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Torque specs oil change
« on: July 03, 2013, 02:33:37 pm »
Are these settings correct ? 60 Nm is alot for a drain plug !
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Offline jagter

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Re: Torque specs oil change
« Reply #1 on: July 03, 2013, 03:22:02 pm »
Sounds ridiculously high.  I wouldn't do it if I was you.

Just use a new washer and turn until tight enough. Not sure how valid torque values are for a sump plug anyway as the threads are full of oil?





 

Offline BiG DoM

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Re: Torque specs oil change
« Reply #2 on: July 03, 2013, 03:23:12 pm »
Personally I use my elbow spec for drain plugs - have seen too many stripped using a torque wrench. These are not load bearing bolts and do not need torquing IMHO. Also they are inevitably oily threads which lubricated them and then the spec goes out the window anyway and they end being stripped.  :eek7:
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Re: Torque specs oil change
« Reply #3 on: July 03, 2013, 03:23:55 pm »
On my 450 Honda torque specs were something like 20 Nm ! Although smaller bolts I can't see one going that high for aluminium.
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Re: Torque specs oil change
« Reply #4 on: July 03, 2013, 03:28:55 pm »
Personally I use my elbow spec for drain plugs - have seen too many stripped using a torque wrench. These are not load bearing bolts and do not need torquing IMHO. Also they are inevitably oily threads which lubricated them and then the spec goes out the window anyway and they end being stripped.  :eek7:
I here you, I always serviced my bikes like that. Then I got a torque wrench and became obsessed with going according to the manual. Must say on the Honda it worked great, but I do not trust these specs on the 610.
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Offline BiG DoM

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Re: Torque specs oil change
« Reply #5 on: July 03, 2013, 03:32:01 pm »
Just do not do it! I just stripped a front wheel axle bolt using the stated spec - stupid also as it is not load bearing ... the pinch bolts hold the axle that bolt just pulls it in. And that faarking alu thing is moer expensive - same as BMW etc but silly money ... like R150+ for a bolt!
« Last Edit: July 04, 2013, 02:13:07 pm by BiG DoM »
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Offline alanB

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Re: Torque specs oil change
« Reply #6 on: July 03, 2013, 06:53:30 pm »
Ja just use your built-in torque wrench, the moment you feel the (NEW!!!!) crush washer squash, that's tight enough! 

That's the way I do it both on my car and bike and it works just fine that way.  Never had a leak or any other problem.

I dont know why OEM's specify these ludicrous torques for every little bolt on a bike/car  - I think who ever draw's up the specs uses the theoretical yield strength of the threads under ideal conditions or something - enters that into a spreadsheet and which spits out a set of torques for the manual  >:(  What ever they do its bloody stupid!  Because I have heard countless stories of people diligently following the torque specs and then inflicting serious damage on their bikes/cars.

There are a few bolts that need to be super tight, but not many on any bike or car.
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Offline swart skaap

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Re: Torque specs oil change
« Reply #7 on: July 03, 2013, 07:23:50 pm »
No one wants to fit a new copper washer with every oil change.

Use your torque wrench and torque it to 20NM seeing as it's a quality wrench.
I never use my "built-in torque wrench" for those important bolts; if it strips it's lots of pain to have it fixed.

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Offline BiG DoM

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Re: Torque specs oil change
« Reply #8 on: July 03, 2013, 07:45:31 pm »
No one wants to fit a new copper washer with every oil change.

Use your torque wrench and torque it to 20NM seeing as it's a quality wrench.
I never use my "built-in torque wrench" for those important bolts; if it strips it's lots of pain to have it fixed.

Your logic escapes me?  ::)  A  new copper washer is a small expense - you can also heat it to anneal and reuse if you do not have a spare.
You are less likely to strip a bolt if tightened by an experienced hand than with a preset torque wrench on an oiled thread. A drain plug as I have said is not load bearing and only really needs a decent nip on a copper or brass washer. How many drain plugs have you ever seen fall out?? ... and stripped ??  :eek7:
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Offline alanB

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Re: Torque specs oil change
« Reply #9 on: July 03, 2013, 07:47:37 pm »
No one wants to fit a new copper washer with every oil change.

Use your torque wrench and torque it to 20NM seeing as it's a quality wrench.
I never use my "built-in torque wrench" for those important bolts; if it strips it's lots of pain to have it fixed.

???

Not changing a R5 copper washer is the start of the problem IMO.  Because then you tend to over tighten it to make sure it seals.

But its your bike so you do what you think best!

The point I was trying to make when I referred to "built in" torque wrench is to be gentle.  You dont have to apply a lot of torque before you feel the (NEW  :biggrin:) washer squash, its probably a lot less than 20Nm and certainly not enough to damage the threads!  

If you just blindly heave on the thing without feeling what's happening then thats when you strip the threads.

Of course with a used washer that's already been crushed, well...
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Offline swart skaap

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Re: Torque specs oil change
« Reply #10 on: July 03, 2013, 09:37:12 pm »
No one wants to fit a new copper washer with every oil change.

Use your torque wrench and torque it to 20NM seeing as it's a quality wrench.
I never use my "built-in torque wrench" for those important bolts; if it strips it's lots of pain to have it fixed.

Your logic escapes me?  ::)  A  new copper washer is a small expense - you can also heat it to anneal and reuse if you do not have a spare.
You are less likely to strip a bolt if tightened by an experienced hand than with a preset torque wrench on an oiled thread. A drain plug as I have said is not load bearing and only really needs a decent nip on a copper or brass washer. How many drain plugs have you ever seen fall out?? ... and stripped ??  :eek7:
I have seen quite a couple bikes with stripped drain plug threads, ESPECIALLY on the poor sand cast motors manufactured by KTM and Husky.

The amount of strain sensed by "the experienced hand" (which sidetrack doesn't really have) will equal the amount of strain sensed by a torque wrench due to the "oiled threads"...
Get it?

What you are suggesting is dangerous and I will bet my bottom dollar that you will not cover the costs in the event of a stripped thread due to Sidetrack's torquing by hand.

Also, torque specs are very important on these kinds of bolts due to the metallurgical differences between the case and the bolt. They both expand and contract at different rates and in the case of the KTM RFS motors for instance, causes bolt creep.  

Jacques, moenie die ding met jou hand torque nie, vind eerder uit wat die korrekte hoeveelheid moet wees, want 60 is dit verseker nie.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2013, 11:13:08 pm by swart skaap »

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Offline swart skaap

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Re: Torque specs oil change
« Reply #11 on: July 03, 2013, 09:42:45 pm »
Sidetrack is my buddy and no offence to him, but he actually asked Runner if one should turn anti-clockwise to loosen a bolt.
 :biggrin:

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Offline Pistonpete

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Re: Torque specs oil change
« Reply #12 on: July 03, 2013, 09:49:59 pm »
Some aluminium washers are great (like fibre washers but they both crap) however you cannot beat an annealed copper washer or copper crush washer (disposable)...one only has to nip it in....your ten month old daughter could crerate the force to tighten... ;)
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Offline BiG DoM

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Re: Torque specs oil change
« Reply #13 on: July 03, 2013, 10:03:50 pm »
Sidetrack is my buddy and no offence to him, but he actually asked Runner if one should turn anti-clockwise to loosen a bolt.
 :biggrin:

I am surprised you know the difference but then you know intimate scientific facts about metallurgy. To the contrary what I was suggesting is not "dangerous" but conservative and informed advice given from 40 years of wrenching my bikes. Get it? Vokvoort.
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Re: Torque specs oil change
« Reply #14 on: July 03, 2013, 10:30:46 pm »
Dudes I have a torque wrench and it is flippen accurate (calibrated and verified), if we could just confirm the torque specs I would much rather torque them even if I set it to slightly less than recommended. Surely 60 Nm is not right, I have googled but have not found confirmation.
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Offline swart skaap

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Re: Torque specs oil change
« Reply #15 on: July 03, 2013, 10:31:57 pm »
Sidetrack is my buddy and no offence to him, but he actually asked Runner if one should turn anti-clockwise to loosen a bolt.
 :biggrin:

I am surprised you know the difference but then you know intimate scientific facts about metallurgy. To the contrary what I was suggesting is not "dangerous" but conservative and informed advice given from 40 years of wrenching my bikes. Get it? Vokvoort.
Haha! You are certainly known as the forum's gentleman!
Who needs torque wrenches, electron microscopes and human DNA based digital data storage anyway.

fuck-it! We can do it all by hand
 :biggrin:

This is off topic but uber: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324539304578259883507543150.html
« Last Edit: July 03, 2013, 10:32:29 pm by swart skaap »

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Re: Torque specs oil change
« Reply #16 on: July 03, 2013, 10:33:01 pm »
Sidetrack is my buddy and no offence to him, but he actually asked Runner if one should turn anti-clockwise to loosen a bolt.
 :biggrin:
In my defence that was about a counter balancer or flywheel nut on the DRZ I think, I know on some bikes they work in reverse so that the engine has less of a chance to work it loose
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Offline swart skaap

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Re: Torque specs oil change
« Reply #17 on: July 03, 2013, 10:37:02 pm »
Dudes I have a torque wrench and it is flippen accurate (calibrated and verified), if we could just confirm the torque specs I would much rather torque them even if I set it to slightly less than recommended. Surely 60 Nm is not right, I have googled but have not found confirmation.
20nm is die norm op meeste bikes en seinde dit redelik min is, is dit maklik om dit te oorskry met die hand.
Ek sou daar begin; daars geen kans dat jy met 20nm die thread sal seer maak nie en monitor maar net aanvanklik.

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Offline swart skaap

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Re: Torque specs oil change
« Reply #18 on: July 03, 2013, 10:38:03 pm »
Sidetrack is my buddy and no offence to him, but he actually asked Runner if one should turn anti-clockwise to loosen a bolt.
 :biggrin:
In my defence that was about a counter balancer or flywheel nut on the DRZ I think, I know on some bikes they work in reverse so that the engine has less of a chance to work it loose
haha! as jy so se
« Last Edit: July 03, 2013, 10:38:53 pm by swart skaap »

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Re: Torque specs oil change
« Reply #19 on: July 03, 2013, 10:43:22 pm »
Sidetrack is my buddy and no offence to him, but he actually asked Runner if one should turn anti-clockwise to loosen a bolt.
 :biggrin:
In my defence that was about a counter balancer or flywheel nut on the DRZ I think, I know on some bikes they work in reverse so that the engine has less of a chance to work it loose
haha! as jy so se
Hy het my al ingespan vir engine rebuilds, vra hom  ;) :biggrin:
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