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Author Topic: BMW Motorrad Clearwater attempted rip off!!! (Updated 01 Nov)  (Read 16229 times)

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Offline Jughead

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Re: BMW Motorrad Clearwater attempted rip off!!!
« Reply #80 on: October 29, 2014, 01:21:07 pm »

I'm probably also a total rip off because I just charged R8k for servicing a Dakar with less than 20,000km on the clock. Everyone can do a service on a Dakar at home with the tools from the Builders Warehouse, R 300 in parts & google how to do it ::)


I am sure that was R8K worth of real work on the bike that was needed, and I would have had no problem paying it.  I also have no problem if I was made aware of possible problems that I as the bike owner was not aware of.


But my question to all the Jugheads, Le Caps's, and other guys in the bike repair/service business:  Would you guys have accepted the quote from the OP if this was your bike? 

I think not. 

And the reason is that you have the knowledge to know what is really necessary to repair the bike into a safe condition.  Somebody not having that knowledge and relies on the dealership mechanic will really have forked out too much in this case. 

No-ones bike need to be kept in showroom condition for it's entire life e.g. if brake discs or other wear items are still over the minimum tolerance, why replace it?

No I would not.  And that is exactly why he was given the option to come in and discuss it.  He was given the choice.  "This is what we have found on your bike that needs attention and the relevant cost.  Tell us what you want done and what not."  How is that a rip-off?

If they just went ahead and did it all without any option to discuss it, then yes, they are attempting to rip him off.
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Offline 2StrokeDan

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Re: BMW Motorrad Clearwater attempted rip off!!!
« Reply #81 on: October 29, 2014, 01:37:31 pm »
Cannot see a rip off. The guys quoted you--- you did not like or accept their quote. Its so simple-- it's a free country.



It is not a rip-off, ONLY because the bike owner did not accept the quote. Did he say yes, some parts would have been replaced in dishonesty.
Really? Can you prove that, 2SD? Or is this just another opportunity for you to besmirch BMW and/or their dealers?

oomD, why do you not go back and read the OP VERY carefully?   Many of the parts BMW has just quoted on replacement, were actually inspected and found to be fine by a
2nd mechanic.
So, why would BMW quote to replace parts if they are OK?
 

Offline 2StrokeDan

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Re: BMW Motorrad Clearwater attempted rip off!!!
« Reply #82 on: October 29, 2014, 01:40:06 pm »
Good grief 70 replies and nothing but hot air (except Jughead who speaks sense).

BMW dealer quotes for everything that's wrong, worn thrashed or otherwise needs replacement. All new BMW parts, fitted by a qualified (hopefully) mechanic, with the usual 2 year warranty on non wear items.

The back yard mechanic is asked to fix it cheaply, only replaces what's dead necessary with second hand stuff.

First version the customer walks off with a bike like new and pays R40,000

Second version the customer walks off with one issue patched with second hand parts. Pays R5k

You can't call the BMW guys a rip off unless you can PROVE that they quoted for replacement of parts which did not need replacement or charged for stuff which was not done.
Who did make the assessment that work quoted for was unnecessary? The owner? Or just another guy who thinks he's a bike mechanic because he's got a hole in his bum ???

I'm probably also a total rip off because I just charged R8k for servicing a Dakar with less than 20,000km on the clock. Everyone can do a service on a Dakar at home with the tools from the Builders Warehouse, R 300 in parts & google how to do it ::)


Why do you not give us a nice breakdown of parts and labour on that R8000 service on a sub 20000km Dakar? What made it so expensive? Tyres? Chain and sprockets?
Really, R8000 is a major service on a Audi!!! :eek7:
 

Offline OomD

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Re: BMW Motorrad Clearwater attempted rip off!!!
« Reply #83 on: October 29, 2014, 01:59:10 pm »
Cannot see a rip off. The guys quoted you--- you did not like or accept their quote. Its so simple-- it's a free country.



It is not a rip-off, ONLY because the bike owner did not accept the quote. Did he say yes, some parts would have been replaced in dishonesty.
Really? Can you prove that, 2SD? Or is this just another opportunity for you to besmirch BMW and/or their dealers?

oomD, why do you not go back and read the OP VERY carefully?   Many of the parts BMW has just quoted on replacement, were actually inspected and found to be fine by a
2nd mechanic.
So, why would BMW quote to replace parts if they are OK?
2SD, until you have inspected the parts yourself you simply cannot make that call. Who's to say the 2nd mechanic didn't say, "yeah, it might be damaged but no need to replace right now". And BMW saying, "this damage could cause issues further down the line. Rather quote on replacement and invite the client to discuss it".

You simply cannot say, and therefor your call re dishonesty by the dealer is plain and simple trolling.
 

Offline 2StrokeDan

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Re: BMW Motorrad Clearwater attempted rip off!!!
« Reply #84 on: October 29, 2014, 02:17:06 pm »
OK, I have tken a long, hard look at this scenario, and perhaps I was too quick with my assumption that this dealer was trying to rip the client off.

The fact remains that I have seen a lot of the "quote and hope the client agrees" sort of method in my time as repairman, which then turns out to be on parts not even close to replacement time?? ???
The fact that an independent mechanic Ok'd the said parts afterwards just smelled like the above scenario to me.
 

Offline 2StrokeDan

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Re: BMW Motorrad Clearwater attempted rip off!!!
« Reply #85 on: October 29, 2014, 02:19:43 pm »
Still waiting for LeCap's service breakdown. It could be interesting to see why motorcycle servicing has become so expensive.
 

Offline BFG

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Re: BMW Motorrad Clearwater attempted rip off!!!
« Reply #86 on: October 29, 2014, 02:21:08 pm »
I agree with the guys like Jughead on this one.
The work was not carried out without approval and no harm was done. from what I can piece together the dealer might actually have been doing Pieter a favor by going through the bike and quoting (in turn advising) what parts would also need to be replaced in the near future. The dealer has to cover their ass and they did this.
 

Offline Roxtar

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Re: BMW Motorrad Clearwater attempted rip off!!!
« Reply #87 on: October 29, 2014, 02:45:29 pm »
Ai togi so bly ek ry my ou XR'ki............ :biggrin:

I just personnaly think many people are either too busy or too comfortable to pick up a simple spanner or two........ What if the owner had just slung a simple spanner, removed the rear wheel and taken it say to Runner for a fix instead of BMW, WHY bmw for bearings in the first place?

I rather support specialist shops like OffRoad Cycles as I know I will get an honest opinion and the job will be done good and proper and will also advise me of alternatives where applicable.............. ;)
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Offline Mikedabike

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Re: BMW Motorrad Clearwater attempted rip off!!!
« Reply #88 on: October 29, 2014, 02:57:43 pm »
I agree with the guys like Jughead on this one.
The work was not carried out without approval and no harm was done. from what I can piece together the dealer might actually have been doing Pieter a favor by going through the bike and quoting (in turn advising) what parts would also need to be replaced in the near future. The dealer has to cover their ass and they did this.

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Offline Sylvester

Re: BMW Motorrad Clearwater attempted rip off!!!
« Reply #89 on: October 29, 2014, 02:57:50 pm »

No I would not.  And that is exactly why he was given the option to come in and discuss it.  He was given the choice.  "This is what we have found on your bike that needs attention and the relevant cost.  Tell us what you want done and what not."  How is that a rip-off?

If they just went ahead and did it all without any option to discuss it, then yes, they are attempting to rip him off.

Why should the customer tell the service mechie which items on the quote is needed or not?  The service mechie is suppose to be the expert, right?  How would somebody that is totally clueless about his bike's mechanics be able to tell if a brake disc, chain, sprockets, etc. really need replacement or if there is still some reasonable life left in those items.  He relies on [and trust] the mechanic to tell him that.

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Offline Jughead

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Re: BMW Motorrad Clearwater attempted rip off!!!
« Reply #90 on: October 29, 2014, 03:13:41 pm »

No I would not.  And that is exactly why he was given the option to come in and discuss it.  He was given the choice.  "This is what we have found on your bike that needs attention and the relevant cost.  Tell us what you want done and what not."  How is that a rip-off?

If they just went ahead and did it all without any option to discuss it, then yes, they are attempting to rip him off.

Why should the customer tell the service mechie which items on the quote is needed or not?  The service mechie is suppose to be the expert, right?  How would somebody that is totally clueless about his bike's mechanics be able to tell if a brake disc, chain, sprockets, etc. really need replacement or if there is still some reasonable life left in those items.  He relies on [and trust] the mechanic to tell him that.



Because if he didn't give the client the option, chances are good that he will be labelled as a rip-off.

Oops, sorry, I see he was labelled as a rip-off anyway.  :pot:

Sometimes it is the mechie that is aware that possibly the owner is working within a budget.  So it becomes a case of "This is what needs attention, and since you possibly have a certain budget, tell us what fit within your budget and what not."

Naturally they would indicate what items on the quote, in this case the bearings and hub, are essential.
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Offline adamktm

Re: BMW Motorrad Clearwater attempted rip off!!!
« Reply #91 on: October 29, 2014, 03:15:21 pm »
I have worked as a technician in dealers for 20 years of my life and even ended up being a service manager for the last couple of years before I left the industry and started my own business.

A lot of technicians bonus schemes work on an up sell basis. This is very wrong in my mind as the techs try sell things that don't even need replacing. They also work in hours sold so the techs will try sell a set of pads and discs when they know the vehicle will make the next service cos they get 1.2hrs to fit them when it really takes 30min(this is on a car)

I had many a time where the tech would quote and because I was qualified I would go and check first if I thought the km's were a bit low for new brakes. Most of the time they were taking the piss.

I'm not saying this is the case here. A lot of the guys will quote on what will need replacing before the vehicle is due another's service. Like chain and sprockets might have 3000km left of life, but the bike will only be back in 10000km so they quote.

Just another point of view....my 5c
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Offline popipants

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Re: BMW Motorrad Clearwater attempted rip off!!!
« Reply #92 on: October 29, 2014, 04:01:47 pm »
My bike just came back from Auto Alpina for an annual service. Its on 24K now.
And the guy wrote on the job card my chain and sprockets will not see 30K (but he's not recommending we replace them yet).
So not all dealers and mechanics are thieves.  :thumleft: :thumleft: :thumleft:

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Offline volroom

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Re: BMW Motorrad Clearwater attempted rip off!!!
« Reply #93 on: October 29, 2014, 04:08:56 pm »
My bike just came back from Auto Alpina for an annual service. Its on 24K now.
And the guy wrote on the job card my chain and sprockets will not see 30K (but he's not recommending we replace them yet).
So not all dealers and mechanics are thieves.  :thumleft: :thumleft: :thumleft:



always the case. we can never make generalisations. Makes you think about the moaning that happens often. Get yourself a dealer, mechanic, someone that won't rip you off, and stay there.
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Offline eberhard

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Re: BMW Motorrad Clearwater attempted rip off!!!
« Reply #94 on: October 29, 2014, 04:10:08 pm »
I have worked as a technician in dealers for 20 years of my life and even ended up being a service manager for the last couple of years before I left the industry and started my own business.

A lot of technicians bonus schemes work on an up sell basis. This is very wrong in my mind as the techs try sell things that don't even need replacing. They also work in hours sold so the techs will try sell a set of pads and discs when they know the vehicle will make the next service cos they get 1.2hrs to fit them when it really takes 30min(this is on a car)

I had many a time where the tech would quote and because I was qualified I would go and check first if I thought the km's were a bit low for new brakes. Most of the time they were taking the piss.

I'm not saying this is the case here. A lot of the guys will quote on what will need replacing before the vehicle is due another's service. Like chain and sprockets might have 3000km left of life, but the bike will only be back in 10000km so they quote.

Just another point of view....my 5c
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I agree. What I said earlier in this fred. In the old days the dealer/mechanic would discuss it with you, show you why he says what he says, get your opinion. Discuss alternatives and find a middle route that suits everybody. Of late the attitude is: there is the quote, you're an idiot, I am in control, take it or f@ck off.
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Offline 2StrokeDan

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Re: BMW Motorrad Clearwater attempted rip off!!!
« Reply #95 on: October 29, 2014, 04:20:41 pm »
I have worked as a technician in dealers for 20 years of my life and even ended up being a service manager for the last couple of years before I left the industry and started my own business.

A lot of technicians bonus schemes work on an up sell basis. This is very wrong in my mind as the techs try sell things that don't even need replacing. They also work in hours sold so the techs will try sell a set of pads and discs when they know the vehicle will make the next service cos they get 1.2hrs to fit them when it really takes 30min(this is on a car)

I had many a time where the tech would quote and because I was qualified I would go and check first if I thought the km's were a bit low for new brakes. Most of the time they were taking the piss.

I'm not saying this is the case here. A lot of the guys will quote on what will need replacing before the vehicle is due another's service. Like chain and sprockets might have 3000km left of life, but the bike will only be back in 10000km so they quote.

Just another point of view....my 5c

The exact scenario you describe is what immediately came to mind when I read the OP.  I could be wrong, or I could be right.
 

Offline TheBear

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Re: BMW Motorrad Clearwater attempted rip off!!!
« Reply #96 on: October 29, 2014, 06:16:59 pm »
Why should the customer tell the service mechie which items on the quote is needed or not?  The service mechie is suppose to be the expert, right?  How would somebody that is totally clueless about his bike's mechanics be able to tell if a brake disc, chain, sprockets, etc. really need replacement or if there is still some reasonable life left in those items.  He relies on [and trust] the mechanic to tell him that.



Because, if the service mechie gets it wrong, then we would read all about the terrible service the customer received here.  He would howl in indignation about them having had the rear wheel off, why did they not replace the sprocket and brake pads while at it!?  Criminals wanting to charge him for the same labour twice. A long thread would run, everyone agreeing what terrible service he received.

Basically this dealer prepared a quote and invite the customer to come and discuss with them.  Yet, they are being ripped to shred for being rip-off artists.  Screwed if they do and screwed if they don't.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2014, 06:19:40 pm by AMZ »
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Offline 2StrokeDan

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Re: BMW Motorrad Clearwater attempted rip off!!!
« Reply #97 on: October 29, 2014, 06:27:15 pm »
Why should the customer tell the service mechie which items on the quote is needed or not?  The service mechie is suppose to be the expert, right?  How would somebody that is totally clueless about his bike's mechanics be able to tell if a brake disc, chain, sprockets, etc. really need replacement or if there is still some reasonable life left in those items.  He relies on [and trust] the mechanic to tell him that.



Because, if the service mechie gets it wrong, then we would read all about the terrible service the customer received here.  He would howl in indignation about them having had the rear wheel off, why did they not replace the sprocket and brake pads while at it!?  Criminals wanting to charge him for the same labour twice. A long thread would run, everyone agreeing what terrible service he received.

Basically this dealer prepared a quote and invite the customer to come and discuss with them.  Yet, they are being ripped to shred for being rip-off artists.  Screwed if they do and screwed if they don't.

BMW dealers seem to do okay even while being so "screwed". :peepwall:
 

Offline popipants

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Re: BMW Motorrad Clearwater attempted rip off!!!
« Reply #98 on: October 29, 2014, 06:30:47 pm »
Why should the customer tell the service mechie which items on the quote is needed or not?  The service mechie is suppose to be the expert, right?  How would somebody that is totally clueless about his bike's mechanics be able to tell if a brake disc, chain, sprockets, etc. really need replacement or if there is still some reasonable life left in those items.  He relies on [and trust] the mechanic to tell him that.



Because, if the service mechie gets it wrong, then we would read all about the terrible service the customer received here.  He would howl in indignation about them having had the rear wheel off, why did they not replace the sprocket and brake pads while at it!?  Criminals wanting to charge him for the same labour twice. A long thread would run, everyone agreeing what terrible service he received.

Basically this dealer prepared a quote and invite the customer to come and discuss with them.  Yet, they are being ripped to shred for being rip-off artists.  Screwed if they do and screwed if they don't.

true!. They don't change your brake pads. If they don't last until the next service you are pissed because the idiot missed it.
But he does change it. Then you complain about being ripped.

I still like to service with the agents..even my cars. They are more likely to pickup potential problems than the "generic" dealer.


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Offline 2StrokeDan

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Re: BMW Motorrad Clearwater attempted rip off!!!
« Reply #99 on: October 29, 2014, 09:36:18 pm »
Why should the customer tell the service mechie which items on the quote is needed or not?  The service mechie is suppose to be the expert, right?  How would somebody that is totally clueless about his bike's mechanics be able to tell if a brake disc, chain, sprockets, etc. really need replacement or if there is still some reasonable life left in those items.  He relies on [and trust] the mechanic to tell him that.



Because, if the service mechie gets it wrong, then we would read all about the terrible service the customer received here.  He would howl in indignation about them having had the rear wheel off, why did they not replace the sprocket and brake pads while at it!?  Criminals wanting to charge him for the same labour twice. A long thread would run, everyone agreeing what terrible service he received.

Basically this dealer prepared a quote and invite the customer to come and discuss with them.  Yet, they are being ripped to shred for being rip-off artists.  Screwed if they do and screwed if they don't.

true!. They don't change your brake pads. If they don't last until the next service you are pissed because the idiot missed it.
But he does change it. Then you complain about being ripped.

I still like to service with the agents..even my cars. They are more likely to pickup potential problems than the "generic" dealer.




Obvious from this thread that the dealers are a LOT more likely to pick up potential problems than the "generic" guy. :imaposer: