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Author Topic: XR 650 R or KTM 525 Exc for a Rallye Build - All Opinions Wanted  (Read 2172 times)

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Offline High 5

Hi Guys,

I have been looking into the whole Rallye Riding scene that seems to be taking off very nicely in SA, plus a mate of mine is doing the Amageza this year. With all the talk and training etc that has gone into his race, it really sounds appealing to me. So I decided to do a little research of my own as to what will be the best type of Rally bike to build, I am not as fortunate as my mate who has an ex Dakar KTM 660 to do the rally on, but I think most of my fun will be derived from actually building this bike myself.

I have narrowed down my choices to the following two bikes, I am going to highlight what I think are the pro’s and the con’s of each and would appreciate some positive input and opinions from guys who have done this type of build or who ride these types of races.  As we know real world experience from real riders is always the best advice.  Below are my two options:



KTM 525 Exc Donor Bike:

Weight:                     113 kg
Power:              48 Hp
Oil Capacity:           1.3 Litres (HT Oil Cooler Might be necessary)
Gearbox:                   6 Speed




Honda XR 650 R Donor Bike

Weight:                     131 kg
Power:              63 Hp
Oil Capacity           1.7 Litres
Gearbox:                   5 Speed

Putting the bikes side by side, I would say that the KTM has a better suspension setup and I would want to swap out the XR forks and replace them with a nice set of Showa’s off a newer CRF 450.  The KTM does not have a shush drive standard (R6,500 aftermarket option) where I believe the XR has the cush drive.  The KTM wins with the electric start, but I am also used to kickstarting a 650 thumper (left hand kick).

I know that we never build these bikes to ever profit from them, however the question must be asked as the KTM is cheaper to buy initially than the XR as the XR is a rare bike, however I have seen a KTM 530 Rallye converted bike recently on gumtree for R110k.  I am expecting to fork out between R65 – R70k on this build and wonder if I was to sell it which one would recover more of my money (opinions here most welcome)

I have many KTM’s in my garage but I still think the XR is a very special bike and with the rear tanks installed along with the big Acerbis and Desert Lizzard fairing its a one beautiful piece of equipment (just like the pic I stole of REV’s build) that would be how I want my XR to look.

I look forward to hearing the opinions of my fellow wilddogs, and thank you for reading my post.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2014, 07:50:34 am by High 5 »
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Offline BV

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Re: XR 650 R or KTM 525 Exc for a Rallye Build - All Opinions Wanted
« Reply #1 on: October 17, 2014, 08:03:06 am »
XR's like petrol. .......alot.
Ktm 250 2t ktm3002t Husqvarna 300 TPI
ktm 450 RR Husqvarna 701
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Offline LoopSoosStroop

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Re: XR 650 R or KTM 525 Exc for a Rallye Build - All Opinions Wanted
« Reply #2 on: October 17, 2014, 08:12:17 am »
Easy.

WR450.
 

Offline Gavin

Re: XR 650 R or KTM 525 Exc for a Rallye Build - All Opinions Wanted
« Reply #3 on: October 17, 2014, 08:14:45 am »
Both those bikes will be an issue for next year , I understand the max engine capacity for next year will be 450 cc
Check it out first
 

Offline sidetrack

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Re: XR 650 R or KTM 525 Exc for a Rallye Build - All Opinions Wanted
« Reply #4 on: October 17, 2014, 08:20:03 am »
Both those bikes will be an issue for next year , I understand the max engine capacity for next year will be 450 cc
Check it out first
If it's true then KTM 450, comes with 6th gear which helps a lot. Plenty of aftermarket support.
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Offline Sláinte Mhaith

Re: XR 650 R or KTM 525 Exc for a Rallye Build - All Opinions Wanted
« Reply #5 on: October 17, 2014, 08:28:30 am »
Why did you exclude the KTM690?

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Offline MaxThePanda

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Re: XR 650 R or KTM 525 Exc for a Rallye Build - All Opinions Wanted
« Reply #6 on: October 17, 2014, 08:38:27 am »
I've done a 2013 KTM 450 FI bike this year which I picked up with 17hrs for R65k. It's a sensational bike. 1.6l oil and 6th, Cush in the clutch.

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Re: XR 650 R or KTM 525 Exc for a Rallye Build - All Opinions Wanted
« Reply #7 on: October 17, 2014, 09:16:26 am »
Both those bikes will be an issue for next year , I understand the max engine capacity for next year will be 450 cc
Check it out first

FIM rules allow open class bikes, just the Dakar organisation that specifically prohibits it.  Not sure that Alex will want to eliminate 50%+ of his present entries, based on the number of return customers.
 

Offline JonW

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Re: XR 650 R or KTM 525 Exc for a Rallye Build - All Opinions Wanted
« Reply #8 on: October 17, 2014, 09:21:41 am »
Even though I love my XR and would never let it go, for your purpose I would definitely get either a KTM or Yammie 450.
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Re: XR 650 R or KTM 525 Exc for a Rallye Build - All Opinions Wanted
« Reply #9 on: October 17, 2014, 09:27:25 am »
Oh, and in terms of an opinion: XR650R.  Thinking of getting one in the place of my 690.
 

Offline adv

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Re: XR 650 R or KTM 525 Exc for a Rallye Build - All Opinions Wanted
« Reply #10 on: October 17, 2014, 09:28:15 am »
525.


XR has no 6th, neither does a WR. 

XR650R
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Offline adv

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Re: XR 650 R or KTM 525 Exc for a Rallye Build - All Opinions Wanted
« Reply #11 on: October 17, 2014, 09:30:17 am »
and then there is the suspension and brakes.

XR's dont stop. EVER.   :pot:

WR's are well rounded but have always found them lacking slightly in the power department. The are very easy to ride, but we always a tad slower than the CRF or the ATM's.

XR650R
625SMC
 

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Re: XR 650 R or KTM 525 Exc for a Rallye Build - All Opinions Wanted
« Reply #12 on: October 17, 2014, 09:56:16 am »
To me, the only requirements on a rally bike is that it must be mechanically simple, rugged/over-designed, have soft suspension for rocks and track straight on sand tracks naturally (without needing dampers to calm it).  The only thing I have against a 650R is the fuel consumption, and therefore, the need for serious tanks.  The numbers of gears are immaterial, as long as the gearing is well thought out and flexible.
 

Offline LoopSoosStroop

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Re: XR 650 R or KTM 525 Exc for a Rallye Build - All Opinions Wanted
« Reply #13 on: October 17, 2014, 09:59:17 am »
To me, the only requirements on a rally bike is that it must be mechanically simple, rugged/over-designed, have soft suspension for rocks and track straight on sand tracks naturally (without needing dampers to calm it).  The only thing I have against a 650R is the fuel consumption, and therefore, the need for serious tanks.  The numbers of gears are immaterial, as long as the gearing is well thought out and flexible.

Don't muddle this discussion with such logic.  ;D

Give the racers the XC-W's, and the leave the WR's for the finishers and privateers.
 

Offline adv

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Re: XR 650 R or KTM 525 Exc for a Rallye Build - All Opinions Wanted
« Reply #14 on: October 17, 2014, 10:05:26 am »
To me, the only requirements on a rally bike is that it must be mechanically simple, rugged/over-designed, have soft suspension for rocks and track straight on sand tracks naturally (without needing dampers to calm it).  The only thing I have against a 650R is the fuel consumption, and therefore, the need for serious tanks.  The numbers of gears are immaterial, as long as the gearing is well thought out and flexible.

Most of them will do around 10kml in racing conditions.
XR650R
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Offline Buff

Re: XR 650 R or KTM 525 Exc for a Rallye Build - All Opinions Wanted
« Reply #15 on: October 17, 2014, 10:18:25 am »
I recon the new FI KTM 500 has to been the best option for a privateer Rally bike. Great suspension, light on juice,  bomb proof motor (if cared for) and easy to farkle  :thumleft:

I had a WR450 and that bike did nothing for me... and the front suspension was a dog  :(
« Last Edit: October 17, 2014, 10:20:19 am by Buff »
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Re: XR 650 R or KTM 525 Exc for a Rallye Build - All Opinions Wanted
« Reply #16 on: October 17, 2014, 12:02:22 pm »
I recon the new FI KTM 500 has to been the best option for a privateer Rally bike. Great suspension, light on juice,  bomb proof motor (if cared for) and easy to farkle  :thumleft:

I had a WR450 and that bike did nothing for me... and the front suspension was a dog  :(

If the 450 rule becomes a reality, then yes, a KTM 500 with a 450 sticker kit.
 

Offline 2StrokeDan

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Re: XR 650 R or KTM 525 Exc for a Rallye Build - All Opinions Wanted
« Reply #17 on: October 17, 2014, 01:37:03 pm »
XR650R in a proper enduro chassis, like the 450's.

But if the rule goes to max 450cc, then Yamaha WR. Their engines is simply better and tougher.
 

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Re: XR 650 R or KTM 525 Exc for a Rallye Build - All Opinions Wanted
« Reply #18 on: October 17, 2014, 08:49:54 pm »
or just ride a 950.... if you got da balls... >:D
 

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Re: XR 650 R or KTM 525 Exc for a Rallye Build - All Opinions Wanted
« Reply #19 on: October 17, 2014, 09:48:15 pm »
XR650R in a proper enduro chassis, like the 450's.

But if the rule goes to max 450cc, then Yamaha WR. Their engines is simply better and tougher.

Maybe not - my KLX450 has done 35000km and is still keen for plenty more - If I can source some long-range tanks for it, then it's gonna be doing an Amageza next year

With a little bit more effort Kawasaki can dominate so much more than WSBK and AMA Supercross  :pot:
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