Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register

Author Topic: Carrying weapons on bikes. (A poll to see how you guys feel about it)  (Read 3607 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Strider_GS

  • Pack Dog
  • **
  • Bike: BMW F800GS
    Location: Gauteng
  • Posts: 88
  • Why so serious
Re:
« Reply #40 on: February 15, 2014, 08:08:27 am »
Only draw a weapon when you are going to use it. If you draw your weapon I will asume your going to shoot and therefore I'll shoot firts.

Allen that was a very risky move it could have gone very bad and then your wife was involved as well.  Gentlemen think carefully before getting into a situation. Like the guys avoid shit rather then getting into it. OODA  cycle. Observe, orientate, decide and action. 

My 2 cents.

Sent from my GT-N8000
Who dares wins
 

Offline Tonteldoos

  • Race Dog
  • ***
  • Bike: Honda XL1000V Varadero
    Location: Gauteng
  • Posts: 2,613
  • Thanked: 7 times
Re: Carrying weapons on bikes. (A poll to see how you guys feel about it)
« Reply #41 on: February 15, 2014, 08:11:56 am »
So if neither of them were carrying weapons then they'd both be going home this afternoon to spend the weekend with their families.
What a bullshit post.

They would both be home today if neither of them owned a bike or a car.

Or if neither of them had a job to commute to. JOBS KILL PEOPLE, lets immediately ban all form of work!!
No No it was the e-toll that got them into a rage..

Challenge = Innovation = Change
 

Offline Mr. Python

  • Race Dog
  • ***
  • Bike: Yamaha XT 660 Z
    Location: Western Cape
  • Posts: 1,966
  • Thanked: 19 times
  • Carpe Canum
Re: Carrying weapons on bikes. (A poll to see how you guys feel about it)
« Reply #42 on: February 15, 2014, 08:21:21 am »
I got taken out but a guy in one of those low slung Honda's with the end out exhausted. Y'all know the type, tires right up into the wheel wells.

He did one of those instant lane changes without indicating. My leg between the bike and his car. So I get up shaken but not stirred starting to hobble to the side of the road and he is there shouting the odds starting I was in the wrong chirp chirp yada yada.. I turn and said quietly "dude you didn't indicate" and carry on hobbling to the side.

The fellows whole demeanor changes he's apologetic saying he'll pay and and he's sorry. I think what's up with that  ???

I get to the side of the road and realise, with the fall my jacket road up and the butt off my flock was peaking out. >:D.

The gentleman paid for "all" the damage on my bike from when I got it, no questions asked. Just texted a number and bank details.
Life ....  when I was younger I had all these cool brave quotes and tag lines .... then life happened  ... and I have no socialialy acceptable  words 😶
 

Offline alanB

  • Vendors
  • Grey hound
  • ****
  • Bike: Husqvarna (all models)
    Location: Gauteng
  • Posts: 6,767
  • Thanked: 11 times
    • www.extinction.co.za
Re: Carrying weapons on bikes. (A poll to see how you guys feel about it)
« Reply #43 on: February 15, 2014, 09:01:44 am »
A while ago on an international camera forum a guy posted that he had been mugged while walking around (I think it was in Sydney) and his camera taken off him.

Some of the American forum members mentioned that if he was carrying a gun that wouldn't have happened.  They seem to firmly believe that nobody messes with someone carrying a weapon.

I thought to myself at the time, that in SA where the criminals also carry weapons and are quite prepared to use them, that carrying a weapon may have helped - depending on the circumstances, how aware you are, how competent you are with the weapon, etc

But it could have equally have made the situation worse, you could have been shot, or had the weapon stolen as well - the sight of a gun, isn't necessarily going to make a criminal run a mile here, as the Americans firmly believe.  Over here it can be an attractor, not a deterrent, they want your gun as well as your camera!

So its not straightforward.

If you carry a weapon you need to know how to use it well, and must be ready to use it at a drop of a hat, and know that you will never draw it anger or error.

All in all, I personally have decided it isn't worth the burden.
Husqvarna '09 610TE - Great Bike!

I just finished a SciFi novel Extinction: Task Team, download the preview.
 

Offline Lord Knormoer

  • Knight Kevlar: Order of the Alu Pannier
  • Race Dog
  • ***
  • Bike: BMW R1200GS Adventure
    Location: North West
  • Posts: 3,503
  • Thanked: 87 times
  • Wassie ekkie!
Re: Carrying weapons on bikes. (A poll to see how you guys feel about it)
« Reply #44 on: February 15, 2014, 09:24:41 am »

So its not straightforward.

If you carry a weapon you need to know how to use it well, and must be ready to use it at a drop of a hat, and know that you will never draw it anger or error.

All in all, I personally have decided it isn't worth the burden.

Agreed
 

Offline badseed

  • Ride the adventure
  • Race Dog
  • ***
  • Bike: KTM 690 Adventure
    Location: Western Cape
  • Posts: 709
  • KTM 990S, KTM690R , Vespa 200GT
    • www.wildwood.capetown
Re: Carrying weapons on bikes. (A poll to see how you guys feel about it)
« Reply #45 on: February 15, 2014, 09:30:23 am »
Fact. In most occasions the criminals surprise us with a weapon and if we are armed our weapons are useless. It is impossible (and illegal)to always have your gun out and pre- empt every bad situation  . A large proportion of the ellegal guns out come from legal gun owners ( often highly skilled and able gun owners) who have had their guns taken from them.

And to Rambo that pulled his gun out in front of the taxi dudes, that could so easily have turned out real ugly if those blokes came back 5 mins later with more/bigger guns. You would have been responsible for your own death and the death and whatever else of your lady friend.

Guns only help if you are ready for the trouble . A farmer mate of mine in Stellenbosch , Albertus Costa (one of the toughest nuts I have ever met)  recently paid with his life even though he had his rifle out but was shot by an intruder. He had dogs, a stock of weapons and serious security but they still got him.

Pepper spray and an exit plan (ie run or ride) is the safest and you won't have a murder charge hanging over you. Non lethal paint ball type guns are great for house protection and if the crims take it off you the chances are they can't kill you with it
Owner WildWood Motorcycle Tours South Africa
 

Offline shark_za

  • Old Boys Club
  • Race Dog
  • **
  • Bike: KTM 1190 Adventure
    Location: Gauteng
  • Posts: 987
  • Thanked: 169 times
  • KTM 300
Re: Carrying weapons on bikes. (A poll to see how you guys feel about it)
« Reply #46 on: February 15, 2014, 09:39:19 am »
Like your avatar... this advise is pretty useless.

1. Even if you are surprised your fighting mindset and a method of fighting back can see you though. A recent case of a guy shooting it out with 4x bad guys all armed pointing guns at him is a good example.
2. A lot guns I have seen in crimes these days are ex military and police. 
3. Pepper is for food and paintball guns are toys.

Your mindset is wrong, you have already lost.
 

Offline Lord Knormoer

  • Knight Kevlar: Order of the Alu Pannier
  • Race Dog
  • ***
  • Bike: BMW R1200GS Adventure
    Location: North West
  • Posts: 3,503
  • Thanked: 87 times
  • Wassie ekkie!
Re: Carrying weapons on bikes. (A poll to see how you guys feel about it)
« Reply #47 on: February 15, 2014, 09:39:45 am »
Fact. In most occasions the criminals surprise us with a weapon and if we are armed our weapons are useless. It is impossible (and illegal)to always have your gun out and pre- empt every bad situation  . A large proportion of the ellegal guns out come from legal gun owners ( often highly skilled and able gun owners) who have had their guns taken from them.

And to Rambo that pulled his gun out in front of the taxi dudes, that could so easily have turned out real ugly if those blokes came back 5 mins later with more/bigger guns. You would have been responsible for your own death and the death and whatever else of your lady friend.

Guns only help if you are ready for the trouble . A farmer mate of mine in Stellenbosch , Albertus Costa (one of the toughest nuts I have ever met)  recently paid with his life even though he had his rifle out but was shot by an intruder. He had dogs, a stock of weapons and serious security but they still got him.

Pepper spray and an exit plan (ie run or ride) is the safest and you won't have a murder charge hanging over you. Non lethal paint ball type guns are great for house protection and if the crims take it off you the chances are they can't kill you with it

Exactly :thumleft:
 

Offline ALLEN I

  • Race Dog
  • ***
  • Bike: Honda XRV 750 Africa Twin
    Location: Gauteng
  • Posts: 1,999
  • Thanked: 22 times
Re:
« Reply #48 on: February 15, 2014, 09:41:48 am »
Only draw a weapon when you are going to use it. If you draw your weapon I will asume your going to shoot and therefore I'll shoot firts.

Allen that was a very risky move it could have gone very bad and then your wife was involved as well.  Gentlemen think carefully before getting into a situation. Like the guys avoid shit rather then getting into it. OODA  cycle. Observe, orientate, decide and action. 

My 2 cents.

Sent from my GT-N8000
Yip maybe. Only this incident happend 23 years ago. Wife was armed as well, things were getting ugly, they were pushing each other to start some thing there hole manner since stopping was aggresive, Ok things were a wee bit different in those days, did not threaten them with the gun but when they saw it they stopped there shit and left. Still mantain if it wassent for me been armed i would of had big shit that day. To day things are diferent as we all no, but some times one has to make a judgement call
Biking since the age of 11 nothing beats the freedom when u out there on u baby. Been doing it over 40 years now  (that's life)
Born a Biker, Live like a Biker, Die a Biker
 

Offline ALLEN I

  • Race Dog
  • ***
  • Bike: Honda XRV 750 Africa Twin
    Location: Gauteng
  • Posts: 1,999
  • Thanked: 22 times
Re: Carrying weapons on bikes. (A poll to see how you guys feel about it)
« Reply #49 on: February 15, 2014, 09:58:14 am »
Was no Rambo move. Badseed the up shot of it was and i dont want to come across as racialist is that they were swearing at us and telling us what they were going to do to the misses and force me to watch etc a few had  beer bottles and one or two had knives, no chance to get on the bike to ride away, so the only thing to do was take out the gun. So before you call a guy a Rambo man you have to judge the circumstances. What would you of done? Have i pulled out my gun since, No it has never been necessary
Biking since the age of 11 nothing beats the freedom when u out there on u baby. Been doing it over 40 years now  (that's life)
Born a Biker, Live like a Biker, Die a Biker
 

Offline Eddy81

Re: Carrying weapons on bikes. (A poll to see how you guys feel about it)
« Reply #50 on: February 15, 2014, 11:10:17 am »
Was no Rambo move. Badseed the up shot of it was and i dont want to come across as racialist is that they were swearing at us and telling us what they were going to do to the misses and force me to watch etc a few had  beer bottles and one or two had knives, no chance to get on the bike to ride away, so the only thing to do was take out the gun. So before you call a guy a Rambo man you have to judge the circumstances. What would you of done? Have i pulled out my gun since, No it has never been necessary


What a horrible experience.  Things have changed allot, these days I reckon it's top trumps, somebody pulls out a pistol an the other a shot gun or AK. 

Really happy that your day ended without any trouble or violence.  Do you still think about it when a taxi pulls in next to you and a bunch of the passengers climb out?  I reckon a bad experience like that can stay with a person for very long. 
 

Offline ALLEN I

  • Race Dog
  • ***
  • Bike: Honda XRV 750 Africa Twin
    Location: Gauteng
  • Posts: 1,999
  • Thanked: 22 times
Re: Carrying weapons on bikes. (A poll to see how you guys feel about it)
« Reply #51 on: February 15, 2014, 11:41:24 am »
If i was not armed that day i know that today my life would of been different, so if any of the hot heads out there dont agree with me well thats there problem. But to the question in regards, No not really, did bug me for a while but you cant let an incident like that rule your life, let it go and moved on, took it as a once of senario. (but) maybe its still there as when i pull over for a rest and a taxi stops im imidiately on my guard
Biking since the age of 11 nothing beats the freedom when u out there on u baby. Been doing it over 40 years now  (that's life)
Born a Biker, Live like a Biker, Die a Biker
 

Offline ZAR

  • Pack Dog
  • **
  • Bike: Suzuki DL 650 V-Strom
    Location: North West
  • Posts: 83
Re:
« Reply #52 on: February 15, 2014, 12:05:35 pm »
Only draw a weapon when you are going to use it. If you draw your weapon I will asume your going to shoot and therefore I'll shoot firts.

Allen that was a very risky move it could have gone very bad and then your wife was involved as well.  Gentlemen think carefully before getting into a situation. Like the guys avoid shit rather then getting into it. OODA  cycle. Observe, orientate, decide and action.  

My 2 cents.

Sent from my GT-N8000

We hear this often and what a load of BS.

When you draw you must be PREPARED AND WILLING to use it, but I have changed quite a few potentially deadly encounters into non-events by just drawing my weapon and I believe many others also. Would you rather have a situation escalate into deadly force?

But yes, if you draw only to intimidate and without being prepared or willing to use it you are looking for kark!!!
« Last Edit: February 15, 2014, 12:08:41 pm by ZAR »
When injustice becomes law, Rebellion becomes duty!

A dubious plan decisively executed is more likely to succeed than a very good plan tentatively executed.

To one who has faith, no explanation is necessary.  To one without faith, no explanation is possible.               - Thomas Aquinas (1225 1274) -  2013 -  Suzuki DL650 2007; 2012-2013 Suzuki DL1000 2009 Crashed; 2009-2012 Suzuki DL650 2006 Sold; 2009-2012 PGO G-MAX 125cc 2009 Sold; 1990-1990 Suzuki GSX750 1982 Sold; 1988-1991 Suzuki RG50F
 

Offline alanB

  • Vendors
  • Grey hound
  • ****
  • Bike: Husqvarna (all models)
    Location: Gauteng
  • Posts: 6,767
  • Thanked: 11 times
    • www.extinction.co.za
Re:
« Reply #53 on: February 15, 2014, 12:46:36 pm »
Only draw a weapon when you are going to use it. If you draw your weapon I will asume your going to shoot and therefore I'll shoot firts.

Allen that was a very risky move it could have gone very bad and then your wife was involved as well.  Gentlemen think carefully before getting into a situation. Like the guys avoid shit rather then getting into it. OODA  cycle. Observe, orientate, decide and action.  

My 2 cents.

Sent from my GT-N8000

We hear this often and what a load of BS.

When you draw you must be PREPARED AND WILLING to use it, but I have changed quite a few potentially deadly encounters into non-events by just drawing my weapon and I believe many others also. Would you rather have a situation escalate into deadly force?

But yes, if you draw only to intimidate and without being prepared or willing to use it you are looking for kark!!!

IMO its never straightforward.

If the other guys are just looking for trouble (as some people just do), then drawing your weapon is maybe a good way to warn them off.

But if you draw your weapon, the opposition has to assume you are going to use it and then they may preempt that by shooting first if they are armed as well.

That may very well have happened in the road rage incident in the other thread - one guy draws to scare the other guy, the other guy sees the gun come out and just draws and fires - who knows?

So much depends on the situation and the mindsets and intentions of all involved. 

 
Husqvarna '09 610TE - Great Bike!

I just finished a SciFi novel Extinction: Task Team, download the preview.
 

Offline -D-U-K-E-

Re: Carrying weapons on bikes. (A poll to see how you guys feel about it)
« Reply #54 on: February 15, 2014, 12:51:13 pm »
On short rides in areas with heavy or normal traffic I never carry a firearm.

Around town I usually keep my eyes open for what I call choke points - places I can get through on a bike where a car cannot follow me. If you pick up a scrap with a vehicle and the guy decides to follow/chase you, this usually works to both piss off the driver and get rid of him.

My 800 can probably outrun most cars but being a slow and cautious rider, outrunning a car is not an option for me, hence the choke point idea.

On longer rides I always carry a firearm.

 

Offline ALLEN I

  • Race Dog
  • ***
  • Bike: Honda XRV 750 Africa Twin
    Location: Gauteng
  • Posts: 1,999
  • Thanked: 22 times
Re:
« Reply #55 on: February 15, 2014, 06:57:51 pm »
Only draw a weapon when you are going to use it. If you draw your weapon I will asume your going to shoot and therefore I'll shoot firts.

Allen that was a very risky move it could have gone very bad and then your wife was involved as well.  Gentlemen think carefully before getting into a situation. Like the guys avoid shit rather then getting into it. OODA  cycle. Observe, orientate, decide and action.  

My 2 cents.

Sent from my GT-N8000

We hear this often and what a load of BS.

When you draw you must be PREPARED AND WILLING to use it, but I have changed quite a few potentially deadly encounters into non-events by just drawing my weapon and I believe many others also. Would you rather have a situation escalate into deadly force?

But yes, if you draw only to intimidate and without being prepared or willing to use it you are looking for kark!!!

Every situation is different, As a youngster i worked for a security company (Armed Reaction) Have i shot some body (yes) do  i regret it (no)  Its easy to judge from the side line. Bit different when you facing reality. But yes the old cowboy days are over, I agree hole heart tiddly, if you take out your gun be prepared to use it. Remember one thing it aint a toy so handle it with respect, and remember it isent there to threaten some body with, you bought it to protect your self and your loved ones.
Biking since the age of 11 nothing beats the freedom when u out there on u baby. Been doing it over 40 years now  (that's life)
Born a Biker, Live like a Biker, Die a Biker
 

Offline ZAR

  • Pack Dog
  • **
  • Bike: Suzuki DL 650 V-Strom
    Location: North West
  • Posts: 83
Re:
« Reply #56 on: February 15, 2014, 07:16:13 pm »

Every situation is different, As a youngster i worked for a security company (Armed Reaction) Have i shot some body (yes) do  i regret it (no)  Its easy to judge from the side line. Bit different when you facing reality. But yes the old cowboy days are over, I agree hole heart tiddly, if you take out your gun be prepared to use it. Remember one thing it aint a toy so handle it with respect, and remember it isent there to threaten some body with, you bought it to protect your self and your loved ones.


The point I wanted to make is that it is BS that "if you pull it you use it". Every situation is different. You must be willing and prepared to use it though!!!  :thumleft:

When injustice becomes law, Rebellion becomes duty!

A dubious plan decisively executed is more likely to succeed than a very good plan tentatively executed.

To one who has faith, no explanation is necessary.  To one without faith, no explanation is possible.               - Thomas Aquinas (1225 1274) -  2013 -  Suzuki DL650 2007; 2012-2013 Suzuki DL1000 2009 Crashed; 2009-2012 Suzuki DL650 2006 Sold; 2009-2012 PGO G-MAX 125cc 2009 Sold; 1990-1990 Suzuki GSX750 1982 Sold; 1988-1991 Suzuki RG50F
 

Offline RedRo

  • Pack Dog
  • **
  • Bike: BMW F700GS
    Location: Western Cape
  • Posts: 174
Re:
« Reply #57 on: February 15, 2014, 07:41:25 pm »
Only draw a weapon when you are going to use it.

Ag nonsens.

Jy kyk te veel flieks.

As jy 'n wapen uithaal moet jy beslis weet hoe om dit te gebruik en bereid wees om dit te gebruik indien nodig, maar indien die bedreiging deur die uithaal van 'n wapen geneutraliseer word is daar seker nie 'n probleem daarmee om dit weer te bere sonder om dit te gebruik nie.
 

Offline ALLEN I

  • Race Dog
  • ***
  • Bike: Honda XRV 750 Africa Twin
    Location: Gauteng
  • Posts: 1,999
  • Thanked: 22 times
Re:
« Reply #58 on: February 15, 2014, 10:43:19 pm »

Every situation is different, As a youngster i worked for a security company (Armed Reaction) Have i shot some body (yes) do  i regret it (no)  Its easy to judge from the side line. Bit different when you facing reality. But yes the old cowboy days are over, I agree hole heart tiddly, if you take out your gun be prepared to use it. Remember one thing it aint a toy so handle it with respect, and remember it isent there to threaten some body with, you bought it to protect your self and your loved ones.


The point I wanted to make is that it is BS that "if you pull it you use it". Every situation is different. You must be willing and prepared to use it though!!!  :thumleft:


[/quote
agree 10000%
Biking since the age of 11 nothing beats the freedom when u out there on u baby. Been doing it over 40 years now  (that's life)
Born a Biker, Live like a Biker, Die a Biker
 

Offline Mr. Python

  • Race Dog
  • ***
  • Bike: Yamaha XT 660 Z
    Location: Western Cape
  • Posts: 1,966
  • Thanked: 19 times
  • Carpe Canum
Re: Carrying weapons on bikes. (A poll to see how you guys feel about it)
« Reply #59 on: February 15, 2014, 11:35:37 pm »
When I submitted my last license app (defensive pistol renewal) i found an article by John Lott giving stats on defensive gun use.
He claimed in his research that in as much as 98% the mere brandishing of a firearm is sufficient to neutralize a threat.

Been in 5 situations now an never fired a shot.

The only "defensive" situation where my Glock came to speedy action and killed the aggressor was when a wildebeest I had drooped suddenly stood up about 2m in front of me. It was almost a subconscious move.
Life ....  when I was younger I had all these cool brave quotes and tag lines .... then life happened  ... and I have no socialialy acceptable  words 😶