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Author Topic: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.  (Read 15068 times)

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Offline 2StrokeDan

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Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
« on: February 20, 2014, 10:48:23 pm »
Just tonight I got involved in a difference of opinion between myself and TVB.
TVB reckoned that the XTZ should be much cheaper than the 690.
Why?
Yamaha built the XTZ with only one purpose in mind, and they do not mislead the buyer over what this purpose is. It's purpose is touring and everything from the Tenere name to the
fairing, the big fuel tank and strenghtened subframe.                                                                                 
Yamaha never thought that some people would actually think that this is a trials, or even enduro bike. It is a tourer, and Yamaha built it as such.
No high compression engine to tire you with barking exhaust note and snappy throttle, no "race" suspension when the tourer only want a smooth ride through the Cederberg.

Now the 690. It actually baffles me why anyone would want to compare this very light, very powerful motorcycle with close to competition hassis to a tourer such as the Yamaha XTZ.
But since some do, here goes.
You buy your 690 for R110000, then you buy your 690 extra tanks for R10000, then the Omega kit for R25000. It now cost you R145000, yet as a touring bike, it still falls short of the XTZ.
It still has a plastic subframe, it still feels "nervous" at 120[a downtrade for quick handling], it has a "snappy" throttle thanks to high compression and lots of power.
Reliability can never compare to Yamaha, even this Italian Pirate XTZ ;), and I know I am offending some KTM guys here when I say that reliability is an issue, sorry, but it is.

I know some will say that the thrill is just so good on the 690, and that is true, but this is about value from your purchase. A purchase done right.
IOW if you bought your 690 for wheelies, dragraces against other singles and playing in the dunes, you have chosen right.
If you bought your XTZ for touring and long distance riding, you have chosen right.

In my motorcycling life I have never seen bikes being sold with KMS as low as on the 690's. 1st owner selling at 400KM/2500kms etc is actually quite common.
What this tells me is that the 690 is the bike being bought the most of all bikes for the wrong reason. So for all these low-kay sellers, their purchase was wrong.
 

Offline Dwerg

Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2014, 06:34:44 am »
Apart from downplaying how good the 690 is at what it was built for, you're also implying that it's overpriced. Not everyone needs kits to be able to tour on it either, most only do it for the look anyway. Long range tanks and a small screen and you are good to go. So 95+ about 15k. 110k and you have a bike that can do it all.

Let me ask you this. How is a 650 Sertao overpriced compared to a 660Z. I'll concede that the 660 is better than the GS in a lot of areas but the GS also has areas where it at least matches the Z, some where it's maybe even slightly better plus it's cheaper I think? Yet you have on several occasions called that overpriced? (Amongst other things..)
« Last Edit: February 21, 2014, 06:45:30 am by Dwerg »
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Offline whitedelight

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Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2014, 06:49:16 am »
Well it is slightly unfair to compare the two,as KTM refer to the 690 as the largest capacity bike in their endure range,whereas the XTZ is pegged as a smaller capacity tourer.
I have a mate that will comfortably do 500-600 Kays a day on his Oryx,but I still think the Yammie would be a more comfortable tourer.
If Yamaha had put a bit more gutsy motor in the 660 frame they would have the ultimate DS bike. I am amazed that the newer singles handle the higher milage quite well.
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Offline zacapa

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Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2014, 07:03:54 am »
Well it is slightly unfair to compare the two,as KTM refer to the 690 as the largest capacity bike in their endure range,whereas the XTZ is pegged as a smaller capacity tourer.
I have a mate that will comfortably do 500-600 Kays a day on his Oryx,but I still think the Yammie would be a more comfortable tourer.
If Yamaha had put a bit more gutsy motor in the 660 frame they would have the ultimate DS bike. I am amazed that the newer singles handle the higher milage quite well.

One problem with the Yammy for me at least if you are going to use it as a serious adventure bike is the all up weight of 209 fully fueled. My XR650L weighs 155kg with 19 liters fuel on board. XTZ and 690 are essentially worlds apart and I agree that I would rather be on a XTZ for covering road and good gravel mileage. The XR on the other hand strikes a sensible balance - it is as light as a 690 but at half the price and the seating compared to orange make is sofa like. They are all great bikes with flaws and good features.
 

Offline Herminator

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Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2014, 07:08:29 am »
I have a friend who has a 690, one long distance trip later and he bought himself
a 990 aswell

The 690 is not a very comfortable bike, unless you want to spend another R10k
on a better seat

Thats ontop of the R50K for the Oryx kit

After I saw that I like riding the Tech Stuff,I bought a KDX for R15k
So now I have 2 machines that both do their job great
It catches my dreams when I ride it.
 

Offline 2StrokeDan

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Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2014, 07:20:11 am »
What was the 690 built for?

It is listed as the biggest capacity bike in the KTM Enduro range, yet not even Taddy or David could win an enduro on one.
It is not a tourer, not standard anyway.
It is a fun bike, that is so, and it has lots of power for a single.
It has above average suspension, yes.

I am not downplaying the 690, I would like to hear opinions on what owners find them like.

The Sertao, unlike the brand-new purposely designed touring XTZ, is just the old GS single with some new lipstick on.

The weight is the XTZ's big drawback, but it was not designed to use as an offroad playbike, the KTM was.

Comparing these two is exactly like comparing the XT1200Z to the KTM 950SE. There is no areas of similarity.

Voice your opinions.
 

Offline 2StrokeDan

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Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
« Reply #6 on: February 21, 2014, 07:25:25 am »
I have a friend who has a 690, one long distance trip later and he bought himself
a 990 aswell

The 690 is not a very comfortable bike, unless you want to spend another R10k
on a better seat

Thats ontop of the R50K for the Oryx kit

After I saw that I like riding the Tech Stuff,I bought a KDX for R15k
So now I have 2 machines that both do their job great

Indeed. To use the 690 as a offroad playbike will make it's value drop like a Mafia victim down a mineshaft.

The Sertao and XR-L can be converted into "touring" bikes, and quite successfully so, but they will  never have the designed good looks of the Yamaha. It is a pretty bike, the XT-Z.
 

Offline BFG

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Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
« Reply #7 on: February 21, 2014, 07:27:03 am »
I agree. The 690 and the XTZ are two very different bikes designed for very different things. And I'm sure that a % of people that buy 690 do so for the wrong reasons. However, there is no denying that the XTZ is far too under powered and has incredibly crappy suspension, especially for a bike that weighs as much as it does. I'm not trying to knock the XTZ, I had one and I loved it.
 

Offline 2StrokeDan

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Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
« Reply #8 on: February 21, 2014, 07:35:35 am »
I agree. The 690 and the XTZ are two very different bikes designed for very different things. And I'm sure that a % of people that buy 690 do so for the wrong reasons. However, there is no denying that the XTZ is far too under powered and has incredibly crappy suspension, especially for a bike that weighs as much as it does. I'm not trying to knock the XTZ, I had one and I loved it.

What was your exact problem with the XT-Z's suspension? Not doubting your experience at all, would simply like to know what the problem areas were.

Apparently my XT-E also has crappy suspension, but IMO only when you take it out of it's design parameters.

Take a 690 to a MX race, and find out that it too has crappy suspension.
 

Offline Elmo

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Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
« Reply #9 on: February 21, 2014, 07:41:12 am »
I agree. The 690 and the XTZ are two very different bikes designed for very different things. And I'm sure that a % of people that buy 690 do so for the wrong reasons. However, there is no denying that the XTZ is far too under powered and has incredibly crappy suspension, especially for a bike that weighs as much as it does. I'm not trying to knock the XTZ, I had one and I loved it.

Oh well , there goes my desire to get one straight out the window!!! :'(
 

Offline dirtyXT

Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
« Reply #10 on: February 21, 2014, 07:43:52 am »
the XTZ and the 690 are miles apart, the appeal to the XTZ for me is that it although heavy and underpowered does off road very well. and in my experience 90% of any trip is getting to the lekker places you actually want to be and ride the terrain. its offers a little but of everything stock standard. each terrain/sections of a trip warrants a whole different bike if we want to have the perfect bike on every single mile of terrain.

would love a 690, wouldn't love to tour on it as much as i would want to hit the woops with the XTZ. any bike can get you anywhere the only difference is how much do you want to kak off and where you choose to kak. either on the highway or round the track. give and take.
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Offline 2StrokeDan

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Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
« Reply #11 on: February 21, 2014, 08:00:19 am »
the XTZ and the 690 are miles apart, the appeal to the XTZ for me is that it although heavy and underpowered does off road very well. and in my experience 90% of any trip is getting to the lekker places you actually want to be and ride the terrain. its offers a little but of everything stock standard. each terrain/sections of a trip warrants a whole different bike if we want to have the perfect bike on every single mile of terrain.

would love a 690, wouldn't love to tour on it as much as i would want to hit the woops with the XTZ. any bike can get you anywhere the only difference is how much do you want to kak off and where you choose to kak. either on the highway or round the track. give and take.


Sensible post, and I think what people misunderstand. The XT-Z is possibly the best mix of get you there in comfort and then do offroad.

Amazing how opinions differ, for some the XT-Z is too heavy for offroad work, others will have you believe that they play in plasticland on their GS1200's. >:D
 

Offline badseed

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Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
« Reply #12 on: February 21, 2014, 08:02:31 am »
I have both the 690 and 990S . Both great bikes but if I was planning a long offroad trip the 660 would be a better bet. I don't get the thing about not enough power on the 660. Perhaps in a drag race on tar but for offroad it as way power than 99% of guys can handle.

On paper the weight looks a bit porky but riding it you don't feel it. Weigh  the 690 with the extra tanks and fairings  as well as luggage rack .

Something I learned about touring with mates is there is always a smaller bike in the mix and no  matter how fast  my 990 my speed is determined by the speed of the slower bike. So why battle in the tight stuff and then still have to ride slow on the big roads. Besides that the 660 cruises at 140  better than the 690.

But don't get me wrong, I'm not selling the 690. It ticks most of my boxes and is the most fun I've ever had on two wheels.
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Offline 2StrokeDan

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Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
« Reply #13 on: February 21, 2014, 08:07:11 am »
The XT-Z definitely is down on power when pillioning and hauling 2 people's luggage. So is every single there is.

For any single rider application, the 660Z is plenty strong enough.

One would swear everybody races everywhere. :ricky:
 

Offline Ganjora

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Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
« Reply #14 on: February 21, 2014, 08:09:50 am »
had quite a few DS bikes,  from an XR250R to a 950ADV.
and a couple in the 650 class,  and i can hoestly say
the 690 is the most fun I've ever had on two wheels.
 

Offline cocky

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Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
« Reply #15 on: February 21, 2014, 08:12:29 am »
More hot air, comparing Sparticus with Jacob Zuma, kak discussion ......... move on and troll kak elsewhere.
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Offline dirtyXT

Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
« Reply #16 on: February 21, 2014, 08:14:24 am »
The XT-Z definitely is down on power when pillioning and hauling 2 people's luggage. So is every single there is.

For any single rider application, the 660Z is plenty strong enough.

One would swear everybody races everywhere. :ricky:

:imaposer: :imaposer: :imaposer:
indeed, also think unless you're on the bleeding edge of modern enduro racing and pushing your bike to 99% of its performance capacity, its negligible which bike you choose. XTZ running at 80% capacity will leave a 690 running at 20% capacity everyday all day. learning how to appreciate and captilalise every single horse power can only come from riding a nifty 50cc.  :peepwall: :pot:
« Last Edit: February 21, 2014, 08:15:32 am by dirtyXT »
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Offline cocky

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Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
« Reply #17 on: February 21, 2014, 08:16:21 am »
The XT-Z definitely is down on power when pillioning and hauling 2 people's luggage. So is every single there is.

For any single rider application, the 660Z is plenty strong enough.

One would swear everybody races everywhere. :ricky:

:imaposer: :imaposer: :imaposer:
indeed, also think unless you're on the bleeding edge of modern enduro racing and pushing your bike to 99% of its performance capacity, its negligible which bike you choose. XTZ running at 80% capacity will leave a 690 running at 20% capacity everyday all day. learning how to appreciate and captilalise every single horse power can only come from riding a nifty 50cc.  :peepwall: :pot:
Not to forget that the XTZ weights as much as a standard 990 ........ figure that into your 80% - 20% split.
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Offline IceCreamMan

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Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
« Reply #18 on: February 21, 2014, 08:16:38 am »
the 690 is a fine motorcycle , just too highly strung for my needs ...its the hooligan alter ego of the XTZ essentially.

the xtz is the more DS orientated of the 2 but for sunday morning blats around jhb the 690 would be the better choice
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Offline Offside

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Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
« Reply #19 on: February 21, 2014, 08:17:36 am »

There have been very few times in my life that I have not owned and enjoyed an XT, so when the XTZ 660 hit the market there was no argument, I hat to have one.

The Z was an absolute joy to ride, more power than I needed, good syspension and a robust frame that could be abused without fear of the tail light snapping off.

The honeymoon lasted about 10000 k's before things went pear shaped. The Z has proved to be the most unreliable bike I have ever owned with one problem following the next to a point where I was to nervous to tackle a day trip never mind anything more adventurous.

The engine re-build was understandable as the air cleaner mod. had never been done as part of the PDI.

Other mechanical areas that needed attention at low km's were : brake pads
                                                                                                        stearing head bearings
                                                                                                        cush drive
                                                                                                        rear wheel bearings

Soon after getting the bike, all electrics in the dash cluster failed caused by the wiring loom being
crimped between the tank and frame.
Next the headlamp stopped working caused by a falure in the ignition switch which is not a servisable part and needed replacing.

The final straw for me was an intermitant electrical problem that felt like a spark plug progresivly breaking down until the bike stopped completly.
A friend down the road was having the same problem with his Z. As his was still under warranty I thought the easist solution was to sit it out until they had sorted the problem.
Two months down the line ....no solution.

As much as I may have bought a bike that was assembled on a Friday afternoon I dont think the 660Z will ever be remembered with the same nostalgia for its ruggedness and reliaility as the 600 Tenere.