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Offline Pleco

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BMW 1200GS engine rebuild
« on: May 30, 2013, 01:20:29 pm »
Hello There.

I am rebuilding the GS's motor. This to me is an interesting project, and a huge learning curve. I want this motor as sweet as it could be. Been working on it for a while.

Replaced all bearings and seals, and re assembled. Ran it a 1000kms and had to strip, as the cam chains were stretched too far. It was stupid not to change them at the time, but on the positive side, it now gives me a good chance to inspect the previous work.

I had a lot of frustrations with parts supply on the previous rebuild, and now it seems some of my fears and frustrations were well founded. I will post the rebuilds here (have it on adv rider) as I get a chance.

For now, I need a well respected engineering shop to assist me with matching bearings to the crank, as BMW cannot or does not want to help me, even when I give them the VIN number.

Not sure if anybody has attempted this before, as info on the web is non existent.
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Offline ChrisL - DUSTRIDERS

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Re: BMW 1200GS engine rebuild
« Reply #1 on: May 30, 2013, 01:25:08 pm »
Can you not get the bearings from Motoworks in the UK?
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Offline Pleco

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Re: BMW 1200GS engine rebuild
« Reply #2 on: May 30, 2013, 01:27:22 pm »
My posts from ADVrider

Hello Guys.

I own a high mileage 2005 GS1200. It has done about 150 000kms so far and counting.

When I bought it, it had a high pitched rattle noise at about 4000RPM while cruising / coasting. Its gone under power.

I now have what I can only describe as a stretched chain noise from low revs all the way up while coasting / cruising. Gone when I pull the clutch and drop the revs while rolling.

I am not sure at what intervals the chains / chain guides/ chain tensioners need to be replaced. Cannot get a lot of info out there, as there seems to be only a few 2005 and on models with this high mileage.

Any ideas?
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Offline Pleco

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Re: BMW 1200GS engine rebuild
« Reply #3 on: May 30, 2013, 01:28:55 pm »
Hello There.

Well, the rattle turned to a clatter, and I decided to rather pull the left side cylinder off to inspect.

So far, visually, everything almost look like new. The honing marks are even still visible in the sleeve.

The only wear I can see is on the small end bearings. I could not pic the other side, but it has the same bald spot directly opposite the I am not sure if this would cause the racket I was hearing.

Any input here from guys with engine experience.

Bald spot on both sides



Other items with veryu little wear and carbon





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Offline Pleco

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Re: BMW 1200GS engine rebuild
« Reply #4 on: May 30, 2013, 01:30:16 pm »
Hello There.

It just got a lot worse last night. :mad:

I decided to pull the conrods to see the condition of the big end bearings. (by the way, the conrods have a funny way of joining. see pics)

This is what I found:



And this:



The one set of bearings was turning between the conrod and crank. Here is the conrod. Note the mating faces.



Here are pics of the 2 crank journals:



and



I will be pulling the whole motor tomorrow night, to see what else has gone wrong.

At this stage it seems that rebuilding the motor is not a viable financial option.

Do any of you lot know of a salvage yard on your side of the pond where I can get pricing on a reasonable low mileage recovered engine please?
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Offline Beebop

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Re: BMW 1200GS engine rebuild
« Reply #5 on: May 30, 2013, 01:31:09 pm »
I been following this on advrider.
http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=840068&page=8
Waiting anxiously for the next update.
 

Offline Pleco

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Re: BMW 1200GS engine rebuild
« Reply #6 on: May 30, 2013, 01:31:14 pm »
OK, the decision was made that I need to get that crank out, and inspect the rest of the insides.

This was getting very daunting. The motor is the main frame, so the front and the back of the bike needs to unbolted from it.

All wiring harnesses, pipes and cables needed to be separated as well.











All I can say is that the REPROM is absolutely indispensible.
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Offline Pleco

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Re: BMW 1200GS engine rebuild
« Reply #7 on: May 30, 2013, 01:32:20 pm »
Now that we had the motor out, stripping it down was the next step.

2 things that were tricky here, was the removal of the timing cover, and pulling the crank pulley. Had to amke a few plans, and also had to heat up the crank pulley to get it loose.

Motor in halves:



Left half


Right half


Worst main bearing


Oil pump housing has seen a bit of scouring, and will probably need replacing.




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Offline Pleco

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Re: BMW 1200GS engine rebuild
« Reply #8 on: May 30, 2013, 01:33:03 pm »
Got some good news for a change.

The crank has been polished. The marks on it were pieces of big ends stuck to the surface.

Pistons and sleeves are all in tolerance. I would just put new rings in while I am in this far.

So, it seems costs are down to gaskets, seals, main bearings and conrods. Still need to have the oil pump checked.

Feeling a little better now.
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Unfortunately the big end bearing turned inside the one conrod.
And both small ends have bald spots. Bmw does not sell the small end bushes separately only complete on conrod.

There are some pics of the small end bearings and conrod wear.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2013, 01:33:48 pm by Pleco »
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Offline Pleco

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Re: BMW 1200GS engine rebuild
« Reply #9 on: May 30, 2013, 01:35:10 pm »
Except for the wear on both ends of the conrods, the wear is surprisingly low on the rest of the motor.

Not sure why the conrod bearings should be more prone to damage.The main bearings look like they had some impact damage. There are some small indentations, as can be seen in the one pic.



The Oil issue, is more of a cold versus hot climate issue for me. At our mild to very hot temps, a 20W40 or 50 would be better. At freezing temps a 10W would be a better bet, as the startup lubrication is much better. But it would probably get way too thin at 40 deg c heat out in  the bush over here.

I am still cleaning up, and will keep it posted.
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Offline Pleco

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Re: BMW 1200GS engine rebuild
« Reply #10 on: May 30, 2013, 01:36:07 pm »
OK< I finally managed to get all the parts together, and I am busy re assembling the lot.

Some notes on buying parts. This would probably apply to most makes.

1. Take the manual and go through each page to get what you need
2. Even then you will probably not get everything. Allow for some extra time.
3. BMW took about 3 weeks to source the parts locally. With constant reminders from me.
4. I decided to add the conrods to the crank, and found out that only 2 bearing shells were supplied. BMW only supplies 1 shell per box, and not 2 as per everybody else.
5. I got lucky and got 2 shells from the other local BMW shop. Luckily I took the sample box, as the were going to supply me with roller bearings to fit as big ends. As the guy gave me the correct bearings, he asked how I decided to get the "red" shells. I asked what do you mean red shells. Did not know there were different colours. He said there were blue ones as well. My next question was the obvious, "what is the difference?" His answer was the obvious " Don't know" . So I called the previous shop which I gave my VIN number to, to try and find out why they got me the red bearings. His obvious answer: "I told him I wanted the red ones, as I saw the red colouring on my old bearings."  By now I was seriously worried. I looked up all over Google, and found that the red bearings are standard, and the blue bearings are +0.25mm. All my components measured within original wear limits, but I would have cut the crank if I had known.
6. If the manual says "DO NOT re use bolts" then do not re use bolts. Like the conrod bolts. It says so clearly in the manual.  Unfortunately I did not read that far during the dismantling, but I read that on the assembly. Needless to say, that both dealerships that provided me big end bearings failed to mention this. Now I am without these and have to carry on until after the weekend. I called, and the are only available ex JHB, and possibly 2 days. Luckily You can do the conrods after the motor is back in the bike.
7. So, the parts are expensive due to the cost of stock keeping. But do not expect to see any stock at your local dealership. Even when you sit with the parts salesman and go through the manual, do not expect to get all the parts you need. And do not expect them to guide you.
8. May faith in dealerships took a further knock with this. I could only imagine the mechanic starting the assembly, and seeing he did not have the conrod bolts, just using the old ones. This would have resulted in an exploding motor about 5000kms down the line. Just out of warranty.
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Offline Pleco

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Re: BMW 1200GS engine rebuild
« Reply #11 on: May 30, 2013, 01:37:39 pm »
Some pics through to current stage.

Sorry about the quality. It was bright outside, stuffing up the backlighting.

Box of spares. About a shoebox full.



Damage to the wallet. About $850 USD.



Biggest of the many pieces of welding slag found when cleaning the casings. (one corner was welded where bashplate came off)











Gearbox added:



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Offline Pleco

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Re: BMW 1200GS engine rebuild
« Reply #12 on: May 30, 2013, 01:38:38 pm »
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pekkavee 
Are you sure about that? Red and blue. BMW Max Fiche says red is cover side and blue is rod side. Only the part number tells which are +0,25 mm. http://www.maxbmwmotorcycles.com/fic...6&rnd=08102012 Engine picture #11_2806 Pekka
You'll give me a heart attack here.

Anybody else with info? The BMW guy here supplied me standard bearings, which according to him is red.
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Offline Pleco

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Re: BMW 1200GS engine rebuild
« Reply #13 on: May 30, 2013, 01:39:23 pm »
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pekkavee 
Have a look into BMW Fax Fiche page and picture 11_2806 and part number #03 in the list. I don't know if it's right info there. Pekka
Pekka, I think you just saved me a lot of money.

I had a look at http://www.bmwmcchattanooga.com/show..._trimLevel=730

They concur with what you say.

The BMW parts guys are now in a bit of a spin. I gave them both an ear full. But now I am seriously worried about the main bearings and the rest of the suppliedc parts! The Fckrs!!!
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Offline Pleco

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Re: BMW 1200GS engine rebuild
« Reply #14 on: May 30, 2013, 01:40:42 pm »
Problem is that this dealership has been around for a while. The other dealership's parts salesman also seemed clueless.

Hearing the mechanic in the background say "The main bearings should be right" made me almost glad
That I am rebuilding this motor myself. Problem is that I cannot ask the professionals for any guidance or assistance as they seem clueless.

Should we now steer clear of anything out of motorplan?
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Offline Pleco

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Re: BMW 1200GS engine rebuild
« Reply #15 on: May 30, 2013, 01:41:53 pm »
OK, I am back on the rebuild. I was away working in Tanzania for 2 months, and while I was away, my big end bearings and conrod bolts arrived at BMW at least.

I put the new rings on the pistons, and by comparing the old rings, the 150k kms  of the motor can be seen.

Here is the old top ring:



And the new ring. You can see the ring gap difference:



The ring gap on the new ring is spot on, again confirming that the sleeve has basically no wear.

Getting the piston into the sleeve was a little difficult without a ring compressor, but with a bit of patience I got that done.



Head and sleeve back on:



Cam chain back in and lined up:



PLEASE NOTE: After assembling the lot, the left cam gear went on without any hassle. But when I tried to fit the righthand side one, the chain all of a sudden came up 10mm short. I knew I had a kink somewhere, but could not see it. No amount of turning the motor out could get the chain shortened. I called an independant BMW mechanic, which was very unsympathetic, as I did not have the motor done by him, and he told me that the kink gets caught between the gear and the back of the bottom chain slide. The only way to get the kink out, was to strip the motor again :eek1. I looked down the chain, and saw the kink there. The chain makes a little hump, with one link standing at 45 deg and the gear and slide had this caught in that spot, simply rolling it along like a little wave as you turn the motor over. :cry

I took it to a more sympathetic indie dealer, but after 2 hours of trying a lot of different things, he got to the same verdict. :cry My heart sank into my shoes, and I felt like saying F@CK.

I took the bike to my good old buddy Mark. He prodded around in there a bit, then took a large cable tie and fed it in between the gear inside the motor and the cam chain while I slowly turn the motor over. We turned the cable tie all around, until it got under the kink in the chain, and then pulled the chain hard on the top, causing it to slip all the teeth and pull the kink out. :clap

If the bloke was not so ugly, I could have kissed him.

If the above does not make a lot of sense, I will try and sketch it. But please make sure that the timing chain is smooth around the inside gears before you assemble the motor and put the whole thing back in the bike.

I will try and finish the bike now, and then that dreaded first start will be coming up.:eek1
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Offline Pleco

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Re: BMW 1200GS engine rebuild
« Reply #16 on: May 30, 2013, 01:43:26 pm »
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pekkavee 
Specs for the cap is 0,10-0,30 mm. It looks just right.

Pekka

As the man said above. Peculiar thing on the BMW is that you cannot buy oversized pistons and rings. You have to buy a piston and sleeve set. So no oversized rings to get things wrong.

But thanks for the heads up. As seen in previous posts the wrong big end bearings supply by bmw was pointed out to me and saved me a lot of headache. My posts are 2fold. One to share, and then also for you guys out there to help double check my work.

Almost there. I am crapping myself for that start though.
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Offline Pleco

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Re: BMW 1200GS engine rebuild
« Reply #17 on: May 30, 2013, 01:44:32 pm »
Quote from: mamm;20804722
Rooting here for a clean, first try start!

OK, the GS911 scan was clear. So tried to start up. Motor would not turn over :cry

Found 2 problems. Never tightened the earth lead properly behind the alternator and inadvertently fitted the old stuffed up KLR battery instead of the fully charged BMW battery. :wink:

Fixed that and started up. Massive noise on left cylinder. Stop and strip down left side to Cam to see what is causing the noise. When I took the chain tensioner out, I realise the little piston is missing :huh The noise came from the slack chain! Now I had a missing chain tensioner piston in the motor :cry

Looked down there, and saw it wedged inside the cylinder sleeve. I got very lucky and managed to fish it out with a magnet. :clap

Re assembled everything and put the chain guide on square, so that the piston would not fall straight through again.

Started up, and have a little more noise on the left side than the right side, with a lumpy idle. Soon as I rev up slightly, the motor smooths out immediately, but still a bit too noisy to my liking. I set the tappets, and am hoping they are a little on the loose side, causing the noise. Will scan again as well, to see where the lumpy idle is coming from. Throttle bodies might need a little synching.

Will be bleeding the rear brakes tonight. That will be a new experience as well.:lol3

Will update after the next scan again.
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Offline Pleco

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Re: BMW 1200GS engine rebuild
« Reply #18 on: May 30, 2013, 01:45:21 pm »
Timing chain tensioner
The farking chain tensioner piston jumped out again. Any ideas as to why?

It locates onto the slider, and puts it under light tension (spring loaded inside) Turning over by hand as well as starter motor seems to have it functioning normally.

I now filled the little cavity in the top of the piston with oil. Previously I left the cavity empty. Anybody ever replace the left tensioner, and had any issues with it?
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Re: BMW 1200GS engine rebuild
« Reply #19 on: May 30, 2013, 01:46:33 pm »
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlecoLB 
Theory: When torqueing the cam sprocket would this cause enough slack to let tensioner drop out? Did not re check the piston after torqueing.

Any ideas guy?

HOOORAAAYYYY!!!!!

Its ALIVE!!!!

Refitted the tensioner and swung it a bit on the starter motor. Did not have to re torque cam sprocket, so seems that everything went in fine without that.

Running smoother than ever. Engine is quieter than before.

Now to refit all the tupperware and go for a ride.
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