Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register

Author Topic: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013  (Read 54847 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Flouw

  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Bike: KTM 640 Adventure
    Location: Limpopo
  • Posts: 669
  • Thanked: 4 times
Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
« Reply #780 on: December 04, 2013, 02:59:59 pm »
what would the mentality be, if they drop the whole E-toll thing just before the elections?
they will sing and dance, and a "new" ANC leader will be chosen.

this is like simcity to them. petrol price go up with 30c, everybody cries. they drop it by 10c and everyone is happy again.
TW200 (under 1000km) - garage show piece
KTM640 ADV - Every day
Yamaha WR450f - SOLD Honda XL700V Transalp - SOLD Honda XR600R 00' - SOLD Yamaha TW200 - SOLD
Suzuki TS125X liquid cool - GATHERING DUST
 

Offline RobC

  • Bachelor Dog
  • *****
  • Bike: Kawasaki KLR 650
    Location: Free State
  • Posts: 13,581
  • Thanked: 229 times
  • Bloemfontein
Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
« Reply #781 on: December 04, 2013, 03:16:19 pm »
I think I can confirm that the atlas gantry is not working
As from yesterdays trip. I went under it to work , no charge ( R 4.70)
But return trip is charged ( R6.38)


Now here is a another question .... Why the fukk does it cost nearly 50 % extra to travel back home ,,,,,,  does scumral think ll be more willing to get a bigger ass reaming , just coz I am happy to be going home ???

Fuukk witts.
Hahahahahahaha
Seems like peak time there is no discount?  >:D
 

Offline TVB

  • Deleted Users
  • Forum Whore
  • *
  • Bike: Honda XL650V Transalp
    Location: North West
  • Posts: 5,979
Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
« Reply #782 on: December 04, 2013, 04:10:41 pm »
I think I can confirm that the atlas gantry is not working
As from yesterdays trip. I went under it to work , no charge ( R 4.70)
But return trip is charged ( R6.38)


Now here is a another question .... Why the fukk does it cost nearly 50 % extra to travel back home ,,,,,,  does scumral think ll be more willing to get a bigger ass reaming , just coz I am happy to be going home ???

Fuukk witts.
Hahahahahahaha
Seems like peak time there is no discount?  >:D

You are paying by kilometer, they have measured the distance between gantries and so on. That's why it is a different rate N vs South

Discount for tagged users are all hours, not just peak.

There will be a lot of growing pains but SANRAL will stay, and we will have to pay in the end.
They will not cut this cows throat ever, nort before the elections either
 

Offline alanB

  • Moderator
  • Forum Whore
  • ****
  • Bike: Husqvarna (all models)
    Location: Gauteng
  • Posts: 6,769
  • Thanked: 10 times
    • www.extinction.co.za
Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
« Reply #783 on: December 04, 2013, 04:41:50 pm »
Quote
There will be a lot of growing pains but SANRAL will stay, and we will have to pay in the end.
They will not cut this cows throat ever, nort before the elections either

Why?

You've assumed that, but why?
Husqvarna '09 610TE - Great Bike!

I just finished a SciFi novel Extinction: Task Team, download the preview.
 

Offline Triple Trompie

  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Bike: Triumph 800 XC
    Location: North West
  • Posts: 659
Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
« Reply #784 on: December 04, 2013, 04:49:06 pm »
Lyk my dis nie net ICM wat op SANRAL se payroll is nie....  :peepwall:

Quote
AS JY OOR DIE BOERE WIL KLA MOET NIE MET N MOND VOL KOS PRAAT NIE!!!!
 

Offline alanB

  • Moderator
  • Forum Whore
  • ****
  • Bike: Husqvarna (all models)
    Location: Gauteng
  • Posts: 6,769
  • Thanked: 10 times
    • www.extinction.co.za
Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
« Reply #785 on: December 04, 2013, 04:58:25 pm »
Lyk my dis nie net ICM wat op SANRAL se payroll is nie....  :peepwall:



No TVB actually does work for SANRAL and I think his observations are relevant and certainly useful to see the inside of the machine as it were.

Just wondering why he has made that assumption, that's all.
Husqvarna '09 610TE - Great Bike!

I just finished a SciFi novel Extinction: Task Team, download the preview.
 

Offline Vintage_Mania

Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
« Reply #786 on: December 04, 2013, 05:24:05 pm »
Some more on the Atlas Road gantry;

Will post pics from home later, but cameras are def missing, the ultraviolet lights and tag readers seem to be there, just cameras gone

People say nothing is impossible, but I do nothing every day. And doing nothing often leads to the very best kind of something.
 

Offline punisher

  • DILLIGAF
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Bike: BMW R1200GS Adventure
    Location: Gauteng
  • Posts: 4,741
  • Thanked: 221 times
Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
« Reply #787 on: December 04, 2013, 05:44:51 pm »
I think I can confirm that the atlas gantry is not working
As from yesterdays trip. I went under it to work , no charge ( R 4.70)
But return trip is charged ( R6.38)


Now here is a another question .... Why the fukk does it cost nearly 50 % extra to travel back home ,,,,,,  does scumral think ll be more willing to get a bigger ass reaming , just coz I am happy to be going home ???

Fuukk witts.
Hahahahahahaha
Seems like peak time there is no discount?  >:D

it was peak time to work and peak time back ?????
just wanna have fun , and ride ... and ....... ride
 

Offline Mzee

  • Forum Whore
  • ****
  • Bike: Yamaha Super Tenere
    Location: Gauteng
  • Posts: 6,008
  • Thanked: 16 times
  • Bikes: DL 650 Suzuki; Honda 250 Suzuki 125; Vespa
    • Mzee-Jaki
Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
« Reply #788 on: December 04, 2013, 05:48:05 pm »
E-toll nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo :sip:
Life is kind to those who afford it kindness

              XT1200Z Super Tenere
 

Offline punisher

  • DILLIGAF
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Bike: BMW R1200GS Adventure
    Location: Gauteng
  • Posts: 4,741
  • Thanked: 221 times
Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
« Reply #789 on: December 04, 2013, 05:48:58 pm »
I think I can confirm that the atlas gantry is not working
As from yesterdays trip. I went under it to work , no charge ( R 4.70)
But return trip is charged ( R6.38)


Now here is a another question .... Why the fukk does it cost nearly 50 % extra to travel back home ,,,,,,  does scumral think ll be more willing to get a bigger ass reaming , just coz I am happy to be going home ???

Fuukk witts.
Hahahahahahaha
Seems like peak time there is no discount?  >:D

You are paying by kilometer, they have measured the distance between gantries and so on. That's why it is a different rate N vs South

Discount for tagged users are all hours, not just peak.

There will be a lot of growing pains but SANRAL will stay, and we will have to pay in the end.
They will not cut this cows throat ever, nort before the elections either

 so you are saying i am paying for kilometers that i do not use ???? bwahahahahahahahaha  
fukkit the twatwaffle value of "user pays principle" along with the "right thing to do" just gets beter and beter
neee fok  .......  this NAZI crowd supporters are truely fukkwits
just wanna have fun , and ride ... and ....... ride
 

Offline punisher

  • DILLIGAF
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Bike: BMW R1200GS Adventure
    Location: Gauteng
  • Posts: 4,741
  • Thanked: 221 times
Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
« Reply #790 on: December 04, 2013, 05:50:35 pm »
going past atlas , on the other side , i did definately see some camera'a  , so dunno about the story , but ahhh fukkit  , i am just so enjoying the entertainment value of this whole cockupp   
just wanna have fun , and ride ... and ....... ride
 

Offline Bundu

  • Forum Whore
  • ****
  • Bike: KTM 1290 Super Adventure
    Location: Gauteng
  • Posts: 8,757
  • Thanked: 279 times
Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
« Reply #791 on: December 04, 2013, 05:55:32 pm »
I think I can confirm that the atlas gantry is not working
As from yesterdays trip. I went under it to work , no charge ( R 4.70)
But return trip is charged ( R6.38)


Now here is a another question .... Why the fukk does it cost nearly 50 % extra to travel back home ,,,,,,  does scumral think ll be more willing to get a bigger ass reaming , just coz I am happy to be going home ???

Fuukk witts.
Hahahahahahaha
Seems like peak time there is no discount?  >:D

You are paying by kilometer, they have measured the distance between gantries and so on. That's why it is a different rate N vs South

Discount for tagged users are all hours, not just peak.

There will be a lot of growing pains but SANRAL will stay, and we will have to pay in the end.
They will not cut this cows throat ever, nort before the elections either

 so you are saying i am paying for kilometers that i do not use ???? bwahahahahahahahaha  
fukkit the twatwaffle value of "user pays principle" along with the "right thing to do" just gets beter and beter
neee fok  .......  this NAZI crowd supporters are truely fukkwits


that's correct - in reality you will always pay more than the advertised rate per km, as the gantries are not located at the off ramps
So if you regularly take the next off ramp after a gantry, you'll get it nice, hard and deep  ;)
 

Offline punisher

  • DILLIGAF
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Bike: BMW R1200GS Adventure
    Location: Gauteng
  • Posts: 4,741
  • Thanked: 221 times
Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
« Reply #792 on: December 04, 2013, 06:58:29 pm »
I think I can confirm that the atlas gantry is not working
As from yesterdays trip. I went under it to work , no charge ( R 4.70)
But return trip is charged ( R6.38)


Now here is a another question .... Why the fukk does it cost nearly 50 % extra to travel back home ,,,,,,  does scumral think ll be more willing to get a bigger ass reaming , just coz I am happy to be going home ???

Fuukk witts.
Hahahahahahaha
Seems like peak time there is no discount?  >:D

You are paying by kilometer, they have measured the distance between gantries and so on. That's why it is a different rate N vs South

Discount for tagged users are all hours, not just peak.

There will be a lot of growing pains but SANRAL will stay, and we will have to pay in the end.
They will not cut this cows throat ever, nort before the elections either

 so you are saying i am paying for kilometers that i do not use ???? bwahahahahahahahaha  
fukkit the twatwaffle value of "user pays principle" along with the "right thing to do" just gets beter and beter
neee fok  .......  this NAZI crowd supporters are truely fukkwits


that's correct - in reality you will always pay more than the advertised rate per km, as the gantries are not located at the off ramps
So if you regularly take the next off ramp after a gantry, you'll get it nice, hard and deep  ;)

 hahaha  dont ye just like the 'fair play"  these twatwaffles like to give it to the masses ,  and the cumguzzlers fall for it   bwahahahahahahaha
just wanna have fun , and ride ... and ....... ride
 

Offline Triple Trompie

  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Bike: Triumph 800 XC
    Location: North West
  • Posts: 659
Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
« Reply #793 on: December 04, 2013, 11:01:19 pm »
Lyk my dis nie net ICM wat op SANRAL se payroll is nie....  :peepwall:



No TVB actually does work for SANRAL and I think his observations are relevant and certainly useful to see the inside of the machine as it were.

Just wondering why he has made that assumption, that's all.

O.K. My bad. Nothing personal. Was also wondering about the assumptions made, and the insistence that etoll is not going away...
Quote
AS JY OOR DIE BOERE WIL KLA MOET NIE MET N MOND VOL KOS PRAAT NIE!!!!
 

Offline Lourens ツ

Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
« Reply #794 on: December 04, 2013, 11:04:57 pm »
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/8mp4SQzrXJA" target="_blank" class="new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/8mp4SQzrXJA</a>

Lourens de Lange
 

Offline TVB

  • Deleted Users
  • Forum Whore
  • *
  • Bike: Honda XL650V Transalp
    Location: North West
  • Posts: 5,979
Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
« Reply #795 on: December 05, 2013, 06:42:32 am »
Lyk my dis nie net ICM wat op SANRAL se payroll is nie....  :peepwall:



No TVB actually does work for SANRAL and I think his observations are relevant and certainly useful to see the inside of the machine as it were.

Just wondering why he has made that assumption, that's all.

O.K. My bad. Nothing personal. Was also wondering about the assumptions made, and the insistence that etoll is not going away...

Ok sorry for the late reply to the thread but we were really busy yesterday and all EMS (emergency medical servises) personnel work 12 hours and even longer. My day starts at 4 am and I get back home at 19H00 if nou late calls

Now I am confused for am I the one that is missing the bigger picture here? (Not sarcastic please - as you can clearly see English is my 2nd language)
From SANRAL side, why will they cut the 'fat cows throat'? Or don't I understand the question right?
First of all: before the world cup they decided (because of the cup) to upgrade the roads. The R21 and some other sections were only 2 lanes and emergency services were almost permanently bussy on these roads as it was really not well maintained and could not handle traffic and it was mostly dark (no lights like now)
Now we all know that the building of roads and especially highways are the most expensive part of any infrastructure. So there was not enough money and budged to cover this billions and they got expert advice from abroad. A grou of engineers (I met one) was commisioned to go overseas and look for solutions and the best suitable systems. European tech was the way to go with European money and to secure the deal a way of proof that we can pay back massive loans was to introduce toll. Also new to SA was the road monotoring system on the highways (surveylance) and all the added services.
Now to run an operation like this you need a HQ, and puplick service centres and people or employees. Thousands because there are shifts over 24 hour periods. Not to mention the emergency services which is by far the smallest part of the organisation. Security allone is massive here, security officials alone probably thousand+. It is hard to imagine the operations behind this, to operate the whole system if you haven't seen it. Trust me, it's massive.

Now ever since the Gov opt for this people were emplyed, contracts were sighnd and so on. For close to 2 years they have tried to get this live but the already established controll centre and operations were costing them big in salaries, road contractors (private companies) etc

Yes we pay something like R1.20 per liter of fuel that should go towards road maintenance and development or building of roads, but that budged is now way near enough.

E-toll (or toll not much different than we used to know it) is paying for this huge 'machine' to keep it running. I can not answer for any corruption in Goverment etc, but all I can say is that this is obviously a 'fat cow' and it will spread through the Country because it works. It provides infrastructure and it provides jobs.

I feel it on my pocket as well, travel everyday from Pta North to Midrand. I don't like it either, but I am contracted to this project as a motorbike first response medic. It's my job no matter if I do it on a normal publick road or a privetised Toll road. I lost my contract abroad a year ago (many contracts came to an end) and a forum member helped me to get this job which I am gratefull till I get another good contract abroad again. This is my role - I am not happy like I stated many times already to pay this prices and it snowballs. Food and everything get more expensive, but I can't see how this can end. If it does collapse our Country will just slide backwards for the roads will not be maintained and we wil end up sitting hours in traffic.

A big reply and it feels I did not really answer the question ....... We all upset in a way
 

Offline Chillie

  • Member
  • **
  • Bike: Suzuki DL 650 V-Strom
    Location: Eastern Cape
  • Posts: 71
  • If You Want To Be happy Ride A Motorcycle
Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
« Reply #796 on: December 05, 2013, 07:17:53 am »
This sums up my e tag
 

Offline alanB

  • Moderator
  • Forum Whore
  • ****
  • Bike: Husqvarna (all models)
    Location: Gauteng
  • Posts: 6,769
  • Thanked: 10 times
    • www.extinction.co.za
Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
« Reply #797 on: December 05, 2013, 07:23:31 am »
Thanks for the thoughts.

But I think we need to separate the issues:

1) Funding of the roads.  No matter how elaborate the infrastructure, funding that could have been done out of existing taxes.  The road improvements cost 23bn, the governments own report on wasteful, fruitless and corrupt expenditure for the year before last admitted to 25bn (I've attached the press release), so they could have paid for it all out of existing taxes without increasing the fuel levy or anything else in just  one year)!

2) Just because all the infrastructure is there does not mean people are going to happily pay and pay and pay over quite significant amounts of their disposable income.  So just because its all there, that does not mean that it wont fail.  And by fail I mean it wont recover enough money to remain financially viable into the future.

3) The whole thing doesn't make sense - the cost to the economy is enormous and its all completely unnecessary.  Which is why I strongly suspect the only reason why the government is so determined for it to go ahead is because of the funds siphoned off the top into individual's bank accounts!

Quote
Taxpayers didn't get value for R25bn
2012-01-16 16:38
Xolani Mbanjwa

Johannesburg - Auditor General Terence Nombembe has unearthed R25bn in unauthorised, irregular, fruitless and wasteful expenditure in national and provincial government departments in the 2010/2011 financial year.

Nombembe, who expressed concern about the financial controls in public sector spending, said this was an increase of R2.3bn compared with the previous financial year - because of his office's increased "scrutiny" of taxpayers’ money.

The exact figure of R25.445bn includes the spending of government entities such as Eskom and the SA National Roads Agency Limited.

Addressing reporters in Pretoria this morning Nombembe said he felt the most discomfort about the area of financial reporting, where government officials failed to record the correct amounts spent.

He said financial information was often corrected by his own officials during the auditing process at the end of the financial year.

While national and provincial departments, including entities, reported R13.7bn in unauthorised, irregular, fruitless and wasteful spending in their annual reports, the AG found a further R11.7bn through the final auditing processes.

Nombembe said financial managers should be trained to be able to report on finances correctly before all spheres of government could reach the target of clean audits by 2014.

"It (correct financial reporting) is the single and sole factor that will make clean audits in SA a reality. The role of the ministers, premiers, MECs, portfolio committees and Scopa [the standing committee on public accounts] is important,” said Nombembe.

One of the "biggest weaknesses" in government as a whole was the effectiveness of information technology systems and controls, said Nombembe.

The AG report shows that at provincial government level irregular expenditure - incurred in contravention of national laws - was the biggest culprit at R16.8bn, followed by unauthorised expenditure (overspending on certain projects) at R2.9bn while fruitless and wasteful expenditure (spending in vain, which could have been avoided) stood at R850m.

At national government level irregular expenditure was R4.5bn, fruitless and wasteful expenditure R593m and unauthorised expenditure was R802m.

Nombembe expressed concern that most government departments did not understand the requirements for meeting service delivery objectives and that departments were apparently deliberately not reporting their finances accordingly.

"Financial reporting is the biggest area of concern where there is [a] supply chain. This is where we still find a number of omissions by departments in adhering to departmental norms.

"Once again it’s an area, to a large extent, that does need to be given attention because there’s constant deviation. It doesn’t mean money has been lost, just that due processes are not embarked upon by government departments," said Nombembe.

He was also concerned with the high vacancy rate and called on government to employ skilled people who have an understanding of the basic accounting principles.

But Nombembe was pleased that senior government officials including the executive had committed themselves to improving the state of financial reporting and controls in the public sector.

He warned that unless the executive rise to the occasion and monitor financial controls in their respective departments Operation Clean Audit, set for 2014, would not be a reality.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2013, 07:26:35 am by alanB »
Husqvarna '09 610TE - Great Bike!

I just finished a SciFi novel Extinction: Task Team, download the preview.
 

Online Ganjora

Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
« Reply #798 on: December 05, 2013, 07:34:18 am »
Wayne Duvenhage: http://www.dailymaverick.co.za/opinionista/2013-12-05-e-toll-defiance-hasnt-failed-its-barely-started/#.UqAQPdIW2So

Recently, questions and statements have arisen to insinuate that e-tolling’s launch has signalled the end or a failure of the defiance campaign. Nothing could be further from the truth. Defiance campaigns against irrational laws such as the Dompas and others throughout history did not result in the required change of heart by the authorities on the first day, week or month of resistance, did they?
Such campaigns are journeys, and the displays of civil courage take time to gather momentum, until a sufficient volume of society, aggrieved by the irrationality of a policy, begin to slow the system down and make it unworkable.

Until the past week, there has been no real opportunity for defiance. There have been a number of court challenges, marches, drive-slows and talk shops. These are the so-called ‘sparring sessions’, a postulation of position from both sides of the ring. In reality, defiance only starts when the bell sounds and the showdown begins. That’s when the true colours are nailed to the mast (or windscreen) and when the people are able to truly express their opinion.

Let’s face it, e-tolling systems do work in many parts of the world, but there is a general formula for these successes. They work in environments where the authorities have garnered the involvement, support and trust of the people through a meaningful and transparent public engagement process from the initial planning stages through to implementation. In addition, their success requires low costs of administration and collection of tolls (international benchmarks between five and 10%) and where tariffs are acceptable. These factors, if realised, generally ensure high levels of compliance from the launch (over 90%) and are, more often than not, sustainable over time.

In the case of Sanral’s e-toll debacle, virtually all the required elements were severely lacking. Transparency and public engagement was dismal and when coupled with the high tariffs and costs of collection (closer to 29% as opposed to Sanral’s claim of 17%), plus foreign company enrichment, it’s no wonder they are up against a tsunami of resistance. For these reasons they have entered the launch period with a questionable, but dismal number of 800,000 tags sold, which incidentally is less than 35% of the 2,3 million monthly freeway users. This is nothing short of a disaster for them and has necessitated a program of ‘calculated intimidation tactics’ from Sanral, with threats of summonses, criminal charges, bad debt listings, etc., in an attempt to coerce the public to tag up. And while these tactics may even add another few hundred thousand to their list, this will still be no more than 50% of freeway users at best, which is far from enough, sending a massive signal of success for the campaign of defiance.

What essentially happens in this scenario is that in a short while, the half paying for the tolls begin to realise the other half are getting away with it and are succeeding in their defiance. The once tagged then begin to ‘tag-down’, one by one they join resistance, tilting the scale against Sanral’s plan. The collection process then becomes far too costly to manage, eventually sending the authorities back to the drawing board. Sanral and their advisors realise this is a serious problem for them and their strategists are hard at work to hatch schemes to entice the untagged to come over, through a combination of ‘carrot and stick’ tactics.

The million and more Gauteng road users who have exercised civil courage to date will probably hold their ground and not fall for the shallow tactics and misinformation about the climbing numbers as espoused by Sanral. Despite a few expected queues at some of their centers during the first week of operation, the stay-away has been massive. E-tag counts of windscreens in car parks across the region are currently being undertaken and becoming a meaningful research exercise to verify the public’s suspicion of Sanral’s misleading information on the e-tag penetration rate, further boosting their civil courage and defiance against the unjust system.

So tolling has started and yes, a few hundred thousand citizens have tagged up, many forced to do so under ‘corporate fleet’ instructions. This merely drags the campaign of defiance on for several months longer, that’s all. Against this backdrop, e-tolling of Gauteng’s freeways will never be sustainable. Those who have tags did so under duress and the active citizens who didn’t, will remain resilient and sufficient in numbers to get the job done. They will proudly look back one day and say – “I remained untagged and was part of defiance campaign that stopped government’s irrational and unjust e-toll plan.”

It’s not a matter of if, but when the e-toll system in Gauteng will be scrapped. DM
 

Online Ganjora

Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
« Reply #799 on: December 05, 2013, 07:41:23 am »


contacted Randburg signs this AM to get a price on them making a numberplate like this.
150mm x 150mm
will post the quote,  maybe,  if enough guys want one,  we can get a bulk discount.
now,  i don't ride with a plate ever,  but this WILL go on my bikes.