs.
Keep in mind a pipe like an FMF has a dramatic effect on the tune of the bike, (much more than on a 4T) and can easily turn your torque hill climber into a screaming SX machine.

All the components need to work together....speak to Eric Gorr if you want advice on what to do for setup.

Don't forget that the power characteristics on the KTM 2 strokes can also be changed with the power valve springs , very easy to do .
FMF do a wide variety of pipes , the Gnarly for example is a bottom end/midrange pipe whereas the SST is a pretty aggressive higher rpm pipe , they do a REV pipe and the Fatty , other advantage of the Gnarly is that it is made of a thicker metal than the other systems .
Eric Gorr has closed shop , but he was able to pass on lots of info .
The KTM range give good power with the stock spring , so you have good bottom and mid with good runout on top , in your case it sounds like it is really just a matter of getting used to riding 2 strokes , very different to 4 strokes , but in my opinion more rewarding once mastered .
« Last Edit: November 26, 2013, 03:27:17 pm by Dux »
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Offline Beserker

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Re: 4T or 2T?
« Reply #73 on: November 26, 2013, 03:35:04 pm »

Eric Gorr has closed shop , but he was able to pass on lots of info .


He is now with Forward Motion:

Eric Gorr
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Offline BLK

Re: 4T or 2T?
« Reply #74 on: November 26, 2013, 03:44:24 pm »
I spent many a year riding and racing (not very successfully) 4 strokes and have now for the past 6 months been testing a 300 2t to see if it is really worth the hype.
One must first look at skill levels and the kind of riding you intend doing.
For technical riding.
As a beginner the 350 4T is the bike to have, no matter what size you are. It is forgiving easy on the power, the 4T helps with braking against compression and unless you like riding open dirt roads plenty fast enough.
I would stay away from the 450 4T, the power is huge and tires you out as there is just too much, it is eather on or off and makes the bike feel heavy. Good for those open dirt roads, quad tracks etc, impress your mates with your wheelie skills bla bla bla until they take you up the first koppie.
For many a year I used the 525 4T, then the 500 with fuel injection....huge bikes you say. But no, due to the smoother power delivery it is like riding a big V8, strong but without the 450 snap. Power rolls on smoothly and it seldom surprises. (I lie that 500 is a mad hatter that will make you run out of talent if you ain't carefull) Yes the bike is heavy but I'm a big boy. I do not mind the koppies as the bike "tractors" with plenty low down power and the compression braking is huge. The heavy bike also tracks nicely over rocks as the giro effect tends to keep it upright. Biggest issue here is that if not ridden in the power band (very scary) one does not always have the snap to lift the front wheel over unexpected obstacles.
Now the 2T, you get on board the first time and the bike feels so small, like a kids toy, yet when you get on the power it goes like a mad rabbit, then the band kicks in and all hell brakes loose. Al of a sudden trees and rocks appear much faster than expected, you drop off the power like on the 4T expecting the bike to slow down against compression and nothing happens! actually it feels like the thing goes faster! Scary yet exhilarating! The front wheel seldom touches the ground and you tend to steer the bike with the back wheel.

It will be some time before I can say that I prefer the 2T over the 4T but after the past 6 months of hating every minute on the 2T things are starting to slowly fall in place, it might just convince me....lets see, I will have to give it another 6 months to convince me.....

Now go out and ride them both, not just around the parking lot but get out there on the single track, go do some koppies, have fun!



Nicely put,thks
 

Offline Chukudeer

Re: 4T or 2T?
« Reply #75 on: November 26, 2013, 05:12:35 pm »
Thanks Berserker, the setup is fine, I have sorted it to the point where everything runs perfectly for what I like, including suspecion.

This is a 300 Gas Gas, it comes with the bells and whistles, no need to do red spring thingies like on the KTM. Sorted the low down torque with sprocketing, rest is about getting used to actually use the back brake..... :ricky: :ricky:  thing goes like stink, problem is not the bike it is the operator.....
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Online Dux

Re: 4T or 2T?
« Reply #76 on: November 26, 2013, 08:28:45 pm »
The GG300 has phenomenally smooth power delivery , so you are right no need to mess about with anything , but I can relate to the rear brake thing , I came from superbikes and then an XR600 , so didn't use the rear brake much , got a KDX200 and scared myself stupid , in the beginning I actually bled some air into the rear brakes so that it would be easier to get used to using them without locking up and stalling all the time .
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Offline Rough Rider

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Re: 4T or 2T?
« Reply #77 on: November 27, 2013, 10:18:00 am »
I took a spin around the enduro track at Zone 7 the other day on Sherco 300i. I got around about twice as quick as I could on my RM250, and lot of it was due to engine braking. A lot was also due to the way the thing hooks up out of the corners. I suppose the suspension helped a bit too.

Ah f**k it who am I kidding; you can't compare a modern state of the art enduro machine to a 250 MX bike on an enduro track.
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Offline Milla

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Re: 4T or 2T?
« Reply #78 on: November 27, 2013, 02:08:05 pm »
Ok. Say you weigh in at 130kgs and want to do a couple of Enduro's during the year, which bike will suite you better? 300 2T or 350/450 4T?
 

Offline Beserker

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Re: 4T or 2T?
« Reply #79 on: November 27, 2013, 03:33:19 pm »
Ok. Say you weigh in at 130kgs and want to do a couple of Enduro's during the year, which bike will suite you better? 300 2T or 350/450 4T?

The stationary bike at the gym is a good starting point  ;D

For Enduro (not off road) the lighter the better.

For a fairly inexperienced rider there is something like to much power, at 88kg, my preference is a 200cc 2T, giving me enough power, torque. Also, a 2T clutch can be abused till the cows come home, a good trait for Enduro
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