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Offline alanB

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Specific Questions that need answers
« on: December 12, 2013, 08:27:39 pm »
OK it was suggested to make a thread where people can post questions that need answers.

Those answers may or may not be forth coming from the knowledge base available but it would be worthwhile keeping track of them

As the answers arrive we will post them here as well.

Please keep your posts relevant as far as possible.

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Offline alanB

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Re: Specific Questions that need answers
« Reply #1 on: December 12, 2013, 08:30:01 pm »
Can they read my license disc?

Quote from Groweblaar who works in that industry
Quote
I don't have info on the specific system, but from knowledge of the field, I can tell you with 99.9% certainty that no commercial system will be able to recognize the license disk travelling at 120km/h in your window.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2013, 08:42:47 pm by alanB »
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Offline alanB

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Re: Specific Questions that need answers
« Reply #2 on: December 12, 2013, 08:31:30 pm »
What powers do the SANRAL officers have?
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Offline alanB

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Re: Specific Questions that need answers
« Reply #3 on: December 12, 2013, 08:36:11 pm »
Whats the best way to defeat/confuse the OCR (optical character recognition) reading my number plate?


Again from Groweblaar
Quote
I work for a company that develops custom Computer Vision systems. I haven't worked on ANPR (Automatic Number Plate Recognition), but I can tell you that commercial ANPR algorithms are seriously advanced and can deal with a a high margin of noise and error.

That said, the first step in the multi-stage process, is image segmentation or "localization", which attempts to isolate your plate in the image. I'm not sure how sophisticated this algorithm is in the specific system used by eToll, but something like the van showed earlier would certainly make it work harder and, perhaps, make mistakes:




« Last Edit: December 12, 2013, 08:38:53 pm by alanB »
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Offline Bundu

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Re: Specific Questions that need answers
« Reply #4 on: December 12, 2013, 08:37:53 pm »
What will the process be if I decide not to pay?
 

Offline Bundu

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Re: Specific Questions that need answers
« Reply #5 on: December 12, 2013, 08:39:26 pm »
Can not paying risk my credit record?
Can not paying prevent me from renewing my licence?
 

Offline Bundu

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Re: Specific Questions that need answers
« Reply #6 on: December 12, 2013, 08:42:39 pm »
What powers do the SANRAL officers have?

How should officers that are acting outside their powers best be handled?
 

Offline Bundu

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Re: Specific Questions that need answers
« Reply #7 on: December 12, 2013, 08:45:58 pm »
and probably the most basic, but import question:
What should our strategy be? Avoid the roads? Make number plate recognition difficult? Delay payment? Refuse payment?
« Last Edit: December 12, 2013, 08:46:33 pm by Bundu »
 

Offline alanB

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Re: Specific Questions that need answers
« Reply #8 on: December 12, 2013, 08:48:42 pm »
Does the government really have the constitutional right to deny people access to roads that have been there for generations, which they use to earn a living?
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Offline alanB

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Re: Specific Questions that need answers
« Reply #9 on: December 12, 2013, 08:53:15 pm »
and probably the most basic, but import question:
What should our strategy be? Avoid the roads? Make number plate recognition difficult? Delay payment? Refuse payment?

Maybe this should become a thread on its own?  Yay or Nay?

My personal strategy is all of the above.  If I can avoid a gantry I will, if not I will delay payment and then probably refuse if I can.

Avoiding the gantries is actually the best option, that way you incur no liability and they get no money!  But its a pain in the butt - today I had to drive from Edenvale to other side of Randburg right through centre of town in rush hour. 
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Offline Bundu

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Re: Specific Questions that need answers
« Reply #10 on: December 12, 2013, 08:53:49 pm »
the law says: "the Agency must within 32 days after the alternate user has used an e-road but after expiry of the grace period and unless the user has registered, send an invoice to the said user"

Does that mean that Sanral is in breach of the law if I don't get an invoice within that period and my 'debt' expires?
 

Offline Bundu

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Re: Specific Questions that need answers
« Reply #11 on: December 12, 2013, 08:56:09 pm »
and probably the most basic, but import question:
What should our strategy be? Avoid the roads? Make number plate recognition difficult? Delay payment? Refuse payment?

Maybe this should become a thread on its own?  Yay or Nay?

My personal strategy is all of the above.  If I can avoid a gantry I will, if not I will delay payment and then probably refuse if I can.

Avoiding the gantries is actually the best option, that way you incur no liability and they get no money!  But its a pain in the butt - today I had to drive from Edenvale to other side of Randburg right through centre of town in rush hour. 

maybe separate thread rather  :thumleft:

I don't believe avoiding gantries to be sustainable in numbers and effective enough
 

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Re: Specific Questions that need answers
« Reply #12 on: December 12, 2013, 09:01:05 pm »
 :sip:
 

Offline KiLRoy

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Re: Specific Questions that need answers
« Reply #13 on: December 12, 2013, 09:04:25 pm »
Who owes what ito Sanral and related shareholding

How do we make interests and income transparent

Since the roads are now privately owned. What is the SLA they have with road users and when can i demand not to pay if i receive bad service, eg major traffic jams, etc

What are my rights ito privacy of my information and movement. How does this align with the PoPI act?
 

Offline alanB

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Re: Specific Questions that need answers
« Reply #14 on: December 12, 2013, 09:04:58 pm »
and probably the most basic, but import question:
What should our strategy be? Avoid the roads? Make number plate recognition difficult? Delay payment? Refuse payment?

Maybe this should become a thread on its own?  Yay or Nay?




maybe separate thread rather  :thumleft:


Ok started another thread just for this question http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=140733.0
« Last Edit: December 12, 2013, 09:07:10 pm by alanB »
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Offline alanB

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Re: Specific Questions that need answers
« Reply #15 on: December 13, 2013, 07:58:47 am »
How long do SANRAL store the foto's for?

What happens if you demand proof of transaction and they no longer have the proof?
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Offline alanB

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Re: Specific Questions that need answers
« Reply #16 on: December 13, 2013, 10:28:21 am »
How do I check on my outstanding balance without registering on the site?

Quote
Just paste this URL link into your browser.  

https://www.sanral.co.za/e-toll/portal/PayTollFeesUnregisteredUsers.aspx

But beware SANRAL tries to trick you into registering, so the first response you get is going to ask you to register.  Just repaste the URL and try again, it will eventually switch to a different screen that will allow you to enter your number plate without having to register on their site.

Please note - if you register on their site you will have to agree to their terms and conditions, which may prejudice your rights.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2013, 10:49:01 am by alanB »
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Offline Groenie

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Re: Specific Questions that need answers
« Reply #17 on: December 13, 2013, 10:54:48 am »
I spoke to a guy that worked on the initial planning and implementation of their IT system. It was after a couple beers, so I can't remember everything he said.

But, he recons the cameras CAN see your license disc even at 160km/h.
Very high resolution cameras are used- 3 per lane, and they compare their images to resolve the picture.
I can't remember the exact figure, but they store quite a few Peta bytes per day! That's why they only keep the pics for 30 days.
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Offline KiLRoy

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Re: Specific Questions that need answers
« Reply #18 on: December 13, 2013, 10:56:06 am »
How do I view the photos in order to verify without registering
 

Offline Groenie

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Re: Specific Questions that need answers
« Reply #19 on: December 13, 2013, 10:59:18 am »
Log a dispute
Don't look back, that's not where you're going.