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Offline hond

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Re: Motorcycle accidents
« Reply #20 on: February 01, 2008, 11:31:04 am »
Being a biker for about 26 years, I am quite biased towards the biker's side of the story. We all had our experiences with cars and idiots on the roads but not so long ago I was the idiot in the car. On a recent trip with my d/cab, I overtook an interlink after waiting for traffic from ahead. Had to pick up speed from his 90km/h while passing. Geared down and floored the 3 litre since I hate being in that danger zone. Ahead was a blind rise but more than enough space and time to pass if a car came over the hill at our customary 120 - 140km/h. Halfway past the truck a Busa came flying over the hill and I saw trouble coming. I made it just in time while the Busa rider spent half his time braking and the other half on showing me signs.

I felt extremely bad since I know the feeling that biker just had but afterwards realised that he was the "wrong" one. Nobody on the road makes provision for objects approaching you at a combined speed of close to 400km/h. If you want to ride hard, do it where it is safe but if you prefer to do it where you cannot work the thinking part on behalf of the idiot car driver into the equation, then I am afraid you are the loser for that round.

Classic example. Last week Saturday afternoon my son told to me to listen to the guys on their bikes in the city riding their bikes to the limit. Those 600's screamed their lungs out and being an old toppie I told him it is not the place to do it. Monday morning the newspaper headline read "Biker killed in collision". I don't care whether the car driver skipped a stop sign or not, that 24 year old biker is dead because he did not think on behalf of the idiot behind the wheel. There is no Eutopia and we will always have idiots on the road. We as bikers must catch a wake up and drive even more careful even if we look like sissies to the "real" manne. A bike can't beat a car in a collision, just accept it.
 

Offline Eisbein

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Re: Motorcycle accidents
« Reply #21 on: February 01, 2008, 11:32:37 am »
Sorry to be all negative like, but I believe we are responsible for our own safety
It has been shown time and time again that cagers don't see us. We are small and we are fast and we look nothing like a car.

If you believe that everyone should be on the lookout for you...then you will probably get knocked down and be partly responsible for your own injuries.
C'mon guys, we are all intelligent grownups and we have all driven cars before. Anticipate how motorists will drive and predict their actions with a dose of pessimism. If you can't read traffic then you should seriously consider avoiding it because the problem just might lie with you.

I've always said that as long as I'm the one who can break and get hurt I will not get hurt or die trying to prove that I'm right or have right of way.

I think the issue is like Bun Booyens had last year.
Coming on a normal road at 60. Woman sits at stop street joining that road (only stop street for side road). Biker approaches - in the speed limit and with headlight on. Woman pulls in front of him at the very last minute where the only thing you can do is try and jump over the car.

In THAT case it should be her that should be held responsible.

Lane splitting and the rest is where you have more control over yourself and can anticipate the environment.

But in general I ride and act like EVERYONE on the road is out to get me.
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« Last Edit: February 02, 2008, 11:20:01 pm by Eisbein »
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You have touched us and left us better for having known you - even if it was only briefly.

For grabbing the moment and living the day It's been way too early that you were taken away
 

Offline Eisbein

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Re: Motorcycle accidents
« Reply #22 on: February 01, 2008, 11:35:43 am »
Hond, you have a point - 'sperstrepe' (solid lines?) are done with a certain speed limit in mind.
The guy going too fast is intruding in the oncoming guy's way - not the other way around.

You can be on the safe side on your side of the hill and if he was doing the speedlimit you would have been out and out of his way before he gets to you. But if he's riding/driving too fast...

02/02/12 - RIP Glen - the Arrow of Elliot and the little man with the big heart that truly was larger than life.

You have touched us and left us better for having known you - even if it was only briefly.

For grabbing the moment and living the day It's been way too early that you were taken away
 

Offline SlŠinte Mhaith

Re: Motorcycle accidents
« Reply #23 on: February 01, 2008, 12:07:38 pm »
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« Last Edit: July 01, 2012, 02:37:37 pm by SlŠinte Mhaith »
 

Offline Ama ride ride

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Re: Motorcycle accidents
« Reply #24 on: February 01, 2008, 12:12:18 pm »
Sorry to be all negative like, but I believe we are responsible for our own safety
It has been shown time and time again that cagers don't see us. We are small and we are fast and we look nothing like a car.

If you believe that everyone should be on the lookout for you...then you will probably get knocked down and be partly responsible for your own injuries.
C'mon guys, we are all intelligent grownups and we have all driven cars before. Anticipate how motorists will drive and predict their actions with a dose of pessimism. If you can't read traffic then you should seriously consider avoiding it because the problem just might lie with you.

Basically you are saying that 90% of the WD's who got knocked off their bikes by cages were daydreaming about Pamela b@@bs?

I think my question were answered by JonW.

Gewoontlik n@@i ek reguit aan op fyndraai.

 

Offline SlŠinte Mhaith

Re: Motorcycle accidents
« Reply #25 on: February 01, 2008, 12:17:14 pm »
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« Last Edit: July 01, 2012, 02:37:40 pm by SlŠinte Mhaith »
 

Offline I&horse

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Re: Motorcycle accidents
« Reply #26 on: February 01, 2008, 12:48:03 pm »
Someone said in a similar thread, "I ride as if everyone is out to kill me, I don't make any moves until I can see the whites of the cagey's eyes and make sure he saw me and my intentions". Who dat??
I thought that was the best description of how we feel out there.

I love the fact that I can split lanes and get to work quicker than by cage, but I hate the fear of actually doing it and worrying about cageys!!

Taxi's........, don't split lanes past them unless they are completely blocked and stationary. They will frikkin split lanes themselves where they can. I FAAAARKING HATE TAXI DRIVERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Offline Brink

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Re: Motorcycle accidents
« Reply #27 on: February 01, 2008, 10:07:29 pm »
Blonde get run over by a Uno.
When asked what happened - didn't you see the car?
Yes she says - but I thought it was a big Toyota Minivbus that was still far away ;D ;D ;D

The reality is that cagers are trained/conditioned to observe objects in the same frame/size reference than they themselves are driving.

This creates an artificial "blindspot" for them where even though they observe the bike they cannot compute the size aand speed dimension in relation to their training.

The same applies to trucks which have a high incidense of colliding with mainly smaller minicars that are so evident these days.

I believe that in Europe with their high bike/scooter usage the problem is greatly reduced as the frame of reference for the cagers (from a young age already) are way different fom ours.

Proof of this "theory" can be linked to the planespotter training done during WWII where the spotters were first shown the large versions of the enemy and allies planes for identification and gradually these images were reduced to mere pinpricks (slighty exageration but illustrates the point) where the spotters could identify the planes with amazing accuracy.

Do your best to educate your non biking friends about the issues that we face.

Long story short - Make sure that you take the initiative to make up for the shortcomings of the average cage driver.
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Offline Adventurer

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Re: Motorcycle accidents
« Reply #28 on: February 02, 2008, 10:05:34 pm »
Fit a HID headlight and wear a WD reflective vest, you'll be more visible.... ;D ;D
If you can keep your head in the midst of all this confusion, you don't understand the situation!
 

Offline keithk

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Re: Motorcycle accidents
« Reply #29 on: February 03, 2008, 06:48:25 am »
"Sorry to be all negative like, but I believe we are responsible for our own safety "

"It has been shown time and time again that cagers don't see us. We are small and we are fast and we look nothing like a car."

The point I want make is that the drivers of cars are conditioned to be aware of other cars and trucks that can "hurt"them and are not concerned about Pedestrians and bikers as they do not pose a serious threat to their safety, thus they do not "see" us.  I find that I have to ride firstly defensively and  then aggressively at the same time to survive out there.

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GreenMamba1974

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Re: Motorcycle accidents
« Reply #30 on: February 03, 2008, 02:15:25 pm »
Since I've taken up biking my caging habits have improved a lot regarding bikes on the road and driving more safely in general.  If only every cager could experience what it is like to ride a motorbike, things would be a lot different.

As South Africans, as a nation we have a very poor safety record.  We all need to take a chill pill and respect others on the road, even if they are driving like a twatwaffle, going 40km/h in the fast lane etc... just chill mon!   O0  O0  O0  O0  O0  O0  O0  O0  O0  O0  O0  O0  O0  O0
 

Offline Kamanya

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Re: Motorcycle accidents
« Reply #31 on: February 03, 2008, 06:54:03 pm »
I "won" my on-the-spot-road-side court case of negligence against a woman who failed to stop at a stop street only because as I was lying on the pavement with her saying, "I stopped and next minute he came flying out of nowhere" the bergie who was watching this lot goes,

"Ag Kak man, tjy hetie gestop nie!"

She paid me R1000 for "damages" (only my indicator lens broke, but the tank and seat came off - they did that all the time anyway. Was an old XT500).

Moral is I supose - get witnesses.
I wonder where that gravel road goes? And that, has usually made all the difference. (Apologies to Mr Frost)

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Offline I&horse

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Re: Motorcycle accidents
« Reply #32 on: February 03, 2008, 07:16:57 pm »
I "won" my on-the-spot-road-side court case of negligence against a woman who failed to stop at a stop street only because as I was lying on the pavement with her saying, "I stopped and next minute he came flying out of nowhere" the bergie who was watching this lot goes,

"Ag Kak man, tjy hetie gestop nie!"

She paid me R1000 for "damages" (only my indicator lens broke, but the tank and seat came off - they did that all the time anyway. Was an old XT500).

Moral is I supose - get witnesses.

Me XT500, Nissan bakkie, and deur die kak driver, I got a bit worse off, broke both legs but I had witnesses!!! Docket was lost, so I opened the case against the oke again, thanks for  witnesses. He got a small fine........... I have bandy legs......
This one wasn't my fault, although if I had better brakes and drove slower I would probably have been better off.

Moral of the oral. We're small fast and take longer to stop. Work it out for yourself.
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Offline Ama ride ride

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Re: Motorcycle accidents
« Reply #33 on: February 04, 2008, 10:18:21 am »
My main question is not what a biker must do more not to get run over or whose fault it is but the attitude of the courts (read people in charge) in general towards bike accidents.

Its my HO that too many car drivers get away with the "I did not see him" excuse because the courts let them.

Gewoontlik n@@i ek reguit aan op fyndraai.

 

Offline SlŠinte Mhaith

Re: Motorcycle accidents
« Reply #34 on: February 04, 2008, 11:06:37 am »
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« Last Edit: July 01, 2012, 02:42:33 pm by SlŠinte Mhaith »
 

Offline THEdude (R.I.P)

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Re: Motorcycle accidents
« Reply #35 on: February 04, 2008, 12:03:56 pm »
just saw this thred after posting a new topic. How apt, what more can one do to be seen? Was on brights, spotlights on and still got sidewiped this morning! Still fuming  >:(
 

Offline Coala

Re: Motorcycle accidents
« Reply #36 on: February 04, 2008, 12:42:17 pm »
You know what gets me ‚?? I am very careful out there, especially when it comes to intersections.  Even if the light is green, I slow down to a crawl ‚?? now have reflective tape on my top case so that the cages can see me and not be tailended. The other day was slowing down and saw the car coming from behind at a hella-of-a speed ‚?? saw the nose wasn‚??t dipping and pulled out of the way. Guy came screaming past.  So even if you wanna keep yourself from being run over as some idiot skip the red, some idiot can tailend you. Moral of the story ‚?? look left, right, behind and in front of you ‚?? always expect the car coming from whatever direction as the mother of all enemies. God protect us all, for we live in a world full of IDIOTS   
 

Offline Jerrycan

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Re: Motorcycle accidents
« Reply #37 on: February 05, 2008, 02:07:38 am »
Spoke to a 50sh guy on crutches today while waiting for sushi take-aways.  Like I said in the thread of bike-tips I always ask WTF happened to broaden my own knowledge base.  He was on Buel behind a cage that was slowing down, then cage put LEFT flicker on, he saw cager pinch cellphone between ear and shoulder and decided cager was pulling off to talk on phone.  Semi-stripped his moer for the cager, then in a split second he made the decision that cost him his knee, he decided to gooi it past the seemingly indecisive cager utilising the acceleration capabilities of the Buel.  The cager decided on a u-turn.  He was man enough to tune that if he was on a slower bike or just less windgat in his manner of passing he might have stood a chance.

Guy I asked before him (also on crutches) looked over his shoulder to see if his bud was coming and slammed into a cage that did a pitstop for a dog.

One before that, I could actually hear coming, laaitie down the street discovered the thrill of wheelying at too young an age, I heard him doing his thing up and down the rather busy street until he discovered the impaired steering abilities of a bike on just one wheel, connected a car wearing plakkies and shorts and t-shirt.  I told him to shut the fuck up when he asked why his left foot pointed backwards while we waited for the ambulance to arrive.

One before that, on the Ben Schoeman, oke on a B200 delivery bike had a back tyre blow-out, the unbalanced weight of the massive box on the back brought him down, he had an open wound femur fracture, not a nice sight, I assisted him until the ambulance arrived and in all that time no one else stopped to assist.  He said he saw about 20 cars pass before I stopped.

One before that I witnessed, delivery bike lane split past parked truck, truck driver opened door, biker wiped off bike, morsdood.

And so I can go on....

Point is, better your chances as much as you can, speed, booze, arrogance, bad temper, show off, if you eliminate all those you already stand a much better chance to keep riding.

« Last Edit: February 05, 2008, 02:09:12 am by Jerrycan »
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Offline Trailrider

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Re: Motorcycle accidents
« Reply #38 on: February 05, 2008, 06:37:31 am »
I just hate riding in traffic. Lets not kid ourselves, it's bloody dangerous. To those commuting everyday - be safe!