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Online Bundu

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Re: E-Toll Invoice
« Reply #40 on: December 20, 2013, 11:24:33 am »
form JPSA:


Below is a media release with respect to the harassment of so-called e-toll “violators”.

JPSA MEDIA STATEMENT – FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
TO:   ALL NEWS AND TRANSPORT EDITORS
DATE:   THURSDAY 19 DECEMBER 2013
SUBJECT:   ILLEGAL HARASSMENT OVER E-TOLL “VIOLATIONS” TO BE HALTED
As reported in the Star Newspaper of today, Traffic fines management company, Fines4U (Pty) Ltd has been inundated with emails and SMS messages from TMT Services (Pty) Ltd in their capacity as tender winners for running the SANRAL “Violations Processing Centre – (VPC)” since Friday the 13th of December.  It was immediately apparent that TMT Services (Pty) Ltd had gleaned the personal particulars of Mrs Cornelia van Niekerk from a website called PayMyFines.co.za.

The Electronic Communications and Transactions (ECT) Act forbids the unauthorised use of personal electronic contact details belonging to any person and PayMyFines.co.za own terms and conditions expressly state that “We will not disclose personal information collected about you without your express consent thereto or through due legal process.”

Yesterday, Fines4U’s lawyers, Dewey Hertzberg Levy Inc. wrote to TMT Services to demand that they cease and desist with the unauthorised use of Mrs van Niekerk’s personal particulars or face court action and today received a reply from TMT Services’ lawyers giving an undertaking that TMT would indeed no longer use any of the personal information held by PayMyFines.co.za.

A further letter was sent to the lawyers for TMT Services today demanding that telephone calls from them are also ceased because they make similar use of the personal information provided to PayMyFines.co.za.  In addition, the effect of these incessant phone calls are blocking her lines and making it impossible for her to do her work.

Fines4U is not the only victim of the abuses perpetrated by TMT Services, acting on behalf of SANRAL and scores of other members of the public, all of whom apparently also happen to be registered with PayMyFines.co.za have been complaining about being hounded.

“By stark contrast, those who are not registered with PayMyFines.co.za but have driven on the Gauteng e-toll roads have not heard a word from the VPC,” said JPSA’s Howard Dembovsky.  “I know this because I am one of those who have driven on them and I have not paid – nor have my friends,” he continued.

JPSA advises that people who continue to be hounded by TMT Services should simply quote the undertaking given to Fines4U by TMT Services to cease abusing the personal information they hold since there is no logical reason why they should treat any person differently.  If however the abuse continues, there is nothing to stop people banding together to institute a “class action” to have an interdict issued against TMT Services and JPSA will be happy to help the public facilitate this.

Both, TMT Services and SANRAL must stop acting like thugs, stick to the legislated requirements of sending invoices to people within 32 days after the expiry of the 7 day “grace period” and obey the laws they expect others to obey.

ENDS

Best Regards,

Howard Dembovsky
National Chairman - Justice Project South Africa (NPC)
 

Offline Frog

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Re: E-Toll Invoice
« Reply #41 on: December 20, 2013, 06:12:11 pm »
I also received an SMS today asking me to register ???
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Offline Mzee

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Re: E-Toll Invoice
« Reply #42 on: December 21, 2013, 07:26:34 am »
I also received an SMS today asking me to register ???


You look worried  ;D
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Offline Rooikat

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Re: E-Toll Invoice
« Reply #43 on: December 21, 2013, 12:39:54 pm »
I've just watched "The Bike Show" on Ch 189 on DsTv and they gave an excellent summary of the present e-tolling debacle, including interviews with Wayne Duvenage and Dubrovsky. A must see for all the "draadsitters" and those idiots who have already bought e-tags. I'll be posting on Facebook and I hope everyone seeing this will ask their friends to watch!

Channel 189:

                          Saturday           18h00
                           Sunday            10h00
                                                   16h00
                                                   22h00       
             
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Offline Frog

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Re: E-Toll Invoice
« Reply #44 on: December 21, 2013, 02:27:23 pm »
I also received an SMS today asking me to register ???


You look worried  ;D
Not any more, I quickly went out and bought an e tag
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Offline Mzee

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Re: E-Toll Invoice
« Reply #45 on: December 22, 2013, 07:27:08 am »
I also received an SMS today asking me to register ???


You look worried  ;D
Not any more, I quickly went out and bought an e tag

Oh noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!  You did what?  :biggrin:
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Offline Rooikat

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Re: E-Toll Invoice
« Reply #46 on: December 22, 2013, 12:05:56 pm »
Haven't received an invoice? YOU STILL GOTTA PAY (according to scumral)


Invoice or not, e-tolls must be paid - Sanral
Dec 22 2013 10:32 Sapa   

Johannesburg - Not paying toll fees is against the law, regardless of whether an invoice is issued, Sanral said on Sunday.

"Not paying your toll fees is not just a traffic offence, but a criminal one," SA National Roads Agency Limited (Sanral) spokesperson Vusi Mona said in a statement.

"The legal obligation to pay toll arises from using the toll road and passing underneath a gantry, not from an invoice that is forwarded to the road user."

Mona said this was contained in all the signs posted along the tolled roads, and which indicated that payment had to be made within seven days.

"Sanral is using legally available resources at its disposal to contact vehicle owners. We are issuing notices, with invoices to follow, in order to alert road users that they have outstanding debt."

Anyone who said different was "misleading" the public, he said.

He said the courts had already ruled on matters relating to the e-tolls.

"It is regrettable that there are some organisations which are still contesting the legality of e-tolling outside court processes."

Earlier this week, the Justice Project SA (JPSA) urged Sanral and the transport department to go to court to seek legal clarification as to the validity of conflicting tolls tariffs published in the Government Gazette.

The English and Afrikaans versions of e-toll tariff notices published in the Government Gazette differed in the amounts stipulated.

"It is not for anyone to prove the lawfulness of acting under invalid legislation, but for the department to obtain confirmation of the high court as to clarity thereof and enforceability of the administrative action based on conflicting legislation." said JPSA chair Howard Dembovsky.

However, transport department spokesperson Tiyani Rikhotso said at the time that the "noted mistake in question won't affect the validity of the legislation."

Dembovsky then suggested the department was trying to "wish away their 'mistakes'".

The Star newspaper reported that, according to Dembovsky, users of the paymyfines website were receiving e-toll bills by e-mail even though they were not registered e-tag users, or had not given their e-mail address to Sanral.

The newspaper reported that its own investigation had found that the company running the paymyfines website and the website etcrecovery.co.za, which was sending the e-mails demanding e-toll money, were part of the same company - TMT Services.

A South African company, TMT was part of the Austrian company Kapsch TrafficCom, which runs the e-toll project.

However, at the time, Mona said that Sanral was obtaining information for invoices from eNatis, the national administration traffic information system, and from a "database legally obtained from third parties".


Do these idiots REALLY think this crap is going to work? They're sunk!
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Offline alanB

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Re: E-Toll Invoice
« Reply #47 on: December 22, 2013, 12:18:39 pm »
This is illogical how much do you pay if they don't send you an invoice?

They cannot shift the onus onto you to do there admin for them!

Otherwise what stops me from paying any amount and claiming that was what I thought I owed? 

If they won't/can't send out invoices what are they going to do about requests for proof of transactions?  Do you have to try sort that out yourself as well?

Nothing here is in the interests of the motorists!
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Online Bundu

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Re: E-Toll Invoice
« Reply #48 on: December 22, 2013, 12:33:10 pm »
...........

Mona said this was contained in all the signs posted along the tolled roads, and which indicated that payment had to be made within seven days.
.............

so if we were to start destroying these signs, everybody can use the roads for free?
« Last Edit: December 22, 2013, 12:33:57 pm by Bundu »
 

Offline alanB

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Re: E-Toll Invoice
« Reply #49 on: December 22, 2013, 02:24:04 pm »
I think this is an issue on very shaky legal footing which needs to be challenged in court.

They cant refuse to do the admin just because people didn't buy etags and then try and shift that responsibility onto those motorists.

In every other business transaction an invoice is required for payment, even SARS sends you an assessment FFS!

In any normal world, you would wait for a bill in the post - why is this suddenly different?

All that article really amounts to is an admission that their systems cant cope if large numbers of  people continue to resist  :thumleft:
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Offline Rooikat

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Re: E-Toll Invoice
« Reply #50 on: December 22, 2013, 02:43:18 pm »
Watch Ch 189 on DStv at 16h00 this afternoon - very illuminating insight given by Duvenage and Dubrovsky!

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Online Bundu

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Re: E-Toll Invoice
« Reply #51 on: December 22, 2013, 03:28:08 pm »
Watch Ch 189 on DStv at 16h00 this afternoon - very illuminating insight given by Duvenage and Dubrovsky!

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Offline Rooikat

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Re: E-Toll Invoice
« Reply #52 on: December 22, 2013, 04:03:17 pm »
Wat makeer jy? Dis fokken Sondag middag!
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Re: E-Toll Invoice
« Reply #53 on: December 22, 2013, 04:08:43 pm »
Wat makeer jy? Dis fokken Sondag middag!

is so! ek wil net nie dat 'n russiese spy ons moet adviseer nie  ;)
 

Offline Rooikat

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Re: E-Toll Invoice
« Reply #54 on: December 22, 2013, 04:38:58 pm »
The e-toll debate is hotting up! Check news24 for reports (I see they have removed some of them - just type e-toll and search their site).
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Offline Mr Zog

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Re: E-Toll Invoice
« Reply #55 on: December 23, 2013, 12:39:37 pm »
http://www.fin24.com/Economy/Sanral-under-fire-over-invoice-statement-20131223

Jissis these Samral idiots are something special...  :eek7:
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Re: E-Toll Invoice
« Reply #56 on: December 23, 2013, 12:50:15 pm »
http://www.fin24.com/Economy/Sanral-under-fire-over-invoice-statement-20131223

Jissis these Samral idiots are something special...  :eek7:

fucking cnuts!
If I had an e-tag, I would have now cancelled it after all these threats from these bastards - who the hell do they think they are? :xxbah:
 

Offline alanB

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Re: E-Toll Invoice
« Reply #57 on: December 23, 2013, 01:40:47 pm »
http://www.fin24.com/Economy/Sanral-under-fire-over-invoice-statement-20131223

Jissis these Samral idiots are something special...  :eek7:

Its worth reproducing that here in full, just in case people start taking their threats seriously  :thumleft:

Quote
Sanral under fire over invoice statement
Dec 23 2013 11:33 Fin24   
tolls

A picture poking fun at e-tolls that went live despite widespread public opposition. (Fin24 user Ruggero Piovesan)
Related Articles
Reason for e-tolls 'hilarious' - expert
Invoice or not, e-tolls must be paid - Sanral
E-toll tariffs debate intensifies
Sanral faces debt danger
Sanral sticks to its guns on e-tag sales
Sanral: R500 e-toll fines bogus
 
Cape Town - Justice Project South Africa (JPSA)  on Monday lashed out at national roads agency Sanral's latest "threat against motorists" over e-tolls, saying its statement contained factually inaccurate information and showed a scant understanding of e-tolling processes.

“The provisions of the Sanral Act and e-road regulations are not a wish-list – they are the law and for (Sanral spokesperson) Vusi Mona to claim otherwise is simply bizarre,” said JPSA chairperson Howard Dembovsky.

He was reacting to the Sanral statement on Sunday which said that not paying e-tolls is against the law, regardless of whether an invoice is issued.

Dembovsky said regulation 6(5) of the e-road regulations is not only clear, but prescriptive. "It says that Sanral must issue an invoice to any person from whom it requires payment of outstanding e-tolls.

“The word 'must' in legislation is not an ambiguous word in any way; it is a prescriptive word which places a duty on the party against whom it is applied,” he said.

In response to Mona’s statement that “it is regrettable that there are some organisations which are still contesting the legality of e-tolling outside court processes”, JPSA pointed out that it has challenged the Department of Transport to obtain a declaratory order deeming the provisions of the e-tolling laws to be valid in light of the “mistakes” contained in the e-toll tariff gazette.

“If Sanral chooses not to obtain this clarity, they run the risk of forcing citizens to approach the courts to do so,” Dembovsky said. “In the long run, this could cost Sanral much more than fixing the error now."

Dembovsky said Mona's threat that "not paying toll fees may have unintended consequences which
can affect one's life, (like) getting a job, renting a vehicle or accommodation, getting a loan, being a company director, getting promoted” is both inaccurate and juvenile.

He said Sanral's attitude is loathsome, "especially in light of the fact that the AARTO Act decriminalises road traffic offences which includes non-payment of tolls".

"AARTO makes provision under charge codes 3820 and 3821 under Schedule 3 of the Act to deal with these matters.”

Dembovsky said that AARTO was in force in a large proportion of the jurisdictions the Gauteng Freeway Improvement Project (GFIP) passes through and "this anomaly was just one of the questions posed to the Department of Justice, Department of Transport, NPA and Sanral".

"If AARTO is applied to speed fines on the respective freeways then AARTO applies to all minor infringements such as non-payment of toll fees, and the DoT will know that AARTO specifically decriminalises traffic violations and no one can be guilty of a criminal offence for non-payment as Sanral claims.

“JPSA is still awaiting clarification of the issues raised,” Dembovsky said.

To me this is a pretty clear indication that SANRAL are in trouble.  Too many people have not got etags and they dont have the means to send out the required amount of invoices and are trying to find a way around that.  :thumleft:
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Offline Mr Zog

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Re: E-Toll Invoice
« Reply #58 on: December 23, 2013, 02:26:52 pm »
To me this is a pretty clear indication that SANRAL are in trouble.  Too many people have not got etags and they dont have the means to send out the required amount of invoices and are trying to find a way around that.  :thumleft:

Hammer, nail, head...  :thumleft:


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Offline Rooikat

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Re: E-Toll Invoice
« Reply #59 on: December 23, 2013, 05:45:18 pm »
He, he, he! The fun and games have started even earlier than I thought:

This from Facebook (visit the site to see the hilarious comments)


1 million motorists refuse to pay eTolls

SANRAL FACES HUGE PROBLEM WITH CLONED NUMBER PLATES.

One fleet owner has been billed for several vehicles that were in KZN at the time SANRAL says they were passing under gantries. SANRAL have not provided him with a detailed invoice and insist that he pays.

This is evidence of a system that is already failing.

There is a huge problem with cloned number plates, so you need an invoice WITH photos. DO NOT PAY until you have all the detailed information

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