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Offline COLES

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2013 GS 1200 LC
« on: December 09, 2013, 09:28:00 am »

Hi Dogs

I have just returned from a great gravel road trip up around Prince Albert

Question         has any one on a L C found the engine become very noisy, the same clatter that the GS 800 has
I also find on start up that the L C motor has the initial clatter for a few moments

Great bike all round please lets have your constructive comments

Coles from P E     

 

Offline lecap

Re: 2013 GS 1200 LC
« Reply #1 on: December 09, 2013, 11:36:42 am »
Start up clatter is usually caused by a hydraulic timing chain tensioner.

Sometimes it happens sometimes not it depends in which position the engine stops (with the timing chain under tension will produce clatter on start up) and for how long you wait until re - starting.

Harmless.

You are not alone. Other bikes clattering are for example BMW - Rotax singles and KTM LC8 twins.

If you are worried: There are simple fixes. How simple depends on how easily the timing chain tensioner(s) can be accessed and modified. The simplest fix involves restricting the way the hydraulic tensioner piston can be pushed back by inserting a spacer.
Note that the modification could have implications on maintenance procedures and can even mess up things seriously if you get it wrong. I do not know how the mechanism looks in the new BMW engine. If you decide to go this way get some advice from someone who knows what's important.
If you fcuk it up and BMW finds out it will certainly void your warranty. Means DIR or let it rattle :D
« Last Edit: December 09, 2013, 11:39:56 am by lecap »
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Offline lecap

Re: 2013 GS 1200 LC
« Reply #2 on: December 09, 2013, 11:43:56 am »
Re the noisy engine:
I am not sure but I notice that on lots of more recent bikes. The bikes actually get quieter due to more stringent noise emissions regulations. With the overall quieter bike the mechanical racket produced by the engine (which mostly will be noticed by you riding the bike since it does not travel as far as the lower frequency exhaust noise).
In the old days you simply did not hear the mechanical noise produced by the engine since it was droned out by the exhaust.

Fix. Buy a performance pipe :lol8:
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Offline Lord Knormoer

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Re: 2013 GS 1200 LC
« Reply #3 on: December 09, 2013, 10:33:34 pm »
Must say I have not noticed anything but will now listen and report back.
 

Offline ChrisL - DUSTRIDERS

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Re: 2013 GS 1200 LC
« Reply #4 on: December 09, 2013, 10:42:50 pm »
 @ Lecap my 1200 has camchainrattle on startup only on the rightside when hot.

If I put a spacer under the spring of the tentioner will it not strech the camchain faster?

It is an 2006 and only liquid cooled when riding in the rain ;D
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Offline lecap

Re: 2013 GS 1200 LC
« Reply #5 on: December 10, 2013, 08:31:32 am »
@ Lecap my 1200 has camchainrattle on startup only on the rightside when hot.

If I put a spacer under the spring of the tentioner will it not strech the camchain faster?

It is an 2006 and only liquid cooled when riding in the rain ;D

Cam chain tensioners come in three basic variants:

Screw type
Ratchet type
Hydraulic

Interestingly they actually don't do what their name suggests since chains don't like one thing in particular: Running under tension :D
Your timing chain tensioner is actually a timing chain slack eliminator. Regardless of what type is used. Springs or hydraulic pressure don't actually put any meaningful tension onto the timing chain but merely move the mechanism which then is mechanically or hydraulically locked.


The screw type is self locking by design. Pressure on the tensioner will not move it. A coiled torsion spring turns the screw to take up chain slack.

The ratchet type has a coil spring moving a plunger and a ratchet which prevents the plunger form being pushed back by the tensioner.

The hydraulic tensioner uses engine oil pressure to move a small hydraulic plunger to take up the chain slack. Some of these tensioners have a little coil spring inside which gives the plunger a bit of preload.
It sometimes will not prevent the tensioner from collapsing if the engine stops in a position where you have tension on the timing chain - especially on the bit of chain which pushes against the tensioner.
Some hydraulic tensioners simply rely on a one way valve which allows oil in but prevent it from being pushed out when the engine is switched off. Leakage of the one way valve or the plunger itself will also cause this type to collapse.

The fix is simple:
All you want to do is prevent the tensioner from being pushed back too far by putting something into the hydraulic cylinder. If your hydraulic tensioner has a spring installed you fit the spacer INSIDE the spring to limit the amount of travel of her plunger, not to preload the spring :thumleft:

The actual fix always depends on the design of the tensioner in question. In some cases you may have to manufacture a longer plunger or a modified end cap for the hydraulic cylinder.


There is a fix for rattling Oilhead right side timing chains. I did it on the R1100GS donkeys years ago.
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Offline Dawid S

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Re: 2013 GS 1200 LC
« Reply #6 on: December 10, 2013, 11:01:51 am »
Coles
Go read on Avidrider.
The decompression on the camshaft works centrifugal, thus "activate " at low engine revolutions and tend to be noisy.

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=884688   
 

Offline COLES

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Re: 2013 GS 1200 LC
« Reply #7 on: December 12, 2013, 10:48:44 am »

Le Cap

Would the use of the thin oil being used[POWER 1RACIN 4 T 5W4O] have any cause contributing to the noisy engine

You reply's are greatly appreciated

coles from P E 
 

Offline lecap

Re: 2013 GS 1200 LC
« Reply #8 on: December 13, 2013, 08:21:10 am »
Coles
Go read on Avidrider.
The decompression on the camshaft works centrifugal, thus "activate " at low engine revolutions and tend to be noisy.

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=884688  

Could you maybe please link to the reply not the thread? It's 110 pages to read through and look for the decompressor story ???

I am quite surprised to see they have a decompressor (have they?) in a twin cylinder. This is a typical single cylinder feature which allows a smaller less power hungry starter and a smaller battery to haul the engine across compression stroke and over TDC.

Decompressors only work at revs quite a bit below idle. You can often hear them rattle if you force the engine speed to below idle just before it cuts out, if you stall or switch off the engine. On starting up as soon as the engine fires up and idles you will not be able to hear the decompressor any more. If it rattles after firing up it will most likely be something else.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2013, 08:27:38 am by lecap »
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Offline lecap

Re: 2013 GS 1200 LC
« Reply #9 on: December 13, 2013, 08:23:36 am »

Le Cap

Would the use of the thin oil being used[POWER 1RACIN 4 T 5W4O] have any cause contributing to the noisy engine

You reply's are greatly appreciated

coles from P E 

Using a lower viscosity oil may make the start up noise a bit more pronounced. I am not sure to what extent and if it would be noticeable at all.
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Offline COLES

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Re: 2013 GS 1200 LC
« Reply #10 on: December 13, 2013, 09:14:20 am »

Thank u for the detail in which you have addressed my question     dealers put it down to the engine just being noisy

Once again thank u


coles from P E
 

Offline Dawid S

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« Last Edit: December 13, 2013, 12:29:19 pm by Dawid S »
 

Offline lecap

Re: 2013 GS 1200 LC
« Reply #12 on: December 13, 2013, 10:36:48 pm »
Thanks Dawid S for the links.

What puzzles me a little bit is that they seem to have set the threshold at which the decompressor activates very close to the idle speed of the hot engine. This is actually not necessary for the device to do its job as you only really need to blow off compression when the starter just got to work.
Usually your cranking RPM ('bout 300RPM - 500 RPM) is quite a bit less than idle which allows you to place the decompressor activation / deactivation threshold nicely in between the two.

I don't see any real danger of anything going wrong because of the tic tack. - Except from maybe a sensitive owner who expected a silky idle and is now going to strip his moer and buys a Honda :lol8:

Let's see if BMW quietly modifies the exhaust cams at some stage? :D
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Offline TheBear

Re: 2013 GS 1200 LC
« Reply #13 on: December 14, 2013, 10:37:34 am »
Thanks Dawid S for the links.

What puzzles me a little bit is that they seem to have set the threshold at which the decompressor activates very close to the idle speed of the hot engine. This is actually not necessary for the device to do its job as you only really need to blow off compression when the starter just got to work.
Usually your cranking RPM ('bout 300RPM - 500 RPM) is quite a bit less than idle which allows you to place the decompressor activation / deactivation threshold nicely in between the two.

I don't see any real danger of anything going wrong because of the tic tack. - Except from maybe a sensitive owner who expected a silky idle and is now going to strip his moer and buys a Honda :lol8:

Let's see if BMW quietly modifies the exhaust cams at some stage? :D

When I went from the DL1000 to my first GS I was shocked at how noisy the GS engine was.  Then,  one day, I realised that most of the noisy bits in the GS motor hangs out the sides while all of the noisy bits of the DL were snugly under the tank and seat.  Now,  the GS hoes,  poep en knor while cold bugs me no more.  If it still bugs anyone else,  go find a nice expensive car.  Open bonnet.  Stick head inside directly on engine.  Ask buddy to cold start.  You'd be surprised at all the noises.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2013, 10:55:21 am by AMZ »
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Offline lecap

Re: 2013 GS 1200 LC
« Reply #14 on: December 14, 2013, 02:28:48 pm »
Cars only became quiet when they started to fit the fluffy stuff into engine compartments the marten love to build their nests from :D
And all the plastic panels and covers which prevent you from servicing your car quickly and efficiently.

On some cars you open the bonnet and it looks as if the bonnet is still closed :-\

I think if they would attempt to sound proof a BMW boxer it would look kind of shite :-\ :lol8:
« Last Edit: December 14, 2013, 02:29:18 pm by lecap »
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Offline capeklr

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Re: 2013 GS 1200 LC
« Reply #15 on: December 14, 2013, 04:59:13 pm »

Le Cap

Would the use of the thin oil being used[POWER 1RACIN 4 T 5W4O] have any cause contributing to the noisy engine

You reply's are greatly appreciated

coles from P E 

Using a lower viscosity oil may make the start up noise a bit more pronounced. I am not sure to what extent and if it would be noticeable at all.

The thinner the oil the faster the engine is lubricated on cold start up.
 

Offline lecap

Re: 2013 GS 1200 LC
« Reply #16 on: December 19, 2013, 09:18:54 am »

Le Cap

Would the use of the thin oil being used[POWER 1RACIN 4 T 5W4O] have any cause contributing to the noisy engine

You reply's are greatly appreciated

coles from P E 

Using a lower viscosity oil may make the start up noise a bit more pronounced. I am not sure to what extent and if it would be noticeable at all.

The thinner the oil the faster the engine is lubricated on cold start up.

Another important factor is the time the oil goes through the oil filter bypass after a cold start. The thick 20W50 goo of the old days will refuse to get filtered and force its way through the oil filter bypass for much longer. Unfiltered oil = more wear.
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Offline Slovac

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Re: 2013 GS 1200 LC
« Reply #17 on: January 18, 2014, 09:57:32 pm »

Le Cap

Would the use of the thin oil being used[POWER 1RACIN 4 T 5W4O] have any cause contributing to the noisy engine

You reply's are greatly appreciated

coles from P E 

Using a lower viscosity oil may make the start up noise a bit more pronounced. I am not sure to what extent and if it would be noticeable at all.

The thinner the oil the faster the engine is lubricated on cold start up.

Another important factor is the time the oil goes through the oil filter bypass after a cold start. The thick 20W50 goo of the old days will refuse to get filtered and force its way through the oil filter bypass for much longer. Unfiltered oil = more wear.
So the half second rumbling at cold start is actually a good thing. The Germans think of everything  :peepwall:
 

Offline COLES

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Re: 2013 GS 1200 LC
« Reply #18 on: January 19, 2014, 09:28:19 am »

Le Cap you the man even the Technicians could not explain the rumble on start up charged me over 2 thousand rand for the engine oil    but after a real shout match got a refund     

Thanks 
 

Offline lecap

Re: 2013 GS 1200 LC
« Reply #19 on: January 20, 2014, 10:09:42 am »
I can supply Ravenol Motobike Ester 5W40 API SM & JASO MA2 which is exactly what BMW specifies to be used for the K50 engine.

R 72 per litre.

Or you buy bulk from the suppliers in CT (SOS Oil). Even cheaper.

Then you tell the dudes who try to sell you their R250/l oil where the sun does not shine :lol8:
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