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Author Topic: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.  (Read 15067 times)

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Offline dirtyXT

Re:
« Reply #80 on: February 23, 2014, 09:30:16 pm »
I think the point is getting lost. what I think is being said here is that yes many bikes have elements or abilities better than the tenere, most are aged and no longer in production in order to reasonably tour large improvements/modifications are required at a cost. where as the tenere off the floor is ready. sure with some drawbacks like suspension and weight etc we know its not without flaws. the tenere is relevant and current.
Bike history:
Ital jet 50 - sold, DT 50 - scrapped - AR80 - sold DT185 - confiscated  KDX250 - sold ZZR400 - sold KX500 - XT660R Swapped for R1 YZF R1 - sold - XT660Z - sold

 

Offline 2StrokeDan

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Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
« Reply #81 on: February 23, 2014, 09:32:30 pm »
Go and check what okes doing RTW d/s trips ride.  Thats surely the best example of d/s touring? Dont believe me - check the facts.

If I were to go on a D/S around the world trip, I would, even if money was no object, take a aircooled single to start with. XR-L, DR or XT600. The fact that guys doing RTW trips take what they already own, or decide to buy a cheaper or even 2nd hand bike, does not alter the fact that the 660Z is the only modern touring bike in the 650 class.
You mos know the old story of the bestseller, no guarantee that it is actually the best. Huisgenoot, Steve, BikeSA, BMW......... ;D
 

Offline 2StrokeDan

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Re:
« Reply #82 on: February 23, 2014, 09:33:29 pm »
I think the point is getting lost. what I think is being said here is that yes many bikes have elements or abilities better than the tenere, most are aged and no longer in production in order to reasonably tour large improvements/modifications are required at a cost. where as the tenere off the floor is ready. sure with some drawbacks like suspension and weight etc we know its not without flaws. the tenere is relevant and current.

Thank you Sir.
 

Offline KiLRoy

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Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
« Reply #83 on: February 24, 2014, 06:17:08 am »
People seem to think that I am bashing the 690 here, do not think that. Let us look at pricing;

The 690 is a 100grand, and my general idea I get from everybody is that it is just an enduro bike? Or a short-distance commuter? Yet it is not deemed too expensive for this
limited use package?

After the 640, the TEN is the only purpose-built long distance offroad TOURING bike on offer from a major manufacturer. Before you shout KLR, go through the snob comments on this very forum, and ask yourself if you can ride a KLR. It is not called fugly, pooratech, etc because people lust after them. Personally the most underrated bike I think.
Go buy the DR, XR-L, and fit your LR tank and Fairing and racks, it is still a backyard built tourer. IMO very sufficient, but remember, you must pass WD snob scrutineering.

So if you want a purpose-built touring single with parts back-up, reliability and undeniably good looks, and you have the money, pay for the best.

I'm confused. On the one hand you say the XTZ is the only long distance tourer (i see no modern word used), but on the other you acknowledge aircooled ones available too. You mention that these are actually your choice for RTW touring but they do not pass the WD snob scrutineering test.

So are you saying that although you prefer a XRL/DR the XTZ is a WD poser/snob bike?
 

Offline 2StrokeDan

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Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
« Reply #84 on: February 24, 2014, 07:18:12 am »
People seem to think that I am bashing the 690 here, do not think that. Let us look at pricing;

The 690 is a 100grand, and my general idea I get from everybody is that it is just an enduro bike? Or a short-distance commuter? Yet it is not deemed too expensive for this
limited use package?

After the 640, the TEN is the only purpose-built long distance offroad TOURING bike on offer from a major manufacturer. Before you shout KLR, go through the snob comments on this very forum, and ask yourself if you can ride a KLR. It is not called fugly, pooratech, etc because people lust after them. Personally the most underrated bike I think.
Go buy the DR, XR-L, and fit your LR tank and Fairing and racks, it is still a backyard built tourer. IMO very sufficient, but remember, you must pass WD snob scrutineering.

So if you want a purpose-built touring single with parts back-up, reliability and undeniably good looks, and you have the money, pay for the best.

I'm confused. On the one hand you say the XTZ is the only long distance tourer (i see no modern word used), but on the other you acknowledge aircooled ones available too. You mention that these are actually your choice for RTW touring but they do not pass the WD snob scrutineering test.

So are you saying that although you prefer a XRL/DR the XTZ is a WD poser/snob bike?

Don't be confused. I said the XT-Z is the only NEWLY-DESIGNED long distance tourer in the 650 single class available today. Understand? You buy and you laat waai.
1. It is newly designed, from the ground up.
2. Frame even differs from the XT-R in that it is stronger in load-bearing places.
3. Few would say that it is not a very attractive design.
4. It has good fuel capacity for touring.
5. It has good wind protection.
6. It has good and strong luggage carrying ability and provision.
7. It has factory fitted and replaceble side-impact panels, a new and valuable foresight on a bike like this.

You can work out from above list what a 690 would eventually cost you to get on par as tourer. KTM never intended the 690 to tour, as a playbike it is also then disqualified from this list of touring bikes.

DR650, XR-L, Sertao, Gaggle of Huskies/DRZ's/etc. Could be used for touring very successfully, but needs larger tanks, wind protection[which almost always looks backyard], and
luggage racks/frames.
Aside from all practical requirements attached to a touring bike, there is one undeniable factor which warrants the XT-Z's price; desirability. Yes, I can farkle my XT600E until it is a
touring supremo, it is still an old bike with stuff slapped on.
The KLR is still a poor man's fugly.

In today's world, unfortunately, there is a premium chargeable to be seen on something desirable. And if this machine comes correctly equipped for the task to boot, well it's
almost a bargain.
 

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Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
« Reply #85 on: February 24, 2014, 07:26:24 am »
 :spitcoffee: daarshy, Daan het sy week begin deur n volstruis eier te le!  :pot: ..... En nooit homself 'weerspreek' nie, dis ons wat nie oplet in die klas nie ne ???

 :thumleft:
 

Offline 2StrokeDan

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Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
« Reply #86 on: February 24, 2014, 07:34:42 am »
:spitcoffee: daarshy, Daan het sy week begin deur n volstruis eier te le!  :pot: ..... En nooit homself 'weerspreek' nie, dis ons wat nie oplet in die klas nie ne ???

 :thumleft:

Jy sal n Dinosourus eier moet le om te kan byhou, ou maat. Jy weerspreek jouself al so lank dat van die ander mense dink al jy het n "axe to grind"  :imaposer:
 

Offline Gene

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Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
« Reply #87 on: February 24, 2014, 07:42:42 am »
Julle vergeet die BMW 650  X - Country ,een van die beste DS bikes en lig ,ongelukkig nie n toerfiets nie
 

Offline Mark Hardy

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Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
« Reply #88 on: February 24, 2014, 08:01:10 am »
I must say I really enjoyed the XTZ, myself and 2 mates were given 3 XTZ to ride for the day. we did about 300kms of varying terrain and the bike just soaked it all up. Yes the front suspension lacked when pushed and yes the rear suspension kicked up on occasions, but for the whole the suspension was great for touring. What I did really did miss was a 6th gear for the little tar we did. I suffer from mechanical sympathy and thought an extra gear would be a little gentler on the motor. The motor offers more than enough power and torque to get you where you wanted to go. Comfort wise I found the seat OK but the pegs seat handle bar position, sitting or standing, I found very comfortable. I love the look of the 660Z  :thumleft:

Here a couple of pics of where we rode. I have ridden the same route on the 950 and had just as much fun on the 660 as I did on the 950, just not as quick  >:D.

Wish I had had the opportunity to ride a 690 along the same route.  :(

  

























 

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Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
« Reply #89 on: February 24, 2014, 08:03:34 am »
People seem to think that I am bashing the 690 here, do not think that. Let us look at pricing;

The 690 is a 100grand, and my general idea I get from everybody is that it is just an enduro bike? Or a short-distance commuter? Yet it is not deemed too expensive for this
limited use package?

After the 640, the TEN is the only purpose-built long distance offroad TOURING bike on offer from a major manufacturer. Before you shout KLR, go through the snob comments on this very forum, and ask yourself if you can ride a KLR. It is not called fugly, pooratech, etc because people lust after them. Personally the most underrated bike I think.
Go buy the DR, XR-L, and fit your LR tank and Fairing and racks, it is still a backyard built tourer. IMO very sufficient, but remember, you must pass WD snob scrutineering.

So if you want a purpose-built touring single with parts back-up, reliability and undeniably good looks, and you have the money, pay for the best.

I'm confused. On the one hand you say the XTZ is the only long distance tourer (i see no modern word used), but on the other you acknowledge aircooled ones available too. You mention that these are actually your choice for RTW touring but they do not pass the WD snob scrutineering test.

So are you saying that although you prefer a XRL/DR the XTZ is a WD poser/snob bike?

Don't be confused. I said the XT-Z is the only NEWLY-DESIGNED long distance tourer in the 650 single class available today. Understand? You buy and you laat waai.
1. It is newly designed, from the ground up.
2. Frame even differs from the XT-R in that it is stronger in load-bearing places.
3. Few would say that it is not a very attractive design.
4. It has good fuel capacity for touring.
5. It has good wind protection.
6. It has good and strong luggage carrying ability and provision.
7. It has factory fitted and replaceble side-impact panels, a new and valuable foresight on a bike like this.

You can work out from above list what a 690 would eventually cost you to get on par as tourer. KTM never intended the 690 to tour, as a playbike it is also then disqualified from this list of touring bikes.

DR650, XR-L, Sertao, Gaggle of Huskies/DRZ's/etc. Could be used for touring very successfully, but needs larger tanks, wind protection[which almost always looks backyard], and
luggage racks/frames.
Aside from all practical requirements attached to a touring bike, there is one undeniable factor which warrants the XT-Z's price; desirability. Yes, I can farkle my XT600E until it is a
touring supremo, it is still an old bike with stuff slapped on.
The KLR is still a poor man's fugly.

In today's world, unfortunately, there is a premium chargeable to be seen on something desirable. And if this machine comes correctly equipped for the task to boot, well it's
almost a bargain.

Sorry, seems to have missed the 'newly designed' part in your post above. Like a KLR fairing that comment was retro fitted.  

The last manufacturer who brings out a bike in a specific class will always have the latest 'newly designed' bike.  In this case a very capable and likable Yamaha, albeit at a the price of a BMW or worse.  Fortunately there are many more d/s tourers available in the 650 class. Some of them even with proven RTW touring credentials. It takes 10 years to build a 10y proven track record of capability and reliability. Even if you have a newly designed bike with a not so newly designed MZ/Rapture motor dating from 1991 if i'm not mistaken?

http://www.yamaha-motor.eu/designcafe/en/about-bikes/classics/index.aspx?view=article&id=442639&segment=&archive=false&page=2

Kudus for the engine ito longevity. Much like the KLR? But modern, sadly no...
 

Offline alanB

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Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
« Reply #90 on: February 24, 2014, 08:09:07 am »
Arguing with 2SD about the merits of any Yamaha is like arguing with the earth about gravity, but anyway here goes....

I looked at the XTZ when I finally realised I hated my Dakar.  It looked nice, I sat on it in the shops and made "broom broom" noises, the brochures were as slick as the BMW brochures, I took them home and read them from cover to cover, started to get that buyng feeling etc - but then I realised it was just more of the same - a big heavy road bike pretending to be an off road bike.  It was basically a modern version of the BMW.  And I realised I would grow to hate it just like the Dakar so I dropped that idea.

I then rode a mate's 690 and immediately realised that is the sort of thing that I wanted.  It just was the real macoy IMO, light, powerful, handled well, was fun to ride, could handle dirt well, could cruise well on tar - the Dakar felt like a drunken hippo in comparison!

I looked for something similar to the 690 and eventually found the 610 and we all lived happily ever after.

People who say you cant tour on a smaller lighter bike are wrong IMO!   Maybe THEY cant tour on a small bike, for what ever reason, but there is no physical reason why it cant be done.  It just comes down to what you like and what you want out of your bike.

To me the 690 is the only REAL DS bike currently in production.  I say that because it can REALLY do offroad as well as on road (ie DUAL SPORT) - which is what I want to do.  

I wish they would make more bikes in this class.

You cant really compare the 690 to a XTZ, they are worlds apart - and long may that continue IMO!
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Offline lecap

Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
« Reply #91 on: February 24, 2014, 08:11:18 am »
...1. It is newly designed, from the ground up
...
7. It has factory fitted and replaceble side-impact panels, a new and valuable foresight on a bike like this.
...

:laughing4:

The XT660Z engine is so new it still shares components with the XT500. And you dare to ridicule KLR's ??? The Minarelli 660 is an upgraded and bored out XT500 mill with bolt on liquid cooling :evil6:

The KLR mill being related to Kawasakis 1984's DOHC 16V liquid cooled inline fours originates almost a decade later than the XT :D

Do you call the BMW G650Sertao a newly designed bike or an old cart horse with a shoeshine job ???



The side impact panels are at least as new as the Honda ST1100 Pan European. 24 years to be precise. :lol8:
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Offline 2StrokeDan

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Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
« Reply #92 on: February 24, 2014, 08:41:13 am »
...1. It is newly designed, from the ground up
...
7. It has factory fitted and replaceble side-impact panels, a new and valuable foresight on a bike like this.
...

:laughing4:

The XT660Z engine is so new it still shares components with the XT500. And you dare to ridicule KLR's ??? The Minarelli 660 is an upgraded and bored out XT500 mill with bolt on liquid cooling :evil6:

The KLR mill being related to Kawasakis 1984's DOHC 16V liquid cooled inline fours originates almost a decade later than the XT :D

Do you call the BMW G650Sertao a newly designed bike or an old cart horse with a shoeshine job ???



The side impact panels are at least as new as the Honda ST1100 Pan European. 24 years to be precise. :lol8:


What does the 660 share with the XT500? The air that flows around it's engine? :imaposer:

I never ridicule KLR's......EVER.

The Sertao is a carthorse without shoeshine.

The side impact panels are new to a D/S bike, which a Pan-Euro certainly was not.
 

Offline 2StrokeDan

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Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
« Reply #93 on: February 24, 2014, 08:45:37 am »
Mark Hardy's post here are very relevant, not because he says what I have been saying, but because someone with great ability and experience is valueing the XT-Z for what it is designed to do.
And Mark likes it.
 

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Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
« Reply #94 on: February 24, 2014, 08:50:08 am »
...1. It is newly designed, from the ground up
...
7. It has factory fitted and replaceble side-impact panels, a new and valuable foresight on a bike like this.
...

:laughing4:

The XT660Z engine is so new it still shares components with the XT500. And you dare to ridicule KLR's ??? The Minarelli 660 is an upgraded and bored out XT500 mill with bolt on liquid cooling :evil6:

The KLR mill being related to Kawasakis 1984's DOHC 16V liquid cooled inline fours originates almost a decade later than the XT :D

Do you call the BMW G650Sertao a newly designed bike or an old cart horse with a shoeshine job ???



The side impact panels are at least as new as the Honda ST1100 Pan European. 24 years to be precise. :lol8:

I just love this, who can argue with this from a man who knows what he is talking about!
You just can't beat knowledge, experience and honesty


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Offline Garfield

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Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
« Reply #95 on: February 24, 2014, 08:53:36 am »
Mark Hardy's post here are very relevant, not because he says what I have been saying, but because someone with great ability and experience is valueing the XT-Z for what it is designed to do.
And Mark likes it.

Just so I understand this, are you saying posts that agree with you are relevant and posts that disagree are not?
 

Offline IceCreamMan

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Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
« Reply #96 on: February 24, 2014, 08:59:38 am »
I bet u haters listen to Bieber too hey...

what a seriously kark thread, mods delete it ...please ...
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Offline Dwerg

Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
« Reply #97 on: February 24, 2014, 09:07:18 am »
I bet u haters listen to Bieber too hey...

what a seriously kark thread, mods delete it ...please ...


Moet die mods die thread sommer delete oor dat U Hoogheid nie van hom hou nie  ??? ::) ::)

As ons 'n thread moes delete elke keer wat iemand kak praat oor 'n bwm was daar fokol op die forum so as jy dit nie like nie, lees iets anders
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Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
« Reply #98 on: February 24, 2014, 09:11:06 am »
I bet u haters listen to Bieber too hey...

what a seriously kark thread, mods delete it ...please ...


Moet die mods die thread sommer delete oor dat U Hoogheid nie van hom hou nie  ??? ::) ::)

As ons 'n thread moes delete elke keer wat iemand kak praat oor 'n bwm was daar fokol op die forum so as jy dit nie like nie, lees iets anders

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Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
« Reply #99 on: February 24, 2014, 09:11:29 am »
I bet u haters listen to Bieber too hey...

what a seriously kark thread, mods delete it ...please ...


Moet die mods die thread sommer delete oor dat U Hoogheid nie van hom hou nie  ??? ::) ::)

As ons 'n thread moes delete elke keer wat iemand kak praat oor 'n bwm was daar fokol op die forum so as jy dit nie like nie, lees iets anders
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