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Offline lecap

Re: BMW engin oil
« Reply #80 on: January 14, 2014, 09:30:14 am »
Nope no dropped margins,

Some dealers use 10W40(SUBSTANTIALLY CHEAPER @R80/lt) as apposed to the prescribed 5W40

So what was the story then with BMW telling us to ONLY use Castrol Power 1 Racing 5W40 else your clutch may fail and your warranty will be null and void. Now the dealers nullify your warranty by using ActEvo ???

The oil they used for my wife's LC was Castrol Power 1 Racing.  I am not sure which viscosity though.

Did BMW actually say that LeCap?  Or was it a dealer or two?  I am not tech expert, but I would be very surprised if the recommended 5W part of the viscosity was a world wide recommendation.

There was some info floating around where a BMW (factory) official stated that they can only approve the Castrol Power 1 racing 5W40 for use and this is the only oil which they guarantee not to cause any issues with the clutch. I think this was even linked early in this thread ???

The trend to lower viscosity engine oils is a general trend.
There is a number of good reasons to use lower viscosity oils:

A lower viscosity oil reduces cold start wear. Since it's thinner it will not be forced through the oil filter bypass for as long as a higher viscosity oil.
A lower viscosity oil causes less friction and thereby reduces fuel consumption. This might be marginal over a tank of fuel but it is noticeable over the lifetime of a vehicle or on the scope of fleet consumption.
Lower viscosity oil will make the plates in a wet clutch stick less and allow for quieter & smoother gear changes.
Low viscosity engine oils are readily available and good value for money - if purchased from the right supplier.
The claim that an engine will use more oil if you use a lower viscosity oil is a myth. Oil consumption is dependent on the amount of volatiles in the oil and on the design of the engine and in particular the crank case breather. If you can reduce oil consumption by using "thicker" oil you should rather get your engine reconditioned ::)

You can without any restrictions use an oil with a wider viscosity rating than what the manufacturer recommends (i.e. you can use 5W50, 10W50 or 5W40 if the manufacturer specifies 10W40) since a 10W50 oil will also fulfil the requirements for a 10W40. For obvious reasons you should not do the opposite.

At the end of the day the 5W oil IS lots better for your engine than the 10W. It does actually not make that much of a difference how cold your engine is when you turn the key and fire it up. The important point is it is COLD compared to the temperature where it performs best.

On the other end of the spectrum it makes very little difference if you use a 40 or 50 since the performance of both oils differs only marginally at the oil temperature in your engine. Please note there is a difference if you talk about your bike or your turbocharged diesel bakkie :D
Using different hot viscosity engine oils in summer and winter is utter rubbish since engine & oil temperature vary little with variations in ambient temperature.

Last but not least I think Castrol Power 1 Racing comes either as a 5W40 and 10W50. Castrol ActEvo 4T comes as 10W40.

And did I mention that I sell engine oil as per  BMW spec for the K50 SAE 5W40 API SM & JASO MA2 compliant & fully synthetic for R 72 per litre? Not Castrol though but Ravenol.
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Offline TheBear

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Re: BMW engin oil
« Reply #81 on: January 14, 2014, 09:48:22 am »
Nope no dropped margins,

Some dealers use 10W40(SUBSTANTIALLY CHEAPER @R80/lt) as apposed to the prescribed 5W40

So what was the story then with BMW telling us to ONLY use Castrol Power 1 Racing 5W40 else your clutch may fail and your warranty will be null and void. Now the dealers nullify your warranty by using ActEvo ???

The oil they used for my wife's LC was Castrol Power 1 Racing.  I am not sure which viscosity though.

Did BMW actually say that LeCap?  Or was it a dealer or two?  I am not tech expert, but I would be very surprised if the recommended 5W part of the viscosity was a world wide recommendation.

There was some info floating around where a BMW (factory) official stated that they can only approve the Castrol Power 1 racing 5W40 for use and this is the only oil which they guarantee not to cause any issues with the clutch. I think this was even linked early in this thread ???

The trend to lower viscosity engine oils is a general trend.
There is a number of good reasons to use lower viscosity oils:

A lower viscosity oil reduces cold start wear. Since it's thinner it will not be forced through the oil filter bypass for as long as a higher viscosity oil.
A lower viscosity oil causes less friction and thereby reduces fuel consumption. This might be marginal over a tank of fuel but it is noticeable over the lifetime of a vehicle or on the scope of fleet consumption.
Lower viscosity oil will make the plates in a wet clutch stick less and allow for quieter & smoother gear changes.
Low viscosity engine oils are readily available and good value for money - if purchased from the right supplier.
The claim that an engine will use more oil if you use a lower viscosity oil is a myth. Oil consumption is dependent on the amount of volatiles in the oil and on the design of the engine and in particular the crank case breather. If you can reduce oil consumption by using "thicker" oil you should rather get your engine reconditioned ::)

You can without any restrictions use an oil with a wider viscosity rating than what the manufacturer recommends (i.e. you can use 5W50, 10W50 or 5W40 if the manufacturer specifies 10W40) since a 10W50 oil will also fulfil the requirements for a 10W40. For obvious reasons you should not do the opposite.

At the end of the day the 5W oil IS lots better for your engine than the 10W. It does actually not make that much of a difference how cold your engine is when you turn the key and fire it up. The important point is it is COLD compared to the temperature where it performs best.

On the other end of the spectrum it makes very little difference if you use a 40 or 50 since the performance of both oils differs only marginally at the oil temperature in your engine. Please note there is a difference if you talk about your bike or your turbocharged diesel bakkie :D
Using different hot viscosity engine oils in summer and winter is utter rubbish since engine & oil temperature vary little with variations in ambient temperature.

Last but not least I think Castrol Power 1 Racing comes either as a 5W40 and 10W50. Castrol ActEvo 4T comes as 10W40.

And did I mention that I sell engine oil as per  BMW spec for the K50 SAE 5W40 API SM & JASO MA2 compliant & fully synthetic for R 72 per litre? Not Castrol though but Ravenol.


Thanks.  Excellent description which even someone who thinks he knows it all can understand.  :ricky:

You last sentence is the interesting one.  What is important, imho, is the blue text.  The underlined text is unimportant (excluding obvious weak quality). 

Just another question please.  The improvement 5W versus 10W.  Would that be very real, or would it be more a theoretical advantage over the life of an engine.
#33 #BRADICAL!
 

Offline TheBear

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Re: BMW engin oil
« Reply #82 on: January 14, 2014, 09:51:16 am »


This is why I often get into trouble here. One guy making a statement that some, unnamed dealers use 10W instead of 5W does not mean that BMW SA have decided that 10W is suddenly okay.  

Anyway, according to our invoice, Castrol Power 1 was used.  It doesn't state which viscosity.  Will have a chat with them next time I go past there.

LeCap, help me out here (not BMW or LC related, just in general).  I am not sure if my understanding is correct.  The "w" figure in the viscosity rates the viscosity of the oil when cold.  A 5W may therefore be great in SA, but useless on the Arrtic, or a 5W may be great for the Arctic, but in SA a 20W may well be fine?  Is this incorrect thinking?  

This one guy making a statement is as
Follows:
Owner's manual recommends 5W 40 Castrol Power 1 Racing
On my trip up to GP in December I stopped at SOVEREIGN BMW Bloemfontein who sells
Castrol Power 1 Racing 10W40 which they use in the K50 Gs's
So as I was on 5 W40 I declined.
Next stop was Bavarian Bmw Centurion who sells and used also the 10W40
Finally got Castrol Power1 Racing at R179/liter at Auto Alpina, Boksburg
 

It was not aimed at you as a person, but the fact remains, that you looked for oil and saw two dealers selling a specific oil.  This does not mean that BMW SA approved that oil for use in a K50 and that was the direction the discussion was going.  It shows how easily, something said on a forum, can become "fact" in a few days.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2014, 09:51:55 am by AMZ »
#33 #BRADICAL!
 

Offline lecap

Re: BMW engin oil
« Reply #83 on: January 15, 2014, 10:13:58 am »
...Just another question please.  The improvement 5W versus 10W.  Would that be very real, or would it be more a theoretical advantage over the life of an engine.

This is debatable. You can claim that it does not really matter if your oil circulates unfiltered on cold start - or if it circulates unfiltered for longer when using a higher viscosity oil - since the manufacturer has fitted an oil filter with a bypass valve to allow for that.

On the other hand you can say the oil filter bypass is there because it has to be there in case someone pours some 20W50 goo into the engine and starts it at -10C (Without the bypass you would have very little oil getting to where it's needed until the engine warms up).

I would not dare to claim that your engine will last longer if you use a 5W40 oil instead of a 10W40 and it would in any case be rather difficult to prove this.
What I can guarantee you on the other side is that using 5W40 instead of 10W40 will not shorten the service life of the engine.
What I can also guarantee is that the vast majority of wear in an engine occurs during cold start. Any means of reducing cold start wear will most likely give you an extended service life.

Add to this that I can buy Ravenol Motobike Ester 5W40 fully synthetic JASO MA compliant oil at pretty much the same price as I can buy semi synthetic Castrol ActEvo 4t 10W40 (also JASO MA) - and therefore sell it at the same price.
Both Castrol as well as Ravenol look back onto many decades of experience in the industry and both run their own labs and blend their products themselves.
A no brainer IMHO

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Offline Lord Knormoer

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Re: BMW engin oil
« Reply #84 on: January 15, 2014, 10:28:11 am »
...Just another question please.  The improvement 5W versus 10W.  Would that be very real, or would it be more a theoretical advantage over the life of an engine.

This is debatable. You can claim that it does not really matter if your oil circulates unfiltered on cold start - or if it circulates unfiltered for longer when using a higher viscosity oil - since the manufacturer has fitted an oil filter with a bypass valve to allow for that.

On the other hand you can say the oil filter bypass is there because it has to be there in case someone pours some 20W50 goo into the engine and starts it at -10C (Without the bypass you would have very little oil getting to where it's needed until the engine warms up).

I would not dare to claim that your engine will last longer if you use a 5W40 oil instead of a 10W40 and it would in any case be rather difficult to prove this.
What I can guarantee you on the other side is that using 5W40 instead of 10W40 will not shorten the service life of the engine.
What I can also guarantee is that the vast majority of wear in an engine occurs during cold start. Any means of reducing cold start wear will most likely give you an extended service life.

Add to this that I can buy Ravenol Motobike Ester 5W40 fully synthetic JASO MA compliant oil at pretty much the same price as I can buy semi synthetic Castrol ActEvo 4t 10W40 (also JASO MA) - and therefore sell it at the same price.
Both Castrol as well as Ravenol look back onto many decades of experience in the industry and both run their own labs and blend their products themselves.
A no brainer IMHO



Interesting and informative, thx. The only reason I do not consider the change at present is warranty. As long as BMW is responsible to replace what stops working I will stay with the recommended. Up to now they have not shied away from that responsibility yet.

Still do not like the price though!
 

Offline Askook

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Re: BMW engin oil
« Reply #85 on: January 23, 2014, 05:07:59 pm »
Nope no dropped margins,

Some dealers use 10W40(SUBSTANTIALLY CHEAPER @R80/lt) as apposed to the prescribed 5W40

So what was the story then with BMW telling us to ONLY use Castrol Power 1 Racing 5W40 else your clutch may fail and your warranty will be null and void. Now the dealers nullify your warranty by using ActEvo ???
Using different hot viscosity engine oils in summer and winter is utter rubbish since engine & oil temperature vary little with variations in ambient temperature.

Ek het nog altyd n 15w-40 n die sommer gebruik en in die winter n 10w-40, want ek het gedink dis beter vir die fiets.
So ek kon n 5w- 40 in gegooi het en heel jaar ry.
So leer n mens.
 

Offline Camel

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Re: BMW engin oil
« Reply #86 on: March 10, 2014, 03:31:04 pm »
from lecap: And did I mention that I sell engine oil as per  BMW spec for the K50 SAE 5W40 API SM & JASO MA2 compliant & fully synthetic for R 72 per litre? Not Castrol though but Ravenol.

Very nice explanation lecap, will these oil affect the warranty ie using Ravenol instead of Castrol?