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Offline zebra - Flying Brick

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Well-priced G450X's...
« on: January 07, 2015, 01:12:11 pm »
This is not a 'Buy and Sell' section, a section already exists for that, but this is rather alerting others to seemingly fair/good value deals that may exist out there:

I'll start: http://www.gumtree.co.za/a-motorcycles-scooters/alberton/2010-bmw-g450x/1001227229090910082566009
(I have not rung seller, no affiliation, etc)
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Offline zebra - Flying Brick

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Re: Well-priced G450X's...
« Reply #1 on: January 14, 2015, 02:22:25 pm »
another one...

http://www.gumtree.co.za/a-motorcycles-scooters/northgate/bmw-other/1001230829770910369733209

I have no affiliation/don't know the owner, etc
Chris
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Offline zebra - Flying Brick

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Re: Well-priced G450X's...
« Reply #2 on: January 23, 2015, 08:20:03 am »
Another one...

http://www.gumtree.co.za/a-motorcycles-scooters/other/2009-bmw-g450x/1001233344080910396133009

Seems like he wants R3 million, but I feel sure he MEANT R30k
(have written him to clarify)

No affiliation, just seems at a BRIEF glance to be a fairly-priced bike.
Chris
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Offline zebra - Flying Brick

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Re: Well-priced G450X's...
« Reply #3 on: February 12, 2015, 03:28:18 pm »
seems like a VERY fairly priced machine, posting it out there for anyone who may be interested.

http://centurion.olx.co.za/bmw-g450x-fuel-injected-bike-only-54h-on-clock-mint-condition-iid-783000241

If he is negotiable by a couple of R1000, then could be a good buy indeed?!

(no affiliation, just looking out for well-priced G450X's...)
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Offline Dux

Re: Well-priced G450X's...
« Reply #4 on: February 17, 2015, 08:19:27 am »
One of my clients is selling his 450 , anyone interested can contact me .
« Last Edit: February 17, 2015, 08:20:49 am by Dux »
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Offline Sláinte Mhaith

Re: Well-priced G450X's...
« Reply #5 on: February 17, 2015, 08:47:54 am »
These prices seem fairly cheap for what you get.
Why is the BMW 450 so cheap vs other 450 machines?
 

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Re: Well-priced G450X's...
« Reply #6 on: February 18, 2015, 02:31:42 pm »
These prices seem fairly cheap for what you get.
Why is the BMW 450 so cheap vs other 450 machines?
there is not that much demand for them, people think it has a Chinese engine (its quality Taiwanese, and proven itself), and the rumours of it's servicing needs were greatly exaggerated...

BMW dealerships did not really have the clientele to buy them, to be fair; after Long Way Round/Long Way Down, every man and his dog wanted a 1200GS, or at least an 800GS
Honestly, Enduro riders - think Yamaha, Honda, Husky, were not exactly visiting BMW showrooms...

The bike quickly got a bad reputation for two things:
1. being TOO innovative (read; clever?) - the bike has a lot of innovations, such as a CS sprocket that was concentric to the pivot point of the swing arm (no chain-slack thru the radius), titanium valves, a HIGH performace map and a low performance map, etc.

2. If you RACED (properly raced), the valves should be checked every 10 hours, which put a lot of people off. (High Power mode, obviously)
BMW offered a 3-year warranty, unheard of in an Enduro bike, I-F you serviced the bike every 10 hours, and could prove it.

3. But in low power mode, the feeling is you could full service the bike every 8000km IF you also change the oil frequently (say every 2000km...)

then adding an after-market oil-cooler would help double the oil volume, prolonging engine life...
then adding the oil-breather/catch-can mod would FURTHER prolong engine life
then maintaining a speed of around 110km/h sustained, with only the ODD burst up to 145km/h (max) would also prolong the engine life

it is a high-revving engine, so gives good performance, with the pay-off being frequent servicing...
but lower SUSTAINED freeway-type revs are your friend...

CCM in the UK are using the de-tuned engine/same gearbox/same oil volume, but NOT offering the power-map function, and they have a 5000 MILE service interval, which equals 8000km...

Big Dom knows WAY more than i do, this is what i picked up from him and other sources...

Cheers
Chris
« Last Edit: February 19, 2015, 11:21:02 am by zebra - Flying Brick »
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Offline Dux

Re: Well-priced G450X's...
« Reply #7 on: February 18, 2015, 06:35:05 pm »

there is not that much demand for them, people think it has a Chinese engine (its quality Taiwanese, and proven itself), and the rumours of it's servicing needs were greatly exaggerated...

BMW dealerships did not really have the clientele to buy them, to be fair; after Long Way Round/Long Way Down, every man and his dog wanted a 1200GS, or at least an 800GS
Honestly, Enduro riders - think Yamaha, Honda, Husky, were not exactly visiting BMW showrooms...

The bike quickly got a bad reputation for two things:
1. being TOO innovative (read; clever?) - the bike has a lot of innovations, such as a CS sprocket that was concentric to the pivot point of the swing arm (no chain-slack thru the radius), titanium valves, a HIGH performace map and a low performance map, etc.
The front sprocket thing was used years ago so nothing new , titanium valves also nothing new , high/low performance map is also nothing new , clutch on the end of the crank is also nothing new , but I think BMW brought the bike out with not enough testing and refinement , IMHO if they had made a ' normal ' engine they might have had more success , of course David Knight struggling to get the bike competitive definitely didn't help .

2. If you RACED (properly raced), the valves should be checked every 10 hours, which put a lot of people off. (High Power mode, obviously)
BMW offered a 3-year warranty, unheard of in an Enduro bike, I-F you serviced the bike every 10 hours, and could prove it.
10 hours is not unusual for any competition bike

3. But in low power mode, the feeling is you could full service the bike every 8000km IF you also change the oil frequently (say every 2000km...)But then again who wants low power

then adding an after-market oil-cooler would help double the oil volume, prolonging engine life...True with most enduro bikes
then adding the oil-breather/catch-can mod would FURTHER prolong engine life
then maintaining a speed of around 110km/h sustained, with only the ODD burst up to 145km/h (max) would also prolong the engine life
True with any small capacity bike

it is a high-revving engine, so gives good performance, with the pay-off being frequent servicing...
but lower SUSTAINED freeway-type revs are your friend...

CCM in the UK are using the de-tuned engine/same gearbox/same oil volume, but NOT offering the power-map function, and they have a 5000km service interval, which equals 8000km...

Big Dom knows WAY more than i do, this is what i picked up from him and other sources...
But they are not bad bikes at all , if you want to race competitively then not wonderful but for social riders it is perfect

Cheers
Chris
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Re: Well-priced G450X's...
« Reply #8 on: February 18, 2015, 09:22:07 pm »
How would low power mode give you longer service intervals ? The oil capacity stays the same, sure it's gonna rev lower bit for weekend warriors that dual sport it like ourselves how long would you be WFO anyway ? I'd rather leave it in high power mode, never know when that extra power comes in handy (navigating ruts etc.)
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Offline zebra - Flying Brick

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Re: Well-priced G450X's...
« Reply #9 on: February 19, 2015, 11:28:21 am »
How would low power mode give you longer service intervals ? The oil capacity stays the same, sure it's gonna rev lower bit for weekend warriors that dual sport it like ourselves how long would you be WFO anyway ? I'd rather leave it in high power mode, never know when that extra power comes in handy (navigating ruts etc.)
Ok, let's say you are coming off of a quarter-of-a-ton 1150, to a 11kg skinny runt of a bike, as I am; LOW power gives more than enough power as an ADVENTURE-lite-type bike, with the only negative being possibly more flame-outs...

Running in high-power map the exhaust must be swapped out for a non-cat (?) exhaust - the manufacturer supplied two exhausts for this purpose, and I tried -briefly! - the other exhaust that came with my bike and it was just stupidly noisy. This 2nd exhaust makes SHORT WORK of the right hand indicator, will destroy it in a single ride, I guess, so that's another reason, etc.

Sometimes even smallish incremental power significantly affects the service interval, in this case the lower map is a full 20-25% LESS power, but the bike is still a pleasure to ride.

Remember, not Enduro, not Cross-Country racing, but ADVENTURE!

Guess this low-power set-up suits MY type of riding, others not so!
Cheers
Chris
« Last Edit: February 19, 2015, 11:31:23 am by zebra - Flying Brick »
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Offline zebra - Flying Brick

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Re: Well-priced G450X's...
« Reply #10 on: February 19, 2015, 11:35:49 am »

there is not that much demand for them, people think it has a Chinese engine (its quality Taiwanese, and proven itself), and the rumours of it's servicing needs were greatly exaggerated...

BMW dealerships did not really have the clientele to buy them, to be fair; after Long Way Round/Long Way Down, every man and his dog wanted a 1200GS, or at least an 800GS
Honestly, Enduro riders - think Yamaha, Honda, Husky, were not exactly visiting BMW showrooms...

The bike quickly got a bad reputation for two things:
1. being TOO innovative (read; clever?) - the bike has a lot of innovations, such as a CS sprocket that was concentric to the pivot point of the swing arm (no chain-slack thru the radius), titanium valves, a HIGH performace map and a low performance map, etc.
The front sprocket thing was used years ago so nothing new , titanium valves also nothing new , high/low performance map is also nothing new , clutch on the end of the crank is also nothing new , but I think BMW brought the bike out with not enough testing and refinement , IMHO if they had made a ' normal ' engine they might have had more success , of course David Knight struggling to get the bike competitive definitely didn't help .

2. If you RACED (properly raced), the valves should be checked every 10 hours, which put a lot of people off. (High Power mode, obviously)
BMW offered a 3-year warranty, unheard of in an Enduro bike, I-F you serviced the bike every 10 hours, and could prove it.
10 hours is not unusual for any competition bike

3. But in low power mode, the feeling is you could full service the bike every 8000km IF you also change the oil frequently (say every 2000km...)But then again who wants low power

then adding an after-market oil-cooler would help double the oil volume, prolonging engine life...True with most enduro bikes
then adding the oil-breather/catch-can mod would FURTHER prolong engine life
then maintaining a speed of around 110km/h sustained, with only the ODD burst up to 145km/h (max) would also prolong the engine life
True with any small capacity bike

it is a high-revving engine, so gives good performance, with the pay-off being frequent servicing...
but lower SUSTAINED freeway-type revs are your friend...

CCM in the UK are using the de-tuned engine/same gearbox/same oil volume, but NOT offering the power-map function, and they have a 5000km service interval, which equals 8000km...

Big Dom knows WAY more than i do, this is what i picked up from him and other sources...
But they are not bad bikes at all , if you want to race competitively then not wonderful but for social riders it is perfect

Cheers
Chris
Point taken, DUX, I think there was a feeling that BMW tried ALL of these innovations in just one bike, remembering that the engine also spins backwards...

And David Knight did do very well, before he did very badly  ;)

But it's true he battled with the bike, and I think you are right about it needing more testing/refinement.
I still think -given it's limitations - it is very affordable, providing you can live with it.
Thanks for the technical insights -appreciate it  :thumleft:
Chris
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Offline wolf skaap

Re: Well-priced G450X's...
« Reply #11 on: February 22, 2015, 09:21:25 am »
Point taken, DUX, I think there was a feeling that BMW tried ALL of these innovations in just one bike, remembering that the engine also spins backwards...

And David Knight did do very well, before he did very badly  ;)
It might be this "one with everything" approach which landed it 2 spots on the top 10 worst bikes ever produced list:
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:--oK6ECcwV0J:motocrossactionmag.com/more-stuff/vintage-mx-bikes/the-worst-bikes-i-ever-raced-by-jody-weisel+&cd=3&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=za

http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=165479.0

If we were still searching for a reliable 450 or a design that is centred around mass centralization and optimum suspension, then yes, perhaps the G450X has its place by trying everything in an attempt to solve at least something.

But we aren't. We now know that the Yamaha 450 motor can withstand a direct hit from a smart bomb, that steel frames are lighter than Alu and can result in generally better all-round handling, and that KYB SSS forks are the ultimate.
Ktm, Yamaha and Honda have placed lots of focus around mass centralization with great results, whereas the severely forward tilted G450x motor is pointing in the wrong direction.

Why go search for solutions to problems we don't have, in a bike widely regarded as an all-round bad design?
« Last Edit: February 22, 2015, 09:44:44 am by wolf skaap »
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Offline Tman21

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Re: Well-priced G450X's...
« Reply #12 on: February 22, 2015, 12:01:25 pm »
Point taken, DUX, I think there was a feeling that BMW tried ALL of these innovations in just one bike, remembering that the engine also spins backwards...

And David Knight did do very well, before he did very badly  ;)
It might be this "one with everything" approach which landed it 2 spots on the top 10 worst bikes ever produced list:
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:--oK6ECcwV0J:motocrossactionmag.com/more-stuff/vintage-mx-bikes/the-worst-bikes-i-ever-raced-by-jody-weisel+&cd=3&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=za

http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=165479.0

If we were still searching for a reliable 450 or a design that is centred around mass centralization and optimum suspension, then yes, perhaps the G450X has its place by trying everything in an attempt to solve at least something.

But we aren't. We now know that the Yamaha 450 motor can withstand a direct hit from a smart bomb, that steel frames are lighter than Alu and can result in generally better all-round handling, and that KYB SSS forks are the ultimate.
Ktm, Yamaha and Honda have placed lots of focus around mass centralization with great results, whereas the severely forward tilted G450x motor is pointing in the wrong direction.

Why go search for solutions to problems we don't have, in a bike widely regarded as an all-round bad design?

The 1st article  :imaposer: :imaposer: :imaposer:
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Re: Well-priced G450X's...
« Reply #13 on: February 22, 2015, 10:06:52 pm »
Point taken, DUX, I think there was a feeling that BMW tried ALL of these innovations in just one bike, remembering that the engine also spins backwards...

And David Knight did do very well, before he did very badly  ;)
It might be this "one with everything" approach which landed it 2 spots on the top 10 worst bikes ever produced list:
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:--oK6ECcwV0J:motocrossactionmag.com/more-stuff/vintage-mx-bikes/the-worst-bikes-i-ever-raced-by-jody-weisel+&cd=3&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=za
Jody REALLY put the bike through its paces: "“Actually, I rode it 200 feet. One hundred feet out and 100 feet back. I don’t need to ride it any farther. I’ve never ridden a bike that was so wrong, in so many ways, in such a short distance. Thanks anyway.”

200 feet, priceless!
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Offline Tman21

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Re: Well-priced G450X's...
« Reply #14 on: February 22, 2015, 11:04:21 pm »
Ive ridden one! It does feel odd, you sit on top of it if you know what I mean and even though it has plenty ponies its kak to wheelie, feels like the swingarm is 2m long!  Must say only rode it for about 20min but that was enough to not buy one!
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Offline Dux

Re: Well-priced G450X's...
« Reply #15 on: February 23, 2015, 09:14:24 am »
I have ridden lots of 450's over the years including the G450X , and my theory is simple , if your are wanting to win races then go elsewhere , but if you are looking for a nice playbike then it will do that perfectly . It is not as bad as is made out at all , top riders would find its shortcomings , but the majority would never get close .
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Re: Well-priced G450X's...
« Reply #16 on: February 23, 2015, 11:46:13 am »
Chris is looking for a light, reliable rough adventure bike, and I'm sure this can do the job fine, bearing in mind it is definitely not going to be a ride-and-forget it like the 650 class.

The range of (over)reactions the G450X inspires is quite astounding. Who gives a shit? The bike is capable and does the job. Some Americans manage to make it last a very long time with little maintenance. CCM are using the same engine/gearbox combo for their light tourer, and are confident of its reliability.

And let's not forget: it's had a podium at the Roof and a win at Amageza, so it's not TOTALLY incapable as a race bike.

I've got a KTM 450, but I considered getting one of these for Amageza last year, as they are so well priced. You need to redo the front end for racing, but they're cheap so why not? And bog standard it will do just fine for what Chris has in mind.

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Re: Well-priced G450X's...
« Reply #17 on: February 23, 2015, 12:25:15 pm »
Chris is looking for a light, reliable rough adventure bike, and I'm sure this can do the job fine, bearing in mind it is definitely not going to be a ride-and-forget it like the 650 class.

The range of (over)reactions the G450X inspires is quite astounding. Who gives a shit? The bike is capable and does the job. Some Americans manage to make it last a very long time with little maintenance. CCM are using the same engine/gearbox combo for their light tourer, and are confident of its reliability.

And let's not forget: it's had a podium at the Roof and a win at Amageza, so it's not TOTALLY incapable as a race bike.

I've got a KTM 450, but I considered getting one of these for Amageza last year, as they are so well priced. You need to redo the front end for racing, but they're cheap so why not? And bog standard it will do just fine for what Chris has in mind.
Pita is the aftermarket support for it, Chris was lucky in getting the rear tank but you have to spend major moola to buy anything new for it. I'm sure most owners are very happy with them but here are far more sensible and dare i say better options out there. I get the feeling a lot buy it because of the badge .... please don't flame me !
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Re: Well-priced G450X's...
« Reply #18 on: February 23, 2015, 01:09:32 pm »
Pita is the aftermarket support for it, Chris was lucky in getting the rear tank but you have to spend major moola to buy anything new for it. I'm sure most owners are very happy with them but here are far more sensible and dare i say better options out there. I get the feeling a lot buy it because of the badge .... please don't flame me !
[/quote]

Yes, after-market support IS thin, but in some cases this worked in my favour - I got some near-cost price parts from Touratech, since the bike has been discontinued, and people off-loading parts/accessories.

I bought it because of the badge - no question there - i ride with, and am a member of, the BMW club, so it helps to stay with the 'Marque' , but I did quickly remove nearly every trace of BMW branding  ;D

And then we are fitting it out with other-brands products, such as the Husky oil - re-breather mod/catch can, etc.

But yes, a 450 Yammie could be a better, less 'admin' route!

Good points, Sidetrack, Dux and MaxThe panda!

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Offline Dux

Re: Well-priced G450X's...
« Reply #19 on: February 23, 2015, 02:18:34 pm »

I bought it because of the badge - no question there - i ride with, and am a member of, the BMW club, so it helps to stay with the 'Marque' , but I did quickly remove nearly every trace of BMW branding  ;D


Jirre Chris , you must be the ultimate BMW poser  :biggrin: :biggrin:
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