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Author Topic: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013  (Read 55149 times)

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Offline TVB

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Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
« Reply #800 on: December 05, 2013, 07:44:49 am »
I don't know what they do or did with the money that was then supposed to build these roads. Just have a look at the rest of the Countries roads, especially in NW and Limpopo. Potholes and even sections where the tar broke up and big stretches of gravel.

Toll roads are administrated as 'a privat company' where you pay for a service and where you are the client and they have to provide or meet their side of the contract like all included road services. I am sure we will see many court cases by 'unhappy customers' in the future for example: you are stationary or even better, a truck is stationary and not removed (towed by SANRAL into the emergency lane within a certain time frame' or the road is not made safe behind the truck with traffic cones and flagman and you collide with the truck. I am speaking under correction but I think that since a stationary is reported the IRU (incident response vehicle) must be ther within 15 min to safeguard and take action.

It works a little bit different on a normal publick road wher 'A' no one is responsible to safeguard and clean or clear the road within a certain timeframe and 'B' you are not a 'client' that can either complain or take action. Here you can, you pay tolls and are entiteld now for the advertised servises.

2 sides to the story, good and bad. I hope to see development rather of more safe and better roads. And yes, I think the asking rate is too high per kilometer!
 

Offline alanB

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Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
« Reply #801 on: December 05, 2013, 07:59:08 am »
I don't know what they do or did with the money that was then supposed to build these roads. Just have a look at the rest of the Countries roads, especially in NW and Limpopo. Potholes and even sections where the tar broke up and big stretches of gravel.

Toll roads are administrated as 'a privat company' where you pay for a service and where you are the client and they have to provide or meet their side of the contract like all included road services. I am sure we will see many court cases by 'unhappy customers' in the future for example: you are stationary or even better, a truck is stationary and not removed (towed by SANRAL into the emergency lane within a certain time frame' or the road is not made safe behind the truck with traffic cones and flagman and you collide with the truck. I am speaking under correction but I think that since a stationary is reported the IRU (incident response vehicle) must be ther within 15 min to safeguard and take action.

It works a little bit different on a normal publick road wher 'A' no one is responsible to safeguard and clean or clear the road within a certain timeframe and 'B' you are not a 'client' that can either complain or take action. Here you can, you pay tolls and are entiteld now for the advertised servises.

2 sides to the story, good and bad. I hope to see development rather of more safe and better roads. And yes, I think the asking rate is too high per kilometer!

The point upon which you and I differ is I expect the government to do their job and use my taxes properly.  So all these services should be provided by the government out of existing taxes - period!

I think you assume the government will not do that and so think that paying someone else OVER AND ABOVE your existing taxes is then a good deal.

Is that a fair observation?
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Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
« Reply #802 on: December 05, 2013, 08:08:50 am »
The structure is not in despute , it is what should have been done 10 yrs ago , what is being contested , is the amount we ( taxpayer) has to pay AGAIN for the structure ( srvice). And the amounts that is going out of the country , coupled with the inflated costs of resurfacing , the blatant lies and unscrupolous "dealings" that has been spouted by the shady characters involved
That is why , us ( taxpayers) have to fight this , if we don't the above mentioned locusts are going to consume every last bit of our country
just wanna have fun , and ride ... and ....... ride
 

Offline TVB

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Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
« Reply #803 on: December 05, 2013, 08:22:14 am »
I don't know what they do or did with the money that was then supposed to build these roads. Just have a look at the rest of the Countries roads, especially in NW and Limpopo. Potholes and even sections where the tar broke up and big stretches of gravel.

Toll roads are administrated as 'a privat company' where you pay for a service and where you are the client and they have to provide or meet their side of the contract like all included road services. I am sure we will see many court cases by 'unhappy customers' in the future for example: you are stationary or even better, a truck is stationary and not removed (towed by SANRAL into the emergency lane within a certain time frame' or the road is not made safe behind the truck with traffic cones and flagman and you collide with the truck. I am speaking under correction but I think that since a stationary is reported the IRU (incident response vehicle) must be ther within 15 min to safeguard and take action.

It works a little bit different on a normal publick road wher 'A' no one is responsible to safeguard and clean or clear the road within a certain timeframe and 'B' you are not a 'client' that can either complain or take action. Here you can, you pay tolls and are entiteld now for the advertised servises.

2 sides to the story, good and bad. I hope to see development rather of more safe and better roads. And yes, I think the asking rate is too high per kilometer!

The point upon which you and I differ is I expect the government to do their job and use my taxes properly.  So all these services should be provided by the government out of existing taxes - period!

I think you assume the government will not do that and so think that paying someone else OVER AND ABOVE your existing taxes is then a good deal.

Is that a fair observation?

Your observation is fair. I do assume that the Gov will not upgrade and do what needs to be done because like I said: 'just have a look at other provincial roads, badly maintained and not handling the traffic volumes'
You see what I learned in life (direct translation)
Things you expext from people can't heart you, in other words I don't expect them to be responsible with the money for no Goverment in Africaincluding the old one was ever loyal to my observations. All corupt.

So yes, althouh I repeat myself once again; 'I don't like the idea for it is hurting my and my childrens pockets, it hurts all of our pockets, but at least now you Can expect service because you pay of it as a client.

 

Offline Go Big

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Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
« Reply #804 on: December 05, 2013, 08:32:33 am »
Hell a few years ago I was in Melbourn and we traveled along the highway everyday to work and back and this little thing on the window kept going beep beep every time we went under the lights. I asked about the system and was told its electronic tagging. Dont you guys have this they asked? No wonder your roads are up to shit. They bragged about how efficient it is and how the roads have improved and how it has changed their lives. Yes they also complained about the cost but all agreed its worth it in the end.(this is the same road they mentioned in one of the attached articles posted earlier that are having money issues fair enough its being addressed)

Now us South Africans all sat their saying the same thing to each other. If only SA was first world like this. If only we could get this right. If only,  if only..

We all talk about the rest of the worlds great roads and infrastructure. Their trains that are amazing and always on time. the multilane highways that are well maintained and well policed and have all the medical response etc.

Everywhere in the world SA residents go they all say the same thing! If only we could have this if only we could have that. World class Gautrain, World class highways, world class BRT systems in Cape town and elsewhere. Yes you have to pay for these things here and everywhere else in the world. These systems don't happen overnight and cost a fortune!

Do you want the best in the world or not! If you do you gonna have to pay.

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Offline Mikie

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Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
« Reply #805 on: December 05, 2013, 08:36:02 am »
SO I used the dreaded highway yesterday on the way back from Durban, Had to drop him off in Pta, so passed all the gantries from the N3 up to Brakfontein, They did get saluted by me.

But here is the thing, I was driving the Girlfriends car, the car is in her Mothers name, what now? Does Mama say Up yours Sanral, go collect from my daughter? I want them to say it was me, I want to have some fun with them now.
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Offline dirtyXT

Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
« Reply #806 on: December 05, 2013, 08:50:30 am »
Hell a few years ago I was in Melbourn and we traveled along the highway everyday to work and back and this little thing on the window kept going beep beep every time we went under the lights. I asked about the system and was told its electronic tagging. Dont you guys have this they asked? No wonder your roads are up to shit. They bragged about how efficient it is and how the roads have improved and how it has changed their lives. Yes they also complained about the cost but all agreed its worth it in the end.(this is the same road they mentioned in one of the attached articles posted earlier that are having money issues fair enough its being addressed)

Now us South Africans all sat their saying the same thing to each other. If only SA was first world like this. If only we could get this right. If only,  if only..

We all talk about the rest of the worlds great roads and infrastructure. Their trains that are amazing and always on time. the multilane highways that are well maintained and well policed and have all the medical response etc.

Everywhere in the world SA residents go they all say the same thing! If only we could have this if only we could have that. World class Gautrain, World class highways, world class BRT systems in Cape town and elsewhere. Yes you have to pay for these things here and everywhere else in the world. These systems don't happen overnight and cost a fortune!

Do you want the best in the world or not! If you do you gonna have to pay.


fair enough and i think we all agree with good roads and service, i think well for me at least the bitter pill is that 25bn bucks went missing due to corruption, incompetence and greed. now we have to pay our hard earned money to offset these sorts of things, surely if all the coffers were accounted for that money could have changed our toll rates (if they still need to happen) to like 2c a trip? we are being held accountable for the government mistakes. what about them people who spent 10k on nandos in a month? off scott free i bet. we are a third world country with the 5th most expensive tolling. (I saw somewhere.)
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Offline Vintage_Mania

Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
« Reply #807 on: December 05, 2013, 09:03:35 am »
People say nothing is impossible, but I do nothing every day. And doing nothing often leads to the very best kind of something.
 

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Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
« Reply #809 on: December 05, 2013, 09:12:21 am »
COSATU keeping their part of the bargain;

http://www.timeslive.co.za/thetimes/2013/12/05/snail-mail-to-block-e-tolls



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Offline Mikie

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Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
« Reply #810 on: December 05, 2013, 09:12:38 am »
Oh and one thing we noticed on our drive yesterday, There are very few tags to be seen. very few of the cars we passed had tags on their windscreens, I would say less than 5% of the cars we passed had.
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Online Takashi

Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
« Reply #811 on: December 05, 2013, 09:20:05 am »
How about we start a list of how much money we owe Sanral?
Farkers will have to find me before I pay a cent.

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Offline Go Big

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Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
« Reply #812 on: December 05, 2013, 09:51:32 am »
Hell a few years ago I was in Melbourn and we traveled along the highway everyday to work and back and this little thing on the window kept going beep beep every time we went under the lights. I asked about the system and was told its electronic tagging. Dont you guys have this they asked? No wonder your roads are up to shit. They bragged about how efficient it is and how the roads have improved and how it has changed their lives. Yes they also complained about the cost but all agreed its worth it in the end.(this is the same road they mentioned in one of the attached articles posted earlier that are having money issues fair enough its being addressed)

Now us South Africans all sat their saying the same thing to each other. If only SA was first world like this. If only we could get this right. If only,  if only..

We all talk about the rest of the worlds great roads and infrastructure. Their trains that are amazing and always on time. the multilane highways that are well maintained and well policed and have all the medical response etc.

Everywhere in the world SA residents go they all say the same thing! If only we could have this if only we could have that. World class Gautrain, World class highways, world class BRT systems in Cape town and elsewhere. Yes you have to pay for these things here and everywhere else in the world. These systems don't happen overnight and cost a fortune!

Do you want the best in the world or not! If you do you gonna have to pay.


fair enough and i think we all agree with good roads and service, i think well for me at least the bitter pill is that 25bn bucks went missing due to corruption, incompetence and greed. now we have to pay our hard earned money to offset these sorts of things, surely if all the coffers were accounted for that money could have changed our toll rates (if they still need to happen) to like 2c a trip? we are being held accountable for the government mistakes. what about them people who spent 10k on nandos in a month? off scott free i bet. we are a third world country with the 5th most expensive tolling. (I saw somewhere.)

Agree with you 100%

Only thing is how do you compare the cost directly. The other countries could have the costs subsidised from ather areas like fuel tax etc
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Offline KiLRoy

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Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
« Reply #813 on: December 05, 2013, 10:13:35 am »
Hell a few years ago I was in Melbourn and we traveled along the highway everyday to work and back and this little thing on the window kept going beep beep every time we went under the lights. I asked about the system and was told its electronic tagging. Dont you guys have this they asked? No wonder your roads are up to shit. They bragged about how efficient it is and how the roads have improved and how it has changed their lives. Yes they also complained about the cost but all agreed its worth it in the end.(this is the same road they mentioned in one of the attached articles posted earlier that are having money issues fair enough its being addressed)

Now us South Africans all sat their saying the same thing to each other. If only SA was first world like this. If only we could get this right. If only,  if only..

We all talk about the rest of the worlds great roads and infrastructure. Their trains that are amazing and always on time. the multilane highways that are well maintained and well policed and have all the medical response etc.

Everywhere in the world SA residents go they all say the same thing! If only we could have this if only we could have that. World class Gautrain, World class highways, world class BRT systems in Cape town and elsewhere. Yes you have to pay for these things here and everywhere else in the world. These systems don't happen overnight and cost a fortune!

Do you want the best in the world or not! If you do you gonna have to pay.


fair enough and i think we all agree with good roads and service, i think well for me at least the bitter pill is that 25bn bucks went missing due to corruption, incompetence and greed. now we have to pay our hard earned money to offset these sorts of things, surely if all the coffers were accounted for that money could have changed our toll rates (if they still need to happen) to like 2c a trip? we are being held accountable for the government mistakes. what about them people who spent 10k on nandos in a month? off scott free i bet. we are a third world country with the 5th most expensive tolling. (I saw somewhere.)

Agree with you 100%

Only thing is how do you compare the cost directly. The other countries could have the costs subsidised from ather areas like fuel tax etc

The issue in SA is that we are already paying a moerse lot of tax.  On top of that we pay for health care, education, security, etc etc.  so its easy for an Ozzy or any first world country person to be happy with tolls, since most of his other expenditure is covered by taxes, most likely at a lower rate than ours.

SA is gatvol for a thieving government milking us more and more.
 

Offline Vintage_Mania

Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
« Reply #814 on: December 05, 2013, 10:18:32 am »
Adding to what KilRoy said - in a first world country the burden of tax is also spread more evenly over the population. Where here it is basically the smaller middle class that has to fork out for all the expenditure.
People say nothing is impossible, but I do nothing every day. And doing nothing often leads to the very best kind of something.
 

Offline dirtyXT

Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
« Reply #815 on: December 05, 2013, 10:26:13 am »
agreed. then what we are doing is probably the best way to replace the government. it will be difficult for them to hide this from their voters in the event of a total fail.
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Offline Go Big

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Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
« Reply #816 on: December 05, 2013, 11:07:10 am »
Hell a few years ago I was in Melbourn and we traveled along the highway everyday to work and back and this little thing on the window kept going beep beep every time we went under the lights. I asked about the system and was told its electronic tagging. Dont you guys have this they asked? No wonder your roads are up to shit. They bragged about how efficient it is and how the roads have improved and how it has changed their lives. Yes they also complained about the cost but all agreed its worth it in the end.(this is the same road they mentioned in one of the attached articles posted earlier that are having money issues fair enough its being addressed)

Now us South Africans all sat their saying the same thing to each other. If only SA was first world like this. If only we could get this right. If only,  if only..

We all talk about the rest of the worlds great roads and infrastructure. Their trains that are amazing and always on time. the multilane highways that are well maintained and well policed and have all the medical response etc.

Everywhere in the world SA residents go they all say the same thing! If only we could have this if only we could have that. World class Gautrain, World class highways, world class BRT systems in Cape town and elsewhere. Yes you have to pay for these things here and everywhere else in the world. These systems don't happen overnight and cost a fortune!

Do you want the best in the world or not! If you do you gonna have to pay.


fair enough and i think we all agree with good roads and service, i think well for me at least the bitter pill is that 25bn bucks went missing due to corruption, incompetence and greed. now we have to pay our hard earned money to offset these sorts of things, surely if all the coffers were accounted for that money could have changed our toll rates (if they still need to happen) to like 2c a trip? we are being held accountable for the government mistakes. what about them people who spent 10k on nandos in a month? off scott free i bet. we are a third world country with the 5th most expensive tolling. (I saw somewhere.)

Agree with you 100%

Only thing is how do you compare the cost directly. The other countries could have the costs subsidised from ather areas like fuel tax etc

The issue in SA is that we are already paying a moerse lot of tax.  On top of that we pay for health care, education, security, etc etc.  so its easy for an Ozzy or any first world country person to be happy with tolls, since most of his other expenditure is covered by taxes, most likely at a lower rate than ours.

SA is gatvol for a thieving government milking us more and more.

Ohh man come on now, Australia doesn't have everything for free and pay no tax. Been there and had that discussion with them. You are not as hard done by as what you think.
Is this a moerse lot of tax
http://www.ato.gov.au/Individuals/Income%20and%20deductions/How%20much%20income%20tax%20you%20pay/Tax%20rates/

As far as most not paying tax well yes that's the legacy of the country. Must the others all live in squatter camps with nothing for ever and ever. That wont improve anything for anybody. i don't like it but that's just what it is. We have to make it work and unfortunately we have to do some subsidizing.


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Offline J-dog

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Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
« Reply #817 on: December 05, 2013, 11:11:59 am »
Go Big,

I lived there for a long period :-)

Tax base is large and taxes generally quite low. No need to pay for medical, security or education.

Plus cars are cheap and mortgage rates low.

Disposable income is much higher there  :3some:
 

Offline Go Big

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Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
« Reply #818 on: December 05, 2013, 11:14:17 am »
Go Big,

I lived there for a long period :-)

Tax base is large and taxes generally quite low. No need to pay for medical, security or education.

Plus cars are cheap and mortgage rates low.

Disposable income is much higher there  :3some:

Ohhh please you pay tax for medical and still have to top up with private cover!
Wher did you live in Oz! the free part :imaposer:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/expathealth/7898820/Expat-guide-to-Australia-health-care.html


I can go on all day as to how they make you pay for everything there.
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Offline Veldbrand

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Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
« Reply #819 on: December 05, 2013, 11:21:24 am »
That shit is irrelevant considering the fact that we pay for our roads to be built and maintained by paying huge taxes and absurd fuel levies that get shifted between corrupt officials who pay like 280 bar for a road to Nkandla and if there are not enough funds to cover everybody's personal needs they mindlessly just siphon funds from everybody's pension fund to sort it out.
And then have the fucking cheek to restrict your movement by extorting tolls from all of us.
Fuck'm again
« Last Edit: December 05, 2013, 11:22:23 am by Veldbrand »


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