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Offline barry13

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BEWARE !!
« on: July 14, 2013, 05:01:01 pm »
Was just busy organising finance for a nice 2007 BMW1200GSA from an honest guy who had owned the bike for the last 4 years when my finance company phoned to tell me that in 2009 the bike had an insurance claim of R135k on it !!  That would mean that just before he bought it (cash buyer) that bike had been virtually written off. Unfortunately the insurance history just notes the claim made with no details.  He was assured by the dealer he bought the bike from (dealer known to me) that the bike had not been in any accidents and in fact he had no problems in all the time he owned the bike.
Needless to say the finance was refused because of this and the seller can now only sell for cash and will have to notify any buyer of this history.
He is now taking it up with the dealer because obviously he will lose money now.
I hope he gets compensation and I also hope the dealer gets taken to task for knowingly selling a bike with this history.

Anyway buyer BEWARE !!
Owned at last count 56 bikes over the years.
 

Offline Kameel

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Re: BEWARE !!
« Reply #1 on: July 15, 2013, 12:10:38 pm »
Hmmm...may one say which dealer?

Had a similar thing happen to me once. Was looking for a BMW 650 Twin for my ex and managed to find one for sale at a rental company in Cape Town CBD. Luckily I had a good relationship with Hamman Motorrad in Tyger Valley who helped me to trace the VIN number.

It was discovered that this BMW 650Twin was involved in an accident with damage of over R70 000 on which Hamman Motorrad quoted for. It was insured by BMW insurance and Hamman only repaired/replaced certain items as instructed by the owner. So basically it could have been written off but was repaired by Hamman Motorrad. Obviously the seller decided to remain quiet about this. For obvious reasons I didn't buy this bike.

Are the dealers obliged to disclose such info as this?

2004 F650 GS Dakar (The X); 2004 BMW R1200 GS (GeelKameel); 2008 F650GS Twin (The X); 2008 BMW R1200GS (Silwervalk vir Biker Chick); 2009 BMW R1200GS (Pappa Smurf);
Currently 2010 BMW R1200 GSA (Mr Grey)
 

Offline BOER!

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Re: BEWARE !!
« Reply #2 on: July 15, 2013, 12:14:08 pm »
Hmmm...may one say which dealer?

Had a similar thing happen to me once. Was looking for a BMW 650 Twin for my ex and managed to find one for sale at a rental company in Cape Town CBD. Luckily I had a good relationship with Hamman Motorrad in Tyger Valley who helped me to trace the VIN number.

It was discovered that this BMW 650Twin was involved in an accident with damage of over R70 000 on which Hamman Motorrad quoted for. It was insured by BMW insurance and Hamman only repaired/replaced certain items as instructed by the owner. So basically it could have been written off but was repaired by Hamman Motorrad. Obviously the seller decided to remain quiet about this. For obvious reasons I didn't buy this bike.

Are the dealers obliged to disclose such info as this?

I don't know if he is legally obliged to disclose the info, but morally towards another biker I feel it's not on to hide facts from a prospective buyer.

It's the whole buying cow and getting zebra scenario all over again.  :biggrin:
My hart kom affie plaas, Waar die Wind en die Son en die Stilte my speelmaats was.

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Offline Operator

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Re: BEWARE !!
« Reply #3 on: July 15, 2013, 12:19:40 pm »
An insurance claim of R 135 000 on a brandnew (then) GSA is nothing.  It is sooo easy for this to
happen during an insurance claim, as the cost of parts for such a bike is ridiculously expensive.
It does however not mean that there is something wrong with the bike now. :deal:
Most of the accident damage on these bikes usually is just cosmetic.

Heck man.............I know of an incident a few years back where a GS was written off because
it tipped over on its sidestand. ;D  ;D ;D
Surely it had no structural damage.
 

Offline Snafu

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Re: BEWARE !!
« Reply #4 on: July 15, 2013, 12:23:38 pm »
If the repairs were done by a BMW dealer, it would not bother me. They would have replaced everything, and definitely no short cuts.
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Offline chickenbadger

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Re: BEWARE !!
« Reply #5 on: July 15, 2013, 12:24:34 pm »
Now, I must confess, I have recently filed an insurance claim for a run in with a bakkie outside one of the forum vendors shops, literally, bakkie was reversing and didnt see me, knocked me on the top box and I fell.

The quote from BMW to fix everything up (all cosmetic) was R39k. Now, its all cosmetic, and I get a new akro exhaust and other parts that I have long wanted.... Obviously i will disclose this to anybody should I ever sell Mzungu (at the moment I am just falling more and more in love with it every passing weekend), but seriously, all cosmetic, and Im getting everything fixed, I bought the bike second hand, and I think now I will have an even better bike then the one i purchased...
Everywhere is walking distance if you have the time. I dont have this luxury.
 

Offline Operator

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Re: BEWARE !!
« Reply #6 on: July 15, 2013, 12:30:09 pm »
Is the bike currently on finance with BMW Finance?

If so, just use the same finance company. If they financed it before, they can finance it again, as their
risk would not be different.
 

Offline corriej

Re: BEWARE !!
« Reply #7 on: July 15, 2013, 12:38:59 pm »
I was in an accident with a pedestrian a month ago.

I am insured with BMW. Anyway the damage was R58000 on the bike. This sounds a lot and it sounds like bike is badly damaged. However this is mostly cosmetic.

The plastic pins holding the instrument cluster broke off. The cluster works 100%. BMW is replacing the whole cluster at R10300.

Side panels * 2 = R4400 * 2 = R8800

Corrie
 

Offline chickenbadger

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Re: BEWARE !!
« Reply #8 on: July 15, 2013, 01:08:09 pm »
I was in an accident with a pedestrian a month ago.

I am insured with BMW. Anyway the damage was R58000 on the bike. This sounds a lot and it sounds like bike is badly damaged. However this is mostly cosmetic.

The plastic pins holding the instrument cluster broke off. The cluster works 100%. BMW is replacing the whole cluster at R10300.

Side panels * 2 = R4400 * 2 = R8800

Corrie

Exactly.

I have to replace a side mirror for the 800, R850 for the mirror (through insurance). Did a little hunting around and it turns out the Aprillia Duano have the exact same mirrors as the 800 (same factory, alles) and they are R240.00 from Aprillia imported.

BMW loves insurance companies, and if you are not insured, you have to pay for that relationship.
Everywhere is walking distance if you have the time. I dont have this luxury.
 

Offline BlueBull2007

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Re: BEWARE !!
« Reply #9 on: July 15, 2013, 08:57:20 pm »
Remind me never to start an insurance company ;D
Rally nut. What could possibly go wrong?
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Offline Tweets

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Re: BEWARE !!
« Reply #10 on: July 15, 2013, 09:12:54 pm »
NEVER INSURE WITH BMW. YOU GET BURNT BIG TIME
Borrow money from pessimists - they dont expect it back
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Offline Kuifie

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Re: BEWARE !!
« Reply #11 on: July 15, 2013, 09:17:05 pm »
Remind me never to start an insurance company ;D

And me to never buy a bmw ::)
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Offline fixit

Re: BEWARE !!
« Reply #12 on: July 15, 2013, 10:49:41 pm »
An insurance claim of R 135 000 on a brandnew (then) GSA is nothing.  It is sooo easy for this to
happen during an insurance claim, as the cost of parts for such a bike is ridiculously expensive.
It does however not mean that there is something wrong with the bike now. :deal:
Most of the accident damage on these bikes usually is just cosmetic.

Heck man.............I know of an incident a few years back where a GS was written off because
it tipped over on its sidestand.
;D  ;D ;D
Surely it had no structural damage.

The problem with them was the subframe for the rear footpegs were welded onto the main frame. When the bike gets dropped it bends the frame in that area and very difficult to straighten, so they rather write them off.
It happened to a guy here in E.L. Dropped his bike crossing a slippery causeway. Hardly any damage to bike but it was written off.
He was very fortunate though. The insurance offered him another bike with front end smash and 50% of the damaged, which he accepted.
 Ended up making quite a bit out of the deal, by selling off all the spares.
 

Offline BlueBull2007

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Re: BEWARE !!
« Reply #13 on: July 16, 2013, 04:46:24 am »
An insurance claim of R 135 000 on a brandnew (then) GSA is nothing.  It is sooo easy for this to
happen during an insurance claim, as the cost of parts for such a bike is ridiculously expensive.
It does however not mean that there is something wrong with the bike now. :deal:
Most of the accident damage on these bikes usually is just cosmetic.

Heck man.............I know of an incident a few years back where a GS was written off because
it tipped over on its sidestand.
;D  ;D ;D
Surely it had no structural damage.

The problem with them was the subframe for the rear footpegs were welded onto the main frame. When the bike gets dropped it bends the frame in that area and very difficult to straighten, so they rather write them off.
It happened to a guy here in E.L. Dropped his bike crossing a slippery causeway. Hardly any damage to bike but it was written off.
He was very fortunate though. The insurance offered him another bike with front end smash and 50% of the damaged, which he accepted.
 Ended up making quite a bit out of the deal, by selling off all the spares.

I can testify to that too, having lowsided my GS on some twisties. The rear footpeg was bent 45 degrees up with half the subframe. At the time there was no GS dealer in Peru, so I just rode it like that. One day when we were in the  playing bush mechanics  somewhere in the amazon on my wife's fuel pump, the guy in the local bike shop offered to straighten it for me: Three guys and I hung on the bike while a fourth bounced off a long steel bar through the sub frame did the trick. You should  see how far that frame can twist, its pretty impressive!

:paw:
« Last Edit: July 16, 2013, 04:47:17 am by BlueBull2007 »
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Offline barry13

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Re: BEWARE !!
« Reply #14 on: July 16, 2013, 06:29:53 am »
Unfortunately, even though the damage may have been minimal, the fact remains that the bike can't be financed. That reduces the number of potential buyers drastically and also impacts on a cash buyer because if he ever wants to sell the same history will come up.

It seems to me there should be some way of checking what the claim was exactly for and whether it was just cosmetic. Also what was actually done to repair it.
Owned at last count 56 bikes over the years.
 

Offline Mzee

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Re: BEWARE !!
« Reply #15 on: July 16, 2013, 06:42:39 am »
If a bike is fixed, I don't see the problem provided the owner makes disclosure.
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Offline corriej

Re: BEWARE !!
« Reply #16 on: July 16, 2013, 07:46:32 am »
I went through my repair quote again this morning.

These two stickers:



R 908.28 for the two of them.

I am glad BMW Insurance pays for them.

 

Offline silvrav

Re: Re: Re: BEWARE !!
« Reply #17 on: July 16, 2013, 08:29:57 am »
Unfortunately, even though the damage may have been minimal, the fact remains that the bike can't be financed. That reduces the number of potential buyers drastically and also impacts on a cash buyer because if he ever wants to sell the same history will come up.

It seems to me there should be some way of checking what the claim was exactly for and whether it was just cosmetic. Also what was actually done to repair it.

Why wouldnt the bike finance? I have financed over 10 vehicles with wesbank and their major 2 rules are that the vehicle mustnt be older then 10 years and not code3....so if the damage dont justify a code 3, and is fixed by bmw themselfs then financing shouldnt be a problem.
 

Offline jagter

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Re: BEWARE !!
« Reply #18 on: July 16, 2013, 09:01:43 am »
I also don't understand why the bank won't finance it.

I've seen a bike fixed by insurance. My dad's CBR.  Small fall at low speed, just some scratches on the fairing and a chafed grip.  Almost R40K of the insurance company's money later it was fixed. 

If something just looks a little remotely dodgy they replace the whole sub assembly. They basically replaced half the bike for some fairing scratches.  I wouldn't think twice about buying that bike.

 

Offline Stofdonkie

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Re: BEWARE !!
« Reply #19 on: July 16, 2013, 09:12:06 am »
With an 1150 you only need 3rd party insurance.

Carpe BM.