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shark_za

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Bikes - Eco Friendly?
« on: June 06, 2006, 10:07:06 am »
So some chop on the T4A forum says there are no place for bikes out in the outdoors, and kwats, bikes and 4x2's should be banned from riding offroad.
Only big ass 4x4's are eco friendly enough to be allowed on trails.

Now I wanna call BULLSH!T !
I have seen more damage where heavy 4x4's dig into wet areas than any bit of wheelspin caused by my bike.

What says the forum?

A classic case of supporting legislation to ban another form of land use, thats gonna turn around and bite the 4x4 owners in time.

We should support ALL responsible offroad use, even kwats as once the guvmunt get a small ban in place its easy to extend that to other forms of use.
 

Offline chrisB

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« Reply #1 on: June 06, 2006, 10:19:54 am »
[/quote]Only big ass 4x4's are eco friendly enough to be allowed on trails.
Quote


How The Fark do they get to that conclusion? :? A heavier more power full veichle will definately have a negative impact on soil... isn't that basic physics?

Farking government dudes are a buch of clueless numnuts :evil:
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Offline Grootseun

Bikes - Eco Friendly?
« Reply #2 on: June 06, 2006, 10:35:03 am »
Take the average width of a 4x4, 4x2 tyre times it by 2 and you have twice the amount of damage to soil/vegetation as on a bike.. we have one third of the impact on trails,/vegetation as many other vehicles. I can ride around a small bush/tree... an beegass 4 wheeled vehicle just goes srtaight over... that's what it it was made for right???
 

Offline LuckyStriker

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« Reply #3 on: June 06, 2006, 10:37:19 am »
I can reply with some knowledge on this since missusLS used to work for parks and is still in the conservation business.

She told me of a report done by SANparks relating to the impact of vehicles.

Biggest evils are 4x4s
then 2x4s
then kwats
then bikes

Interestingly enough, diesel vehicles are pure evil because the plumes of smoke are particularly toxic to plants.

Unfortunately most tourists use 4x4 and 2x4 vehicles, and since they generate revenue their impact on nature is overlooked.
Quadbikes are seen as the main bad guys because they do almost equal damage to normal 4wheeled vehicles and are frequently driven by hooligans (there are a few exceptions of course).
Quad tour owners will also tell you that the broad deflated tyres of a quad, does no damage to the ground is talking pure horseshit. Even a shoe does damage and a single track vehicle is always better than a two track vehicle.

SANparks' position on bikes is simply the dated view that all bikers are troublemakers. I think they are worried that motorcyclist will feel tempted to race on their roads or leave the designated paths altogether.
When I phoned all the parks and some Reserves some time ago (to find out which ones are bike friendly) I found that some parks also frown on the noise bikes make.

BMW SouthAfrica has done much to build a good name for bikes and as you may or may not know, Small groups of Beemers are now allowed into KrugerNP with guides. This is a huge achievement considering the politics of South Africa?s flagship park.

Here is another shocker: When I phoned AugrabiesNP, they refused to allow bikes in because of the noise issue. When I told them that I ride a GS and that it is in fact quieter than a car the person on the phone transferred me to the Park Manager. He must have known something about bikes and told me I could come ride his park any time I wished as long as I don?t bring along friends with scramblers, quads or other noisy miscreants? sorry LITO :D
 

Offline droffarc

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« Reply #4 on: June 06, 2006, 10:42:46 am »
So they recon a UniMog is eco-friendly huh?

Man, even mice have a tendency to make trails and trails are not eco-friendly.

The point is, if you love nature (why else are you out there?) then act responsibly. Don't leave a trail of pink tissues, don't damage the environment, stick to established trails et ceterah et ceterah.


Maybe one should define what eco-friendly is. I have never seen a landslip that was eco-friendly, and a land slip is caused by.....
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Offline LuckyStriker

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« Reply #5 on: June 06, 2006, 11:00:33 am »
Quote from: "droffarc"
So they recon a UniMog is eco-friendly huh?

A unimog is eco-friendly because you can cram a lot of people into a vehicle that leaves one set of tracks. It's far better that allowing 10 Defenders to roam your little piece of paradise.

I have been on Unimog tours in private reserves where the guide would bundu bash with glee, chasing down a buck or some other critter. The driver/guide would then brag how his Mog is completely unstoppable.
I could only shake my head and take another swig from my beer to numb myself...
 

Uncle Bob

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Bikes - Eco Friendly?
« Reply #6 on: June 06, 2006, 11:31:09 am »
We own a farm in the Magoebaskloof area and i must admit, as a biker myself it's a beautifull area and a dream to ride - BUT when some dumb fekker on his scrambler/Quad comes blasting(with that loud as f&*k zorst) over private property at stupid o'clock on a sunday morning i am sorely tempted to put cables at chest hight between my trees, so you get your "elements" but i've seen guys on GS's touring around and i NEVER hear them they just enjoy the National road running through the farm and don't veer off with a 'here's a little path let's see where that goes' mentality.

It is true unfortunately that if you get them to ban quads an non street legal scramblers that street legal (generally) law abiding  eco-friendly adventurers like ourself will soon follow suite.

Unfortunately it's a case of a couple of dooses(Bakkies/trucks/quads/scramblers/ even DS bikes) making life impossible for the rest of us.
 

Oppad

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Bikes - Eco Friendly?
« Reply #7 on: June 06, 2006, 11:38:36 am »
Quote from: "LuckyStriker"
I

SANparks' position on bikes is simply the dated view that all bikers are troublemakers. I think they are worried that motorcyclist will feel tempted to race on their roads or leave the designated paths altogether.
When I phoned all the parks and some Reserves some time ago (to find out which ones are bike friendly) I found that some parks also frown on the noise bikes make.


It seems that the this outdated point of view is hopefully on its way out, in no small part (I hate to admit this) thanks to BMW and its image of the more civilized biker going places.

During my travels I have found many camping sites etc still banning bikes with notices, but as soon as they realise you are from the ds crowd and on your own, they're happy to let you through.

Of course you'll still find okes like the guy on an R6 I saw in Robertson jaaging up and down with screaming revs and without shirt or helmet in a camping area. Can you blame the management for frowning at bikes?
 

Offline droffarc

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« Reply #8 on: June 06, 2006, 12:12:40 pm »


This is exactly what I was on about when I visited Grootvadersbosch and was confronted by this sign, sigh.

While I am often guilty of
Quote
veer off with a 'here's a little path let's see where that goes' mentality.
And then it must look like a road used by other vehicles. I never venture off the track and if it is obvious that it is private or restricted property I will not enter.

Hey Jan de Sotkop Oppad, good to see you posting  :wink: How often do you update? Only goes to show, my take on Genadendal centred on the shade (it was summer) and the water. Didn't spend too much time there though in case I was called a leegle er, so i had a large lunch and was a vol le er. :D
http://droffarc.wikispaces.com
"..explore the beautiful surroundings via some of the roads less travelled. "
It is far easier to destroy than to create.
I came, I saw, I came again!
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Oppad

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Bikes - Eco Friendly?
« Reply #9 on: June 06, 2006, 12:21:07 pm »
Quote from: "droffarc"
[ How often do you update? Only goes to show, my take on Genadendal centred on the shade (it was summer) and the water. Didn't spend too much time there though in case I was called a leegle er, so i had a large lunch and was a vol le er. :D


Every day an update when I'm on the road. Bit stuck now as I could only get an appointmet for the 25 000 km service tomorrow and the Mule is a bit past that on the clock. Don't want to loose the 2yr unlimited mileage warranty.

Still have to do a proper piece on Genadendal though. Hell of an interesting place. Lekker dirt  road as well from Riviersonderend through precious little Greyton and from there to Theewaters
 

Kev

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Bikes - Eco Friendly?
« Reply #10 on: June 06, 2006, 12:28:24 pm »
Quote from: "droffarc"


This is exactly what I was on about when I visited Grootvadersbosch and was confronted by this sign, sigh.

 
It says: "No Wheelies!!". No?
 

shark_za

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Bikes - Eco Friendly?
« Reply #11 on: June 06, 2006, 12:45:21 pm »
I must admit, I bought the 2-smoke for its sound and smell, its pure hooligan offroad. I want to jaag all over the place with my rear wheel spinning and tearing up the environment, pumping clouds of sweet smelling pre mix into the atmosphere, loving every minute of that 2-stroke powerband sound.

But people do see DS bikes a little different, example at Ponto there is a bike and quad parking lot at the entrance to the camp site, no bikes and quads allowed inside, but they bypass that if your bike is your only form of transport.
BUT , the problem here is you are breaking the law if that ever gets legislated.  Because selected application of the law can never work. Its black and white. If bikes are banned, all bikes are banned.
If you say only road legal bikes, I'll get a tricked out DRZ or WR450 with indicators.
So the problem is once they have a law banning something, the fuzzy area gets bigger and soon this law bans all vehichle use in an area.

We ride vehichles that are used by others for pure recreation, and the revenue coming from us is not enough to stop a ban.

So dont support ANY ban, kwats, bikes, anything!
It would be like us saying lets ban kwats, they are a bunch of losers and no good to society, problem is the 4x4 guys think this of us.
So you gotta respect the individual rights of each user.
 

Offline droffarc

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« Reply #12 on: June 06, 2006, 12:49:53 pm »
You said it Kev, no wheelies and no dogging, but you may horse around if you smaak.
http://droffarc.wikispaces.com
"..explore the beautiful surroundings via some of the roads less travelled. "
It is far easier to destroy than to create.
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Offline KiLRoy

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« Reply #13 on: June 06, 2006, 01:28:41 pm »
Its like the new firearm law - easy to target the law-abiding citizen, much more difficult and expensive to get to the root of the problem, - the hooligan.

'Take the only tree thats left and stuff it in the hole in their culture'

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Offline Rebel

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« Reply #14 on: June 06, 2006, 01:34:31 pm »
on a recent trip through the sabie mountain forests, there was a controlled gate with HUGE signs, NO KWATS, NO CRAMBLERS...

I allowed through on my ADV without problems.

Seems like at least some people out there do know the difference between scamblers, kwats and DS bikes

yippee !

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Offline Ama ride ride

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« Reply #15 on: June 06, 2006, 01:43:24 pm »
On a tour through the Richhtersveld we wanted to enter the National Park but the peanut brained popo who is the manager just said "no bikes" I explained that we ride big DS bikes and not frekkin quads but he just went on and on and on..." Die richtersveld is 'n nasionale park en geen motorfietse word daar in toegelaat nie" :twisted:  :evil:

Not willing to listen, not willing to try to understand...

But as I read here...there are light at the end of the long dark tunnel...I hope .... :roll:
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Offline Zonkelmonk

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« Reply #16 on: June 06, 2006, 02:20:19 pm »
I was banned from the T4A forum a few months ago. So screw them!!!!!
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Offline KiLRoy

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« Reply #17 on: June 06, 2006, 02:26:53 pm »
Quote
I was banned from the T4A forum a few months ago. So screw them!!!!!


Ek dog jy's hand op die blaas met die T4A grootbaas na jou Damaraland trip?  Ons wou jou die offisiele Wilddog ambassadeur by T4A maak :lol:

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Offline Zonkelmonk

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« Reply #18 on: June 06, 2006, 02:34:57 pm »
Well, what is so amazing is that when I phoned him to find out what I did wrong, he told me that they banned him 3 times already. As soon as you talk about something other than track data, not tracks, track data, you get banned. So I decided not to join again.
Anyhow, did you see how many emails you get per day from that forum? hundreds.
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dumbell

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« Reply #19 on: June 08, 2006, 07:58:23 am »
Read an interesting post article once about riding safely.   one of the points they made was to keep an eye on types of cars in the traffic - mpv's have lots of kids and a stressed mother etc.  etc.  one of the interesting ones was: look out for 4wheel drive bakkies - they are usually driven by aggressive young men.   After reading that,  i had a look about,  and strangley enough, as a steriotype,  it seems fairly acurate.