Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register

Author Topic: Tim Noakes diet  (Read 45519 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Bernoulli

Re: Tim Noakes diet
« Reply #960 on: September 13, 2016, 12:56:35 pm »
With the question re. cholesterol and banting having been asked, I thought it appropriate to share my story. I realize it is mine and should not be presented as medical fact, but someone may benefit from the process I followed.

About myself:
I am a white, afrikaans male that carries the familial hypercholesterol gene that is well documented for its prevalence amongst the white Afrikaner and Jewish populations. I inherited it from my father and (unfortunately) passed it on to my children.
I was brought up on the low-fat diet and drank statins ever since I can remember, and in that way controlled my cholesterol numbers to within the ranges the doctors approved.

About banting
When Noakes started preaching banting, it caught my attention since
  • it highlighted a change in the accepted wisdom re the relationship between eating habits and health
  • the side effects of the statins were becoming evident and I was taking more and more pills to address those - a spiral of escalating costs that nobody could foresee the end of.

However, all the published information dealt with diabetes and banting. I struggled to find anything on cholesterol and banting. So I started my own quest.
  • I had my regular blood tests done to establish a base-line
  • I then started banting, following Noakes' guidelines diligently and repeated the blood tests after 3 months. To my delight, all the indicators improved!
  • I then stopped all the medication, carried on banting and 3 months later repeated the blood test again. My cholesterol (especially LDL) shot sky-high

I contacted Noakes for advice and he referred me to a GP who is a banter himself and uses it in his practice. Did some more tests and eventually had the following conversation with him:

Hart disease has 5 known causes : smoking, obesity, high blood pressure, being unfit and cholesterol. Of these five, only one (the cholesterol) presents in my case. Furthermore banting increased my HDL count, thereby reducing my risk factor (relationship between Trigliseride and HDL). So, even though my absolute cholesterol count is well above the accepted norm, my risk is contained.

Additionally, removing sugar and carbs from my diet, I am removing the cause of the irritation in the bloodvessels that causes the injury to them that attracts the lipoproteins to accumulate and cause obstruction.

So I am happily banting forth, without any medication with a total cholesterol count in excess of 10!

Offline T Rex

  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Bike: BMW R1200GS Adventure
    Location: Gauteng
  • Posts: 1,894
    • View Profile
Re: Tim Noakes diet
« Reply #961 on: September 18, 2016, 07:42:49 am »
T Rex you asked about Cholestrol... Cholestrol being a killer seems to be a myth after all "So it has taken the US 40 years to rehabilitate cholesterol’s reputation. The government is reportedly poised to drop official health warnings on cholesterol because the Dietary Guidelines Advisory Committee says it is no longer “considered a nutrient of concern for overconsumption” – a clumsy way of saying you can eat as much cholesterol as you like.

Better late than never you might say, and anyway, what’s a few decades between friends? Quite a lot, actually, when you consider the suffering and preventable, premature deaths of millions of people around the globe as a consequence of wrong dietary advice.


The committee’s report comes at the same time as original research by British obesity specialist Zoe Harcombe published in BMJ Open Heart. Harcombe and her team’s systematic review and meta-analysis  conclude that “evidence from randomised controlled trials did not support the introduction of dietary fat guidelines in 1977 and 1983”. (Randomised controlled trials are the gold standard of scientific research.)

In other words, official dietary fat guidelines in the US, UK,  and all other countries that have followed suit, including South Africa, are without scientific foundation." from http://www.biznews.com/health/2015/02/16/science-says-tim-noakes-is-right-on-cholesterol-lchf-and-a-whole-lot-else/


With the question re. cholesterol and banting having been asked, I thought it appropriate to share my story. I realize it is mine and should not be presented as medical fact, but someone may benefit from the process I followed.

About myself:
I am a white, afrikaans male that carries the familial hypercholesterol gene that is well documented for its prevalence amongst the white Afrikaner and Jewish populations. I inherited it from my father and (unfortunately) passed it on to my children.
I was brought up on the low-fat diet and drank statins ever since I can remember, and in that way controlled my cholesterol numbers to within the ranges the doctors approved.

About banting
When Noakes started preaching banting, it caught my attention since
  • it highlighted a change in the accepted wisdom re the relationship between eating habits and health
  • the side effects of the statins were becoming evident and I was taking more and more pills to address those - a spiral of escalating costs that nobody could foresee the end of.

However, all the published information dealt with diabetes and banting. I struggled to find anything on cholesterol and banting. So I started my own quest.
  • I had my regular blood tests done to establish a base-line
  • I then started banting, following Noakes' guidelines diligently and repeated the blood tests after 3 months. To my delight, all the indicators improved!
  • I then stopped all the medication, carried on banting and 3 months later repeated the blood test again. My cholesterol (especially LDL) shot sky-high

I contacted Noakes for advice and he referred me to a GP who is a banter himself and uses it in his practice. Did some more tests and eventually had the following conversation with him:

Hart disease has 5 known causes : smoking, obesity, high blood pressure, being unfit and cholesterol. Of these five, only one (the cholesterol) presents in my case. Furthermore banting increased my HDL count, thereby reducing my risk factor (relationship between Trigliseride and HDL). So, even though my absolute cholesterol count is well above the accepted norm, my risk is contained.

Additionally, removing sugar and carbs from my diet, I am removing the cause of the irritation in the bloodvessels that causes the injury to them that attracts the lipoproteins to accumulate and cause obstruction.

So I am happily banting forth, without any medication with a total cholesterol count in excess of 10!


Thank you for the info  and feedback ... :thumleft:
 

Offline bronzy

  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Bike: BMW R1200GS Adventure
    Location: Gauteng
  • Posts: 1,746
  • Thanked: 5 times
  • the older i get the faster i was !!!
    • View Profile
Re: Tim Noakes diet
« Reply #962 on: November 04, 2016, 03:46:09 pm »
started middle last month down 8 kilos and plenty to go
 

Offline Buff

  • Forum Whore
  • ****
  • Bike: KTM 690 Adventure
    Location: Western Cape
  • Posts: 6,291
  • Thanked: 27 times
    • View Profile
Re: Tim Noakes diet
« Reply #963 on: November 04, 2016, 03:59:12 pm »
Started a week ago, so far I've lost 7days  :o
Present bikes: BETA 300RR, KTM 690, Yamaha WR250F

If you're dumb you gotta be tough !!!
 

Offline wobble07

  • Member
  • **
  • Bike: KTM 1190 Adventure
    Location: Gauteng
  • Posts: 225
  • Thanked: 2 times
  • By grace alone........
    • View Profile
Re: Tim Noakes diet
« Reply #964 on: January 09, 2017, 11:13:20 am »
I have been following a low carb diet for two years and all going well. I used to cycle six days a week and lost lots of weight, but unfortunately muscle mass as well. I started researching diets with regards to building muscle and found that carbs are still important for muscle gains, and started introducing more "clean" carbs and eaten only around my training/gym. - Sweet potato, Rolled Oates, Basmati rice and vegetables. I stay away from sugar in any form but find it very difficult to gain muscle mass. .I try to keep my carb intake less than 40g on non training days and 120g on training days.production. Any other dogs have experience on this?
990 Adv. Sold
640 Adv.Sold
1190R
701enduro
300 xc-W
 

Offline m0lt3n

  • Ervare noob
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Bike: KTM 1190 Adventure
    Location: Northern Cape
  • Posts: 3,420
  • Thanked: 13 times
    • View Profile
Re: Tim Noakes diet
« Reply #965 on: January 09, 2017, 11:54:13 am »
I have been following a low carb diet for two years and all going well. I used to cycle six days a week and lost lots of weight, but unfortunately muscle mass as well. I started researching diets with regards to building muscle and found that carbs are still important for muscle gains, and started introducing more "clean" carbs and eaten only around my training/gym. - Sweet potato, Rolled Oates, Basmati rice and vegetables. I stay away from sugar in any form but find it very difficult to gain muscle mass. .I try to keep my carb intake less than 40g on non training days and 120g on training days.production. Any other dogs have experience on this?

you need to say how much you weigh, 40g for one can be a lot and for another nothing.
Also, where does this 40g come from, as the normal banting diet will have 30g carbs in it as trace carbs in veggies and stuff.
Then also you need to remember, you can eat as healthy as you want, banting as much as you want, it wont make a difference to your total weight. To gain muscle or weight you must be in a calorific surplus. You see currently that you are not gaining, in other words you need more calories. If you find you are tired all the time it will be good if those calories are from carbs.
You can try to gain muscle on banting (rather keto) but its not advised, banting or Noakes is not the best for gaining muscle, its good for cutting (can be argued) and very good for learning good eating habits.

It seems like you are precise with what you do, so weigh your food for a week, track EVERYTHING on something like myfitnesspall app on android, then increase calories by 500 per day, continue tracking and check if you gained after a month. If you did not gain, add another 500calories.
try to do 1.5g of protein per one lb of lean body mass. on fats vs carbs, google carb cycling, I like it.

ëxample, my diet:
1: 40g oats & 30g protein shake
2: post exercise - 30g dextrose & 45g shake
3: 200g beef & 50g brown rice and veggies
4: Lunch 200g chicken & veggies and maybe some sweet potato or leftover rice
5: half of - (3 whole eggs and 200g chicken or beef and some veggies and 30g almonds)
6: other half of nr 5
7: about 200g whatever meat and veggies and 15g of peanut butter.

that is bodybuilder 2g protein per lb LBM, all carbs around training.
On high carb days I double the carbs if not more, and cut from fats and a little from protein.

Again, you can only gain weight if you are in calorific surplus, you cant build a house without bricks.
Dooie visse gaan saam met die stroom...
 

Offline bud500

Re: Tim Noakes diet
« Reply #966 on: January 09, 2017, 12:15:31 pm »
Nice answer m0lt3n.

From my uninformed point of view it sounds like wobble's diet is a little low on fat, which sort of ties into your calorific surplus point.
May the bridges I burn light the way...
 

Offline wobble07

  • Member
  • **
  • Bike: KTM 1190 Adventure
    Location: Gauteng
  • Posts: 225
  • Thanked: 2 times
  • By grace alone........
    • View Profile
Re: Tim Noakes diet
« Reply #967 on: January 09, 2017, 01:46:30 pm »
Thanks Guys.  You  are right!, I should be more specific. I am realising building muscle on a low carb diet does not work.(at my age) I was very strict on my banting regime and kept my carb intake below 20g a day( some days less than 10g,). I increased my fat intake when on the bike but kept on shedding weight. When I started banting, I weighed 77kg, with 19% body fat. I dropped to 66kg  with a body fat of 9% within two years, and realised the more fat I ate the more I was losing! I started supplementing with MCT oils and extra protein shakes, Bcaa,s , Creatine etc.. Both my sons ( one an IBFF podium finisher and the other a WBFF Pro), advised me to increase my carb intake around training sessions. Some 14 months ago, I started cycling less (Once a week) and do a 5 day weight training programme. Cautiously I started adding carbs and got my weight  back to 76kg. my body fat is at 11%. The progress is slow and I know more carbs would do the "trick". The problem is that I realised how well banting works! I am 53 and obviously with declining testo levels am battling to increase muscle. I enjoy the science behind this all and realise banting is not for building muscle. I know endurance athletes who do well on a banting diet, however they will never have a body builders physique,.and I am learning this the hard way..
990 Adv. Sold
640 Adv.Sold
1190R
701enduro
300 xc-W
 

Offline m0lt3n

  • Ervare noob
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Bike: KTM 1190 Adventure
    Location: Northern Cape
  • Posts: 3,420
  • Thanked: 13 times
    • View Profile
Re: Tim Noakes diet
« Reply #968 on: January 09, 2017, 01:59:23 pm »
Thanks Guys.  You  are right!, I should be more specific. I am realising building muscle on a low carb diet does not work.(at my age) I was very strict on my banting regime and kept my carb intake below 20g a day( some days less than 10g,). I increased my fat intake when on the bike but kept on shedding weight. When I started banting, I weighed 77kg, with 19% body fat. I dropped to 66kg  with a body fat of 9% within two years, and realised the more fat I ate the more I was losing! I started supplementing with MCT oils and extra protein shakes, Bcaa,s , Creatine etc.. Both my sons ( one an IBFF podium finisher and the other a WBFF Pro), advised me to increase my carb intake around training sessions. Some 14 months ago, I started cycling less (Once a week) and do a 5 day weight training programme. Cautiously I started adding carbs and got my weight  back to 76kg. my body fat is at 11%. The progress is slow and I know more carbs would do the "trick". The problem is that I realised how well banting works! I am 53 and obviously with declining testo levels am battling to increase muscle. I enjoy the science behind this all and realise banting is not for building muscle. I know endurance athletes who do well on a banting diet, however they will never have a body builders physique,.and I am learning this the hard way..

Really sounds like you are dedicated and have the resources at hand to make a change to your body in whatever way you want.
Your sons will also tell you, something else to keep in mind is your muscles look flat without carbs. When you cut carbs you have a sudden weight loss, carbs retain water. This higher hydration in muscles is also healthier when training hard and heavy (and looks better) especially as one gets older.

11% bf is not to bad at all, even for a person in the prime of his life. So whatevever you are doing is working, sounds to me like you are on the right track, add a little more carbs around training maybe, and if you train twice a day you are going to need a sugar spike inbetween to replenish glycogen levels.

Again, google carb cycling. you like banting, so carb cycling (protocals differ) is basically a few low carb days and a few high carb days. so you can stick to banting, and then when you start feeling tired you do a refeed on carbs. it is also sustainable as you almost have cheat days except that they do more good than bad, you litteraly have veins popping and look more lean a few hours after a cheat meal. and I mean you can even have a mcflurry. (google dwayne johnson and cheat meals, some epic meals). weight loss will still depend on calorific surplus/deficit.
Dooie visse gaan saam met die stroom...
 

Offline wobble07

  • Member
  • **
  • Bike: KTM 1190 Adventure
    Location: Gauteng
  • Posts: 225
  • Thanked: 2 times
  • By grace alone........
    • View Profile
Re: Tim Noakes diet
« Reply #969 on: January 09, 2017, 02:26:07 pm »
Thanks m0lt.3n!

I have looked at cycling and will be adding this.

Cheers.
990 Adv. Sold
640 Adv.Sold
1190R
701enduro
300 xc-W
 

Offline Boerbok

  • Member
  • **
  • Bike: Honda CRF-1000L Africa Twin
    Location: Australia
  • Posts: 395
  • Thanked: 2 times
    • View Profile
Re: Tim Noakes diet
« Reply #970 on: February 11, 2017, 09:00:49 pm »
I've been on LCHF diet since mid 2015, and lost 20 kg in the first 5 months. 103kg to 83 kg. I'm back to 24 BMI, normal BP, and my 13 year old wedding suit fits me again.  I've hovered between 81 and 83 kg for the last year on a slightly more lenient version (still no wheat or sugar or other obvious carbs, but I have a fruit and some red wine and dark chocolate daily). My chronic hayfever and allergies have completely disappeared. Energy levels are great, and no cravings or hunger at all.

Best thing since sliced bread!

Only negative is both wifey and I have developed a servere xylitol/stevia/artificial sweetner sensitivity after a few months, so we cannot eat that at all anymore.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2017, 09:08:13 pm by Boerbok »
Hans

CURRENT: 2017 Honda CRF1000LA
SOLD: 2013 BMW F800GS - 2007 BMW G650 XChallenge - 2004 BMW R1200GS - 2002 KTM 640 Adventure - 1998 Honda XR600R
 

Offline Welsh

  • BMW R1150GSV
  • Bachelor Dog
  • *****
  • Bike: BMW R1150GS
    Location: Gauteng
  • Posts: 15,424
  • Thanked: 27 times
  • Thunder Twonk. The two legged Twat Monkey.
    • View Profile
Re: Tim Noakes diet
« Reply #971 on: February 12, 2017, 05:34:37 am »
I've been on LCHF diet since mid 2015, and lost 20 kg in the first 5 months. 103kg to 83 kg. I'm back to 24 BMI, normal BP, and my 13 year old wedding suit fits me again.  I've hovered between 81 and 83 kg for the last year on a slightly more lenient version (still no wheat or sugar or other obvious carbs, but I have a fruit and some red wine and dark chocolate daily). My chronic hayfever and allergies have completely disappeared. Energy levels are great, and no cravings or hunger at all.

Best thing since sliced bread!

Only negative is both wifey and I have developed a servere xylitol/stevia/artificial sweetner sensitivity after a few months, so we cannot eat that at all anymore.

If I may ask, how did the xylitol sensitivity show up, upset stomach or a rash?  8)
We have to start wondering...what kind of world are we going to leave Keith Richards?
 

Offline m0lt3n

  • Ervare noob
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Bike: KTM 1190 Adventure
    Location: Northern Cape
  • Posts: 3,420
  • Thanked: 13 times
    • View Profile
Re: Tim Noakes diet
« Reply #972 on: February 12, 2017, 12:18:15 pm »
and how much sweetener were you actually using?
Dooie visse gaan saam met die stroom...
 

Offline BiG DoM

  • A Grahamstown Greyhound!
  • Bachelor Dog
  • *****
  • Bike: BMW R1200GS HP2
    Location: Eastern Cape
  • Posts: 14,564
  • Thanked: 16 times
  • License Plates: GSpot EC and HUSKY EC
    • View Profile
Re: Tim Noakes diet
« Reply #973 on: February 12, 2017, 12:52:36 pm »
Wean yourself of that shyte as well - most are just as poisonous as sugar! Aspartame is the worst.
"Love is the feeling you get when you like something as much as your motorcycle" - Hunter S. Thompson

Scoots: BMW R1200GS HP2E  Husqvarna TE610E  BMW G450X  KTM 200 XCW YAMAHA BWS  BETA REV 3

 :ricky:
 

Offline Boerbok

  • Member
  • **
  • Bike: Honda CRF-1000L Africa Twin
    Location: Australia
  • Posts: 395
  • Thanked: 2 times
    • View Profile
Re: Tim Noakes diet
« Reply #974 on: February 12, 2017, 06:50:54 pm »
and how much sweetener were you actually using?

Modest amounts to be honest... We used it mostly as directed in LCHF recipies for baked foods, the odd banting dessert now and again, but we never indulged in large amounts of Xylitol/Stevia sweetened foods or drinks. At one point my wife even got a bad reaction from two pieces of Xylitol-containing chewing gum... As a result we've eliminated all artificial sweetners and sugar alcohols completely from our diet, with no more problems.

It shows up the next day as severe stomach cramps and diarrhea... I believe it is because sugar-alcohols move undigested into the bowels where it can cause problems for some people. During our research we discovered that some supposedly "pure" and natural brands of Stevia may also contain Xylitol, or its cousin Erythritol. Swear words in my house...
« Last Edit: February 12, 2017, 07:27:54 pm by Boerbok »
Hans

CURRENT: 2017 Honda CRF1000LA
SOLD: 2013 BMW F800GS - 2007 BMW G650 XChallenge - 2004 BMW R1200GS - 2002 KTM 640 Adventure - 1998 Honda XR600R
 

Offline m0lt3n

  • Ervare noob
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Bike: KTM 1190 Adventure
    Location: Northern Cape
  • Posts: 3,420
  • Thanked: 13 times
    • View Profile
Re: Tim Noakes diet
« Reply #975 on: February 13, 2017, 07:23:21 am »
and how much sweetener were you actually using?

Modest amounts to be honest... We used it mostly as directed in LCHF recipies for baked foods, the odd banting dessert now and again, but we never indulged in large amounts of Xylitol/Stevia sweetened foods or drinks. At one point my wife even got a bad reaction from two pieces of Xylitol-containing chewing gum... As a result we've eliminated all artificial sweetners and sugar alcohols completely from our diet, with no more problems.

It shows up the next day as severe stomach cramps and diarrhea... I believe it is because sugar-alcohols move undigested into the bowels where it can cause problems for some people. During our research we discovered that some supposedly "pure" and natural brands of Stevia may also contain Xylitol, or its cousin Erythritol. Swear words in my house...

Nice to know. Thanks for the reply.

I would think large amounts of sweetener will cause this intolerance, which was why I asked.
Personally I drink coffee without sugar, and absolutely no cooldrink. Then the rest of the time (in moderation) I dont worry about using sugar. ITs debatable if you win when you use sweetener vs sugar, the argument being your body is digesting an almost poison, while doing this it cant burn fat.
But there is loads of studies showing no side efects from the use of sweetener...so it stays a personal decision or, like in your case, experience
Dooie visse gaan saam met die stroom...
 

Offline bronzy

  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Bike: BMW R1200GS Adventure
    Location: Gauteng
  • Posts: 1,746
  • Thanked: 5 times
  • the older i get the faster i was !!!
    • View Profile
Re: Tim Noakes diet
« Reply #976 on: February 20, 2017, 11:43:45 am »
started middle last month down 8 kilos and plenty to go
well end of February approaching and down 20 kilos employed a personal trainer (best thing I did for this lazy bones ) good motivation when somebody watches you train  :thumleft: :thumleft:

 

Offline bud500

Re: Tim Noakes diet
« Reply #977 on: February 20, 2017, 12:49:20 pm »
started middle last month down 8 kilos and plenty to go
well end of February approaching and down 20 kilos employed a personal trainer (best thing I did for this lazy bones ) good motivation when somebody watches you train  :thumleft: :thumleft:

Well done!
After restarting my diet in the beginning of January, I have dropped 7kgs. All these kgs were due to being slapgat and on holiday.
May the bridges I burn light the way...
 

Offline m0lt3n

  • Ervare noob
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Bike: KTM 1190 Adventure
    Location: Northern Cape
  • Posts: 3,420
  • Thanked: 13 times
    • View Profile
Re: Tim Noakes diet
« Reply #978 on: February 20, 2017, 12:59:49 pm »
you guys must be careful of using a scale to rate progress, look at the mirror and rate your progress in what you see. take pics for motivation.
carbs retain water, so if you go to banting you lose up to 5kg in the first week, that is all water. One cant healthily loose more than 1.5kg of fat a week (and even that is pushing it).

most diets restrict carbs, so this is also why the old ladies do crash diets, they score big time in first week, and then expect to continue to see the same results...not happening. They then get demotivated and stop till the next crash diet.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2017, 01:01:37 pm by m0lt3n »
Dooie visse gaan saam met die stroom...
 

Offline Welsh

  • BMW R1150GSV
  • Bachelor Dog
  • *****
  • Bike: BMW R1150GS
    Location: Gauteng
  • Posts: 15,424
  • Thanked: 27 times
  • Thunder Twonk. The two legged Twat Monkey.
    • View Profile
Re: Tim Noakes diet
« Reply #979 on: February 20, 2017, 01:16:44 pm »
you guys must be careful of using a scale to rate progress, look at the mirror and rate your progress in what you see. take pics for motivation.
carbs retain water, so if you go to banting you lose up to 5kg in the first week, that is all water. One cant healthily loose more than 1.5kg of fat a week (and even that is pushing it).

most diets restrict carbs, so this is also why the old ladies do crash diets, they score big time in first week, and then expect to continue to see the same results...not happening. They then get demotivated and stop till the next crash diet.

I lost 40 kgs but over 18 months, I have been at the same weight for 8 months now, so it means that I can have a beer the occasional pasta pizza etc etc BUT stable.
We have to start wondering...what kind of world are we going to leave Keith Richards?