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Offline Rough Rider

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Re: 630 in SA ?
« Reply #20 on: August 12, 2013, 09:32:16 am »
Suspension wise you get what you pay for. There is no bike you can buy out the box, especially one that is competitively priced and marketed as a DS bike, which will have great suspension. It is one of the main areas where the manufactures cut costs. A good example is my 610 compared to say Alan's or BiG DoM's slightly newer ones, my forks are fitted with the compression adjusters from the factory those are not (a cost cutting exercise).

On the outside some of the stuff looks great but when you open it up it is pretty basic stuff. Also the manufacturers have to choose a spring rate that is suits an average weight, so if you don't fall into the average range you are automatically compromised.

The most expensive part of the Dakar bikes are the forks and shock. I heard that the forks and shock that the KTM customer teams use cannot be bought from KTM and are leased together with a technician. I also heard that the factory forks on Rossi's bike cost half a bar.

On paper the suspension on the 610 appears to be superior to the 630; there is more travel and the bike is lighter.  Both still have better suspension than the 690's though.

my 2c
« Last Edit: August 12, 2013, 09:33:24 am by Rough Rider »
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Offline Rough Rider

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Re: 630 in SA ?
« Reply #21 on: August 12, 2013, 09:36:01 am »
And the main reason I went for 630 (except for its exclusivity value  :lol8:) was that it was based on proven 610, yet I believed it improved on their known weakness - the camshaft chain wear (not sure if the record supports this now, but mine is close to 20 000 km and so far OK). And being DOHC, it also feels significantly smoother and stronger in higher revs - the bottom feels better on 610.

I have picked 630 over KTM 690, as it felt like proper single, and not like gutless twin, which is what 690 felt like to me (probably due to it's idiotic gear ratios).

That said, out of box 630 is quite disappointing and the claimed power I believe is a lie. However with a bit of work (in my case Power-Up kit, that I got for free, Arrow pipes with racing ECU, JD Power Tuner and drilled airbox with EHS filter) it has more than enough power for the average dude like me.






I could not agree more with your opinion on the 690 not feeling like a thumper. It was my main gripe with the one I owned, I referred to it as a peaky engine not a gutless twin though.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2013, 09:38:13 am by Rough Rider »
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Offline sidetrack

Re: 630 in SA ?
« Reply #22 on: August 12, 2013, 09:43:25 am »
I must agree with Alan - I love the 610's handling, is just so composed and inspires confidence.

Plus 100% ;)
Sounds great.
Don't want SideTrack to run out of "confidence" in September :) --or do you think that you will make it up that 4x4 track Jacques?

*edit* no, that track will be insane with 4 day's baggage. I certainly wont have the confidence on my CRF  ;)
I have a sneaky feeling that I might actually do be better on the 610  :eek7: No serious, on the CRF the shocks felt too stiff. Every single rock I hit the bike jumped off line and with the snappy throttle I was rarely in control. Same with my DRZ, I could ride that thing better offroad than either my 525 or CRF.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2013, 09:46:01 am by sidetrack »
Little by little, one travels far

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Ride reports :
http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=134175.0 Penge's pass and the Old Forest http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=9421.0 - Orange Atlantic adventure http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=7514.0 - 805 km day trip http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=20260.0 - East Cape Bash http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=70199.0 - Two KTM thumpers head north
 

Offline sidetrack

Re: 630 in SA ?
« Reply #23 on: August 12, 2013, 09:44:23 am »
And the main reason I went for 630 (except for its exclusivity value  :lol8:) was that it was based on proven 610, yet I believed it improved on their known weakness - the camshaft chain wear (not sure if the record supports this now, but mine is close to 20 000 km and so far OK). And being DOHC, it also feels significantly smoother and stronger in higher revs - the bottom feels better on 610.

I have picked 630 over KTM 690, as it felt like proper single, and not like gutless twin, which is what 690 felt like to me (probably due to it's idiotic gear ratios).

That said, out of box 630 is quite disappointing and the claimed power I believe is a lie. However with a bit of work (in my case Power-Up kit, that I got for free, Arrow pipes with racing ECU, JD Power Tuner and drilled airbox with EHS filter) it has more than enough power for the average dude like me.






I could not agree more with your opinion on the 690 not feeling like a thumper. It was my main gripe with the one I owned, I referred to it as a peaky engine not a gutless twin though.
But 690 owners reckon all other thumpers feels very slow in comparison, have never ridden a 690 myself. Guess they refer to top speed then and not putting around in first and second gear ?
« Last Edit: August 12, 2013, 09:45:32 am by sidetrack »
Little by little, one travels far

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Ride reports :
http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=134175.0 Penge's pass and the Old Forest http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=9421.0 - Orange Atlantic adventure http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=7514.0 - 805 km day trip http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=20260.0 - East Cape Bash http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=70199.0 - Two KTM thumpers head north
 

Offline Rough Rider

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Re: 630 in SA ?
« Reply #24 on: August 12, 2013, 09:45:48 am »
And the main reason I went for 630 (except for its exclusivity value  :lol8:) was that it was based on proven 610, yet I believed it improved on their known weakness - the camshaft chain wear (not sure if the record supports this now, but mine is close to 20 000 km and so far OK). And being DOHC, it also feels significantly smoother and stronger in higher revs - the bottom feels better on 610.

I have picked 630 over KTM 690, as it felt like proper single, and not like gutless twin, which is what 690 felt like to me (probably due to it's idiotic gear ratios).

That said, out of box 630 is quite disappointing and the claimed power I believe is a lie. However with a bit of work (in my case Power-Up kit, that I got for free, Arrow pipes with racing ECU, JD Power Tuner and drilled airbox with EHS filter) it has more than enough power for the average dude like me.






I could not agree more with your opinion on the 690 not feeling like a thumper. It was my main gripe with the one I owned, I referred to it as a peaky engine not a gutless twin though.
But 690 owners reckon all other thumpers feels very slow in comparison, have never ridden a 690 myself ?

They make all their power high up in the rev range.
Current rides: 2015 WR250F / 2016 690R / 2017 701SM
 

Offline sidetrack

Re: 630 in SA ?
« Reply #25 on: August 12, 2013, 09:48:12 am »
Suspension wise you get what you pay for. There is no bike you can buy out the box, especially one that is competitively priced and marketed as a DS bike, which will have great suspension. It is one of the main areas where the manufactures cut costs. A good example is my 610 compared to say Alan's or BiG DoM's slightly newer ones, my forks are fitted with the compression adjusters from the factory those are not (a cost cutting exercise).

On the outside some of the stuff looks great but when you open it up it is pretty basic stuff. Also the manufacturers have to choose a spring rate that is suits an average weight, so if you don't fall into the average range you are automatically compromised.

The most expensive part of the Dakar bikes are the forks and shock. I heard that the forks and shock that the KTM customer teams use cannot be bought from KTM and are leased together with a technician. I also heard that the factory forks on Rossi's bike cost half a bar.

On paper the suspension on the 610 appears to be superior to the 630; there is more travel and the bike is lighter.  Both still have better suspension than the 690's though.

my 2c
So the 2006 TE610 is the best of all time, FCR carb - compression adjusters and it's Husky yellow and blue  8) :biggrin:
« Last Edit: August 12, 2013, 09:48:47 am by sidetrack »
Little by little, one travels far

J.R.R Tolkien
Ride reports :
http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=134175.0 Penge's pass and the Old Forest http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=9421.0 - Orange Atlantic adventure http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=7514.0 - 805 km day trip http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=20260.0 - East Cape Bash http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=70199.0 - Two KTM thumpers head north
 

Offline BiG DoM

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Re: 630 in SA ?
« Reply #26 on: August 12, 2013, 09:49:39 am »

On paper the suspension on the 610 appears to be superior to the 630; there is more travel and the bike is lighter.  Both still have better suspension than the 690's though.

my 2c

RR I think you are looking for shyte here  ;D  Much of what you say is true but KTM has the best DS suspension out the box - some may even say great (I do not own an orange and never have, not to say I never will mind you ... but not looking at this stage). There is little to beat WP and yes I know there are variables even with WP that often need tweaking, but to claim the standard Marzocs are superior to the 690 WP's ... I have my doubts. I had Marzocs on my HP2 and had MP do all his magic on them and they were maybe 30% better than stock but no comparison to the WP's  that I eventually had Superfoxi sort out for me. I am happy with the Marzocs at present as he has set them up on my Husky. I think if you want the meneer you go WP and go to Hilton Haywood = after all he was THE KTM factory race WP guy in Europe for a number of years and knows them better than anyone else IMHO. Marzocs used to be tops ... I think they have not kept up to speed in R&D and the cost cutting shows.

My 3 cents  ;)
« Last Edit: August 12, 2013, 09:51:44 am by BiG DoM »
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Offline BiG DoM

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Re: 630 in SA ?
« Reply #27 on: August 12, 2013, 09:56:47 am »


They make all their power high up in the rev range.

[/quote]

Indeed - you cannot "putt around in 1st and 2nd gear" on the 690 ... the peaky engine and ridiculous close ratio box mitigate against it. This is one of the absolute beauties about the Husky ... being able to "putter" through the gnarly stuff.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2013, 11:35:30 am by BiG DoM »
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Offline BiG DoM

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Re: 630 in SA ?
« Reply #28 on: August 12, 2013, 10:01:26 am »
BTW - saw a nice TE610 on Scumtree a few days back - in CT - R53K I think ... could be negotiated down I guess. Know anyone looking.
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Offline Rough Rider

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Re: 630 in SA ?
« Reply #29 on: August 12, 2013, 10:02:08 am »


They make all their power high up in the rev range.

[/quote]

Indeed - you cannot "put around in 1st and 2nd gear" on the 690 ... the peaky engine and ridiculous close ratio box mitigate against it. This is one of the absolute beauties about the Husky ... being able to "putter" through the gnarly stuff.
[/quote]

The 690 is a short stroke fast revving high power engine while the 610 is a long stroke torque monster. It's that long stroke that causes the cam chain problems in my opinion.
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Offline BiG DoM

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Re: 630 in SA ?
« Reply #30 on: August 12, 2013, 10:05:27 am »
I think the auto cam chain tensioner contributes as well ... and like all chains you get different qualities ... some claim the newer ones are better???  Also fit the the APE manual tensioner when you replace the cam chain.  :thumleft: 
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Offline Rough Rider

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Re: 630 in SA ?
« Reply #31 on: August 12, 2013, 10:07:54 am »

On paper the suspension on the 610 appears to be superior to the 630; there is more travel and the bike is lighter.  Both still have better suspension than the 690's though.

my 2c

RR I think you are looking for shyte here  ;D  Much of what you say is true but KTM has the best DS suspension out the box - some may even say great (I do not own an orange and never have, not to say I never will mind you ... but not looking at this stage). There is little to beat WP and yes I know there are variables even with WP that often need tweaking, but to claim the standard Marzocs are superior to the 690 WP's ... I have my doubts. I had Marzocs on my HP2 and had MP do all his magic on them and they were maybe 30% better than stock but no comparison to the WP's  that I eventually had Superfoxi sort out for me. I am happy with the Marzocs at present as he has set them up on my Husky. I think if you want the meneer you go WP and go to Hilton Haywood = after all he was THE KTM factory race WP guy in Europe for a number of years and knows them better than anyone else IMHO. Marzocs used to be tops ... I think they have not kept up to speed in R&D and the cost cutting shows.

My 3 cents  ;)

I beg to differ, the bottom of the range WP stuff, as fitted to the 690, is the same crap as the rest. Have a look at the suspension travel on the 690.

I have a 950 SE with WP which is supposed to be a bit superior, due to the heritage of the bike. Believe me there is nothing special about the stock suspension on this bike, even after MP fiddled with it.
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Offline Rough Rider

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Re: 630 in SA ?
« Reply #32 on: August 12, 2013, 10:09:04 am »
I think the auto cam chain tensioner contributes as well ... and like all chains you get different qualities ... some claim the newer ones are better???  Also fit the the APE manual tensioner when you replace the cam chain.  :thumleft: 

But you still have a long narrow angle chain to deal with.
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Offline swart skaap

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Re: 630 in SA ?
« Reply #33 on: August 12, 2013, 10:42:12 am »
And the main reason I went for 630 (except for its exclusivity value  :lol8:) was that it was based on proven 610, yet I believed it improved on their known weakness - the camshaft chain wear (not sure if the record supports this now, but mine is close to 20 000 km and so far OK). And being DOHC, it also feels significantly smoother and stronger in higher revs - the bottom feels better on 610.

I have picked 630 over KTM 690, as it felt like proper single, and not like gutless twin, which is what 690 felt like to me (probably due to it's idiotic gear ratios).

That said, out of box 630 is quite disappointing and the claimed power I believe is a lie. However with a bit of work (in my case Power-Up kit, that I got for free, Arrow pipes with racing ECU, JD Power Tuner and drilled airbox with EHS filter) it has more than enough power for the average dude like me.






I could not agree more with your opinion on the 690 not feeling like a thumper. It was my main gripe with the one I owned, I referred to it as a peaky engine not a gutless twin though.
But 690 owners reckon all other thumpers feels very slow in comparison, have never ridden a 690 myself. Guess they refer to top speed then and not putting around in first and second gear ?
Can't you remember how those 690's went up that rock climb?
As you said, you could not ride your CRFx up the same climb where a 60 year old dude with a heart condition managed his 690?
I do believe that the 690 makes most of its power in the high rpm's, but believe me, I saw 1st hand how those things can climb.. and it was impressive.

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Offline swart skaap

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Re: 630 in SA ?
« Reply #34 on: August 12, 2013, 10:45:55 am »
I must agree with Alan - I love the 610's handling, is just so composed and inspires confidence.

Plus 100% ;)
Sounds great.
Don't want SideTrack to run out of "confidence" in September :) --or do you think that you will make it up that 4x4 track Jacques?

*edit* no, that track will be insane with 4 day's baggage. I certainly wont have the confidence on my CRF  ;)
I have a sneaky feeling that I might actually do be better on the 610  :eek7: No serious, on the CRF the shocks felt too stiff. Every single rock I hit the bike jumped off line and with the snappy throttle I was rarely in control. Same with my DRZ, I could ride that thing better offroad than either my 525 or CRF.
Well we could give it a shot.. I wouldn't mind testing the 14 tooth front sprocket.
Will certainly be an achievement; doing it with 4 days baggage + tools
 :biggrin:

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Re: 630 in SA ?
« Reply #35 on: August 12, 2013, 11:31:18 am »

On paper the suspension on the 610 appears to be superior to the 630; there is more travel and the bike is lighter.  Both still have better suspension than the 690's though.

my 2c

RR I think you are looking for shyte here  ;D  Much of what you say is true but KTM has the best DS suspension out the box - some may even say great (I do not own an orange and never have, not to say I never will mind you ... but not looking at this stage). There is little to beat WP and yes I know there are variables even with WP that often need tweaking, but to claim the standard Marzocs are superior to the 690 WP's ... I have my doubts. I had Marzocs on my HP2 and had MP do all his magic on them and they were maybe 30% better than stock but no comparison to the WP's  that I eventually had Superfoxi sort out for me. I am happy with the Marzocs at present as he has set them up on my Husky. I think if you want the meneer you go WP and go to Hilton Haywood = after all he was THE KTM factory race WP guy in Europe for a number of years and knows them better than anyone else IMHO. Marzocs used to be tops ... I think they have not kept up to speed in R&D and the cost cutting shows.

My 3 cents  ;)

I beg to differ, the bottom of the range WP stuff, as fitted to the 690, is the same crap as the rest. Have a look at the suspension travel on the 690.

I have a 950 SE with WP which is supposed to be a bit superior, due to the heritage of the bike. Believe me there is nothing special about the stock suspension on this bike, even after MP fiddled with it.


YEP .. Have to agree with you on that one --Hated the suspension on the KTM ---
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Offline BiG DoM

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Re: 630 in SA ?
« Reply #36 on: August 12, 2013, 11:35:01 am »
I think the auto cam chain tensioner contributes as well ... and like all chains you get different qualities ... some claim the newer ones are better???  Also fit the the APE manual tensioner when you replace the cam chain.  :thumleft: 

But you still have a long narrow angle chain to deal with.

granted.
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Offline Rough Rider

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Re: 630 in SA ?
« Reply #37 on: August 12, 2013, 11:40:26 am »

On paper the suspension on the 610 appears to be superior to the 630; there is more travel and the bike is lighter.  Both still have better suspension than the 690's though.

my 2c

RR I think you are looking for shyte here  ;D  Much of what you say is true but KTM has the best DS suspension out the box - some may even say great (I do not own an orange and never have, not to say I never will mind you ... but not looking at this stage). There is little to beat WP and yes I know there are variables even with WP that often need tweaking, but to claim the standard Marzocs are superior to the 690 WP's ... I have my doubts. I had Marzocs on my HP2 and had MP do all his magic on them and they were maybe 30% better than stock but no comparison to the WP's  that I eventually had Superfoxi sort out for me. I am happy with the Marzocs at present as he has set them up on my Husky. I think if you want the meneer you go WP and go to Hilton Haywood = after all he was THE KTM factory race WP guy in Europe for a number of years and knows them better than anyone else IMHO. Marzocs used to be tops ... I think they have not kept up to speed in R&D and the cost cutting shows.

My 3 cents  ;)

I beg to differ, the bottom of the range WP stuff, as fitted to the 690, is the same crap as the rest. Have a look at the suspension travel on the 690.

I have a 950 SE with WP which is supposed to be a bit superior, due to the heritage of the bike. Believe me there is nothing special about the stock suspension on this bike, even after MP fiddled with it.


YEP .. Have to agree with you on that one --Hated the suspension on the KTM ---

Did you know this, taken off another forum?

"As a guy that's worked with WP all the ways back to the White Power days, I can comfortably say that it's good suspension. Not great. Certainly not top shelf... and not even in the same ballpark as Íhlins. There's a reason why KTM doesn't even run their own product when they race."

« Last Edit: August 12, 2013, 11:40:58 am by Rough Rider »
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Offline BiG DoM

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Re: 630 in SA ?
« Reply #38 on: August 12, 2013, 11:43:57 am »
Is this Hilton? If it is it is interesting ... used to run them when he worked for them in Austria 2000-2008. Anyway he is not a WP agent here so may also play into the scenario ... in fact he is an agent for Marzocs  ;D along with Yacugar and Fox.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2013, 11:51:57 am by BiG DoM »
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Offline Rough Rider

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Re: 630 in SA ?
« Reply #39 on: August 12, 2013, 11:53:31 am »
Is this Hilton? If it is it is interesting ... used to run them when he worked for them in Austria 2000-2008. Anyway he is not a WP agent here so may also play into the scenario ... in fact he is an agent for Marzocs  ;D along with Yacugar and Fox.

No it came off Adventure Rider http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=885099
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