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Author Topic: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?  (Read 16432 times)

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Offline alanB

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Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
« Reply #40 on: January 07, 2014, 03:58:29 pm »
OK guys stay on topic, and cut out the personal attacks.
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Offline Koet

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Offline punisher

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Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
« Reply #42 on: January 07, 2014, 04:06:23 pm »
No one disputes the roads have to be paid for , in despute is the funding (efficient) methods used

Nothing "personal" but all who have fallen for the scumral and got tags are head in the sand softies ( to put it mildly)
Grow a pair please , not for my sake , but for your own childrens sake , coz if this goes thru , there is no stopping them to how far they will go to steal from you , and your kids
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Offline Bundu

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Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
« Reply #43 on: January 07, 2014, 05:44:36 pm »
:thumleft: good for you, I am not going to get involved and personnal. I and many others decided to play safe. Over 1,6 million others to be more spesific. Don't ask me where I got the numbers, not thumb sucking though...it's for real. Cheers :)

Why on earth would Sanral under declare the number of e-tags?

Why does he quote "number sold", can't his ultra expensive "user pays" system tell him how many are "registered"?



"One month after the launch of e-tolling in Gauteng, the South African National Roads Agency Limited (Sanral) says 960,000 e-tags have been sold"

http://ewn.co.za/2014/01/07/Sanral-960000-etags-sold?fb_action_ids=762999730396116&fb_action_types=og.recommends&fb_source=other_multiline&action_object_map=
« Last Edit: January 07, 2014, 05:46:32 pm by Bundu »
 

Offline Chukudeer

Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
« Reply #44 on: January 07, 2014, 06:13:16 pm »
 :lol8: :lol8: :lol8:

Me thinks that's how many cell numbers they purchased........
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Offline Bundu

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Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
« Reply #45 on: January 07, 2014, 07:02:16 pm »
:lol8: :lol8: :lol8:

Me thinks that's how many cell numbers they purchased........

fucking idiots! I've used the highways quite a bit and received nothing from the farkers, not an SMS, not an email, not a call and not an invoice - I'm starting to feel 'left out'  ;)
« Last Edit: January 07, 2014, 07:02:43 pm by Bundu »
 

Offline Bundu

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Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
« Reply #46 on: January 07, 2014, 09:20:57 pm »
The COPE argument is just playing the man, not the ball. It serves no purpose.

At least my argument is on principle and playing the ball.

Attacking me, will not not make my point that conforming to etolls is supporting corruption and government bullying, less valid.  So try again. 

 :thumleft:

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Offline alanB

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Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
« Reply #47 on: January 08, 2014, 08:16:01 am »
Ok I did ask you guys to stop the personal attacks.

All the infamatory posts have been deleted.

Further action is pending.
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Offline Bundu

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Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
« Reply #48 on: January 08, 2014, 11:49:40 am »
some interesting info from the facebook page of the "Proudly e-Tag Free" group



"Lets set something straight.

VPC is a division of SANRAL (Violations Processing Centre) and is NOT A DEBT COLLECTOR.

These SMSs and emails from SANRAL are sure signs of a failing system. The SMSs are part of an intimidation strategy deployed by SANRAL.

What you have received is not an invoice nor a statement so you do not have to pay. There is a huge problem with cloned number plates and SANRAL has said you don't have to pay if your bill is incorrect due to a cloned plate. Therefore they have to provide you with a detailed, itemized original invoice and photographic proof of each and every gantry pass before you can be expected to pay.

In their terms and conditions they clearly state they have to send you an invoice within 32 days after the 7 day grace period.

Our advice is to ignore the SMS and do not get a tag or register. Request a detailed invoice.

Furthermore they need to send you original tax invoices, NOT copy tax invoices as you cannot submit these to SARS.

In order to determine if all the items billed for are in fact your vehicles and not cloned plates, there has to be a photo of each and every gantry pass. On all the invoices we've seen, there are only 3 photos of a SINGLE gantry pass (front, back and side) - this is unacceptable.

Please share this information
Visit and like our page www.facebook.com/proudly.etagfree"
 

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Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
« Reply #49 on: January 08, 2014, 01:48:03 pm »
Allrighty, while I still can post pending further action and seeing as the notion of principle was raised lets look at some of the facts here:

1. It is now LAW to pay for the usage of certain highways in Gauteng. In a nutshell if you use the road you must pay for it. Finished en klaar , this is law as it currently stands. I know OUTA and the COPE's bedmates the FF+ are proposing to test this in the Con court however currently it is law. This is not law only for those that have etags, but law for anyone that uses and goes under these gantries. To date neither OUTA or FF+ have actually achieved any victories in their battles, although OUTA did get the whole system delayed but not stopped. So to date SANRAL 1 - OUTA etc 0

2. The purchasing of an etag does not legitimise something that is already in operation. Again this is clear, its already law ....

3. Those opposing these toll roads ( and I can assure you that even those with tags would prefer NOT to pay tolls we taxed enough as it is) are not opposing the fact that we should pay but opposing the fact we should get tagged. the general consensus is that " I will pay when they drag my ass to court" kinda thing. And you know what, you well within yr legal rigths to do so. If you want to spend extra money and get a big bill you are welcome to this, its a free country and while I think that's madness live an let live hey.  If anyone is proposing we actually break the law and refuse to pay well then we on shaky ground cos then you opening a Pandora's box which may not be that easy to close later on...you cant just decide which laws are ok to break an which not...we are already a society that is fairly lawless and I think it prudent to obey the law.

4. There is a lot of emotion around this and I think that is indicative of our society as a whole , all is NOT well in ZA, the ANC are proving to be the worst damn govt this beautiful country as ever had. I sued the highways when they were modified back in the early 90's , no tolling needed.

5. The principle of user pays is as old as the Roman days and I daresay possibly predates that too, I concede the current system is inefficient and lots of money goes overseas however to expect ole piet in Orania to pay for a road he will never use is not exactly right either. A fuel levy also has implications that are far reaching.

6. can we actually afford SANRAL to fail on this one? seriously can we?

My position on this is neither indicative of a vote of confidence in the ANC, SANRAL or any of its affiliation or an endorsement of the system, my position is one of expediency for me. If OUTA and thoise opposing the purchase of etags are prepared to pay the difference at the end of the day then sure I will get rid of it. What OUTA don't tell you is that you , yes you, will be liable for your entire bill should their applications fail.

Ultimately the biggest problem around the whole thing is the lack of knowledge and how rumours spread like wildfire and are accepted as truth , even by ppl are generally more discerning. If any rumour fits their paradigm they latch onto it like a cat to a mouse. PErfect example is the pic with the cameras missing at a gantry. Ppl were high fiving each other and saying look look....no one bothered to think , hang on a minute if cameras at one have been stolen why not at all....strange that ne...

me, to date my total e toll bill has come to 43 cents ...yip ..and that is cos I did not realise there was a bloody gantry as one comes into jhb from the south after a cycling event.

Etolls have now been around for 5 weeks give or take , and we still have yet to get one protest ride off the ground , and we still resorting to name calling....

So all you champions of the resistance, what is your bill to date?

« Last Edit: January 08, 2014, 01:51:09 pm by IceCreamMan »
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Offline KiLRoy

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Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
« Reply #50 on: January 08, 2014, 02:04:06 pm »
I can assure everyone that although I dont agree with ICM's opinion and actions in this regard (as explained many times) I do like the old drol in person and am backing out of the heaqted stuff for the sake of good personal relations :thumleft:

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Offline Ganjora

Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
« Reply #51 on: January 08, 2014, 02:07:40 pm »
So all you champions of the resistance, what is your bill to date?

no idea,  i haven't received one yet.
and,
when i do,
i will make sure that SANRAL does absolutely everything which is prescribed in the Act.
I will,  of course,  eventually have to pay,
BUT,
if i make them spend more on the recovery (or as close to it as possible),  then the actual toll was,
i will have won myself a small victory.

wrt old piet in orania,
Gauteng basically subsidise the whole country when it comes to tax.
he can fucking well pay his fuel levy.
 

Offline punisher

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Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
« Reply #52 on: January 08, 2014, 02:25:27 pm »
There have been at least 4 protest rides, and several "static" ones at offramps , where were u ??

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Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
« Reply #53 on: January 08, 2014, 02:50:00 pm »
I can assure everyone that although I dont agree with ICM's opinion and actions in this regard (as explained many times) I do like the old drol in person and am backing out of the heaqted stuff for the sake of good personal relations :thumleft:

I love you ICM O0

I love you too Kilroy ..a whole lot and these debates just strengthen my love for you  :biggrin:
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Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
« Reply #54 on: January 08, 2014, 02:50:25 pm »
There have been at least 4 protest rides, and several "static" ones at offramps , where were u ??



must of been bloody effective ones hey
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Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
« Reply #55 on: January 08, 2014, 02:54:51 pm »
So all you champions of the resistance, what is your bill to date?

no idea,  i haven't received one yet.
and,
when i do,
i will make sure that SANRAL does absolutely everything which is prescribed in the Act.
I will,  of course,  eventually have to pay,
BUT,
if i make them spend more on the recovery (or as close to it as possible),  then the actual toll was,
i will have won myself a small victory.

wrt old piet in orania,
Gauteng basically subsidise the whole country when it comes to tax.
he can fucking well pay his fuel levy.

absolutely within your right to do so my good man ...... but it is possible that their additional costs may end up being borne by you hey ..... u know legal fees, tracking fees , jimmy abbot fee etc etc ...

I know that, in Gauteng we subsidize the whole country and we subsidize them deadbeats on welfare that will never pay tax etc etc but is it really fair to tax oom piet? By doing that you advocating something you against in the first place (ie subsidising others)

Ganjora, just in case you wondering , I love you as much as I love Kilroy hey ...  where da kiss kiss icon
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Offline punisher

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Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
« Reply #56 on: January 08, 2014, 03:09:34 pm »
There have been at least 4 protest rides, and several "static" ones at offramps , where were u ??



must of been bloody effective ones hey

They were quite ,
 sadly due to the spineless ,innactive , keyboard warrior attitude , from the majority of affected people , they werent as effective as they could have been , but we will keep trying , on behalf of all , especially as it is a totally innefective way of collecting the monies needed to build and maintain our roads , hey fukkkk some has to do it hey , even if the affore mentioned people enjoy slagging us off
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Offline Mr Zog

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Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
« Reply #57 on: January 08, 2014, 03:10:37 pm »
I hear your opinion on this debate ICM, but here is my opinion;

Firstly its not law to get tagged, so I won't.
Secondly, Sanral MUST bill me in accordance with the law. Basically they have 32 days to do so, after the expiry of the 7 day period of grace.
Thirdly, I am hoping that the opposition to e-toll (OUTA, FF+, etc) will win their court case, and e-tolls will be binned.

I will pay, when Sanral complies with the Act, and bills me accordingly. AND PROVES that it was my vehicle at EACH and EVERY gantry they bill me for.

Simple.

I'm not breaking any laws, in fact I'm insisting that Sanral complies...  :pot:
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Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
« Reply #58 on: January 08, 2014, 03:16:02 pm »
There have been at least 4 protest rides, and several "static" ones at offramps , where were u ??



must of been bloody effective ones hey

They were quite ,
 sadly due to the spineless ,innactive , keyboard warrior attitude , from the majority of affected people , they werent as effective as they could have been , but we will keep trying , on behalf of all , especially as it is a totally innefective way of collecting the monies needed to build and maintain our roads , hey fukkkk some has to do it hey , even if the affore mentioned people enjoy slagging us off

Welcome to the Saffer syndrome ...... we all bitch an whine but when called to actually do something we have to wash our hair or something..
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Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
« Reply #59 on: January 08, 2014, 03:20:48 pm »
I hear your opinion on this debate ICM, but here is my opinion;

Firstly its not law to get tagged, so I won't.
Secondly, Sanral MUST bill me in accordance with the law. Basically they have 32 days to do so, after the expiry of the 7 day period of grace.
Thirdly, I am hoping that the opposition to e-toll (OUTA, FF+, etc) will win their court case, and e-tolls will be binned.

I will pay, when Sanral complies with the Act, and bills me accordingly. AND PROVES that it was my vehicle at EACH and EVERY gantry they bill me for.

Simple.

I'm not breaking any laws, in fact I'm insisting that Sanral complies...  :pot:

absolutely right and well within your rights to do so.

where does this 32 day period come from and where does it state you are excused if not received, where is this formulated?

Edit: if you are referring to the below be well aware of the fact that if the letter does not get to you within 39 days, it does not mean you are excused. The act is also silent on a number of issues , I look forward to them being tested

In terms of regulation 6(5) of the e-Road regulations "If an alternate user does not pay the toll contemplated in terms of sub-regulation (4) within the time and at the place and subject to the conditions that the Agency may make known and determine, the Agency must within 32 days after the alternate user has used an e-road but after expiry of the grace period and unless the user has registered, send an invoice to the said user, to the last known address provided in terms of the National Road Traffic Act by such user, reflecting the amount of the toll payable and such invoice shall be paid by the said user on or before the date reflected on the invoice."
« Last Edit: January 08, 2014, 03:36:22 pm by IceCreamMan »
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