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Author Topic: Does the R1200LC need an AM?  (Read 3268 times)

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Offline Jacobsroodt

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Does the R1200LC need an AM?
« on: August 27, 2014, 11:07:37 am »
I have been supplying Accelerator Modules for many years, with many satisfied riders.
I essence the Accelerator Module corrects lean air/fuel mixtures prescribed by EU emission legislation. Lean mixtures can cause snatchy/sensitive throttles, surging, lack of torque, pinging and vibration. The AM optimizes the air/fuel mixture under acceleration only (by telling the ECU that it is 20° colder than ambient temperature) by making it richer. Benefits are a less sensitive throttle, more torque at low rpm, better usable rev range - especially towards the bottom end, smoother and cooler motors reducing pinging. R1200GS owners specifically reported smoother engines, more responsive throttles, "easier wheelying", reducing pinging. "I had installed the normal version of the GSA and I noticed more flexibility at low revs".
A new accelerator module has been designed specifically for the LC. Before I finalize the order for AM's for other models (R1150s, R1200s, F800s, Stens, Triumphs), a question: Can the new LC do with an Accelerator Module, or is the standard LC setup good enough?
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Offline Jacobsroodt

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Re: Does the R1200LC need an AM?
« Reply #1 on: August 27, 2014, 11:10:02 am »
Feedback from a rider:
The surging is caused by a very lean fuel mixture. Every boxer BMW I've ever owned does it. It's noticeable when you are just barely on the throttle at around 35-45 miles per hour. The bike feels like it just won't hold a steady throttle, and its on, off, on, off. Very annoying around town. No ECM reflash at the dealer is going to fix it either. It took me a few weeks to get it out of my R1150RT, (solved with a techlusion, autolite spark plugs) My 2012 RT did it as well (solved with an accelerator module). Modern engines run very lean, to help control emissions - so BMW almost has no choice but to make them this way. Some folks don't notice it at all, and some can't stand it. The fact that you have a large displacement engine with 2 giant pistons and a shaft drive with no give makes it even worse. I have found that the only fix for it is to add more fuel - 6% seems to be ideal. The accelerator module has solved the problem for me before. There's a whole argument about its effectiveness on closed / open loop operation. I've found that it works well for all riding conditions, eliminating the surge. Yes, my new GSW surges as well, and honestly I wasn't surprised. Solution, add Accelerator Module and ride on son.
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Offline SGB

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Re: Does the R1200LC need an AM?
« Reply #2 on: August 27, 2014, 08:55:15 pm »
To me, the LC is just fine as it is.  Not sure you will be able to install too many of these for now, all the bikes are still under warranty.
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Offline Lord Knormoer

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Re: Does the R1200LC need an AM?
« Reply #3 on: August 27, 2014, 09:54:55 pm »
I pretty much use the throttle in either on or off postition. No complaints yet.

Agree regarding the warranty, I will not even change the airfilter at this stage.
 

Offline TheBear

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Re: Does the R1200LC need an AM?
« Reply #4 on: August 28, 2014, 08:55:06 am »
Only had my LC for a short time and can't think it requires an AM.

The AM made a very good positive impact on my 09, so I am wondering .....
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Offline lecap

Re: Does the R1200LC need an AM?
« Reply #5 on: August 28, 2014, 09:56:39 am »
Snatch surgy bikes / causes:

The snatchy take over throttle response of many FI vehicles (and plenty of the ones with "electronic" carbs) is caused by the fuel supply being cut off completely if the throttle is fully closed and RPM is by a certain margin above idle.
The tuning usually involves modifying or disabling electrically controlled cut off valves ("electronic" carb) or modifying the fuel cut off function of the FI.

The fuel cut off modification does not have a huge impact on fuel economy since you spend relatively little time coasting along with the throttle fully closed and the "corrected" fuel supply is rather small. It does however have an effect on the emissions.

The same goes for enriching the mixture for quick throttle valve openings starting from small openings or idle. Your engine loves to do this with a rich fuel air mix (that's why plenty of carbs have accelerator pumps). Again this is not easy to do whilst complying with emission standards (which will rather require the engine to run neutral or lean).

Lesson learned: Your bike is designed to run sufficiently well and extraordinarily clean to fulfil Euro 4 or whatever ::)
If you get it tuned (by the right gizmo and the right guy) it will run extraordinarily well whilst only being sufficiently clean.

This type of tuning will very rarely have a significant effect on your fuel consumption. Nothing (or very little) changes in the range of rpm and throttle opening where you ride most of the time.

(I copied this from a reply I made on the F800 branch)

The AM  is a device which only makes the engine run a bit richer. As far as I understand it this is the simple and relatively cheap if not necessarily the best solution.
I see only a small disadvantage at medium to high rpm and throttle position half to full where the AM will make the engine run richer than necessary.
The AM might also be the less than ideal solution if the ECU does cut the fuel all together if you close the throttle fully at rpm well above idle (very likely).
Maintaining some fuel supply with the throttle rolled off will allow the engine to pick up more smoothly whilst still running lean - ish. The AM has to add a tad more fuel for the same effect.
The ideal solution in form of a modified ECU or something like a power commander will be much more expensive to purchase and to set up correctly with much more chance to cause damages too.
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Offline Jacobsroodt

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Re: Does the R1200LC need an AM?
« Reply #6 on: August 28, 2014, 03:36:50 pm »
The main computer or ECU can work in 2 modes. The first mode is called "open-loop" and the second one is called "closed-loop". In both modes, the ECU needs to have some information so it can calculate the amount of fuel that needs to be injected.
The closed-loop feature of the ECU system is rather simple. This uses a Lambda sensor in the exhaust to read whether there is an excess or lack of oxygen in the exhaust. It goes rich – lean – rich – lean, +- every 2 seconds. The ECU uses the sensor output to either lean or richen the fuel injected (that is reduce or extend the pulse width towards the injectors) with the result that the sensor's output alternates from 0.2 to 0.8 volts and back again.
Although rich – lean means "a little rich" and "a little lean" it produces a stoichiermetricly correct air/fuel ratio (approx. 14.7 to 1). This cycling of the fuel mixture to ensure the stoichiermetricly correct ratio is good for the operation of the catalytic convertor, and generally helps with fuel economy, but not much for smooth operation or "feel".

The open-loop mode is needed since the Lambda sensor is not quick enough in response when you are e.g. accelerating with your bike.
So the fuel map contains the info the control software of the ECU uses to tell the injectors how long to open, and the ignition circuit when to fire the spark plugs. P.s. The ECU itself is just a little, specialised control system computer, totally unaware that it is making a motorcycle go vroom vroom. The map is different for each bike model – capacity, state of tune, etc. The same ECU can be used, with the appropriate map, in any bike (or car, truck, boat, etc) designed to work with it.

The ACCELERATOR module™ is an answer to the "lean fuel mixtures" problems. It is an add-on product that adjust the ratio of the fuel mixture to the optimum ratio mainly during acceleration. So a richer fuel mixture helps to accelerate the engine. Also it will helps to start the bike better.

The nett result is that it creates a smoother power delivery throughout the whole rpm range (already clearly visible at much lower rpm's compared to the standard configuration, where much less an "on-off" feeling prevails). The engine picks up faster and runs smoother. A clear improvement of a faster throttle response is immediately observed. Also, the KFR (Konstant Fahr Ruckeln) on the BMW boxer engines will in most cases disappear, as this is also a result of using a too lean fuel mixture.
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Offline Jacobsroodt

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Re: Does the R1200LC need an AM?
« Reply #7 on: December 11, 2014, 11:56:54 am »
New stock Accelerator Modules just arrived! I am now the agent for Accelerator Modules in SA.

AM7 - BMW650 single, F650/ F700, F800 (all models), R1200 (all models)
AM8 - R1150 (all models)
AM9 - Yamaha Super Tenere

*New* - AM4 - BMW R1200GS/A LC.

The feedback from LC owners are the same - improved torque and power available from lower rpm.

Call me before 18 December to order - Roodt 0824405250
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Offline BennNevis

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Re: Does the R1200LC need an AM?
« Reply #8 on: December 12, 2014, 12:33:27 pm »
The LC in my opinion does not need a AM, complete and utter waste of money
 

Offline Jacobsroodt

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Re: Does the R1200LC need an AM?
« Reply #9 on: December 12, 2014, 01:06:42 pm »
Have you tried it yet? The product would not have been developed if it did not have a positive effect and improved performance.
Some have questioned KTM's decision to build a 1190 that can go 250km/h, nonetheless a new 1290 adv is arriving in 2015.
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Offline Lord Knormoer

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Does the R1200LC need an AM?
« Reply #10 on: December 12, 2014, 01:19:09 pm »
The LC in my opinion does not need a AM, complete and utter waste of money

My view too but I'll try one if Donford would fit it and confirm that it in no way affects the warranty.
 

Offline Jacobsroodt

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Re: Does the R1200LC need an AM?
« Reply #11 on: December 12, 2014, 01:43:45 pm »
Speak to Shane. He fitted an AM to his bike two years ago and was happy. Neither Atlantic nor Donford had qualms on my bikes, all fitted with AM's.
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Offline BennNevis

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Re: Does the R1200LC need an AM?
« Reply #12 on: December 12, 2014, 08:48:31 pm »
AMs were touted as the bees knees with previous boxer engines- if you installed it though is rendered your warranty useless. No real bennefit even on previous gen engines. The AM crude techology fools the engine management in thinking it is running cooler whereas a Power Comander gets fine tuned with bike spesific fueling maps and is you HAVE to resort to fiddeling with factory fuelling then this is in my opinion the only way to do it- it will however also void your warranty...
« Last Edit: December 13, 2014, 05:40:12 am by BennNevis »
 

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Re: Does the R1200LC need an AM?
« Reply #13 on: December 13, 2014, 12:13:01 pm »
I had one fitted to my previous gen 1200 gsa, did not feel a difference, and yes I took it to various cold and hot spots, (Sutherland, Swaziland and once around SA along the boarder CPT to CPT)

My LC GSA certainly will never see one of those.

BTW I gave mine to another keen dual rider and his opinion was exactly the same as mine. I am knocking the product, all I am saying it did nothing for me or the other rider.
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Offline Davew

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Re: Does the R1200LC need an AM?
« Reply #14 on: December 14, 2014, 11:46:18 am »
Every motor will have slightly different variations from ideal and hence performance, driveability, etc. the OEM set up is so that statistically the maker can claim legitimately they meet a number of standards, including emissions.

I reckon for anything other than something like a PC, which is programmed for the specific deviation from ideal that results and opinions will vary, as we have seen here. Example, my 2010 boxer was strong and never had any pinking issues, my 2007 often had pinking problems on hot days especially. Others with the 2010-on boxers found the opposite was the case.

Coming  to the need on the LC, I got one of the first LC GS bikes to be delivered in Durbs in 2013. I found the throttle just off idle to be snatchy, apart from that I was happy enough. I eventually fitted a Booster Plug, a variant of the AM theme. After fitting, the progression off idle or lean throttle was much improved and I wondered why I did not fit it earlier. I also found initial acceleration on roll on improved as well, both simply as a result of slightly richer fuelling. Cruising, no effect on fuel consumption. Outright power, no change and did not expect it to be so.

As an aside, I believe the effect of enriching the mixture is temporary during acceleration only, thereafter the computer takes its cue from the O2 sensor, so returns to factory normal.

With my brand new '15 spec GSA, the things I didn't like have improved a little. The fuel mapping is altered a bit, the flywheel is a little heavier, which I assume is the root of the improvements there. Even with the improvements out the box, the bit of snatchiness is still there. At this point I must say that thanks to a mangled wrist from an off in 2009, my fine control on wrist movement is not the best, so perhaps I notice it more than most.

I'm still running in the new boney, but I will refit the booster plug after it is.

So a first hand review of effects and usefulness and an alternate view to those against it.
I guess opinions are like a&rsehoels, everyone has one  :laughing4:
 

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Re: Does the R1200LC need an AM?
« Reply #15 on: December 14, 2014, 05:30:58 pm »
Every motor will have slightly different variations from ideal and hence performance, driveability, etc. the OEM set up is so that statistically the maker can claim legitimately they meet a number of standards, including emissions.

I reckon for anything other than something like a PC, which is programmed for the specific deviation from ideal that results and opinions will vary, as we have seen here. Example, my 2010 boxer was strong and never had any pinking issues, my 2007 often had pinking problems on hot days especially. Others with the 2010-on boxers found the opposite was the case.

Coming  to the need on the LC, I got one of the first LC GS bikes to be delivered in Durbs in 2013. I found the throttle just off idle to be snatchy, apart from that I was happy enough. I eventually fitted a Booster Plug, a variant of the AM theme. After fitting, the progression off idle or lean throttle was much improved and I wondered why I did not fit it earlier. I also found initial acceleration on roll on improved as well, both simply as a result of slightly richer fuelling. Cruising, no effect on fuel consumption. Outright power, no change and did not expect it to be so.

As an aside, I believe the effect of enriching the mixture is temporary during acceleration only, thereafter the computer takes its cue from the O2 sensor, so returns to factory normal.

With my brand new '15 spec GSA, the things I didn't like have improved a little. The fuel mapping is altered a bit, the flywheel is a little heavier, which I assume is the root of the improvements there. Even with the improvements out the box, the bit of snatchiness is still there. At this point I must say that thanks to a mangled wrist from an off in 2009, my fine control on wrist movement is not the best, so perhaps I notice it more than most.

I'm still running in the new boney, but I will refit the booster plug after it is.

So a first hand review of effects and usefulness and an alternate view to those against it.
I guess opinions are like a&rsehoels, everyone has one  :laughing4:

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Offline Jacobsroodt

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Re: Does the R1200LC need an AM?
« Reply #16 on: December 15, 2014, 09:21:42 am »
Hi Davew.

I have brought in a few AMs for the LC. A new Accelerator Module - the AM4 - has been built to fit the specific characteristics of the LC, as opposed to the AM7 for the R1200**. You are welcome to give it a try - I am looking for a guinea pig.

I had an AM7 on a 2008 F800GS and it made a considerable difference - sensitive throttle was sorted and gone was the 4000rpm buzz. My biggest gripe with the bike was lack of low rpm torque, which the AM sorted, giving more power at low rpm.

On my 2013 F800GS changes were made to mapping and throttle cam to improve the snatchy throttle. I fitted an AM at 3000km (bought it as demo) and at the time time it offset the power loss due to added weight of farkles.

I removed the AM a month ago to give to someone going to Namibia, and my initial finding was that my bike had lost it's Baaaarp!. Instead of a baaaarp a mere pfft came from the exhaust. Previously I could ride aggressively between 2000 and 4000 rpm at part throttle openings, but without the AM full throttle had to be applied more often, and rpm moved up to 5-6000 to get the same response. I refitted the AM last week and my "old" bike was back, with lots of power between 2000 and 4000. But that's on my F800GS.

Like I said I have a few AM4's available for LCs. Imho it is the most affordable performance plug and play improvement.

PM me if someone wants to give it a go.
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Offline Jacobsroodt

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Re: Does the R1200LC need an AM?
« Reply #17 on: January 20, 2015, 12:03:14 pm »
Die eerste AM4 is op 'n 2013 R1200GS LC geinstalleer. Francois is 'n petrolhead of note wat met Powercommanders op GSXRs rondgespeel het. "Ek het 'n Accelerator Module op my 2011 Adv gehad en het 'n redelike verksil gemaak. Het jy 'n Am vir 'n 2013 BMW GS1200 LC?"

En na die installasie en ry (ek het vir hom van hierdie thread vertel) die volgende terugvoer:

"Daar is wel 'n verskil. 4-5-6e gear, lae rpm as jy gas voel dit sterker. Die motor klink ook meer balanced".
« Last Edit: January 21, 2015, 08:14:53 am by Jacobsroodt »
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Offline BennNevis

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Re: Does the R1200LC need an AM?
« Reply #18 on: January 20, 2015, 05:51:01 pm »
Die eerste AM4 is op 'n 2013 R1200GS LC geinstalleer. Francois is 'n petrolhead of note wat met Powercommanders of GSXRs rondgespeel het. "Ek het 'n Accelerator Module op my 2011 Adv gehad en het 'n redelike verksil gemaak. Het jy 'n Am vir 'n 2013 BMW GS1200 LC?"

En na die installasie en ry (ek het vir hom van hierdie thread vertel) die volgende terugvoer:

"Daar is wel 'n verskil. 4-5-6e gear, lae rpm as jy gas voel dit sterker. Die motor klink ook meer balanced".

Wow,
Feel stronger and sounds more balanced!!