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Offline Beebop

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Re: BMW 1200GS engine rebuild
« Reply #40 on: May 30, 2013, 03:39:36 pm »
Tell me about that XR500R against the wall..
 

Offline Pleco

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Re: BMW 1200GS engine rebuild
« Reply #41 on: May 30, 2013, 03:46:42 pm »
Tell me about that XR500R against the wall..

Was a buddy's. Thankfully he sold it before I got a hold of it!  :imaposer:
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Offline capeklr

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Re: BMW 1200GS engine rebuild
« Reply #42 on: May 30, 2013, 03:49:19 pm »
Pleco at that milage I would also replace the oil pump.
 

Offline TVB

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Re: BMW 1200GS engine rebuild
« Reply #43 on: May 30, 2013, 03:53:37 pm »
Pleco at that milage I would also replace the oil pump.

+1, I have rebuild a car engine back in the days with 160 000km and was also advised by the engineering shop that the pump 'should' be ok.......and then I had to repeat my rebuild 20 000km and one year later..... do the pump mate
 

Offline Mzee

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Re: BMW 1200GS engine rebuild
« Reply #44 on: May 31, 2013, 06:48:28 am »
This is one areas I am lacking completely. But it is interesting and a lot of learning here.  Thanks for sharing this information.  BMW must be gnashing their teeth in anger.  This is is supposed to be mysterious grounds. :thumleft:
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Offline Pleco

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Re: BMW 1200GS engine rebuild
« Reply #45 on: May 31, 2013, 08:32:09 am »
This is one areas I am lacking completely. But it is interesting and a lot of learning here.  Thanks for sharing this information.  BMW must be gnashing their teeth in anger.  This is is supposed to be mysterious grounds. :thumleft:

Nothing mysterious here, but being sabotaged along the way makes it a dark art at the moment.

A certain Kraaifontein bmw mecchie was not too impressed with me either. Seemed like he does not want to give too much advice without compensation. Don't blame him, as it is his livelihood.

But BMW not supplying me the right parts is getting to me. I am not asking them how to put the bike together. The REPROM is brilliant with that. I am just asking them to help me get the right parts and then supply and sell them to me. :deal:
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Offline Pleco

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Re: BMW 1200GS engine rebuild
« Reply #46 on: May 31, 2013, 08:41:34 am »
OK, it seems my first port of call is to find out what colour the crank is. The best explanation I got about the colour codes is that BMW has a batch of cranks made at a time. They then measure the batch, and make a set of bearings to allow for any deviations during manufacture. So the bearings are matched to the cranks. The tolerances here are extremely small. The difference from one colour to the next is 0.02mm :eek7:

So, a 50th of a mm is the margin of error here.  :deal:

Here are some pics of the crank. There are 2x paint spots on there. You can pick only 3 colours Green, Yellow or White.  :deal: The first 2 pics are before cleaning up, the next 2 are after I washed them with some degreaser.







« Last Edit: May 31, 2013, 10:22:53 am by Pleco »
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Offline Pleco

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Re: BMW 1200GS engine rebuild
« Reply #47 on: May 31, 2013, 08:52:02 am »
OK, BMW supplied me with a set of green bearings, as per above crank pics and after I asked them VERY specifically, even calling out the workshop manager, if they were sure they are supplying me the correct bearings. I got told that the "should" be right. WTF! I could not supply them with a colour, but gave them my VIN nr. The parts salesman then said he supplied me according to the VIN. Now the Parts guy in Sbosch tells me that he cannot supply off the VIN, and needs the colour.

Below are pics of the journal and main bearings after 1000kms. Something is wrong here!







« Last Edit: May 31, 2013, 10:25:51 am by Pleco »
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Offline Duke916

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Re: BMW 1200GS engine rebuild
« Reply #48 on: May 31, 2013, 08:58:55 am »
This is one areas I am lacking completely. But it is interesting and a lot of learning here.  Thanks for sharing this information.  BMW must be gnashing their teeth in anger.  This is is supposed to be mysterious grounds. :thumleft:

Nothing mysterious here, but being sabotaged along the way makes it a dark art at the moment.

A certain Kraaifontein bmw mecchie was not too impressed with me either. Seemed like he does not want to give too much advice without compensation. Don't blame him, as it is his livelihood.

But BMW not supplying me the right parts is getting to me. I am not asking them how to put the bike together. The REPROM is brilliant with that. I am just asking them to help me get the right parts and then supply and sell them to me. :deal:

Seems the mechie is a bit insecure  :dousing:  In my line any info over the phone is for free and if you are willing to go and get yourself dirty then I will give you all the correct advice you are going to need. It is not as if everybody are now going to try and do their own major engine overhauls  :bueller:   Great read this and I take my hat off  for your guts to try this. It only makes me more determined to do such repairs myself rather than  put my trust in a  " suitably qualified " mechanic's  hands, only worry is the spares counters not knowing their inventory  ??? In them old days ( micro fische days ) the guys behind the counter were tops and could even cross reference their parts   :peepwall:
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Offline Pleco

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Re: BMW 1200GS engine rebuild
« Reply #49 on: May 31, 2013, 09:17:52 am »
OK, here are are the big end bearings. This is now another problem.  :dousing: When I stripped the bike, I had the crank Measured against the manual. It came back within factory spec. So I bought standard bearings. Now that I split the motor after 1000kms, I asked the same engineer to measure the bearing while its inside the conrod and compare to the crank. Maximum play is 0.075. I am exactly at that.

According to the engineering shops, the manufacturers supply the standard bearing on the small side. In hindsight, I should have bought over size and then have the crank matched up to the bearing, as I had done with the gudgeon pins and small ends. You cannot cut the crank and then buy the bearings, as it seems they will be at max tolerance then.  ???

Anyway, here is the pic of the big end bearings after 1000kms:

« Last Edit: May 31, 2013, 10:28:09 am by Pleco »
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Offline subie

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Re: BMW 1200GS engine rebuild
« Reply #50 on: May 31, 2013, 09:48:16 am »
I would have done it differently. Forget about BMW. Ask amongst the oke's in your area (Wilddogs) the name of a reputable
guy that does automotive engineering. Take the conrods,bearings and crank to him to have it proffesionally measured. He will then  advice you on the state of the crank ,do the crank (cut or just polish) and supply the correct bearings. This can not be done by eye or colour codes on the crank or by non trustworthy "engineers".
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Offline Pleco

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Re: BMW 1200GS engine rebuild
« Reply #51 on: May 31, 2013, 10:17:52 am »
I would have done it differently. Forget about BMW. Ask amongst the oke's in your area (Wilddogs) the name of a reputable
guy that does automotive engineering. Take the conrods,bearings and crank to him to have it proffesionally measured. He will then  advice you on the state of the crank ,do the crank (cut or just polish) and supply the correct bearings. This can not be done by eye or colour codes on the crank or by non trustworthy "engineers".

The problem is getting the right bearings from BMW. As I said, the tolerances are a 50th of a mm, so I agree fully on this. I have been recommended an engineer, so I will visit him as soon as I can get a gap.

In the meantime, I will step on every mine in this minefield it seems. At least I can point them out to other dogs along the way.

What is extremely worrying about this, is the ignorance on BMW's side. And they are working on these bikes!
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Offline the_BOBNOB

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Re: BMW 1200GS engine rebuild
« Reply #52 on: May 31, 2013, 10:32:52 am »
my brother in law is having the same problems only for a lot more $$$

heard a noise

took the bike in

3 months later got the bike back cost him upwards of R20k+

had the bike for 1 day - another noise appeared bike went back

now they want another R20k+
 

Offline spyker

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Re: BMW 1200GS engine rebuild
« Reply #53 on: May 31, 2013, 10:43:04 am »
my brother in law is having the same problems only for a lot more $$$

heard a noise

took the bike in

3 months later got the bike back cost him upwards of R20k+

had the bike for 1 day - another noise appeared bike went back

now they want another R20k+

Eina! What was the first noise?
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Offline Pleco

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Re: BMW 1200GS engine rebuild
« Reply #54 on: May 31, 2013, 10:43:50 am »
my brother in law is having the same problems only for a lot more $$$

heard a noise

took the bike in

3 months later got the bike back cost him upwards of R20k+

had the bike for 1 day - another noise appeared bike went back

now they want another R20k+

The above happened to me before, so I lost all trust in any mechanics. I rather F@ck it up myself.  :biggrin: But I had some very good successes before. Landy V8, VW 18CLI, Tazz 1300, KLR 650, KLE400 etc. But on all these, there was enough schoolwork done by other people before me.

This time, I am the pioneer and not the settler it seems.  :biggrin:
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Offline the_BOBNOB

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Re: BMW 1200GS engine rebuild
« Reply #55 on: May 31, 2013, 10:56:44 am »
my brother in law is having the same problems only for a lot more $$$

heard a noise

took the bike in

3 months later got the bike back cost him upwards of R20k+

had the bike for 1 day - another noise appeared bike went back

now they want another R20k+

Eina! What was the first noise?

Was also bearings, which they then replaced took them forever.

Not sure what the new noise is.

I have zero trust in mechanics at the moment.

I have tried numerous mechanics and everytime I have been screwed.

They take forever - do a halfass job that you need to have redone anyway.

I'm at the point that I do everything myself - I spend the money and buy the tools I need and I know things are done right.

My Dakar has not seen a dealer workshop in 40 000km and its running better than ever.
 

Offline fixit

Re: BMW 1200GS engine rebuild
« Reply #56 on: May 31, 2013, 11:35:17 am »
Well done Pleco  :thumleft:

I didn't read every post, but it seems you know motors and almost make it sound easy to do.
Please also post some of your hick-ups, where special tools or special procedures are needed, just in case there are some other back yarders wanting to do the same.

I missed one or two points here? What was the actual cause of the bearing failure. Run without oil or what?
 

Offline Pleco

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Re: BMW 1200GS engine rebuild
« Reply #57 on: May 31, 2013, 11:46:53 am »
my brother in law is having the same problems only for a lot more $$$

heard a noise

took the bike in

3 months later got the bike back cost him upwards of R20k+

had the bike for 1 day - another noise appeared bike went back

now they want another R20k+

Eina! What was the first noise?

Was also bearings, which they then replaced took them forever.

Not sure what the new noise is.

I have zero trust in mechanics at the moment.

I have tried numerous mechanics and everytime I have been screwed.

They take forever - do a halfass job that you need to have redone anyway.

I'm at the point that I do everything myself - I spend the money and buy the tools I need and I know things are done right.

My Dakar has not seen a dealer workshop in 40 000km and its running better than ever.

+1000

I know an ex aircraft engineer that only works on Rover V8s. I will take my motor there any day. But the toppie is closing in on 70. If he stops his work, there is nobody to replace him.

Ask around at the car dealerships. They don't work on motors anymore they install a new one from the factory. Too many comebacks. For whatever the reason.

But where does this leave us? Will bike and car ownership only be for people that can afford new with motorplans, with secondhand cars simply not worth the risk?
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Offline Pleco

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Re: BMW 1200GS engine rebuild
« Reply #58 on: May 31, 2013, 11:59:51 am »
Well done Pleco  :thumleft:

I didn't read every post, but it seems you know motors and almost make it sound easy to do.
Please also post some of your hick-ups, where special tools or special procedures are needed, just in case there are some other back yarders wanting to do the same.

I missed one or two points here? What was the actual cause of the bearing failure. Run without oil or what?


Not exactly sure what caused the initial failure, but lack of oil will be a most likely bet. It was interesting though that only the big ends failed. The other bearings were worn, but normal for the 150k kms. Piston rings were a little shot as well, but bike did not use any oil nor did it smoke at all.

I was absolutely daunted about this job, but found it easier than expected. Stripping down the motor the second time was about 3 hours from starting with the complete bike to splitting the motor.

The special motor locking tool, I substituted with an 1/4 inch socket extension. The only difficult part was getting the main pulley off the crank. The second time round, I bought a proper 2 leg puller and it was a breeze.

Obviously you need some proper tools here, and 3 torque wrenches to cover all the torque ranges properly.

PS, how is the Landy coming along?
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Offline fixit

Re: BMW 1200GS engine rebuild
« Reply #59 on: May 31, 2013, 02:13:25 pm »
Just got the last door back from sand blasting today. Off to galvanizing on Monday. Still have quite a bit to do. All small things. Finding parts are really a problem.

Looking at the bearings tells me that it was due to oil startvation. It's almost a replica of my motor failure. My bearings ceased on the crank and then turned in the rods. I rode it like that for a year before I coudn't handle the clacking sound anymore... :biggrin: I bought the bike like that.

It wasn't actually that bad, believe it or not. Got a moer of skrik when opened the motor though.

These motors are quite similar, so I assume you can just surface grind that oil pump and re-use it? Did mine about 6 years back and still no problem today.

As for the crank, you can also have it cut if need be. Everyone told me that you can't, but mine is still running perfectly. Not sure how many kilo's I've done since.