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Author Topic: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013  (Read 62565 times)

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Offline badballie

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Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
« Reply #280 on: November 26, 2013, 09:21:12 am »
The Gazette also states that adjustments to the tariffs and amounts can still be made.

"The increase will be determined by the minister and will not exceed the Consumer Price Index (CPI) for the preceeding 12 months."

According to the law, they may only increase the rate as per CPI every 12 months. Which rate ? The rate without discount.

They may make adjustments to tariffs and rates however - what adjustments ? The discounts applicable offcourse
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Offline alanB

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Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
« Reply #281 on: November 26, 2013, 09:22:24 am »
I have to admit guys, as much as I dont want to I am also, like I am sure MANY other citizens looking at possibly getting a tag, Paying the reduced fee compared to 3 times the amount??
I do think I am going to avoid the highways as much as I can, but its not always possible.
You can say as much as you like that YOU WONT PAY, if you have used it and dont pay, you going to get shit, thats a fact. Thats how I see it, and no I dont have a tag yet.

To me the questions are these.

1) Am I happy with the way the country is being run?
    a) Mildly unhappy
    b) Its a bit concerning
    c) Deeply unhappy - we are headed for disaster if this continues
2)  e-tolls are:
    a) A good thing and ultimately for the benefit of us all
    b) A poorly planned and executed project but the concept was OK to start with, sort of.
    c) The latest example of a government just raping it citizens at every turn and which potentially heralds a whole new range of additional taxes under the "user pays" principle on a lot of other existing infrastructure
3) The government is using my existing tax money
    a) Wisely and efficiently
    b) Making a few mistakes here and there, but doing their best
    c) Just pissing huge amounts of  money away on their own lavish life styles, excessive salaries and perks, incompetence, corruption, cronyism, factionalism and stupidity, resulting the ever increasing need for more and more and more money from tax payers while we get less and less?

Answer those questions and then decide whether its maybe worth while paying a bit more for your tolls to try and bring down this scheme.  You dont have to do anything illegal, just make it as bloody difficult as possible to collect the money.

If we can stop this scheme we also start a whole new mindset in the population that we are not powerless and can make our displeasure known to a very arrogant government.

Last word:

In any properly run country introducing something like etolls may not necessarily be a bad thing (apart from the privacy concern) because:
1) I would expect that they would reduce taxes that were used to pay for road maintenance before etolls - to compensate for the money collected from tolls
2) A large portion of the money collected would not be siphoned off into a Swiss bank account or some foreign country or private companies with opaque ownerships and shareholdings etc
3) The existing taxes collected (other than etolls) would not be wasted and I could trust that they would be properly used for my benefit as a citizen, so I can rest assured they could not have used that existing money instead of having to introduce etolls
4) The politicians and their friends would not be able to set up and drive through schemes in which they had a personal commercial interest
5) Politicians who were suspected of bribery and corruption or who had known links to corrupt businessmen and convicted criminals would be forced to resign the day after the news was made public.
6) I would expect that once the debts were paid off, etolls would be cancelled or reduced.
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Offline PierreO

Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
« Reply #282 on: November 26, 2013, 09:25:59 am »
 :laughing4: They give stupid people a bad name !!


I have to admit guys, as much as I dont want to I am also, like I am sure MANY other citizens looking at possibly getting a tag, Paying the reduced fee compared to 3 times the amount??
I do think I am going to avoid the highways as much as I can, but its not always possible.
You can say as much as you like that YOU WONT PAY, if you have used it and dont pay, you going to get shit, thats a fact. Thats how I see it, and no I dont have a tag yet.

Mikie  - I get what you are saying. Just keep in mind that discounted rates are not guaranteed, what are you going to do once registered and the discounts fall away and you have to pay the higher rate in any event? No getting out of the system then.

That is the crux.

It is not scary talk, it is a fact. The discounted rates are not feasible, it means Gov has subsidize the system to offer those rates. Why would Gov keep on subsidizing you for any extended period ? How can they afford to ? Then the e-tolls are even more ridiculous.

The discounted rates can not and will not last. The Gov is bargaining on people getting registered based on the enticement of discounts. Once they have you  - you are screwed.

There is only one way and that is not to register........................................do your best to sabotage the system, otherwise you WILL be paying the high rate sooner than later.

Dropping discounts is possible too, absolutely. But there limits to that as well surely, they not that stupid


 

Offline Rooikat

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Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
« Reply #283 on: November 26, 2013, 09:27:41 am »
they not that stupid
:laughing6:

Mikie, how do you think this moronic system was decided on? They're either cretins or corrupt. Either way, all you have to do is not register. The chances of you even receiving an invoice are remote.
 :laughing4: :laughing4: :laughing4: :laughing4: :laughing4: :laughing4: :laughing4: :laughing4:
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Offline mox

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Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
« Reply #284 on: November 26, 2013, 09:29:06 am »
On this mornings news some SANRAL prick stated that we will have to pay for going through a gantry within 7 days and if not our charged amount of say R2.50 will triple and a debt collector will be sent to claim. I see thousands of new new jobs being created :imaposer: How the hell do they see E- Tolls as being viable with the debt collector fee, all the admin costs, issuing of invoices and all the miscellaneous costs ?

I do know for sure that they wont be sending debt collectors to Mr. Dlamini in Diepsloot, they will rather concerntrate on Mr. Dlamini in Sunninghill  :thumleft:
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Offline BikerJan

Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
« Reply #285 on: November 26, 2013, 09:32:29 am »
On this mornings news some SANRAL prick stated that we will have to pay for going through a gantry within 7 days and if not our charged amount of say R2.50 will triple and a debt collector will be sent to claim. I see thousands of new new jobs being created :imaposer: How the hell do they see E- Tolls as being viable with the debt collector fee, all the admin costs, issuing of invoices and all the miscellaneous costs ?

I do know for sure that they wont be sending debt collectors to Mr. Dlamini in Diepsloot, they will rather concerntrate on Mr. Dlamini in Sunninghill  :thumleft:

I would love to see how they are going to issue all those millions of invoices within 7 days!
 

Offline Ganjora

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Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
« Reply #286 on: November 26, 2013, 09:32:59 am »
and a debt collector will be sent

bully-boy,  scare tactics from a corrupt and unnacountable government of fools and criminals.
 

Offline J-dog

Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
« Reply #287 on: November 26, 2013, 09:34:22 am »
and a debt collector will be sent

bully-boy,  scare tactics from a corrupt and unnacountable government of fools and criminals.

in a perfect nutshell
 

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Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
« Reply #288 on: November 26, 2013, 09:37:43 am »
they not that stupid
:laughing6:

Mikie, how do you think this moronic system was decided on? They're either cretins or corrupt. Either way, all you have to do is not register. The chances of you even receiving an invoice are remote.
 :laughing4: :laughing4: :laughing4: :laughing4: :laughing4: :laughing4: :laughing4: :laughing4:

As I said I dont intend to, and will just avoid tolls for as long as I can, but the reality is, many will be giving in and just registering, the exorbitant fees for not having a tag are going to force it
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Offline Bundu

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Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
« Reply #289 on: November 26, 2013, 09:52:55 am »
"Outa to open new front in battle on Gauteng e-tolls
THE Opposition to Urban Tolling Alliance (Outa), which is locked in battle with the South African National Roads Agency (Sanral) and the government, is opening a new legal front in its campaign to frustrate e-tolls in Gauteng.

Outa chairman Wayne Duvenage said on Monday this would include co-ordinating support for the first court case to test the legality of nonpayment of toll fees.

The campaign, to be started in the "next week or so", includes providing a service to road users at R50-R60 a month that includes "a panic button and support line for if you get pulled over, along with a know-your-rights campaign ... a whole host of benefits will be rolled out".

"There will be a very focused strategy to empower people with support, including legal support in a court intervention as well as civil courage campaign to not tag-up and not to pay e-tolls."

Outa needs to raise about R2m to support the first test case and this would mean the alliance would need about 15,000 people to set up a monthly debit order of about R60, raising the necessary funds within a year.

Last week, Transport Minister Dipuo Peters said e-tolls would go live on December 3, two-and-a-half years later than first announced.

On Monday, law firm Findlay & Niemeyer offered to conduct a test case defence for one of the first noncompliant e-toll road users. Mr Duvenage said another, still unnamed, law firm would also be part of the support Outa was helping to co-ordinate.

Senior partner John Price said his firm would defend the test case to "promote and enforce" section 217(1) of the constitution, which "requires the government to contract for a system (in this case, the tolls) that was ‘fair, equitable, transparent, competitive and cost effective’".

Mr Duvenage said Outa had been working with Mr Price and another firm of attorneys to co-ordinate the information from Outa’s thwarted legal challenges.

"It is not over by a long way," he said. "Outa is busy forming its strategy … we have an extremely strong case. Remember the lawfulness argument has not been heard — the Supreme Court of Appeal was very clear that that matter needed to be addressed at the appropriate time and they were not going to address it in the review process."

Outa lost its appeal application when the court ruled on the technicality that Outa had taken longer than six months to object to the programme as provided for under the law.

Responding to the news of possible legal challenges, Sanral spokesman Vusi Mona said anyone wanting to set a judicial precedent by challenging the enforcement of e-tolls was "welcome". Sanral was "confident we have done everything by the book" and already had three court rulings in its favour.

The enforcement of e-tolls would first be administered by Sanral’s own debt collection system — through a series of infringement notices coupled with discount incentives for payment, Mr Mona said.

Justice Project South Africa chairman Howard Dembovsky said Sanral was using the Criminal Procedure Act to "threaten people with being criminals if they don’t pay"."
 

Offline Bundu

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Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
« Reply #290 on: November 26, 2013, 09:59:49 am »
I won't be staying off the highways and using silly back roads - that might just make me think e-tolls are a bargain and defeat the disruptive strategy we are embarking on to stop this crap
 

Offline RobC

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Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
« Reply #291 on: November 26, 2013, 10:04:07 am »

of course it would be interesting to see the Christian view on etolls an all, Lourens, RobC et al?
My view has been pretty clear on the matter and it has nothing to do with the bible either... just plain common sense.
Pathetic argument skills by the way, dragging in religion like that. :sip:
 

Offline PierreO

Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
« Reply #292 on: November 26, 2013, 10:07:21 am »
Seriaaas , wdf has this got to do with Religion , but go and google Catholic church and E-toll to get you answer .



of course it would be interesting to see the Christian view on etolls an all, Lourens, RobC et al?
My view has been pretty clear on the matter and it has nothing to do with the bible either... just plain common sense.
Pathetic argument skills by the way, dragging in religion like that. :sip:
 

Offline IceCreamMan

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Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
« Reply #293 on: November 26, 2013, 10:08:44 am »

of course it would be interesting to see the Christian view on etolls an all, Lourens, RobC et al?
My view has been pretty clear on the matter and it has nothing to do with the bible either... just plain common sense.
Pathetic argument skills by the way, dragging in religion like that. :sip:

but surely Rob, yr directive is clear ...follow the laws of the land....

are you advocating one should not follow these laws?
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Offline RobC

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Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
« Reply #294 on: November 26, 2013, 10:20:45 am »
ICM...  :lamer:
 

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Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
« Reply #295 on: November 26, 2013, 10:22:57 am »
:paw:

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Offline Mr Zog

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Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
« Reply #296 on: November 26, 2013, 10:24:20 am »
ICM...  :lamer:

Faaark me sideways !!!

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Offline Ganjora

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Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
« Reply #297 on: November 26, 2013, 10:26:05 am »
« Last Edit: November 26, 2013, 10:26:33 am by Ganjora »
 

Offline punisher

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Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
« Reply #298 on: November 26, 2013, 10:38:27 am »
I will continue to use my roads , the same roads that the guv has taken , and continue to take money from the road fund ( petrol) to build and improve (sic)
As fasr as the "user pays priciple" that the mazi and other locusts flout as an excuse to try and steal more money from me , can u please introduce the same "principle" to state hospitals and state education , and any othe "state " run feeding scheme ,  I am not a "user" of them , I expect a nice tax refund

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Offline IceCreamMan

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Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
« Reply #299 on: November 26, 2013, 10:45:32 am »
ICM...  :lamer:

but how u gonna justify this , serious question.... u cannot tell ppl they must follow the laws of the land if you yourself do not do so......

disobedience is not permitted
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