Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register

Author Topic: did ktm make a big mistake ???  (Read 2666 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Rough Rider

  • Grey hound
  • ****
  • Bike: Husqvarna (all models)
    Location: Western Cape
  • Posts: 5,024
  • Thanked: 52 times
  • Hang time
Re: did ktm make a big mistake ???
« Reply #60 on: June 28, 2013, 01:06:51 pm »
I heard an unsubstantiated rumour of something in the 800 class coming next year?

Maybe they're super impressed with that spiffy parallel-twin they got with their Husqvarna purchase.

They did not get the parallel twin, that went back to BMW together will the 450, 511 and 650 BMW engines   :deal:
Current rides: 2015 WR250F / 2016 690R / 2017 701SM
 

Offline Mooch

Re: did ktm make a big mistake ???
« Reply #61 on: June 28, 2013, 01:16:40 pm »
I think there is DEFINATELY a gap. Lets see what they bring to fill it.... Hope they keep it simple.
If in doubt, flat out.
 

Offline Toors

Re: did ktm make a big mistake ???
« Reply #62 on: June 28, 2013, 01:31:39 pm »
I think you guys are all missing the plot, yes a 990 R is better off-road (maybe -  I believe that other than the slightly reduced ground clearance the 1190 is better balanced and has vastly improved turning circle - and yes you have to replace the rims with more off-road bias rims - but you had to do this on the 990's in any event) than a 1190 R,  but think about it this way:

  BMW's new F800GS Adventure weighs 230 kg and the KTM weighs ... 230kg - you therefor get a 1190 bike that in essence is as easy to ride in the off-road stuff as the 800 competitors (the new F800 even comes with WP suspension - yes BMW is buying their suspension from KTM.  So a 1190 equal to the size of a 800 - that does not sound like a mistake to me ;)

  According to KTM's production plans (leaked about 2 years ago) a 800 - 890cc (probably be a 850 demarcated as a 890) KTM is definitely on the cards.  If the terrain is to tough for a competent rider on a 1190 the chances is that he would have exactly the same problems on a 990.

Then there is always a 690....
« Last Edit: June 28, 2013, 01:36:22 pm by Toors »
KTM 350 XCF-W
KTM 1050 Adv
Silent Submerge N-19 Saltwater
  "Those who say it can't be done, should get out of the way of those who is already doing it..."  Sheck Exley
 

Offline MM

Re: did ktm make a big mistake ???
« Reply #63 on: June 28, 2013, 01:37:52 pm »
I agree Toors. Mostly all the guys commenting on the 1190 have no clue what they are talking about. Own one first before giving everyone else advice about the bike   :laughing4:
 

Offline Mooch

Re: did ktm make a big mistake ???
« Reply #64 on: June 28, 2013, 02:02:05 pm »
I agree Toors. Mostly all the guys commenting on the 1190 have no clue what they are talking about. Own one first before giving everyone else advice about the bike   :laughing4:

This is not about the 1190  :deal:.
Its about having a mid size, and hopefully an even Smaller and LIGHTER bike than the 1190 (even though the 1190 is very light for its class!) but with longer legs than a 690. It would need to be lighter and better than the 800GS though!
If in doubt, flat out.
 

Offline 2StrokeDan

  • a Man of Character
  • Worshond
  • ***
  • Bike: KTM 690 Adventure
    Location: Western Cape
  • Posts: 25,958
  • Thanked: 2146 times
  • Slim like Bill, straight like Steve
Re: did ktm make a big mistake ???
« Reply #65 on: June 28, 2013, 10:57:02 pm »
The answer; own the 1190 for all your tar and easy-peasy dirt work, and a 690 for hard-core touring.
For all the wailing on here about how much better the 990 is off-road, it's still a pig most technical places. And also falls too expensively.
 

Offline T Rex

  • Race Dog
  • ***
  • Bike: BMW R1200GS Adventure
    Location: Gauteng
  • Posts: 1,894
Re: did ktm make a big mistake ???
« Reply #66 on: June 28, 2013, 11:04:21 pm »
Even though I have two BMW boxers  ( GS and GSA), I think the 990 is an awesome bike.
 

Offline Brandt

  • Race Dog
  • ***
  • Bike: Honda XL650V Transalp
    Location: Gauteng
  • Posts: 4,496
  • Thanked: 1 times
Re: Re: Re: did ktm make a big mistake ???
« Reply #67 on: June 29, 2013, 09:45:20 am »
I think you guys are all missing the plot, yes a 990 R is better off-road (maybe -  I believe that other than the slightly reduced ground clearance the 1190 is better balanced and has vastly improved turning circle - and yes you have to replace the rims with more off-road bias rims - but you had to do this on the 990's in any event) than a 1190 R,  but think about it this way:

  BMW's new F800GS Adventure weighs 230 kg and the KTM weighs ... 230kg - you therefor get a 1190 bike that in essence is as easy to ride in the off-road stuff as the 800 competitors (the new F800 even comes with WP suspension - yes BMW is buying their suspension from KTM.  So a 1190 equal to the size of a 800 - that does not sound like a mistake to me ;)

  According to KTM's production plans (leaked about 2 years ago) a 800 - 890cc (probably be a 850 demarcated as a 890) KTM is definitely on the cards.  If the terrain is to tough for a competent rider on a 1190 the chances is that he would have exactly the same problems on a 990.

Then there is always a 690....
Make sense

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2
 

Offline ilikemybike

  • Pack Dog
  • **
  • Bike: BMW R1200GS Adventure
    Location: Western Cape
  • Posts: 157
Re: did ktm make a big mistake ???
« Reply #68 on: June 29, 2013, 01:50:13 pm »
did ktm make a big mistake removing the 990 from its lineup ???

they now have the 690 and the 1190 and nothing in between  :-\

with bmw bringing out the F800GS Adventure i think they will be taking a lot of sales on that model with nothing from ktm competing in that same market segment ???

KTM = Kronreif's Terrible Mistake, so daars jou antwoord- short n sweet :pot: :ricky:
"  Love All - Trust Few - Do wrong to none  "
 

Offline Distronium

  • Pack Dog
  • **
  • Bike: AJS (all models)
    Location: United Kingdom
  • Posts: 391
  • Thanked: 1 times
Re: did ktm make a big mistake ???
« Reply #69 on: June 30, 2013, 10:32:31 am »
Did KTM make a mistake?

An interesting question. I have been wondering if its just the KTM 990 owners that have asked that?

In SA from our view point where we have so many dirt roads to ride and who love riding on the dirt, from our view point it looks like it. But as has stated before:

Look at where the largest market is.
Look at what type of riding they do.
Look at how much access they have to dirt roads.
Look at the sales figures of the GS and GSA.

I am surprised KTM did not bring out the bike sooner. It makes good business sense to do what they did. The 990 was not competition for the GS. They are not in the same class. If you have ridden both that becomes apparent. They are so different in what they do.

Big DS bikes are road bikes that can go off-road. But most riders that buy big DS bikes don't take them off road. So why continue to make a bike that is over 200kg, that is so off-road focused and niche? When u can have access to such a bigger market by changing what you produce.

Unfortunately the few of us that want what the 990 does, is niche.  So we are unhappy they did away with the 990.

We hope they bring out an 800 that is more off-road focused.  But look at the new 800 from BMW. Its a heavy bike. How off-road focused is that? But how many people will buy it an not take it off-road?

BMW are really good at marketing these aggressive, off-road, rugged, adventurous looking bikes to a public that never take them off-road. Same with 4x4s. How many 4x4s get taken off-road?  They sell an image and a lifestyle, that emotionally people want to be part of, but not necessarily want to physically take part in. It's easier to live vicariously through someone else's experiences than to do it yourself.

The 1190 is a brilliant bike. So is the GS, the s10 etc. but they are heavy bikes and are a lot more hard work off-road than a lighter bike. Even the 990 can get heavy going. It's not a light bike either.

So for me they are not my ideal bike. For me it's a pity the big DS market is moving to more tar focused bikes. But that is where the market is.

If ktm brought out a 150kg bike that was dirt focused and looked like a 990 (I love the 990s looks). That had all the latest electronics ( I feel it makes the bike safer when on tar. A mighty pain off-road tho). That would be ideal for me.

I suspect my next bike will be the 690 with a Dakar conversion. That's about as close it will get. If I find it comfortable enough to be able to tour on it. Will see. ;)

But the more I ride off-road...lighter and more nimble is making increasing sense. Especially cause I ride solo.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2013, 10:35:25 am by Distornium »
 

Offline plonker

Re: did ktm make a big mistake ???
« Reply #70 on: July 01, 2013, 03:18:28 pm »
I don't think KTM will use the Rotax/BMW now Husky 900 motor as the 800/900 KTM has been in development for quite a while (probably 3 yrs) and they have only bought out Husky in the last few months.I guess negotiations where on for longer but me thinks it will be a V.
I hear it will have a shaft drive and comfortable seat...........................only joking :lol8:
« Last Edit: July 01, 2013, 03:19:40 pm by plonker »