Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register

Author Topic: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.  (Read 15058 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Toors

Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
« Reply #40 on: February 21, 2014, 11:44:27 am »
Well that's kinda the problem, the xtz isn't really new or modern. 

Well, the styling closely follows the "praying mantis" look favoured in the Dakar currently, so I would say at least more modern than the competition.

The new 690 has "fly by wire" accelerator, which means that it is even less suited to dirt applications.

Compared to what???  a 350 KTM plastic - yes any other road legal bike (other than road legal 450/500)- fat chance.  Just bought my second 690.  Sold my first when I bought my 1190  _ I just missed the can go anywhere capability of the 690 - I go to a Rally Raid I want to do the stupid route - I go t0 an alfie cox dirt festival I do the blue route - If I want to tour, ride Namibia,  Gravel route of the Alfie Cox Yellow Route I'll take the 1190  Sure the 690 is impractical for riding longe distances - but in the dirt even with the ride by wire throttle/ABS/twin ignition system and those new forks it is still the road worthy dirt bike king...
KTM 350 XCF-W
KTM 1050 Adv
Silent Submerge N-19 Saltwater
  "Those who say it can't be done, should get out of the way of those who is already doing it..."  Sheck Exley
 

Offline subie

  • Local Mods
  • Forum Whore
  • ***
  • Bike: Yamaha XT660
    Location: Gauteng
  • Posts: 9,950
  • Thanked: 229 times
  • Liberalism is the ideology of Western suicide.
Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
« Reply #41 on: February 21, 2014, 11:48:42 am »
I haven't got a Z but the 660R. I have never ridden a 690 but it just looks like too much bike for me. A racehorse compared to my
ordinary saddler.
My Xt660R has got 24000km on the clock and never dropped me anywhere. Very reliable bike for me with more engine power and suspension than I can utilise on dirt roads which is mostly what I bought the bike for . Perfect for me.
There was a very nice 690 on our recent trip to Vorstershoop. Nice exhaust sound and beautifull machine to look at for me. Maybe 20 years ago............  :ricky:
As time washes by, our footprints are all for naught
 

Offline TVB

  • Deleted Users
  • Forum Whore
  • *
  • Bike: Honda XL650V Transalp
    Location: North West
  • Posts: 5,979
  • Thanked: 1 times
Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
« Reply #42 on: February 21, 2014, 11:53:05 am »
Well that's kinda the problem, the xtz isn't really new or modern. 

Well, the styling closely follows the "praying mantis" look favoured in the Dakar currently, so I would say at least more modern than the competition.

The new 690 has "fly by wire" accelerator, which means that it is even less suited to dirt applications.

Compared to what???  a 350 KTM plastic - yes any other road legal bike (other than road legal 450/500)- fat chance.  Just bought my second 690.  Sold my first when I bought my 1190  _ I just missed the can go anywhere capability of the 690 - I go to a Rally Raid I want to do the stupid route - I go t0 an alfie cox dirt festival I do the blue route - If I want to tour, ride Namibia,  Gravel route of the Alfie Cox Yellow Route I'll take the 1190  Sure the 690 is impractical for riding longe distances - but in the dirt even with the ride by wire throttle/ABS/twin ignition system and those new forks it is still the road worthy dirt bike king...

Thanks for this Tors, and at least you are talkin experience here. Not just riding the keyboard and occationally (with tunnel vission) a brand name you worship (an that very same brand name feels a f#ck for you any way)
If only Yamaha can wake up and use their recources. They have the ability to built a killer midrange DS bike, and even a better thumper like the current pizza models
 

Offline KiLRoy

  • Rossi se Biaggi...
  • Administrator
  • Bachelor Dog
  • ***
  • Bike: BMW R1200GS
    Location: Gauteng
  • Posts: 15,456
  • Thanked: 715 times
  • We need a strong man. Strong like Stalin
    • Wild Dog Adventure Riders
Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
« Reply #43 on: February 21, 2014, 11:56:40 am »
690 and XR650R is what the SE and HP2 in the liter class is for the 650 class.

Big 650 enduro machines - street legal ones
 

Offline Mooi Rooi

  • Member
  • **
  • Bike: Yamaha XT660
    Location: Gauteng
  • Posts: 182
  • Thanked: 1 times
  • Lets ride Bitcheeeeees !!!
Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
« Reply #44 on: February 21, 2014, 12:31:59 pm »
I haven't got a Z but the 660R. I have never ridden a 690 but it just looks like too much bike for me. A racehorse compared to my
ordinary saddler.
My Xt660R has got 24000km on the clock and never dropped me anywhere. Very reliable bike for me with more engine power and suspension than I can utilise on dirt roads which is mostly what I bought the bike for . Perfect for me.

Could not agree more / never needed more bike IMO  :snorting: :snorting: :snorting:
 

Offline Marvin

  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Bike: KTM 1190 Adventure
    Location: Western Cape
  • Posts: 855
  • Thanked: 7 times
Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
« Reply #45 on: February 21, 2014, 12:34:37 pm »
Both are k@k and are overpriced. You should rather buy a..... care to guess? Or should I post pictures?


Please post pictjas!!! :ricky:
2013 KTM 1190 Adventure R (Current)
2012 Honda XR650L (Current)
2006 KDX 200 (Sold)
2003 NXR 125 ES (Dead)
 

Offline drewdza

  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Bike: Triumph 800 XC
    Location: Gauteng
  • Posts: 557
  • Thanked: 9 times
  • world leader pretend
Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
« Reply #46 on: February 21, 2014, 12:40:04 pm »
I haven't got a Z but the 660R. I have never ridden a 690 but it just looks like too much bike for me. A racehorse compared to my
ordinary saddler.
My Xt660R has got 24000km on the clock and never dropped me anywhere. Very reliable bike for me with more engine power and suspension than I can utilise on dirt roads which is mostly what I bought the bike for . Perfect for me.

Could not agree more / never needed more bike IMO  :snorting: :snorting: :snorting:

Ag kak man.....you can never have too much bike, only too little self control  >:D. A Tiger lies in your future rooies :thumleft:
800XC
701
 

Offline Offside

  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Bike: Yamaha XT600
    Location: Kwazulu Natal
  • Posts: 508
  • Thanked: 75 times
Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
« Reply #47 on: February 21, 2014, 01:29:26 pm »
I own a standard suspended XT600E, and while it is woefully inadequate at Macassar's whoops, I find this the best touring suspension you can find.

This is what TVB and some can not grasp, for touring you do not need to do whoops, jumps, etc, you need plush suspension.
The bigger the fork diameter, the more stiction you will find, simply due to seal friction area, fork bushings with greater area, etc. This is why these KTM forks on a light bike like the 690 need to be revalved to try and cope with dirtroad corrugations, ripples, etc.

I find my XT suspension so good for normal touring that I would not change anything on it. Plush, it just soaks up all ripples and corrugations in a road.

Everything is compromises. The harder the hit your forks can take, the harder they will have to be, and the more you feel road unevenness. This is the tiring factor when doing long
distance riding. Wrist fatigue, and possibly why I hardly ever see long distance reports by riders on 690's.

IMO

A small amount of ronts spent on "Tenerising" the E and you end up with a machine that ticks all the boxes, except for long distance tarr.

This bike is robust reliable, cheep and easy to maintain and best off all no radiator or fuel injection with all the crappy sensors assosiated with "modern" bikes.

My wifes E has done more than my 660Z with non of the hassles. gotta tell you something.
 

Offline 2StrokeDan

  • a Man of Character
  • Castrated Dog
  • ******
  • Bike: KTM 690 Adventure
    Location: Western Cape
  • Posts: 24,183
  • Thanked: 1632 times
  • Slim like Bill, straight like Steve
Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
« Reply #48 on: February 21, 2014, 02:19:33 pm »
The 690 is indeed the best roadworthy offroad bike by a long margin. Suspension, power and chassis is in a class of it's own.
But this is where it ends, it cannot be compared to KLR, XT-Z, which was built for touring.

It is a common mistake here to want to choose a 650class bike, and throwing the 690 in with the others in this class. The 690 actually belongs to the playbike class, for just like with a 450WR, you can tour if yu want to , but it is hardly meant for touring. The proof is in how few 690 riders actually go far on them.

So despite the thread heading, there is no comparison between them, and not because one is better than the other, but because all the ones shortcomings is the other's strongpoints, and vice versa.
 

Offline igeorge

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Bike: KTM 640 Adventure
    Location: Western Cape
  • Posts: 33
  • What have I broken this time....
Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
« Reply #49 on: February 21, 2014, 04:03:51 pm »
So where does this leave a bike like the 640 Adv??
 

Offline jaybiker

  • Old school=Old's cool.
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Bike: BMW R1150GS
    Location: Eastern Cape
  • Posts: 3,687
  • Thanked: 277 times
Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
« Reply #50 on: February 21, 2014, 04:04:50 pm »
What do we want?.........Everything!  :thumleft:

When do we want it?.........All the time!  :thumleft:


Why can't we have it?.........That's the bastard!!  :xxbah:
Succumb not to the erosion of those born of unconsecrated union.

"Two Wheels, an engine and a place to sit." What more do you need?

"They" say I confuse wanting to stay young with wanting things to stay as they were when I was young.
 

Offline TVB

  • Deleted Users
  • Forum Whore
  • *
  • Bike: Honda XL650V Transalp
    Location: North West
  • Posts: 5,979
  • Thanked: 1 times
Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
« Reply #51 on: February 21, 2014, 04:08:06 pm »
So wher

Now where does this leave a bike like the 640 Adv??

Now you are talking! That is a legend bike and has done many trans Africa trips and in my eyes the best of both worlds. Pity (real pity) KTM has not followed up with another model. That is why there is a need for the 'Oryx kit' and other simular on the 690 but it will never be a 640. The focuss is on what the European market demands....... Afrika suig aan die agterspeen
 

Offline 2StrokeDan

  • a Man of Character
  • Castrated Dog
  • ******
  • Bike: KTM 690 Adventure
    Location: Western Cape
  • Posts: 24,183
  • Thanked: 1632 times
  • Slim like Bill, straight like Steve
Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
« Reply #52 on: February 21, 2014, 04:57:36 pm »
So where does this leave a bike like the 640 Adv??

IMO the most complete adventure bike ever built. Niggles and all.
 

Offline Operator

  • is a Forum Vendor and a
  • Forum Whore
  • ****
  • Bike: Husqvarna (all models)
    Location: Western Cape
  • Posts: 5,708
  • Thanked: 211 times
  • Official Vendor
    • Vendor
Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
« Reply #53 on: February 21, 2014, 05:02:25 pm »
So where does this leave a bike like the 640 Adv??

IMO the most complete adventure bike ever built. Niggles and all.


............amper soos 'n Alfa  :spitcoffee:
 

Offline badseed

  • Ride the adventure
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Bike: KTM 690 Adventure
    Location: Western Cape
  • Posts: 709
  • KTM 990S, KTM690R , Vespa 200GT
    • www.wildwood.capetown
Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
« Reply #54 on: February 21, 2014, 05:05:44 pm »
The question not answered is why so many low mileage 690's around for sale. I got one with 104kms , Baas Attie got one with 300kms last week and Rudy also with about 300kms, all for huge discount prices.
Owner WildWood Motorcycle Tours South Africa
 

Offline 2StrokeDan

  • a Man of Character
  • Castrated Dog
  • ******
  • Bike: KTM 690 Adventure
    Location: Western Cape
  • Posts: 24,183
  • Thanked: 1632 times
  • Slim like Bill, straight like Steve
Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
« Reply #55 on: February 21, 2014, 05:10:44 pm »
The question not answered is why so many low mileage 690's around for sale. I got one with 104kms , Baas Attie got one with 300kms last week and Rudy also with about 300kms, all for huge discount prices.


This is what led me to believe that while the 690 is witout doubt an exciting bike, it is not an everyday bike. I used to commute between Stellenbosch and Bellville on a 1984 Suzuki RM465, and while very exciting, it was not an easy bike to live with.
People greatly misunderstand the nature of the 690, and buy it thinking that you can just doddle around on it like a XT. It is always awake. :eek7:
 

Offline badseed

  • Ride the adventure
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Bike: KTM 690 Adventure
    Location: Western Cape
  • Posts: 709
  • KTM 990S, KTM690R , Vespa 200GT
    • www.wildwood.capetown
Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
« Reply #56 on: February 21, 2014, 05:15:19 pm »
Even if the XTZ is the same price as a Gs800 or Triumph 800 if your focus is offroad touring the XTZ is built for that application , while the other two are road bikes that are capable offroad. Perhaps the spec sheet gives there weights as similar the ride and layout are poles apart. The XTZ looks , feels and rides like a much lighter enduro type bike while the other two are heavy front end road type feels.I'll gladly take a XTZ around a muddy mx track ( all be it slowly) but no way will I try on the other two. When Yamaha launched the XTZ Baas Attie and myself spent a couple of hours on the two demos around the Helderberg  farms on some rough trails and sand and the bikes were so confidence enspiring  and never felt there weight.
Owner WildWood Motorcycle Tours South Africa
 

Offline Kriestoe

Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
« Reply #57 on: February 21, 2014, 06:29:39 pm »
What even brought up this thread I don't know. Different applications people, these are not difficult concepts to understand. For someone who's had 690R for three years now, after having had a 990, Dakar, etc here is why I have it, love it and treasure it.
1. I don't want to ride 400km a day on tar but if I really wanted to, it could do it, although wont be much fun. Would rather do dirt routes.
2. If I had to do 400km on dirt, I would choose nothing else
3. I ride plenty dirt and wanted the lightest, best suspension etc
4. I never ride with panniers etc - one Giant Loop type bag is enough
5. It is always fun to ride and commuting 20km a day through hectic traffic is a breeze
6. when conditions get really tough on dirt, which would you rather be on?
7. Heavy bikes are a waste for this specific application and lots return to lighter bikes after a while
8. every day when I see it, I'm reminded why I love it
9. No pillion
Considering the above, the 690 R has a specific market for what it offers. It is what I wanted from a bike. AND it does what it says on the box unlike others who brand their bikes ENDURO when it's far from it.
Had NO problems other than a blown globe. It's not fuel efficient and I don't care. There are scooters for that.

Sting, moet jou Afrikaanse tweeling wees, jou redes is al my redes hoekom ek 690 ry.
 

Offline Rough Rider

  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Bike: Husqvarna (all models)
    Location: Western Cape
  • Posts: 4,969
  • Thanked: 47 times
  • Hang time
Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
« Reply #58 on: February 21, 2014, 07:39:29 pm »
I own a standard suspended XT600E, and while it is woefully inadequate at Macassar's whoops, I find this the best touring suspension you can find.

This is what TVB and some can not grasp, for touring you do not need to do whoops, jumps, etc, you need plush suspension.
The bigger the fork diameter, the more stiction you will find, simply due to seal friction area, fork bushings with greater area, etc. This is why these KTM forks on a light bike like the 690 need to be revalved to try and cope with dirtroad corrugations, ripples, etc.

I find my XT suspension so good for normal touring that I would not change anything on it. Plush, it just soaks up all ripples and corrugations in a road.

Everything is compromises. The harder the hit your forks can take, the harder they will have to be, and the more you feel road unevenness. This is the tiring factor when doing long
distance riding. Wrist fatigue, and possibly why I hardly ever see long distance reports by riders on 690's.

With due respect 2SD you are talking nonsence in this post. The suspension on an XT600E is woeful full stop; no matter what surface you ride the bike on. I too owned a XT600E for quite a few years, and unlike you I had a bit of work done on the suspension.

Even so I still kakked myself everytime I was on a rough dirt road at any kind of speed because I knew the suspension could not handle it. It took me quite sometime to work out that the dings in the underside of my exhaust were being caused by the rear brake caliper hitting it. I mean for fucks sakes man.

My 610 on the other hand also has plush suspension, but will not bottom out or do anything funny, I can ride straight and not worry about avoiding the obsticles like I had to on the XT (my SE is also good but not as good as the 610).

One good thing about the XT is the steel rims, everytime I bashed one square I could stop and donner it round again with a rock. But then again a bike with good suspension and quality rims does not experience damaged rims so much.  

A bit off the topic I know; the only real solution is to have a garage full of bikes, one for each occasion. Having said that even if I had 13 bikes, which I worked out is the number that covers every possibility I would not have a XTZ as one of them. I would however probably have a 690 and that's only because the 610 is no longer made.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2014, 07:52:26 pm by Rough Rider »
Current rides: 2015 WR250F / 2016 690R / 2017 701SM
 

Offline 2StrokeDan

  • a Man of Character
  • Castrated Dog
  • ******
  • Bike: KTM 690 Adventure
    Location: Western Cape
  • Posts: 24,183
  • Thanked: 1632 times
  • Slim like Bill, straight like Steve
Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
« Reply #59 on: February 21, 2014, 09:19:57 pm »
Rough Rider,

With all due respect, read my post again, I said TOURING suspension, iow when calmly riding through Baviaans or the Sederberge, I actually stated that the suspension was
"woefully inadequate" for Macassar's whoops. Maybe you just missed that in my post but it is there. ;)

If your caliper hit your exhaust on full rear suspension compression, your exhaust is fitted in the wrong position! This much should be obvious!! :eek7: Your suspension should hit NOTHING going through it's full stroke!!

The one point you see as good on the XT, the steel rims, is actually the parts on a XT that is not good, actually cheap and nasty.

I have been riding my XT for a good few years, only one small ding on my front rim. Now either you are much quicker than me on a similar bike, or you do not look too good. :snorting: