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Offline KiLRoy

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Re: Taking the fight to a new level - DefCon 2
« Reply #100 on: December 04, 2013, 10:21:41 am »
ICM - the part I dont get is ---- if you intend not to use the toll roads, why get an etag?
 

Offline KiLRoy

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Re: Taking the fight to a new level - DefCon 2
« Reply #101 on: December 04, 2013, 10:24:24 am »
if you want to congratulate Sanral on their great system - you can contact them here

info@sa-etoll.co.za
 

Offline GRIM

Re: Taking the fight to a new level - DefCon 2
« Reply #102 on: December 04, 2013, 10:52:44 am »
if you want to congratulate Sanral on their great system - you can contact them here

info@sa-etoll.co.za

Don't forget to phone to check that they recieved your email...

0800 726 725
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Offline madmax

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Re: Taking the fight to a new level - DefCon 2
« Reply #103 on: December 04, 2013, 11:14:00 am »
fukk carike keuzenkampf  ,  spineless supporter of corruption


5 out of 6 aint bad  -  Carike is obviously a privileged ignorant conformer in most things

im gonna kill all my records of her..no wait i dont have any..oh well spineless wimp nkandla supporter
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Offline KiLRoy

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Re: Taking the fight to a new level - DefCon 2
« Reply #104 on: December 04, 2013, 11:23:38 am »
fukk carike keuzenkampf  ,  spineless supporter of corruption


5 out of 6 aint bad  -  Carike is obviously a privileged ignorant conformer in most things

im gonna kill all my records of her..no wait i dont have any..oh well spineless wimp nkandla supporter

die fokken slet :imaposer:
 

Offline alanB

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Re: Taking the fight to a new level - DefCon 2
« Reply #105 on: December 04, 2013, 11:30:27 am »
Quote
My ideas are merely my ideas and in no way or reason should be construed as an endorsement of any behaviour or seen as a directive.

Ideas:

1. Don't use the toll roads at all ...very logical actually ..... if this results in lateness at work etc etc etc companies will soon start putting pressue on govt to remove these, taxes from companies are a huge source of revenue.
2. REmove all number plates , completely ...... not only will this make it impossible to catch anyone but the billing falls flat ,,finished en klaar ....no plate no bill ..
3. There must be some very clever IT ppl here, I would imagine some even clever enough to hack the sanral databases an destroy them over an over again....
4. explore these electrical options mentioned.... I am no electrical engineer, if there is an opportunity then it should be explored.
5. understand how the gantries work...how they connect ,how the process information....pinpoint the weak areas....
6. boycott any business that have supported the etolls whether directly or indirectly ..
7. Call carike keuzencamp names
8. Vote DA - the only real alternative ....but hey vote AGANG if that floats yr boat ..but vote this is the crux.....instead of washing your hair that day or being away ,make the effort and VOTE.
9. see no3 , but target the call centre/website/etc.
10. call carike keuzenkamp names.

problem is that a lot of the above calls for everyone to be involved and that is where saffers fail miserably , us law abiding citizens don't know how to operate outside of this paradigm.....not getting tagged is not unlawfull, u well within yr rights to do so....but its like just waiting for the knock on the door with the summons...u okes believe this will never happen, I happen to believe it will happen this is where we differ.

Finally!

Something constructive  :thumleft:

I agree with many of your points - but don't let that affect you  :biggrin:

Although you do spoil it a bit at the end by saying it wont work again.... :-\

The only point you and I really differ on, is you don't seem to want to try anything - because you seem to think its all hopeless.

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Offline KiLRoy

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Re: Taking the fight to a new level - DefCon 2
« Reply #106 on: December 04, 2013, 11:34:25 am »
I dont agree - I think he is bullshitting us.  Why get a etag if you dont intend driving on the toll roads.  he is lying
 

Offline madmax

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Re: Taking the fight to a new level - DefCon 2
« Reply #107 on: December 04, 2013, 12:10:38 pm »
Drivers still avoiding e-toll routes

 December 4 2013 at 10:27am
By SAPA

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--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 



Independent Newspapers

File photo: Karen Sandison


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Traffic was heavy on Johannesburg roads on Wednesday morning as motorists continued to avoid provincial tolled highways, Johannesburg metro police said.

“Over and above, people are using alternative routes and they have been avoiding the N1, N3, and N12 since yesterday,” spokeswoman Edna Mamonyane said.

She said traffic on the M1 North to the Johannesburg city centre was very heavy. The flow was also affected by traffic lights not working at major intersections.

Mamonyane said she did not know how long motorists would avoid the tolled routes.

“We cannot say if motorists will eventually get e-tags or not at all.”

Democratic Alliance Gauteng MPL Neil Campbell said the alternative routes were not viable.

“One of the roads on this list of alternatives is Witkoppen Road which already carries a huge volume of traffic and has a collapsing bridge.”

Prominent engineers had expressed serious concerns regarding motorists' safety on the road but nothing had been done to fix the bridge.

“I hope no lives are lost before this process is complete as the blame for any loss of life will then rest squarely on the shoulders of Gauteng roads and transport MEC Ismail Vadi.”

Vadi's spokeswoman Octavia Mamabolo could not be immediately reached for comment. -Sapa
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Offline madmax

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Re: Taking the fight to a new level - DefCon 2
« Reply #108 on: December 04, 2013, 12:23:00 pm »
Gauteng back roads 'not a solution'

 December 4 2013 at 08:13am
By Tebogo Monama and Zanele Mukhari

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--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 



INLSA

Transport minister does not believe that many motorists will use alternative roads, like the Old Johannesburg Road, for very long. File photo: Antoine de Ras


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Thousands of motorists who abandoned Gauteng freeways when the electronic tolling system started yesterday are not expected to keep to their alternative routes for long.

Minister of Transport Dipuo Peters and South African National Road Agency Limited (Sanral) head Nazir Alli said the department expected motorists to move back on to the freeways because the alternative routes would be congested and would mean extra time on the road.

Yesterday was the first day of the e-toll system and motorists who were not registered opted to use back routes and not the highway.

Traffic on the highways was lighter than usual.

Motorists opted to use the Old Johannesburg Road to travel between Pretoria and Joburg.

Nelmapius Road, an alternative route to Joburg through Irene, was closed because of flooding after last week’s heavy rains.

Emergency services spokesman Johan Pieterse said: “It’s unclear when the road will be fixed, but only a few cars are using the road.”

Alli said: “The numbers are showing the right trend. We believe that as time goes by more people will come to register.

“The increase in the number of registrations happened after the court case yesterday (on Monday).”

The Freedom Front Plus court bid to have the e-tolls implementation halted was struck off the roll by the Pretoria High Court.

NEARLY 800 000 REGISTERED

Alli said after the conclusion of the case on Monday, 29 000 motorists registered for the system. Nearly 800 000 motorists were registered, he said, adding that 50 percent of the registered were private individuals and the rest company fleets.

Registered users will pay 30c/km and unregistered ones 59c/km.

Sanral board chairwoman Tembakazi Mnyaka said: “Over time, people will go back to the highways. They need to get to where they are going on time and the other routes will be clogged. We are doing this because we want to make the roads safer. Unfortunately, we can only widen the road so much and have already done that. That is why we have an integrated public transport system. People have to use buses and the Gautrain.”

Peters said: “The monthly toll costs to individual users are much overestimated by critics of the project.

“Actual expected monthly tariffs payable by light motor vehicles show that about 83 percent will pay not more than R100 per month and 0.59 percent of motorists in the same class of vehicles will reach the maximum monthly cap of R450. More than 65 percent of road users in Gauteng use public transport. This means that the students, the workers will not be affected by the tolls.”

The Opposition to Urban Tolling Alliance (Outa) maintains that Sanral is misleading the public over tolls when it says the cost of e-toll collections is only 17 percent of the revenue generated by e-tolling.

Wayne Duvenage, Outa chairman, said in the US, e-toll administration and collection cost over 5 percent. “The 17 percent is simply excessive, unacceptable and well outside any reasonable benchmark.”

CRIMINAL RECORD THREAT

Peters cautioned motorists about getting criminal records for not paying for use of the highways. “We do not want a situation where people have criminal records for not paying. It is the morally correct thing to do to pay for an upgraded road system.”

Justice Project South Africa (JPSA) says it still has unanswered questions over how the billing process will work. The organisation sent a letter to Sanral and the department asking for clarity, but was threatened with legal action.

JPSA chairman Howard Dembovsky said they had asked their legal team to write to Sanral and the department for a response.

“Should we again get no joy from doing so, we will be left with no alternative but to consider approaching the high court for clarity on this matter.

“Should we be forced to approach the high court, we are reasonably confident that the court will not punish us for simply asking for clarity over statements which have resulted in an enormous amount of misinformation being disseminated by Sanral and others,” Dembovsky added.

Cosatu vowed to continue its fight against e-tolls and said the government had demonstrated its stubbornness and unwillingness to co-operate with workers.

“December 3 will represent the day on which our government has refused to listen to the views of the people and the poor,” Cosatu Gauteng secretary Dumisani Dakile said.

“It represents a clear demonstration of cadres who have been power-drunk and believe that they could do as they so wish,” Dakile told reporters. -Pretoria News
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Offline alanB

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Re: Taking the fight to a new level - DefCon 2
« Reply #109 on: December 04, 2013, 12:31:23 pm »
Quote
Minister of Transport Dipuo Peters and South African National Road Agency Limited (Sanral) head Nazir Alli said the department expected motorists to move back on to the freeways because the alternative routes would be congested and would mean extra time on the road.

Bloody extortion! 

If what they were doing was for our benefit then how can they say this?  They are basically saying "we have you by the ball's you have to pay us".

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Offline GRIM

Re: Taking the fight to a new level - DefCon 2
« Reply #110 on: December 04, 2013, 12:31:49 pm »
Gauteng back roads 'not a solution'




Yep, my suburb only has 2 entrances, both onto old pretoria rd by the Woodmeade offramp. The whole lot was gridlocked this morning.
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Offline punisher

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Re: Taking the fight to a new level - DefCon 2
« Reply #111 on: December 04, 2013, 12:32:36 pm »
Pieters saying its "moral" thing to do to pay for road upgrades .... Bwahahaha

I do pay you f ing cnut , stop stealing you locust
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Offline Dwerg

Re: Taking the fight to a new level - DefCon 2
« Reply #112 on: December 04, 2013, 12:36:29 pm »
Do government employees pay their own toll fees or does that come out of our taxes??  :patch:
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Offline alanB

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Re: Taking the fight to a new level - DefCon 2
« Reply #113 on: December 04, 2013, 12:41:22 pm »
Do government employees pay their own toll fees or does that come out of our taxes??  :patch:

Well their salary is paid by you, so whether their department pays for them (which I suspect would be the case for senior people, (can't have royalty being bothered by common stuff like this as they flash past the little people in their blue light convoys), or whether they pay it themselves, you pay it in the long run IMO.
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Offline Dwerg

Re: Taking the fight to a new level - DefCon 2
« Reply #114 on: December 04, 2013, 12:43:31 pm »
Do government employees pay their own toll fees or does that come out of our taxes??  :patch:

Well their salary is paid by you, so whether their department pays for them (which I suspect would be the case for senior people, (can't have royalty being bothered by common stuff like this as they flash past the little people in their blue light convoys), or whether they pay it themselves, you pay it in the long run IMO.

Ok let me then rephrase. Will there be additional provision for it in the budget? And will the budget be adjusted or taxes raised? And if the budget is adjusted, where will they lower expenses to cover for it?
« Last Edit: December 04, 2013, 12:46:37 pm by Dwerg »
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Offline KiLRoy

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Re: Taking the fight to a new level - DefCon 2
« Reply #115 on: December 04, 2013, 12:49:55 pm »
It easy for government to include etoll fees in their next government employee salary adjustment ---- iow, CPX eg 6% plus R450 increase.

But I guess, to answer your question, that government employees will pay for etolls out of their own pockets except for senior people who has government cars?
 

Offline Dwerg

Re: Taking the fight to a new level - DefCon 2
« Reply #116 on: December 04, 2013, 12:54:58 pm »
I'm not really too bothered for an answer, just pointing out that there could be implications over and above irate commuters, food prices etc
« Last Edit: December 04, 2013, 12:55:21 pm by Dwerg »
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Offline punisher

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Re: Taking the fight to a new level - DefCon 2
« Reply #117 on: December 04, 2013, 12:58:33 pm »
ICM - the part I dont get is ---- if you intend not to use the toll roads, why get an etag?


Some people can't help themselves ,they only know one way, and that is to willingly feed the locusts
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Offline alanB

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Re: Taking the fight to a new level - DefCon 2
« Reply #118 on: December 04, 2013, 01:02:52 pm »


I have no issue with someone who honestly feels that etolls are a good thing, but I think this guy is missing the point.

He's basically saying that we should be happy because we wont have to stop at the gantry, and other tolls were accepted where you do have to stop so this is better - that's why we should accept the scheme?

In my mind the reason why as many people didn't complain about many of those older tolls were:
1) In many cases a whole new road was built when none was before
2) There was always a reasonably fair alternative route available
3) Most people did not travel that road every day
5) The scheme wasn't introduced with such little regard for vehement opposition to the idea.
6) The company's that benefited from those schemes had to raise their own finance to get the project off the ground (I guessing), that's what normally happens in a BOT (Build Operate Transfer) model in which the government essentially gets infrastructure for free in exchange for allowing a private company to recover their investment plus a predefined profit by operating the infrastructure for a while before transferring it to the government.
7) The government introducing those older tolls did not have as bad a track record of blatant corruption and self enrichment.
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Offline Koet

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Re: Taking the fight to a new level - DefCon 2
« Reply #119 on: December 04, 2013, 01:16:13 pm »
Sub
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